ABA Law Student Podcast

Many young law students begin their studies with high hopes of generating change by becoming a lawyer and advocate, but what does this lofty dream look like in the real world? Leah Haberman talks with Professor Dorothy Roberts about her career as a lawyer, professor, author, and activist. Professor Roberts shares how her unique skills led her to leverage her curiosity and passions to become an expert on racial interconnections and tensions in many legal issues, particularly those involving reproductive injustices and child welfare. She shares many tips for law students on how to bring focus to their strengths and interests, embrace collaboration, and make small but meaningful changes in the world; one day at a time. Dorothy Roberts is the 14th Penn Integrates Knowledge Professor, the George A. Weiss University Professor of Law & Sociology, and the Raymond Pace & Sadie Tanner Mossell Alexander Professor of Civil Rights at University of Pennsylvania.

Many law students begin their studies thinking they have their legal ambitions all mapped out, only to realize later that their perfect plan is no longer what they want. Having this type of identity crisis in law school isn’t a bad thing, and if it happens to you, don’t panic! Law school and your early legal career should be a time for exploration and change. Chay Rodriguez talks with attorney Katie Winchenbach about her personal experiences and the strategies, resources, and connections that helped her pivot to new opportunities both as a student and a young lawyer. Katie Winchenbach is a corporate attorney at Motorola Solutions and program director for Ms. JD, a national nonprofit that supports aspiring and early-career women attorneys.

Becoming a specialist in a niche area of the law is often touted as the most effective path for attorneys, but there’s definitely much to be said for having a more dynamic approach to your future legal career. As an attorney, you may end up with a client whose needs stretch across multiple areas of the law, and being willing to learn and develop new areas of expertise are essential in those situations. Leah Haberman interviews Michael Quinn about his experiences representing clients in the fight against the Sackler Family and Purdue Pharma—which both bore heavy responsibility for the opioid crisis. Michael, an arts lawyer, discusses his involvement in this highly publicized case and how his flexible approach to his own legal practice led him to navigate multiple areas of the law to fight for his clients. Michael Quinn is a partner at Eisenberg & Baum, LLP, where he heads the firm’s Arts & Culture Practice Group.

Labor issues captured the headlines throughout much of 2023, with over 400 strikes involving half a million workers. From a legal perspective, there’s a lot to unpack about negotiation tactics, advances in labor and employment law, impacts on basic human rights, and effective ways to fight for fair outcomes in legal matters. In this edition of the ABA Law Student Podcast, former professional soccer player and now attorney Meghann Burke talks about her experiences while leading the National Women’s Soccer League Players Association to its first collective bargaining agreement in 2022. Looking at both employment and a wider range of advocacy issues, this episode explores the value of creative negotiation skills in the life of a lawyer. Meghann Burke is an attorney and executive director of the National Women’s Soccer League Players Association.

There’s no way to take a pass on tech competence. In your future as a lawyer, you have an ethical responsibility to understand and use technology in your practice, and today’s fastest growing tech is AI. Whether you’re an AI fan or perhaps a little scared of a robot takeover, this podcast will help you understand many of the latest AI trends and their impacts in the legal world. Leah Haberman interviews Professor Orly Lobel, author of “The Equality Machine: Harnessing Tomorrow’s Technologies for a Brighter, More Inclusive Future”, to discuss AI, algorithms, current tools, and how to make sense of them all. There are and always will be positive and negative implications for AI uses, and our goal should be to use it for good. Orly Lobel is the Warren Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of San Diego, the founding director of the Center for Employment and Labor Policy (CELP), and the award-winning author of several books and numerous articles.

After a criminal pays their debt to society, should they continue to suffer additional consequences for their crime for the rest of their life? Ricky Panayoty developed a deep passion for the law while serving a 10-year sentence for robbery, but really didn’t know whether he could apply to college, let alone law school, after being released. Law students come from a multitude of backgrounds, but justice-impacted individuals like Ricky often have many more obstacles to overcome. Faculty host Todd Berger talks with host Chay Rodriguez about her interview with Ricky discussing his incarceration, the experiences that fueled his interest in law, and his circuitous path to law school. They also highlight the perspective a justice-impacted individual brings to the legal profession and examine policies and procedures that affect the future prospects of these individuals. Ricky Panayoty is a Juris Doctor candidate at Atlanta's John Marshall Law School and worked as a summer intern at Bryant Green & Associates.

As law students learn to be lawyers, some feel that they lose themselves—that their prior creative, dynamic individuality is slowly replaced by an unrecognizable law school robot. If you’ve experienced this disorienting feeling, you’re not alone. Host Leah Haberman is joined by Professor Michelle Falkoff of Northwestern University to talk about how to hang on to your creativity in law school. In their conversation, they examine the art of communication through legal writing and how originality and personal authenticity help you become an even better lawyer. This episode of the ABA Law Student Podcast is full of new voices! Faculty host Professor Todd Berger is joined by student hosts Leah Haberman and Chay Rodriguez for a new season of episodes focusing on topics important to today’s law students.

Mark Geragos made a name for himself successfully representing Susan McDougal, President Bill Clinton’s erstwhile business partner, following her conviction related to the 1990s Whitewater controversy. Since then, he has represented many prominent figures—from politicians to Hollywood elites to pro athletes and more—and has a multitude of fascinating stories to tell. DeMario Thornton talks with Mark about his path through law school, his career choices, and much more. Mark Geragos is Principal with the internationally known trial law firm of Geragos & Geragos where he has represented some of the most prominent figures in the world.

The July bar exam is right around the corner, and if you’re like most recent law school grads, you’ve probably got some pre-test jitters. DeMario Thornton welcomes young lawyer Taylor DiChello to pick her brain on strategies for successful bar prep and test-taking. Taylor discusses her approach to studying, the usefulness of BARBRI courses, the structure of the bar exam, and much more. Tune in for practical tips and reassurances to calm your nerves as the exam approaches. Taylor DiChello is a corporate associate at Gunderson Dettmer where she specializes in the representation of emerging growth companies throughout their life cycles.

Do you have a particular interest outside of becoming a lawyer? With how incredibly broad the law is, a niche practice area might just align with your passions. For Arlan Lewis, his experience in architecture and some serendipitous happenings in law school led him to a fulfilling career in construction law. DeMario Thornton talks with Arlan about his career path, the nuances of construction law, and his top advice for today’s law students, no matter what area of the law they choose to pursue. Arlan D. Lewis is a partner at Blueprint Construction Counsel, LLP.

Law school, bar prep, and the legal profession in general can be hard on mental health, but there is help through Lawyer Assistance Programs that even law students can access. DeMario Thornton talks with Molly Ranns about the services and support available to help law students and professionals cope with stress, anxiety, depression, and substance abuse. Molly also outlines what signs and symptoms law students should be aware of to help them assess their own mental well-being. Molly Ranns is program director for the Lawyers and Judges Assistance Program at the State Bar of Michigan and a co-host of the State Bar of Michigan’s On Balance Podcast. Find out more about the Michigan Bar’s program: Lawyers & Judges Assistance Program - State Bar of Michigan contactljap@michbar.com Or, search for your state’s LAP program here: ABA Directory of Lawyer Assistance Programs Mentioned in this episode: The Prevalence of Substance Abuse and Other Mental Health Concerns Among American Attorneys Suffering in Silence: The Survey of Law Student Well-Being and the Reluctance of Law Students to Seek Help for Substance Use and Mental Health Concerns

A lot of us started law school thinking we knew exactly what we would do with a law degree. So what happens when a surprising, but very different opportunity comes along? Jerome Crawford didn’t set out to become a cannabis attorney, but he’s thankful for the goals and pursuits that made him into a good lawyer and led him to the career he enjoys today. DeMario Thornton talks with Jerome about both his law school and professional experiences and why law students should never feel guilty about pivoting to new and different opportunities in law. Jerome Crawford is Chief Legal Officer at Pleasantrees Cannabis Company.

Law school is tough, but you’re not alone! DeMario Thornton welcomes fellow law student Sarah Atkinson to talk through the highs and lows of law school. They share their struggles and discuss the ways they have navigated the stresses and uncertainties of legal education, summer internships, job-hunting, bar prep, and more. Sarah Atkinson is a 3L at the University of Alabama School of Law

DeMario Thornton welcomes Professor Deleso A. Alford to discuss her work at the intersection of legal and medical education, where her scholarship helps students gain a broader understanding of how race, gender, and classism have shaped these two fields of study. Professor Alford shares highlights from her studies of Henrietta Lacks, critical race theory, cultural competency, and other histories (or HER stories) of black women and their experiences in our healthcare systems. Professor Deleso A. Alford is the Rachel Emanuel Endowed Professor at Southern University Law Center.

In the midst of a nightmarish judicial clerkship, Aliza Shatzman found that there was almost no protection for her, a lowly clerk, suffering harassment at the hands of a seemingly all-powerful judge. This experience and its aftermath spurred Aliza on to create The Legal Accountability Project. Host DeMario Thornton talks with Aliza about how the Project’s research and partnerships are bringing much-needed transparency to the judicial clerkship experience to create more resources and ensure better outcomes for future clerks. Aliza Shatzman is the president and co-founder of the Legal Accountability Project.

What can you expect when trying for a spot at one of the much coveted summer associateships? DeMario Thornton talks with Craig Savitzky of Law360 about the insights gleaned from the 2022 Summer Associates Survey. This two-part survey looks at law students’ approaches to the application and interview processes and then revisits students after their associateships to assess their program experiences. Craig Savitzky is a senior data analyst at Law360.

Minority lawyers operating in white-dominated spaces face unique challenges as they navigate careers in the legal profession. As negative stereotypes assault them from without, self-doubt and imposter syndrome can develop within. DeMario Thornton welcomes Michael Nava, a gay, Mexican-American author and attorney, to gain insights from his remarkable career and hear his thoughts on overcoming discrimination and supporting diversity in the legal world. Michael Nava is the author of an acclaimed series of seven crime novels featuring gay, Latino criminal defense lawyer Henry Rios. Michael spent many years working as an attorney in California and retired from the law in July 2016.

Returning guest Omarosa Newman joins Demario Thornton to go into deeper detail about her educational journey through multiple Historically Black Colleges and Universities and why she chose to attend Southern University–also an HBCU–for law school. Since their inception, HBCUs have focused on educating brilliant young minds. Tune in to learn more about the unique experience students find at these institutions. Check out Omarosa’s book, Unhinged: An Insider's Account of the Trump White House. Omarosa Newman is a reality tv star, a communications professional, and a 1L at Southern University Law Center.

You know her from “The Apprentice,” “Big Brother,” Trump’s White House, and more; and now she’s in the middle of law school just like you! Brand-new Law Student Podcast host DeMario Thornton chats with Omarosa about her unusual path to law school, her reality tv experiences, the confidence she feels as a non-traditional student with plenty of life experience to draw from, and what she hopes to do with her law degree. Omarosa Newman is a reality tv star, a communications professional, and a 1L at Southern University Law Center.

Intellectual property law touches so many corners of law in general, and those interested in pursuing it may take any number of paths in legal practice. To explore the vast world of IP law, Meg Steenburgh welcomes Howard Leib to learn from his exciting career in IP and entertainment law. They dig into the nuances of trademarks, discuss a variety of newsworthy IP matters, and Howard shares insights on how to work toward your own IP law goals. Howard Leib is an entertainment and IP attorney, a law professor, a political and community activist, and hosts a comedy radio show on WRFI-FM in Ithaca, NY.