Bleeding Metal Podcast

Lindsay Schoolcraft is back on the podcast! Ten years after our first talk, Lindsay joins Kiki and Pia to talk about how important it is for artists to take breaks and for fans to support this. With so many of our favorite Metal acts touring non-stop after the pandemic and some of them getting backlash from fans after canceling gigs due to illness - it seems we really need to talk about this. Listen to the episode to hear about Lindsay's experience after burnout, her new "corporate job" and how we will hear more from her and her music soon. Episode recorded on July 27th, 2023. 00:06:58 Catching up with Lindsay about her career 00:09:49 Artist burnout 00:41:39 Lindsay's new job and projects Show notes: Metal & High Heels interview with Lindsay Schoolcraft at Metal Female Voices Fest in 2013 German Metal Hammer reported about our interview with Alissa White Gluz at Tuska Forum by Bleeding Metal Lindsay Schoolcraft on Patreon Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Pia. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

We're back from our short break with a new season and to start it we're catching you all up on what we've been doing these past few months. Recorded on November 3rd, 2023. Show notes: Kiki's Twitch channelWomen In Games channelmusic video for THE MONISTIC's song 'Shell Shock' Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Bonus episode edited by Kiki. Subscribe now to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Join the conversation in the podcast channel in Kiki's Discord server. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

The last session of the TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL at this year's Tuska Festival in Helsinki was a moving interview with Marko Hietala hosted by Kiki. What was initially supposed to be a talk about his experience in the music business turned out to be an intimate conversation about the artist's personal growth throughout his life - including recent improvements in his mental health. We had a very participative audience and their questions and comments are included in the episode. Listen to the live recorded interview as well as Pia and Kiki's thoughts on the conversation. 02:27 Live recording of the interview with Marko Hietala 35:40 Pia and Kiki comment on the interview Show notes: podcast episode about copyright with Sigfried Samer TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL interview recorded by Perttu Lähdesmäki on July 1st at Tuska Festival and edited by Savvier Nelson - commentary recorded on August 1st, 2023, and edited by Pia and Kiki. Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

The official language of this episode is Finglish - a gift from Bleeding Metal with love to our Finnish-speaking audience. It's a very entertaining episode and we hope you all enjoy it. The second day of the TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL at this year's Tuska Festival in Helsinki started with Kiki showing off her Finnish skills - which didn't take her too far, but at least the audience applauded the effort. MC Raaka Pee and Shag-U from TURMION KÄTILÖT shared anecdotes from their 20-year band career and answered some interesting questions from the audience. 01:49 Live recording of the interview with TURMION KÄTILÖT 44:23 Kiki & Pia’s commentary Show notes: TURMION KÄTILÖT's websiteepisode about TUSKA UTOPIA TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL interview recorded by Perttu Lähdesmäki on July 1st at Tuska Festival and edited by Savvier Nelson - commentary recorded on September 5th, 2023, and edited by Kiki. Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

The opening event of the TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL, which was hosted by Kiki at this year's Tuska Festival in Helsinki, was this interactive workshop about Artificial Intelligence and music. The goal of the session was to implement the technology live and let generative AI create a song with all the necessary elements: music, lyrics, and cover art. We sat down with Osmo and Nico from GALVANIZER and Saku and Sampo from SLASH THE SMILE - with the support of Savvier Nelson in charge of the software - and discussed how AI is already affecting the music industry and how it can develop into a useful tool or a threat to creative professionals. In this episode, you can listen to the live recorded panel and Pia and Kiki's thoughts on this topic that is being talked about everywhere this year. 05:10 Live recording of the panel 43:54 Kiki & Pia’s commentary Show notes: AI-created mashup "Ice Ice Matrix"Artificial Intelligence lyrics creation tool These Lyrics Do Not Exist"Metal Breakdown Generator" DJENEU-commission vice president's statement about labeling AI content against disinformation on social mediaGrimes’ tweet about using their voice through AI tools TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL interview recorded by Perttu Lähdesmäki on June 30th at Tuska Festival and edited by Savvier Nelson - commentary recorded on August 21st, 2023, and edited by Pia and Kiki. Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

TRIGGER WARNING: the topic of suicide comes up during this episode several times. If you or someone you know is struggling, reach out for help around suicidal thoughts. During this year's Tuska Festival in Helsinki, Kiki hosted the TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL and started moving conversations with some of the performing artists. LOST SOCIETY-vocalist Samy Elbanna talked to Kiki and the forum audience about his experiences during dark times and how therapy and music helped him get out of them. In this episode, you can listen to the live recorded interview as well as Pia and Kiki's thoughts on this topic that is near and dear to both our hearts. 02:22 Live recording of the interview with Samy Elbanna 39:13 Pia and Kiki comment on the interview Show notes: LOST SOCIETY websitemusic video for LOST SOCIETY's song '112'"Why metalheads are happier people" - DW History and Culture's video TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL interview recorded by Perttu Lähdesmäki on June 30th at Tuska Festival and edited by Savvier Nelson - commentary recorded on July 25th, 2023, and edited by Pia and Kiki. Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

During this year's Tuska Festival in Helsinki, Kiki hosted a forum and had captivating conversations with some of the performing artists. On this episode of the podcast, we present to you the recording of Kiki's interview with animal rights activist and ARCH ENEMY-vocalist Alissa White-Gluz. Pia and Kiki then comment on the conversation and how each and every one of us can be an activist by being conscious of our choices and behaviors. 01:58 Live recording of the interview with Alissa White-Gluz 18:01 Pia and Kiki comment on the interview Show notes: Alissa White Gluz transforms into a Mermaid for PETA-campaign against ghost netsThe Little Mermaid's 'Part Of Your World' cover by Punk Rock Factory ft. Alissa White-GluzDEVIL MAY CARE's music video for the song 'Into The Abyss' in cooperation with Sea ShepherdSeaspiracy documentarySea Shepherd websiteKarün Eyewear TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL interview recorded by Perttu Lähdesmäki on June 30th, 2023 at Tuska Festival and edited by Savvier Nelson - commentary recorded on July 18th, 2023. Episode edited by Kiki. Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

Since Pia was not able to attend Tuska Festival 2023, she asks Kiki all about the festival weekend, including but not limited to the Tuska Forum by Bleeding Metal, which Kiki hosted at the event in Helsinki. Tune in for an in-house interview and a preview of the upcoming episodes that were recorded live at Tuska 2023! Episode recorded on July 6th, 2023. Show notes: article in the Helsinki Times mentions the TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Kiki. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

In an extraordinary episode, Kiki and Pia recount their experiences at different music festivals, especially in the ten years of working together on Metal & High Heels turned the Bleeding Metal Podcast. But before we go down memory lane, we must address two pieces of news from the Metal scene that are important to us. We also have a special announcement. We are bringing to life the TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL! With the overarching theme of Young Voices & The Future of Metal, the forum will feature an interactive panel about Artificial Intelligence in Metal as well as interview guests like Alissa White-Gluz, TURMION KÄTILÖT, Marko Hietala, and Samy Elbanna. The select audience of TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL will surely be entertained and informed, as an addition to the fantastic Tuska Festival 2023 line-up - one of the youngest in the history of Finland’s biggest Metal festival. And you, our dear listeners, will get to listen to the interviews later on, right here on the feed of the Bleeding Metal Podcast. 01:53 Our statement about the allegations of sexual abuse against the singer of that German industrial Metal band 05:29 Our condolences to the family and friends of Dirk Lehberger, an esteemed member of the Metal community 07:54 Our experiences in (Metal) Music Festivals 43:30 The sideshow of Tuska Festival 2023 features the TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL - whoop, whoop! Show notes: Amadeu Antonio Foundation's fundraising campaign to legally support survivors speaking against Till Lindemanninterviews from Tuska Festival 2017 as Metal & High Heelsinterviews from Tuska Festival 2018 as Metal & High HeelsKikiQuitofest on WikipediaGeneral information about Tuska Festival 2023TUSKA FORUM by BLEEDING METAL Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Kiki and Savvier Nelson. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

We like our topics deep and our episodes dark. Initially, Kiki and Pia planned to talk to Sue from THE HELLFREAKS about mixing styles and genres, because that happens on the Hungarian band's new album "Pitch Black Sunset". Ultimately, our whole episode became a mix of topics and we didn't skip a deep one: War, death, COVID, politics, fears, money, feminism,... You know, our favorite topics! By the end, we also talk about cats to lighten up the mood before saying goodbye! Episode recorded on May 25th, 2023. 00:00:00 THE HELLFREAKS and their new album "Pitch Black Sunset" 00:21:59 War, covid, personal fears 00:27:43 Death 00:40:16 Politics 00:45:01 Metal and punk scene in Hungary 00:55:25 Vocal styles 01:06:55 Cats Show notes: THE HELLFREAKS⁠Störfaktor Festival⁠ Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Pia. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

Kiki and Pia welcome Charlie from AS EVERYTHING UNFOLDS back on the podcast! We catch up about how much the vocalist has personally grown with the band in the past few years and how her writing shifted focus from more private, Mental Health-related topics to more abstract, creative themes in the band's new album "Ultraviolet". Personal growth and combining creative passions are big topics in this conversation, as well as on AEU's new record, which we now see in a different light. After the recording of the episode, Kiki was able to catch the band live and witness AS EVERYTHING UNFOLDS having fun on stage with a confident Charlie delivering great vocals and getting the audience excited. It was a great show despite its short duration - highly recommend checking out the band's headline dates! Episode recorded on May 1st, 2023 - intro recorded after the band's gig supporting CALLEJON in Karlsruhe on May 20th, 2023. 01:48 Charlie Rolfe introduces herself 05:30 Charlie on her “famous” quote about wearing dresses on stage 08:46 Mental Health in AEU’s debut album’s lyrics 12:58 Photography in the lyrics of “Ultraviolet” 21:59 Performing older songs after outgrowing them thematically 29:21 Challenges for the new album 31:35 Owen leaving AS EVERYTHING UNFOLDS 41:29 How Charlie takes care of her Mental Health nowadays 43:08 About video games and then music Show notes: podcast episode with AS EVERYTHING UNFOLDS-vocalist Charlie Rolfebonus episode about AS EVERYTHING UNFOLDS' latest album "Ultraviolet"CharlieLAZY GIRL CLUB - Funky Slow Fashion in sizes 6-30AS EVERYTHING UNFOLDS will go on a UK-tour with ELECTRIC CALLBOY this autumn Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Kiki. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes, and follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

Hungarian band THE HELLFREAKS has just caught our attention with their fifth and latest album "Pitch Black Sunset", which has been out since April 14th, 2023. It's quite the short album, which makes this bonus episode even shorter. Recorded on May 8th, 2023. Show notes: THE HELLFREAKS' website Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Bonus episode edited by Kiki. Subscribe now to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Join the conversation on the podcast channel in Kiki's Discord server. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

Have you ever wondered why certain genres are more widespread in certain countries? Or why they are more successful there? Well, we have a brainstorming session for you! This is what happens when not one but two artist interviews get postponed - Pia and Kiki get to talk about topics that have been on their minds without researching about them beforehand. Recorded on April 14th, 2023. 03:40 Recap of the This is Pop! episode “Stockholm Syndrome” and disclaimer 24:32 Our (not fact-based) reflections on the Geography of Music 45:18 Female Fronted Metal returns Show notes: This is Pop! episode “Stockholm Syndrome”IN FLAMES-vocalist Andres Fridén speaks about Swedish Metalheads turned Pop-producers in an interviewinterview with Metal researcher Toni-Matti Karjalainen at Tuska Festival 2017Metalbirb and RELIQA'S Monique Pym about Female Fronted Metalinterview compilation about Female Fronted Metal Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Kiki. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

"Ultraviolet", the new album from AS EVERYTHING UNFOLDS resembles a photograph - the capture of a moment in time. The young British band work with the concept of photography in this album, which they describe as "an open work on the thoughts and feelings surrounding us at the time. The anger, the frustration, the progress - everything is on show and nothing is hidden". As fitting as this description is, we liked the lyrical depth that their previous album had. Pia and Kiki discuss in this bonus episode, what we liked and disliked about "Ultraviolet" and why you should give it a listen, too. AS EVERYTHING UNFOLDS' second album "Ultraviolet" comes out April 21st, 2023. Recorded on April 9th, 2023. Show notes: AS EVERYTHING UNFOLDS website Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Bonus episode edited by Pia. Subscribe now to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Join the conversation on the podcast channel in Kiki's Discord server. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

As a musician, finding a band to join can become very difficult. There are not always friends around who share the same vision as you. To start a band, different things have to fit: characters, skill levels, music style choices, availabilities, and ambitions. In this episode, Pia asks Kiki about her journey as a musician and Joko comes back to tell us about her experiences, which include several collaborations and sharing the stage with CALIBAN, while she looks for her next band. Together, we also discuss whether searching for a band is even more difficult for women, gender double standards in the matter, and we try to find a male vocalist who “does it all”. Recorded on March 17th, 2023. 00:02:05 Kiki's and Joko's histories as musicians 00:14:29 The difference between Power Metal and Symphonic Metal 00:17:59 Joko's collaborations 00:23:03 How to search for a band 00:28:14 Different standards for male and female vocalists 00:41:38 Band search after/during the pandemic 00:50:03 Music and games Show notes: Kiki's cover collab of VOLUMES' 'Bend'Beershotsisters on YouTubethe Bleeding Metal channel on Kiki's Discord server Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Pia. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

The new IN FLAMES album "Foregone" has both of us, Pia and Kiki, hyped and impressed. In this episode, we discuss the history of the band, the role of the pandemic on "Foregone", and the lyrics on the album and how they relate to current topics in the world. Recorded on February 22nd, 2023. Show notes: Pia's Interview with IN FLAMES-vocalist Anders FridénBleeding Metal episode about Pandemic, War, and Mental HealthMusic video for IN FLAMES' 'Forgone pt. 1'Music video for IN FLAMES' 'Forgone pt. 2' Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Bonus episode edited by Pia. Subscribe now to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

German Symphonic Metal band XANDRIA starts a new era with their album "The Wonders Still Awaiting" giving us an opportunity to talk to them and reflect on moments when we have reinvented ourselves, including this podcast. XANDRIA-founder Marco Heubaum and the band's new vocalist Ambre Vourvahis join Kiki and Pia to catch up on what was happening with the band during their break, how the new lineup came together, and the future of the band holds. There were technical difficulties with this episode and we were not able to keep our usual audio quality - we apologize for that and thank you for your patience. Listen in for some emotional insight into "The Wonders Still Awaiting" and how we deal with change. Recorded on January 30th, 2023. 01:30 XANDRIA's break and come-back with "The Wonders Still Awaiting" 21:24 How Ambre and Marco see their own reinventions 30:13 Kiki and Pia talk about times when they have reinvented themselves 39:22 Reinventing Metal & High Heels into Bleeding Metal 42:33 Music and games we're enjoying Show notes: Our bonus episode about XANDRIA's "The Wonders Still Awaiting"XANDRIA's websiteMetal & High Heels band special about XANDRIA Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Kiki. Subscribe to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

After around five years of complete silence, the German Symphonic Metal band XANDRIA returns with a new line-up and a new album. In this short bonus episode, Pia and Kiki discuss their opinions and interpretations of the full-length release that the band has optimistically titled "The Wonders Still Awaiting". Recorded on January 27th, 2023. Show notes: XANDRIA's websiteMetal & High Heels band special about XANDRIA Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Bonus episode edited by Pia. Subscribe now to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

Gina Lucia runs a Youtube channel with the related #bookstagram and discord community around books and reading. However, unlike most resources about reading, she doesn't strictly encourage doing it more and more. Instead, her videos are analytical about the psychology of reading and can even be critical of a society that puts people who read more books on a pedestal. Gina gives advice about reading but most importantly about taking the pressure off this activity. Another important focus to her is that reading is inclusive and accessible to everyone. We loved talking to her about her journey to becoming a YouTuber as well as inquiring about her taste in music and games. Recorded on January 19th, 2023. 01:02 Gina's introduction 10:27 Gina Lucia Reads on Youtube 18:24 The snobbery around reading 26:42 Reading a lot as a social virtue 32:17 Reading and consuming stories through other media 42:17 Gina's Readathons 48:51 Music we're listening to right now Shownotes: Gina Lucia's websiteGina's video "Will AI Art Change the Book Industry?"Gina's video "Why Audiobooks Count as Reading"Twenty Thousand Hertz Podcast episode about audio descriptions called "A Thousand Words" Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Kiki. Subscribe now to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message

Another year comes to a close and we're reminiscing about it. Kiki and Pia discuss their favorite albums of the year, what bands they have discovered, and what video games they have been playing. We also take a look at what's coming up in 2023 with excitement and hope. Listen in and tell us your favorites of this eventful year. Recorded on December 6th, 2022. 03:40 Bleeding Metal Podcast Recap 13:57 The year in music 31:44 Upcoming music in 2023 35:09 Band discoveries of the year 37:57 Games of the year 2022 Shownotes: Listen to 'Sirens - Of Blood And Water' by EPICA ft. Charlotte Wessels and Myrkur on Spotify Bleeding Metal was created and is hosted and produced by @kikigege87 and @power_pia. Episode edited by Pia. Subscribe now to the Bleeding Metal Podcast on iTunes or follow us on Spotify and Instagram @bleedingmetalpod. Intro music by Savvier Nelson with vocals from PERSONA-singer Jelena Dobric. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bleedingmetal/message