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Nature vs Narcissism

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Season 2 Announcements and Changes!

Exactly what the title says...announcements and changes for Season 2! WE HAVE A P.O. Box!!!! P.O. Box 498396 Cincinnati, Ohio 45249-8396 Send us things! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit


12-Year-Old Lifer (Paul Henry Gingerich) with Warbaby

Did you know that in Indiana (where this case takes place) under extreme circumstances, children as young as 10 years old can be tried and sentenced in adult courts? The child that we will be discussing in this case remains one of the youngest EVER to be tried in this fashion. In this collaboration, Heather and Warbaby (from the Murderous Minors: Killer Kids podcast) discuss Paul Henry Gingerich and Colt Lundy. On April 20, 2010, Indiana; 12-year-old Gingerich and Lundy were at Colt's home...


Kyle Plush (Answer the Call) with Lisa

In this collaboration, Heather and Lisa (from the Eye for an Eye podcast) discuss the tragic death of 16-year-old Cincinnatian, Kyle Plush. He was reaching for a tennis racket that was located behind the seat in the back of his van when the seat collapsed, folding shut on the teen as he dialed 911 for help. This story is so tragic because it seems as though he did everything in his power to get help to no avail. He was discovered dead 6 hours later, in his vehicle, in the parking lot of his...


Munchausen by Proxy: Part 2 (Gypsy & Godejohn) with Kate

In Part 2 of this episode, Heather and Kate (from the Ignorance Was Bliss podcast) discuss the consequences of Gypsy’s actions. Additionally, we hear about the interview that Gypsy’s stepmother, Kristy, had regarding information not released in the documentary. Again, I discuss this documentary and my reactions to it on the patreon feed for Status Pending with my cohost Scott Fuller. Gypsy’s boyfriend killed her mother (Dee Dee) after Gypsy suffered years of neglect and abuse at the hands of...


Munchausen by Proxy: Part 1 (Dee Dee & Gypsy) with Kate

In Part 1 of this episode, Heather and Kate (from the Ignorance Was Bliss podcast) have teamed up again to bring you another in-depth collaboration! In this 2-parter, we discuss Munchausen by Proxy and the effects that it has on the child as well as those around the diagnosed individual. Although rare, MBP is a real diagnosis that often times turns deadly. One of the most severe cases ever reported was the case of Dee Dee and Gypsy Rose Blanchard. We pulled a lot of the information from the...


A Dumpster Visit with Melissa and Tanya

Melissa (from JustTheTipsterspodcast) & Tanya from every true crime group ever come to Cincinnati, Ohio to hang out with Heather for the weekend! Melissa currently resides in California and Tanya resides in, yeah...they're basically the most awesome people ever! Granted, Melissa was going to KY to spend time with friends and family...but that's neither here nor there...she still loves Heather! In this bonus episode, we just chat garbage people topics whilst making fun of one...


Black Dahlia: Part 1 (w/Augie Peterson)

In this special collaboration episode, Heather teams up with Augie Peterson from the Short Stories of Augie Peterson podcast! In part 1; you will hear about the case of Elizabeth Short, aka the "Black Dahlia". This is found on the Nature vs Narcissism feed - well, would you look at're already here! In part 2; you will hear about the movie adaptation of the case...which apparently had nothing to do with the actual life and murder of Elizabeth Short. In enough words...this movie was...


Season 2 Updates & Shoutouts!

**UPDATES about Season 2 of Nature vs Narcissism,**SHOUTOUTS to Patreon supporters,**SPLIT SECOND series,**STATUS PENDING podcast,**and more.... THANK YOU, Supporters! Based on a True Crime Getting Off Status: Pending Frozen Truth Ignorance Was Bliss Lauren Allen Valerie Whitaker Megan Mayerle Learn more about your ad choices. Visit


Your Brain on Murder (Neal Falls, Sex Workers, Dismemberment & Subway Bags)

When Heather Saul opened her Charleston, WV door to greet the stranger she’d agreed to meet through an escort ad she had placed, she knew instantly she was in mortal danger. The man said just three words – “Live or die” – then held a gun to her stomach. The man grabbed Saul by the throat and dragged her around the house, until in a rush of pure adrenaline and an effort for self-preservation, she was able to get control of his gun and shot once, killing him. In this special collaboration...


Broadcast Podcast (Current Crime Stories & Past Experiences)

This episode is filled with shenanigans as dad and Ashley return for more crime & more stories. We recorded in the dining room as per the usual but we didn't wear headphones. At times, we couldn't tell how loud we were, so I tried adjusting and taking out the table bumps. After about halfway through, dad realized the error of his ways and backed away from the table. That didn't stop him, however, from texting during the entire "broadcast" - so you'll hear his phone in the background. We talk...


Ohio vs Canada: Murder Rate, Victims, Asylum Seekers, Conversion Therapy, & Cincy Beerfest (Bruce McArthur, Part 3)

This is part 3 of 3 with Amanda; our Canadian friend! This episode is pretty heavy in the sense that there are a lot of tough topics discussed. Please note: we tried to add some dark humor to make it easier to discuss but it was pretty rough. You’ve been warned. In this episode we discuss Brucie’s victims, Brucie’s arrest and current charges, asylum seekers and deportation, back to the dating sites that Bruce used, Status Pending Podcast, trauma that Bruce endured, nature vs nurture,...


Meet Bradley: The Canadian Confidential (Bruce McArthur, Part 1)

This is part 1 of 3 with Amanda; our Canadian friend! In this episode we will hear all about what it was like for Amanda to come to the United States where she now lives happily with her lovely wife, Sara! PLEASE NOTE: This episode had a lot of table bumps that Heather cut out because she couldn’t sit still. Sorry aboot it! Since this interview was so much fun and we discussed all things Canada along with Bruce McArthur and other crimes/criminals; we decided to break it down into 3 episodes....


Canada vs Ohio: Fingers, Butts, Gayborhood, & Poppers (Bruce McArthur, Part 2)

This is part 2 of 3 with Amanda; our Canadian friend! In this episode we discuss the early life of Bruce McArthur, the formation of what is referred to as the “Gayborhood” in Canada, boners, poppers, Halloween, Brucie’s first criminal charge for aggravated battery, spoops in Canada vs Ohio, haunted adventures, dating apps that Bruce used in order to explore his sexuality and gain potential victims, Waverly Hills, and Pride parade in Canada vs Ohio. Each episode contains crimes as well as...


Episode 27: Z (Zebra Murders)

In the FINAL letter episode of Season 1, Heather and Rachelle discuss the Zebra Murders aka The Zebra Killings. The best way to describe them is via a direct quote that we found here: The Zebra Killings were “execution-style shootings that killed 14 people and wounded eight others between October 1973 and April 1974, mostly at night along the city’s Divisadero Street corridor. The gunmen were African American and the...


BONUS Episode: wh"Y" though? (Serial Killer Monikers)

In this extra super-duper bonus episode, Heather and Rachelle discuss weird/odd monikers and why/how these serial killers received them! Although there are sensitive details in this episode, some of the facts surrounding the names is pretty comical. The killers discussed (briefly) are: Charlie Chop Off, The Brick Moron, The Giggler, The Happy Face Killer (covered in the Interview with Psychotherapist Jason Eric Ross episode from 08/09/18 ), Buttermilk Bluebeard, The Singing Strangler, The...


Episode 26: Y (Robert Lee Yates)

In this episode, Heather and Rachelle discuss Robert Lee Yates. Yates murdered at least 13 people (12 women and 1 man) but it is suspected that he murdered many more. One of the most confusing things about his motive/drive/whatever you want to call it; is the fact that he was mad at prostitutes (women that he killed) for selling their bodies as he grew up very religious and it was against his religion, yet he would participate in the selling of their bodies…he was the ‘John’. One of the best...


TEASER TUESDAY - Killer's Statement to Jury (feat. Nick Gansner from Getting Off Podcast)

This is a killer's statement to the jury during his trial. We were honored to have Defense Attorney Nick Gansner from the Getting Off Podcast read this statement for all of you! Subscribe to Getting Off today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit


CrimeCon SwagBag Contest Winners!

We had our drawing and picked 2 lucky winners for the CrimeCon SwagBag Contest! Stay tuned for more contests!! Winners: Please email with your address! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit


Interview with Psychotherapist & Actor Jason Eric Ross

This is a very special episode where Heather has the amazing opportunity to interview Jason Eric Ross! Jason is a licensed Psychotherapist, an actor and writer! At the age of 48 he moved back to NYC and began acting on shows such as The Perfect Murder, Mysteries at the Museum, and Dateline Crime with Tamron Hall. More recently, he became the first Psychotherapist to play an actual 'Psycho," when he portrayed Serial Killer Keith Jespersen on Evil Lives Here on Discovery ID, Season 3 Episode...


Patreon Exclusive - Split Second Series

Here is a teaser for the Patreon Exclusive series that Heather has started! Take a listen! This series is available for all tiers! It takes a more serious approach to discussing crimes...mostly in Ohio...mostly involving murder. Many of which are crimes and criminals that most probably haven't heard of before. There isn't dark humor either; so it is a bit different than what most Nature vs Narcissism listeners are accustomed to. Music:...