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In the final episode of When We All Get to Heaven, we catch up on what’s happened in the many years between the emergence of effective treatment for AIDS in the late ‘90s and the fall of 2025, when we recorded this episode. We linger on a moment back in June 1999, when Jim was still pastor and called on the church to remember that AIDS wasn’t over. Because—advances notwithstanding—it still isn’t over. For more on Gilbert Baker and the history of the rainbow flag see the Gilbert Baker Foundation. For more on Prep see San Francisco AIDS Foundation, What is PrEP? “The Path that Ends AIDS: 2023 UNAIDS Global Update” outlines a possible end to the AIDS epidemic. The story of Jacob’s Ladder is in the book of Genesis chapter 28, verses 10-19. The text for “This is the Day that God Has Made” is biblical with music by Leon C. Roberts. “We are Climbing Jacob’s Ladder” is a traditional hymn. “This Little Light of Mine” – text traditional, music by Penelope Gneisen “Song of the Soul” is by Cris Williamson and was sung by her at MCC San Francisco on April 24, 2000. For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/episode-10. When We All Get to Heaven is produced by Eureka Street Productions. It is co-created by Lynne Gerber, Siri Colom, and Ariana Nedelman. Our story editor is Sayre Quevedo. Our sound designer is David Herman. Our managing producer is Krissy Clark. Tim Dillinger is our consulting producer and Betsy Towner Levine is our fact-checker. We had additional story editing help from Sarah Ventre, Arwen Nicks, Allison Behringer, and Krissy Clark. For a complete list of credits, please visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/credits. This project received generous support from individual donors, the Henry Luce Foundation (www.hluce.org), the E. Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation, and California Humanities, a non-profit partner of the National Endowment for the Humanities (www.CalHum.org). Eureka Street Productions has 501c3 status through our fiscal sponsor FJC: A Foundation of Philanthropic Funds. The music for this episode is from the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco’s archive. It was performed by MCC-SF’s musicians and members with Bob Crocker and Jack Hoggatt-St.John as music directors. Additional music is by Domestic BGM. Thanks to Dr. Judy Auerbach of the University of California at San Francisco. Thanks to Sue Fulton for permission to use “This Little Light of Mine.” Thanks to Cris Williamson for permission to use “Song of the Soul.” Great thanks, as always, to the members and clergy of the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco who made this project possible. Some links to good groups: The Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco – the congregation’s current website. Metropolitan Community Churches – the denomination of which MCC San Francisco is a part. San Francisco AIDS Foundation – a place to seek information about HIV. POZ Magazine – a place to learn everything else about HIV (information included). Save AIDS Research – their recent, epic 24 hours to Save Research conference with all the latest HIV research is available on YouTube through this site. LGBTQ Religious Archives Network – the place to get lost in LGBTQ+ religious history. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Outward show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/outwardplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, host Kate Lindsay is joined by senior reporter at Bloomberg Businessweek, Amanda Mull, to talk about how the enshittification of online shopping came for Etsy. The platform used to be a thoughtful reprieve from the cheap, mass-produced products on Amazon, but now it’s plagued by a number of the same problems. With cheap junk and AI allegations abound, where can the Shein and Temu-haters go to actually find what they’re shopping for? This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Last Friday, Netflix announced that they would be acquiring Warner Bros. Discovery, a massive megamerger that would let the number one streaming service acquire the third biggest streamer (HBO Max), the entire Warner Bros. film catalog, its cable channels, and the Discovery+ streaming service. But before any shareholders could celebrate, Paramount Skydance, the megaconglomerate led by the Trump-favored Ellison family, launched a hostile takeover. Which company will emerge victorious here…will the biggest loser be the cinephile consumer? Guest: Nitish Pahwa, Slate staff writer covering business and tech. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this week’s episode, Gabfest old friends Steve, Julia, and June Thomas convene on two showbiz works of midlife retrospection and regret: the new film Jay Kelly and Stephen Sondheim’s Merrily We Roll Along. The former, directed by Noah Baumbach, stars George Clooney as the titular movie star looking back on his life while on a European train picaresque. The latter was a legendary flop for Sondheim, had a triumphant Broadway revival starring Jonathan Groff, Daniel Radcliffe, and Lindsay Mendez, and now has arrived at movie theaters. In our third segment, the panel turns to another showbiz saga full of bitter regret: the fight to acquire Warner Brothers Discovery. Joined by writer and Hollywood watcher Mark Harris, they untangle the fight between Netflix and Paramount to outbid each other for the legacy film studio—and what it all has to do with Trump and the future of movie-going itself. In an exclusive bonus episode for Slate Plus subscribers, it’s back to join the Joined in our recap discussion of Pluribus episode 7 “The Gap.” Act now, there’s still time to leave us a voicemail with your burning cultural queries for our annual call-in show by calling us at 347-201-2397. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this Money Talks: Elizabeth Spiers is joined by Tim Wu to discuss his new book, The Age of Extraction, which breaks down how we ended up with an economy dominated by Big Tech and its purely profit-seeking mindset. They’ll get into the slow erosion of optimism around the internet as a democratizing force, the state of antitrust enforcement in America, and what it might look like if we stop allowing big companies to nickel and dime the public unchecked. Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Slate staff writer Rebecca Onion wants to improve her singing voice, but she’s unsure about belting it out in public. On this episode, How To!’s Carvell Wallace introduces her to G. Phillip Shoultz III, associate director of VocalEssence, for advice on strengthening her voice, performing with confidence, and (gasp!) auditioning for a vocal group. If you liked this episode check out How To Write the Perfect Breakup Song With Ben Folds. Do you have a problem that needs solving? Send us a note at howto@slate.com or leave us a voicemail at 646-495-4001 and we might have you on the show. Subscribe for free on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. The show is produced by Rosemary Belson and Sophie Summergrad. Our technical director is Merritt Jacob and our supervising producer is Joel Meyer. Get more of How To! with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of How To! and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the How To! show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/howtoplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The British poet Raymond Antrobus was six years old when his parents and doctors realized that his ears couldn’t recognize a whole range of sounds. He was fitted with hearing aids and began a life of straddling the Deaf and hearing worlds, going to speech therapy and reading lips, learning British sign language, and attending both Deaf and hearing schools. By necessity, Raymond became an expert in communication and miscommunication, which are recurring themes in his poetry. This week, Anna talks to Raymond about his memoir The Quiet Ear: An Investigation of Missing Sound and what it was like growing up with a “panicky sensitivity to misunderstandings.” This episode was produced by Cameron Drews. Get more Death, Sex & Money with Slate Plus! Membership is 50% off, which means $59 for a whole year of ad-free listening and special episode drops across all Slate podcasts, PLUS unlimited reading on Slate.com and the Slate app, every Slate Game AND you’ll be supporting Slate’s independent journalism at a moment where independent journalism needs all the support it can get. Go to slate.com/dsmplus and use the promo code DSM50. If you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Senate Democrats will hold a vote on extending expiring Affordable Care Act tax credits to try to prevent health insurance premiums from skyrocketing for millions of Americans. That vote is basically guaranteed to fail. Where did these credits come from, and what’s likely to happen when they (almost) inevitably lapse? Guest: Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for KFF Health News and host of the podcast “What the Health?” Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hosts Alex Kirshner, Lindsay Gibbs, and Ben Lindbergh discuss last week’s bizarre and pandering World Cup draw with The Athletic’s Adam Crafton. Next, the team talks about the obviously controversial College Football playoff rankings, and finally the latest in an antitrust trial that involves NASCAR and Michael Jordan. On the bonus episode available exclusively for Slate Plus members, the gang talks about the Oklahoma City Thunder’s potentially historic rise to the top Get more Hang Up and Listen with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Hang Up and Listen and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Hang Up and Listen show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or visit slate.com/hangupplus for access wherever you listen. Read Jordan Bianchi's explainer for The Athletic on the upcoming week in the NASCAR antitrust trial. Why Notre Dame will probably be back in the College Football Playoff next year. Adam Crafton in The Athletic on FIFA's long courtship of Donald Trump: You can email us at hangup@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode: Lucy Lopez, Elizabeth Newcamp, and Zak Rosen are doing a double listener question episode! First up, a parent is OVER their current television show rotation. The ‘Rents give recommendations for shows in the eight-year-old to fifteen-year-old range that aren’t overly preachy or totally mindless. Then, they sympathize with a parent dealing with a clingy sixteen-month-old who won’t stop screaming and going full Hulk-mode every time a tiny thing goes wrong. They commiserate and give advice - including considering getting a second medical opinion and, maybe, just telling the kid that the yogurt bites are going in the bowl, end of discussion! Mentioned in the Show: Bluey Knows Best - Care and Feeding Common Sense Media Podcast production by Cheyna Roth. Video production by Micah Phillips. Join us on Facebook and email us at careandfeedingpod@slate.com to ask us new questions, tell us what you thought of today’s show, and give us ideas about what we should talk about in future episodes. You can also call our phone line: (646) 357-9318. If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get to hang out with us on the Plus Playground every week for a whole additional grab-bag of content — and you’ll get an ad-free experience across the network. And you’ll also be supporting the work we do here on Care and Feeding. Sign up now at slate.com/careplus – or try it out on Apple Podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ten years ago, the alt-right’s talking points about immigration used to be too toxic to even post on the internet under your own name. So how did they turn into something President Trump regularly fires off on social media? Guest: Zack Beauchamp, senior correspondent for Vox. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Donald Trump—or at least the tech guys who have his ear—is ready to clear the regulatory runway for A.I. but other Republicans aren’t too sure. Can he bring them around? Or will the bubble burst first? Guest: Gerrit De Vynck, tech reporter for the Washington Post. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week: Netflix has agreed to acquire Warner Bros. Discovery. Felix Salmon, Elizabeth Spiers, and Emily Peck are joined by the New York Times’ Nicholas Kulish to discuss the ricochet effect of such a massive media merger on the film and television industries. Then, Michael and Susan Dell have announced a $6.25 billion donation to the so-called “Trump accounts” for children. Nick, who has been covering the story, helps the host unpack the motive behind this unusually massive donation and what these accounts represent to various parties. And finally, The Guardian has revealed wide-spread and insidious consumer-fraud at Dollar General and Family Dollar. The hosts and Nick dive into how the massive dollar store chains are ripping off their already financially stretched customers. In the Slate Plus episode: Is Zootopia the future of cinema? Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, host Kate Lindsay is joined by culture writer Mikala Jamison to talk about the rise in online concern about celebrities’ bodies. Mikala writes the newsletter Body Type, and her forthcoming book The Forever Project details her recovery from an eating disorder. Following the premiere of movies like Wicked: For Good, fan concern and speculation about celebrity bodies has culminated in a larger discussion about the return of “this is in.” But did “thin” really ever go away? And what is the right way, if any, to talk about it? This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

While the Secretary of Defense pursues lawless boat strikes with a laser focus on maximum trolling, the Supreme Court is working to undermine voting rights with a laser focus on maximum support for Republicans. In this week’s episode of Amicus, Dahlia Lithwick and co-host Mark Joseph Stern discuss the news that Trump’s extra-constitutional attempt to restrict birthright citizenship is heading back to the Supreme Court. They also discuss Thursday’s shadow docket decision supercharging racial gerrymandering as well as next week’s campaign finance case that promises to unleash even more dark money in the midterms. Next, Dahlia’s joined by Malcolm Nance, former naval intelligence officer, author and host of the Black Man Spy podcast to talk through the current administration’s riding roughshod over established military law, and the very nasty history of bombing shipwrecks. Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A tech mogul who made bank from Paypal with his Stanford buddies and has endeared himself to right-wing politicians and enriched himself the same way? No not him; this one’s South African..no, not him either. Guest: Ryan Mac, reporter for the New York Times. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss why the killing of survivors in a US military strike on an alleged drug boat is so dangerous for Pete Hegseth and the Trump administration, what the results of this week’s special election in Tennessee could portend for the upcoming midterms, and the adoption of self-driving cars as a public health measure. For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss the complexities of free speech, academic freedom, and consequences in the controversial case of a University of Oklahoma instructor who was put on leave after complaints from a student who flunked a gender essay. In the latest Gabfest Reads, John talks with journalist and author Andrew Ross Sorkin about his new book, 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History and How It Shattered a Nation — the story of speculation, debt, and the human drives that fueled the Wall Street crash that changed everything. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Nina Porzucki Research by Emily Ditto You can find the full Political Gabfest show pages here. Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee will be meeting to vote on recommendations for childhood vaccinations. But under RFK Jr.’s leadership, this committee looks much different now than it did a year ago.How is the impact from the HHS secretary being seen across America today? Guest: Dr. Paul Offit, Director of the Vaccine Education Center and professor of pediatrics in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode: Lucy Lopez, Elizabeth Newcamp, and Zak Rosen take a listener question about how to be there for a fellow parent who is going through a hard time. The listener’s friend’s kid is acting out and causing lots of stress. They toss around ideas about ways friends have shown up for them, ideas for support without smothering, and more. But first, they share their latest Triumphs and Fails. Lucy survives a trip to the wilderness with her family, Elizabeth survives an international trip with the kids as the only parent (and gets praise for their behavior!), and Zak is clearly raising a cool kid. Podcast production by Cheyna Roth. Join us on Facebook and email us at careandfeedingpod@slate.com to ask us new questions, tell us what you thought of today’s show, and give us ideas about what we should talk about in future episodes. You can also call our phone line: (646) 357-9318. If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get to hang out with us on the Plus Playground every week for a whole additional grab-bag of content — and you’ll get an ad-free experience across the network. And you’ll also be supporting the work we do here on Care and Feeding. Sign up now at slate.com/careplus – or try it out on Apple Podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Some presidents use their pardons for large groups of people. Some presidents use them for personal reasons. If you were to sum up Donald Trump’s use of the power of the pardon, the only word for it is “brazen.” Guest: Benjamin Wallace-Wells is a staff writer at The New Yorker. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices