The Carbon Copy

Since we stopped The Carbon Copy, some listeners had questions about what’s next. Here's a preview of our new podcast, the Transition-AI event in December, and a new newsletter called the AI-Energy Nexus. Stay tuned to the feed for our new show, dropping later this fall!

Dynamic pricing is everywhere – and impacts all of us. Whether it's the time of day, your location, or the amount of demand, so many of our decisions are driven by real-time pricing changes. But it's still a relatively new concept in electricity. This week, we're featuring a conversation with Scott Engstrom of GridX and Economist Ahmad Faruqui on the imperative for good rate design – and the consequences of getting it wrong. How do we create dynamic rates that are fair, transparent, and effective at valuing distributed resources? And how do we use technology to design and implement those rates – and perhaps eventually automate them on a real-time basis, as many hope? This episode was recorded live as part of our Frontier Forum series. Watch the full video here.

Some news: this will be our final installment of The Carbon Copy. But don’t go anywhere! Later this fall, the feed will be transformed into a new show that will profile the people architecting the clean energy economy. We promise it will be a valuable part of your media diet. For our last episode, we brought back some old friends: Jigar Shah, director of the DOE’s loan programs office, and Katherine Hamilton, chair of 38 North. Jigar, Katherine, and Stephen dissect some of the biggest storylines of the year in clean energy business and policy. They’ll tackle AI energy demand, grid constraints, geothermal, nuclear, the demise of California's rooftop solar industry, and America’s green bank. Which trends are overrated, which ones are underrated, and what does it all mean for mass deployment? The Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund will provide $27 billion for clean energy projects nationwide, potentially mobilizing up to $150 billion in public and private capital. Join Latitude Media and Banyan Infrastructure on July 18th for an in-depth discussion on how we can deploy these billions with the highest impact. Register for free here. Make sure to listen to our new podcast, Political Climate – an insider’s view on the most pressing policy questions in energy and climate. Tune in every other Friday for the latest takes from hosts Julia Pyper, Emily Domenech, and Brandon Hurlbut. Available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

When millions of smart meters rolled out across the country at the turn of the last decade, many people hoped it would create the backbone of a digital grid. Today, you’ll find few who think meters lived up to expectations. One survey found only 3% of advanced meters supported by the 2009 stimulus bill brought customer savings. Mike Phillips, the CEO of Sense, is still bullish on the role of advanced meters for grid intelligence and bill savings. But as utilities start a new wave of rollouts to replace old technology, he worries they aren’t investing in the right architecture. “Most people think of meters just as data collection devices. You have to start to change that mindset, and once you start to think of this as a distributed platform – not just a data collection device – this entire world of making use of machine learning at the edge starts to get opened up,” said Philips. This week: a conversation with Mike Phillips on what AMI 2.0 should look like. Past deployments of smart meters didn't bring the intelligence promised. How do we avoid the same outcome? The Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund will provide $27 billion for clean energy projects nationwide, potentially mobilizing up to $150 billion in public and private capital. Join Latitude Media and Banyan Infrastructure on July 18th for an in-depth discussion on how we can deploy these billions with the highest impact. Register for free here. Make sure to listen to our new podcast, Political Climate – an insider’s view on the most pressing policy questions in energy and climate. Tune in every other Friday for the latest takes from hosts Julia Pyper, Emily Domenech, and Brandon Hurlbut. Available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Solar is the fastest growing electricity-generating technology in history. That rapid scaling was a result of squeezing cost reductions out of every step of production. But there's one critical piece that hasn't changed much: frames. Aluminum frames now make up one-quarter of the cost of a PV module. And that metal mostly comes from China, a country that controls nearly 60% of the world’s smelting. Since passage of the Inflation Reduction Act, companies have built or planned 155 gigawatts of production capacity for modules, cells, wafers, and power electronics in the US. But up until now, frames have been overlooked. So what would it take to replace foreign-sourced aluminum with US-made recycled steel – and why does it matter? This week, we feature a conversation with Gregg Patterson, the CEO of Origami Solar, and MJ Shiao, the VP of supply chain and manufacturing at the American Clean Power Association. This conversation isn’t just about frames – it's a story about geopolitics, trade, the complexities of manufacturing, and the urgency of improving the reliability of solar. This event was recorded live as part of Latitude Media’s Frontier Forum series, in partnership with Origami Solar. You can watch the full conversation here.

A lot of climate tech investors are still trying to figure out how to invest in artificial intelligence. Will it become a unique investment category? Or just a natural enhancement of what many startups are already building? There’s an emerging class of startups with AI at the center of their business. Citrine Informatics is using generative AI to speed up discovery of new materials; Koloma is using AI to identify potential sources of geologic hydrogen; and Zanskar is using AI to accelerate and derisk geothermal exploration. Andrew Beebe, managing director at Obvious Ventures, thinks that AI is pushing the “edge of the possible” in climate tech. He recently led a $30 million Series B round in Zanskar, calling it “generative science at work.” “I think generative science is the next phase…it is going to shorten the distance to some of these massive solutions,” in batteries, solar, nuclear, and geothermal, said Beebe, speaking on The Carbon Copy. “Zanskar doesn't have special drilling technology. They don't have new fluids or new Rankin cycle systems on the top. They literally just have a better way to look for geothermal because in America.” This week, Beebe joins the show to riff on AI-driven climate solutions, the need for more clean, firm power to meet rising power demand, and a variety of other tech trends that are shaping what he calls “the climate decade.” Utility rates could make or break the energy transition – so how do we do it right? On June 13th, Latitude Media and GridX are hosting a Frontier Forum to examine the imperative of good rate design, and the consequences of getting it wrong. Register here. And make sure to listen to our new podcast, Political Climate – an insider’s view on the most pressing policy questions in energy and climate. Tune in every other Friday for the latest takes from hosts Julia Pyper, Emily Domenech, and Brandon Hurlbut. Available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

We need to invest many trillions of dollars every year to build a climate-positive economy. We know what those technologies are – but they're all at very different levels of readiness. So what would it take to scale critical climate technologies? That was the simple-but-complicated question recently posed by a group of energy, industry, and high-tech experts at McKinsey. The research offers a clear account of the state of a dozen types of climate technologies, which could collectively slash emissions by 90%. We sat down with co-authors Anna Orthofer and Mark Patel to walk through the adoption pathways for everything from renewables to hydrogen to lab-grown meat. What's ready to scale, and what's behind schedule? Utility rates could make or break the energy transition – so how do we do it right? On June 13th, Latitude Media and GridX are hosting a Frontier Forum to examine the imperative of good rate design, and the consequences of getting it wrong. Register here. And make sure to listen to our new podcast, Political Climate – an insider’s view on the most pressing policy questions in energy and climate. Tune in every other Friday for the latest takes from hosts Julia Pyper, Emily Domenech, and Brandon Hurlbut. Available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Data centers are an impressive energy success story. Over the last 25 years, internet traffic has climbed more than 500x while data center electricity use has remained flat. The servers and energy infrastructure have gotten wildly more efficient, and the biggest tech companies have focused on powering those warehouse-scale computers with renewables. But a lot of people are suddenly alarmed about data centers again, as energy demand for AI surges. Data centers are getting built so fast, many utilities are pushing for lots of new fossil gas plants to serve them. And while tech companies have made strong progress on building renewables to match data centers, grid constraints are making it harder. We have a very small window to fully decarbonize the grid – this may make it harder to squeeze through it. So, are growing concerns over AI’s power demand justified? How are they contributing to America’s growing hunger for electricity? And what technologies and grid management techniques can address it? This week, we’ve assembled a group of experts to answer those questions: Brian Janous, co-founder of Cloverleaf Infrastructure; Michelle Solomon, senior policy analyst at Energy Innovation; and John Belizaire, CEO of data center developer Soluna. This conversation was part of Latitude Media’s Transition-AI series. Watch the full event here. Utility rates could make or break the energy transition – so how do we do it right? On June 13th, Latitude Media and GridX are hosting a Frontier Forum to examine the imperative of good rate design, and the consequences of getting it wrong. Register here. And make sure to listen to our new podcast, Political Climate – an insider’s view on the most pressing policy questions in energy and climate. Tune in every other Friday for the latest takes from hosts Julia Pyper, Emily Domenech, and Brandon Hurlbut. Available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The origin of Tesla was rooted in two goals: electrify transportation to drive down emissions that are warming the planet; and do it by driving down the cost of EVs to make them accessible to the masses. Is Musk now walking away from both? “He's decided I'm not a car company. I’m an AI and robotics company. It's astonishing what's happening with Tesla,” said Steve LeVine, editor of The Electric, a publication on batteries and EVs from The Information. Tesla has always been a tumultuous company. But the last few months have been particularly chaotic – and possibly more transformative than any other moment in its history. This week, we talk with LeVine about the whirlwind inside Tesla. We'll hear about a series of decisions by Musk that threw the car teams into turmoil, and could radically change the course of the company. Utility rates could make or break the energy transition – so how do we do it right? On June 13th, Latitude Media and GridX are hosting a Frontier Forum to examine the imperative of good rate design, and the consequences of getting it wrong. Register here. And make sure to listen to our new podcast, Political Climate – an insider’s view on the most pressing policy questions in energy and climate. Tune in every other Friday for the latest takes from hosts Julia Pyper, Emily Domenech, and Brandon Hurlbut. Available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This week, we have something a little different: a news quiz. We recently took the stage with four investors at the Prelude Climate Summit — armed with a bell, a buzzer, and four different categories of questions. We tested two teams of venture investors on their knowledge of the most recent industry news. Shayle Kann and Cassie Bowe, partners at venture firm Energy Impact Partners, are team "High Voltage." Shayle is also host of Latitude’s climate tech deep-dive podcast Catalyst. Dr. Carley Anderson, principal at venture firm Prelude Ventures, and Matt Eggers, Prelude’s manager director, are team "Shayle Gassed." Which team will come out on top? Utility rates could make or break the energy transition – so how do we do it right? On June 13th, Latitude Media and GridX are hosting a Frontier Forum to examine the imperative of good rate design, and the consequences of getting it wrong. Register here. And make sure to listen to our new podcast, Political Climate – an insider’s view on the most pressing policy questions in energy and climate. Tune in every other Friday for the latest takes from hosts Julia Pyper, Emily Domenech, and Brandon Hurlbut. Available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This week, we have something a little different: a news quiz. We recently took the stage with four investors at the Prelude Climate Summit — armed with a bell, a buzzer, and four different categories of questions. We tested two teams of venture investors on their knowledge of the most recent industry news. Shayle Kann and Cassie Bowe, partners at venture firm Energy Impact Partners, are team "High Voltage." Shayle is also host of Latitude’s climate tech deep-dive podcast Catalyst. Dr. Carley Anderson, principal at venture firm Prelude Ventures, and Matt Eggers, Prelude’s manager director, are team "Shayle Gassed." Which team will come out on top? Utility rates could make or break the energy transition – so how do we do it right? On June 13th, Latitude Media and GridX are hosting a Frontier Forum to examine the imperative of good rate design, and the consequences of getting it wrong. Register here. And make sure to listen to our new podcast, Political Climate – an insider’s view on the most pressing policy questions in energy and climate. Tune in every other Friday for the latest takes from hosts Julia Pyper, Emily Domenech, and Brandon Hurlbut. Available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This week, we have a drop-in episode from our new podcast at Latitude Media: Political Climate. Since the Inflation Reduction Act became law in August 2022, we’ve asked ourselves a big question: could the government and the private sector actually get this sprawling set of climate programs up and running? So far, many would answer “yes.” The IRA has already created over 170,000 jobs and supported $110 billion in new clean energy manufacturing – with a majority of that investment headed to conservative-leaning states. Now, as we head toward November’s presidential election, many Americans are wondering whether a second Trump Administration could unravel much of the work that’s been done. In the first episode of the new season of Political Climate, hosts Julia Pyper, Brandon Hurlbut and Emily Domenech take stock of the IRA: they discuss how it’s been received politically, the roadblocks facing implementation, and look toward the different scenarios that could unfold after the election. The show wraps up with our brand-new segment, “The Mark-up.” Subscribe to Latitude Media’s newsletter to get weekly updates on tech, markets, policy, and deals across clean energy and climate tech.

AI is suddenly in use everywhere – and it’s headed for the power sector. New research from Latitude Intelligence and Indigo Advisory Group shows a coming wave of AI integration, inside and outside of utilities. Distributed energy companies are increasingly integrating AI into their products, and many power companies are building teams to take advantage of automation for operational efficiency and grid monitoring. But adoption will be uneven – and an autonomous superbrain for the electric grid may never fully materialize. In this episode, we’ll break down the pathways for AI on the electric grid, and test the market knowledge of a few leaders in this space. We’re joined by David Groarke, who led the research for Latitude Intelligence on AI adoption; Sadia Raveendran, VP of industry solutions at Uplight; and Apoorv Bhargava, CEO and co-founder of WeaveGrid. We’ll look at the influx of EVs, the rise of virtual power plants, and the growth in peak demand and ask: where is artificial intelligence and machine learning helping? Are growing concerns over AI’s power demand justified? Join us for our upcoming Transition-AI event featuring three experts with a range of views on how to address the energy needs of hyperscale computing, driven by artificial intelligence. Don’t miss this live, virtual event on May 8.

John O’Donnell co-founded and ran two solar thermal companies. He watched as the technology shifted from being the most promising utility-scale solar technology, to getting out-competed by photovoltaics everywhere. But he stayed passionate about heat. Today, he’s CEO of Rondo Energy, which makes a “heat battery” for industrial applications using bricks, heating coils, and cheap, intermittent renewables. And that cheap PV that made solar thermal so difficult is now a critical input for decarbonizing factories and processing plants. John distills his decade and a half in the solar thermal business to a simple lesson: don't be too innovative. In this episode, we talk with John O’Donnell about the different methods for decarbonizing industrial heat, the use cases for heat batteries, and lessons learned from his days in solar thermal. Are growing concerns over AI’s power demand justified? Join us for our upcoming Transition-AI event featuring three experts with a range of views on how to address the energy needs of hyperscale computing, driven by artificial intelligence. Don’t miss this live, virtual event on May 8.

Mark Gurman has been covering Apple since 2009. His reporting career is full of scoops about new products or strategic decisions from inside the company. His latest scoop in February: Apple is finally shutting down its efforts to build an autonomous electric car. Apple first started exploring an electric car in 2014. At that point, cars had already become computers on wheels, Tesla was scaling mass-market production, and vehicle autonomy was the hottest thing in the tech industry. “It made sense that Apple, which has a massive prowess in manufacturing, an incredible design ethos and a high standard for safety…would try to take a crack at that market,” said Gurman, a chief correspondent at Bloomberg. But after a decade of internal disputes, redesigns, and leadership changes, Apple is officially moving on from cars. “This was a clear admission of failure and admission of a need to disperse some of the resources from that program to other projects at the company,” explained Gurman. In March, Gurman co-authored a piece detailing exactly what happened over the last 10 years of secretive work. This week, we talk with him about the vision, the technological challenges, and ask: what if Apple had just acquired Tesla from the start? This episode is brought to you by The Big Switch. In a new 5-episode season, we’re digging into the ways batteries are made and asking: what gets mined, traded, and consumed on the road to decarbonization? Listen on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows.

The US green hydrogen industry is at a critical juncture. After months of input and debate, the government put out draft rules for tax credits at the end of last year – setting strict requirements for matching new, local renewables to hydrogen production. It was hailed by many as a really important step for ensuring that green hydrogen actually lives up to its name. But across the industry, the reaction has been mixed – even among those who want to make the industry as clean as possible. Maeve Allsup, one of our reporters at Latitude Media, started asking around the industry: how are these rules impacting projects? This week, we have a crossover episode with The Latitude, a podcast that brings you stories from our journalists and columnists reporting at the commercial edge of energy tech, markets, and deals. Editor Lisa Martine Jenkins presents two features from the pages of Latitude Media on how the US green hydrogen industry is responding to new rules and canceling some projects. Like what you hear? For more of Latitude Media’s coverage of the frontiers of clean energy, sign up for our newsletter. This episode is brought to you by The Big Switch. In a new 5-episode season, we’re digging into the ways batteries are made and asking: what gets mined, traded, and consumed on the road to decarbonization? Listen on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows.

There are many forces that could hold back AI in the power system: computing infrastructure, power availability, regulation, and corporate inertia. The biggest one? Good data. Utilities and grid operators are awash in data. But getting access to it – or making sense of it – is very difficult. For a better understanding of how to change that, we turn to someone who spends a lot of his time in the so-called data cloud: Tititaan Palazzi, the head of power and utilities at Snowflake. “Data naturally ends up in different boxes, in different silos. And when you then want to ask questions of the data, it becomes really hard. You can't ask questions across the enterprise,” he explained. In 2018, Palazzi co-founded Myst AI with Pieter Verhoeven, an engineer who built critical demand response applications for the Nest Thermostat. Myst was focused on AI-driven time-series forecasting for the grid. “In the energy industry, there is a lot of time-series data coming from the grid. At the same time, using AI for forecasting is quite challenging because every time you need to create a new prediction, you need to have the latest data. And so from an engineering perspective, it was quite complicated to do,” said Palazzi. Palazzi and Verhoeven arrived at Snowflake after Myst was acquired by the company last year. This week, we feature a conversation with Snowflake's Titiaan Palazzi on busting data silos, some early wins for AI in the power sector, and what phase of the transition we're in. This episode is brought to you by The Big Switch. In a new 5-episode season, we’re digging into the ways batteries are made and asking: what gets mined, traded, and consumed on the road to decarbonization? Listen on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows.

Early in her career, Amanda Li worked on many deals in solar and storage as part of a billion-dollar sustainable infrastructure fund. And she discovered a problem that often hinders deployment: the underwriting process is cumbersome and slow. “All of it was in spreadsheets, word documents, emails. When you look at a solar deal, there's a lot of documentation, a lot of counterparties to deal with, and that information needs to be processed somehow. It felt like we were spending a lot of time just trying to process the information,” explained Li. This problem has only grown over time as more distributed assets need financing, and policies like the Inflation Reduction Act support smaller clean energy projects at the community level. These small- to mid-sized projects often require as much diligence and paperwork as much larger deals. So in 2018, Amanda co-founded Banyan Infrastructure, a software platform that simplifies transactions for a wide range of sustainable infrastructure projects – replacing spreadsheets, email, and PDFs with digitized loans and workflows. The company has raised more than $42 million and works with green banks, Wall Street firms, and local lenders to make deals simpler. “If at every single layer there aren't standards, there aren't connected processes, it's going to move really slowly,” said Li. In this episode, produced in partnership with Banyan Infrastructure, we explore the shifting world of sustainable finance. Stephen Lacey talks with Banyan COO Amanda Li about solving financial bottlenecks, how the IRA is bringing in new players to the market, and what it will take to unlock trillions of new dollars per year for the energy transition. Banyan Infrastructure is simplifying and accelerating the financing of sustainable infrastructure. Read the company’s white paper on unlocking the full potential of sustainable finance, or request a demo to learn how the software works.

When Brian Janous took charge of Microsoft’s clean energy strategy in 2011, the company’s data center demand was modest. He was measuring new demand in the tens of megawatts. Over the years, that grew to hundreds of megawatts of new demand as hyperscale computing expanded. And then everything changed in the spring of 2023, with the public launch of ChatGPT 3.5, which ran on Microsoft’s data centers. “That was the moment that I realized we were going to need a bigger boat. This is a massive leap in a period of like six months – and the amount of time that it takes to actually build infrastructure was measured in years,” said Janous. Projections show data center energy demand could double in the next couple of years, driven by artificial intelligence. Janous saw the hockey stick growth coming, and he realized the disconnect between how fast AI is moving and how the core input to data centers – electricity supply – is struggling to keep pace. After decades of flat demand, load forecasts are doubling because of data centers, expanding ports, new manufacturing plants supported by the IRA, and electric cars. Janous recently co-founded a company, Cloverleaf Infrastructure, to help utilities unlock grid capacity with grid-enhancing technologies, batteries, and other flexible resources to meet the onslaught of new demand. He also advises LineVision, a dynamic line rating company that is helping expand transmission capacity. This week: we talk with Janous about why we don't need energy miracles – we need to think creatively about planning, and squeezing more out of the system. This episode is brought to you by The Big Switch. In a new 5-episode season, we’re digging into the ways batteries are made and asking: what gets mined, traded, and consumed on the road to decarbonization? Listen on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows.

In the early 2000s, Steve Cotton ran a company serving the fast-growing data center industry with backup battery systems. And when those systems reached the end of their lives, the company monetized kilotons of lead-acid batteries by sending them to recycling facilities – industrial plants that break down and burn the components. “It's very dangerous. You've got lead dust all over the floor. You've got a bunch of people wearing hot suits, literally chucking batteries into high temperature furnaces. And it is not a healthy environment,” said Cotton. Two decades later, the technology has shifted – and lithium-ion batteries are now the dominant form of storage. But recycling hasn't changed a lot. Today, there are two types of dominant battery recycling methods. One is using high heat, similar to the process that Steve witnessed at the lead-acid facilities. The other is giving batteries a chemical bath, in a process known as hydrometallurgy. Both create a lot of waste. Steve saw how big the battery recycling waste problem could become. And in 2015, he invested in a company called Aqua Metals. And he became so convinced by Aqua Metals' novel approach to recycling, he became the CEO. “We're using electricity to drive the process and the electricity itself comes from renewable resources. And that can produce this metal supply chain with a true opportunity to have a net zero environmental impact,” said Cotton. The battery recycling industry is experiencing rapid growth, as companies and countries look to build secure, circular supply chains for critical minerals. In this episode, produced in partnership with Aqua Metals, Steve Cotton sits down with Stephen Lacey to talk about the growing battery waste problem, and the urgency to invest in recycling techniques that don't lock in new sources of waste. This is a partner episode, brought to you by AquaMetals. Aqua Metals is pioneering cleaner and safer battery metals recycling through innovation. The company is building the first sustainable battery recycling operation in North America in Tahoe-Reno. Watch a tour of the company’s pilot facility, and learn more by reading the company’s recyclopedia.