Two for Tea with Iona Italia and Helen Pluckrose-logo

Two for Tea with Iona Italia and Helen Pluckrose


Areo Magazine's Two for Tea podcast is hosted by Iona Italia. For early access to episodes, support us at or

Areo Magazine's Two for Tea podcast is hosted by Iona Italia. For early access to episodes, support us at or


United Kingdom


Areo Magazine's Two for Tea podcast is hosted by Iona Italia. For early access to episodes, support us at or






132 - Andrew Curran - Who's Black and Why?

General Visit Andrew’s website: Find out more about Andrew’s books, including ‘The Anatomy of Blackness: Science and Slavery in an Age of Enlightenment’ and his co-edited, with Henry Louis Gates, Jr., volume ‘Who’s Black and Why? A Hidden Chapter from the Eighteenth-Century Invention of Race’, which are the focus of this podcast: Follow Andrew on Twitter: References Andrew’s...


131 - Steven Pinker - Rationality

General Visit Steven’s website, which includes information about all his books, including his latest, ‘Rationality’, and how to purchase them: Follow Steven on Twitter: Timestamps 00:00 Opening and introduction. 2:17 The conventional wisdom that humans are irredeemably irrational is wrong: rationality is actually prevalent and innate. Iona reads passages from Steven’s newest book ‘Rationality: What It Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It...


130 - Mark Schatzker - The Lost Wisdom of Eating Well

General Visit Mark’s website, where you can find out more information about his books, including how to purchase them: Follow Mark on Twitter: References Mark’s paper, co-authored with Jeffrey Brunstrom, on micronutrients and food choice: Timestamps 0:00 Opening and introduction. 2:02 Mark reads a passage from his book ‘The End of Craving: Recovering the Lost...


129 - Matt Johnson - The War in Ukraine

General Follow Matt on Twitter: Some of Matt’s previous writing and speaking about Ukraine: References Two for Tea episode...


128 - Katy Barnett and Jeremy Gans - The Weird and Wonderful History of Animal Law

General Buy Katy and Jeremy’s book ‘Guilty Pigs: The Weird and Wonderful History of Animal Law’: Katy’s academic webpage: Follow Katy on Twitter: Jeremy’s academic webpage: Follow Jeremy on Twitter: Opinions on High, a legal blog that both Kate...


127 - Arvid Agren - The Gene's-Eye View

General Arvid’s website: Buy Arvid’s book ‘The Gene’s-Eye View of Evolution’: Follow Arvid on Twitter: References Daniel’s Areo review of Arvid’s ‘The Gene’s-Eye View of Evolution’: Two for Tea episode featuring Sean B. Carroll:...


126 - Simon Prentis - How Language Made Us Human

General Visit Simon’s website for information about him and to buy his book ‘SPEECH! How Language Made Us Human’: Follow Simon on Twitter: References Two for Tea interview with Sean B. Carroll: The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis (linguistic relativity): Simon’s Areo...


125 - Arjun Moorthy - Revolutionising the News

General Follow Arjun on Twitter: The Factual: References Matthew Walker’s ‘Why We Sleep’: Timestamps 00.00 Opening and intro. The Factual: credibility grading of news articles/stories. 2:33 The Factual’s history, its mission and ethos, its process of evaluating articles/stories, and the technology behind it. 6:25 Iona on Areo and the foundation of all good...


124 - Oliver Burkeman - Time Management for Mortals

Visit Oliver’s website: Follow Oliver on Twitter: Oliver’s most recent book ‘Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals’: Oliver’s book ‘The Antidote: Happiness for People Who Can’t Stand Positive Thinking’: Oliver’s book ‘HELP!: How to Become Slightly Happier and Get a Bit More Done’:...


123 - Matt Ridley - The Origins of COVID-19

General Buy Matt and Alina Chan’s book ‘Viral: The Search for the Origin of COVID-19’: Matt’s website, where you can find out more about him and his other books and work: Follow Matt on Twitter: References Some of Michael Worobey’s work on the origins of...


122 - Alex Korb - Conquering Depression

General Alex’s website: Follow Alex on Twitter: Buy Alex’s book ‘The Upward Spiral: Using Neuroscience to Reverse the Course of Depression, One Small Change at a Time’: Buy Alex’s book ‘The Upward Spiral Workbook: A Practical Neuroscience Program for Reversing...


121 - Nicholas Christakis - Living Through the Plague

General Follow Nicholas on Twitter: The Human Nature Lab at Yale University, of which Nicholas is the director: Buy Nicholas’ books, including his latest, ‘Apollo’s Arrow: The Profound and Enduring Impact of Coronavirus on the Way We Live’:...


120 - Rob Henderson - Family Dysfunction, Victimhood and Luxury Beliefs

General Discover Rob’s writing, interviews, and other work on his website: Follow Rob on Twitter: References Rob’s essay ‘America's Lost Boys and Me’: Rob’s essay ‘Elite universities should stop prizing victimhood’: Timestamps 00.00 Opening and introduction. 1:45 Rob’s difficult upbringing...


119 - Alan Davison - Diversity, Dogma and Dissent

General Follow Alan on Twitter: Alan’s academic profile: Alan and Josh Szeps’ special speaker podcast series ‘Permission to Think’ homepage: Josh Szeps’ podcast series ‘Uncomfortable Conversations’, of which ‘Permission to Think’ is under the aegis:...


118 - Meghan Daum - The Problem With Everything

General Find out more about Meghan, her books, and articles, on her website: Follow Meghan on Twitter: Buy Meghan’s book ‘The Problem With Everything: My Journey Through The New Culture Wars’: Buy Meghan’s book ‘The Unspeakable: And Other Subjects Of Discussion’: Listen to Meghan’s ‘The Unspeakable Podcast’:...


117 - Jacob Mchangama - The History of Free Speech

General Jacob’s website: Order Jacob’s forthcoming book, ‘Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media’: Jacob’s podcast series on free speech, ‘Clear and Present Danger’: Follow Jacob on Twitter: Discover more about Jacob’s think tank, Justitia: Timestamps 00:56 Iona introduces Jacob and his...


116 - Nev March - Murder in Old Bombay

General Nev’s website: Follow Nev on Twitter: Buy Nev’s first novel ‘Murder in Old Bombay’ here: Pre-order the sequel ‘Peril at the Exposition’ here: The Rajabai Clock Tower deaths, upon which Nev’s novel is based: Sample...


115 - Christopher Ferguson - The Influence of the Insane

Christopher’s website: Follow Christopher on Twitter: Christopher’s Amazon page, with links to his books, including ‘Moral Combat: Why the War on Violent Video Games Is Wrong’, ‘Suicide Kings’, and ‘How Madness Shaped History: An Eccentric Array of Maniacal Rulers, Raving Narcissists, and Psychotic Visionaries’: Christopher’s...


114 - Monica Guzman - The Power of Curiousity

Mónica’s Link Tree with links to preorder her upcoming book ‘I Never Thought Of It That Way’, her website, and more: Follow Mónica on Twitter: Braver Angels website: References John R. Wood Jr’s previous appearances on Two for Tea:


113 - Christoper Hitchens - A Tribute

Ben’s website: Follow Ben on Twitter: Buy ‘Christopher Hitchens: What He Got Right, How He Went Wrong, and Why He Still Matters’ by Ben Burgis: Follow Matt on Twitter: Daniel’s LinkTree (contains links to his website, Substack, and more): Follow Daniel on...