Planet Money

In 2008, Chicago’s budget was in a bad place. The city needed money. One way to raise money was to increase property taxes, but what politician wants to do that? So instead, Mayor Richard M. Daley’s administration looked around at the resources the city had, and thought, ‘Any of this worth anything?’ They opted to lease out the city’s metered parking system — to privatize all 36,000 of its parking meters. The plan: have private companies bid on operating the meters, modernizing the system, and keeping the profits for a certain number of years. In exchange, they would give Chicago a big lump sum payment. The winning bid was $1.16 billion dollars for a 75-year lease. Today’s episode is the story of how that bid got put together, and how it came to be hated. There are kidnapped parking meters, foot chases through City Hall, and trashbags filled with secret documents. Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was produced by Willa Rubin with help from Luis Gallo and Sam Yellowhorse Kesler. It was edited by Jess Jiang, fact-checked by Vito Emmanuel and engineered by Cena Loffredo and Robert Rodriguez. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. Music: NPR Source Audio - “Smoke Rings,” “Reverend,” and “Sniffin Glue.” Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

From nuclear fission to GPS to the internet, it’s common knowledge that many of the most resource intensive technologies of the last century got their start as military R&D projects in government-funded labs. But as Avery Trufelman explains in her fashion history podcast, Articles of Interest, the influence of the US military is, in many ways, even more intimate than that, shaping much of the clothing we all wear everyday. On today’s show, a tale of Army surplus economics. How military designs trickled down from the soldiers on the front lines to the hippies on the war protest line to the yuppies in line at Banana Republic. And why some of your favorite outdoor brands may just be moonlighting as U.S. military suppliers, while keeping it as under the radar as they can. Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode of Planet Money was produced by Luis Gallo, edited by Jess Jiang, fact checked by Yasmine Alsayyad, and engineered by Robert Rodriguez. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money’s executive producer. Articles of Interest is produced by Avery Trufelman, edited by Alison Beringer, fact checked by Yasmine Alsayyad, and engineered by Jocelyn Gonzalez. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

A few years ago, the Jamaican government started making an unusual financial bet. It went to investors around the world asking if they'd like to wager on the chances a major hurricane would hit the island in the next couple of years. In finance terms, these kinds of wagers are called "catastrophe bonds." They're a way to get investors to share the risk of a major disaster, whether that's a Japanese earthquake, a California wildfire, or a Jamaican hurricane. This market for catastrophe has gotten really hot lately. And it’s changing the way that insurance works for all of us. Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was produced by Willa Rubin and edited by Marianne McCune. It was engineered by Jimmy Keeley and Kwesi Lee. Fact-checking by Sierra Juarez and Vito Emanuel. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. Music: Universal Music Production - “Lagos to London,” “Sleazy Does It,” “The Sundown Set.” Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Vote for us in NPR’s People’s Choice Awards: npr.org/peopleschoice AI is already reshaping how people find work. Fewer entry-level jobs, robot recruiters, and ever-changing new skill requirements all add up to a new, daunting landscape for humans trying to find dignified work. Today on the show: two stories from the edges of a changing labor market. First we’ll assess claims that AI is causing a white collar job apocalypse. What does the data actually say? We meet an economist who has found one small but fascinating way to measure the impact of AI on workers. Then, we go face-to-face, or at least voice-to-voice, with AI. We meet a robot recruiter for a job interview and find cause to ask, ‘When might that actually be preferable to a human recruiter?’ Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. The original Indicator episodes were hosted by Wailin Wong, Darian Woods, and Adrian Ma. They were produced by Cooper Katz McKim and engineered by Robert Rodriguez and Debbie Daughtry. They were fact checked by Sierra Juarez. They were edited by Paddy Hirsch and Kate Concannon. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Taylor Swift reaches new heights with her latest album, which is both divisive and record-breaking. And it’s fueled by an elaborate series of business choices that propel profits but also chart numbers. Today’s episode comes from our friends at Today Explained, Vox’s lively, smart daily news podcast. Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Support our show. Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen to Planet Money free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was hosted by Noel King. It was produced by Ariana Aspuru, edited by Amina Al-Sadi, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, and engineered by Adriene Lilly. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Givewell is a nonprofit organization that gives money to “save or improve the most lives per dollar.” Part of their whole thing is a rigorous research process with copious and specific datapoints. So, in the chaotic wake of USAID’s gutting, they scrambled to figure out if they could fund the kind of projects USAID used to. Today on the show: GiveWell let us in on their decision-making process, as they try to reconcile the urgency of the moment with their normal diligence. We get to watch as they decide if they can back one project, to support health facilities in Cameroon. Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was hosted by Mary Childs. It was produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kesler. It was edited by Marianne McCune, fact-checked by Vito Emanuel, and engineered by Jimmy Keeley with help from Robert Rodriguez. Planet Money’s executive producer is Alex Goldmark. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Wherever consumer sentiment goes, consumer spending usually goes too. They’re like buddies that do everything together. Consumer sentiment wants a hair cut, its buddy consumer spending does too. But lately, these friends are drifting apart. While consumer sentiment about the economy is down … spending remains strong. And not just that… Interest rates are still high, inflation is growing, tariffs have made the prices of goods go up. And yet, consumer spending looks good. What gives? Today - a consumer spending mystery. Is the economy actually healthy? Or is something distorting our view of the economy? Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was hosted by Sarah Gonzalez and Kenny Malone. It was produced by James Sneed. It was edited by Meg Cramer and fact-checked by Sierra Juarez. It was engineered by Debbie Daughtry and Kwesi Lee. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Tariffs. They’ve been announced, unannounced, re-announced, raised and lowered. It’s an on-going saga with billions at stake! On today’s episode, we run full-on at the twisty, turny drama of life with broad-based tariffs and tackle perhaps our most asked question: Are we, regular U.S. shoppers, feeling the tariffs yet? When we’re at the grocery store or the coffee shop, are we paying more for things because of the tariffs? We now have the data to get a very clear answer to that question. Plus, we hear a cautionary tale from our dear colleague James Sneed, who ordered a collectible doll and wound up with a surprise tariff bill at his door. Related episodes: Are Trump's tariffs legal?What is Temu?What "Made in China" actually means Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was produced by Willa Rubin and edited by Jess Jiang. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez with research help from Vito Emanuel. It was engineered by Jimmy Keeley and Maggie Luthar. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. Music: NPR Source Audio - “Mirror,” “Remorse,” “Endless,” “Secrets,” “Schmaltzy,” “Water Mirror.” Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Last month, during the longest government shutdown in U.S. history, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent announced that the United States had offered to functionally loan Argentina $20 billion. Despite the sums involved, this bailout required no authorization from Congress, because of the loan’s source: an obscure pool of money called the Exchange Stabilization Fund. The ESF is essentially the Treasury Department’s private slush fund. Its history goes all the way back to the Great Depression. But, in the 90 years since its creation, it has only been used one time at this scale to bailout an emerging economy: Mexico, in 1995. That case study contains some helpful lessons that can be used to make sense of Bessent’s recent move. Will this new credit line to Argentina work out as well as it did the last time we tried it? Or will Argentina’s economic troubles hamstring the Exchange Stabilization Fund forever? Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was hosted by Keith Romer and Erika Beras. It was produced by Luis Gallo. It was edited by Eric Mennel and fact checked by Sierra Juarez. It was engineered by Cena Loffredo. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money’s executive producer. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

(Note: A version of this episode originally ran in 2022.) Every time you shop online and make it to the checkout screen, you see those colorful pastel buttons at the bottom. Affirm. Klarna. Afterpay. Asking: Do you want to split your payment into interest-free installments? No credit check needed. Get what you want, right now. That temptation got shoppers like Amelia Schmarzo into some money trouble. Back in 2022, she maxed out her credit card after a month of buying now and paying later. She’s not alone. Buy now, pay later is everywhere now. And you can finance almost anything with it. Your clothes, your furniture … even your lips. But if these companies don’t charge interest, how do they make money? In short, people buy more stuff using these services and so sellers are willing to pay up. Which makes buy now, pay later, something of a threat to credit card companies. Cue the tussle for your impulse-buying clicks. Today on the show, we find out how the companies work, who’s most likely to use these services and who’s getting a good deal. And a warning: those little loans will soon be on your credit report. Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was produced by Emma Peaslee, engineered by Josh Newell and edited by Molly Messick. Our update was reported by Vito Emanuel, produced by Willa Rubin, engineered by Gilly Moon and edited by our executive producer, Alex Goldmark. Music: Universal Music Production - "Retro Funk," "Comin' Back For More," "Reactive Emotion," and "EAT." Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

When people in Maine prisons started getting laptops to use in their cells for online classes and homework, it sparked this new idea. Could they have laptops in their cells to work remotely for real outside world jobs, too??? And get real outside world wages? Today on the show, we have reporting from Maine Public Radio’s Susan Sharon about a new experiment in prisons: remote jobs … paying fair market wages, for people who are incarcerated. Listen to Susan’s original reporting here: - In Maine, prisoners are thriving in remote jobs and other states are taking notice - Cracking the code: How technology and education are changing life in Maine prisons Related episodes: - Fine and Punishment - Getting Out Of Prison Sooner - The Prisoner's Solution - Paying for the Crime Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was hosted by Sarah Gonzalez with reporting from Susan Sharon. It was produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kesler with reporting help from Vito Emanuel. It was edited by Jess Jiang, fact-checked by Sierra Juarez, and engineered by Robert Rodriguez, with help from Patrick Murray. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money’s executive producer. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

People in the U.S. are feeling the financial squeeze, in part because of rising inflation, higher consumer prices and slowing job growth. The Indicator from Planet Money is tackling a special series on the rising cost of living. Today, two stories from that series. First, what’s making ticket prices go up? We look at the economics behind the ticket market and how “reseller bots” are wreaking all sorts of havoc. The industry is not a fan, and yet they do serve an economic function. And… why pet care costs have surged. It comes down to unique skills, people’s love for their pets and something called the “Baumol effect.” Related episodes: The Vet Clinic Chow Down What Do Private Equity Firms Actually Do? Kid Rock vs. The Scalpers Ticket scalpers: The real ticket masters Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode is hosted by Darian Woods, Adrian Ma, and Wailin Wong. These episodes of The Indicator were originally produced by Cooper Katz McKim and engineered by Robert Rodriguez. They were fact-checked by Sierra Juarez. Kate Concannon is The Indicator’s editor. Alex Goldmark is the Executive Producer. Music: NPR Source Audio - "Wow and Flutter,” “The Groove Carpenter,” and "I Need You" Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

This week’s SNAP crisis is just a preview. Tucked inside the giant tax-cut and spending bill signed by President Donald Trump this summer are enormous cuts to SNAP: Who qualifies, how much they get, and who foots the bill for the program. That last part is a huge change. For the entire history of the food stamp program, the federal government has paid for all the benefits that go out. States pay part of the cost of administering it, but the food stamp money has come entirely from federal taxpayers. This bill shifts part of the costs to states. How much will states have to pay? It depends. The law ties the amount to a statistic called the Payment Error Rate -- the official measure of accuracy -- whether states are giving recipients either too much, or too little, in food stamp money. On today’s show, we go to Oregon to meet the bureaucrats on the front lines of getting that error rate down -- and ask Governor Tina Kotek what’s going to happen if they can’t. Looking for hunger-relief resources? Try here. Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+. Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was hosted by Nick Fountain and Jeff Guo. It was produced by James Sneed and Willa Rubin, edited by Marianne McCune and Jess Jiang, fact-checked by Sierra Juarez, and engineered by Debbie Daughtry and Robert Rodriguez. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money’s executive producer. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

For decades, the U.S. has been the single biggest source of remittances worldwide. A remittance is a transfer of money, typically from an immigrant to their family in their country of origin. But we are in the middle of a big, loud and very public immigration crackdown on those who are here without legal status. And that crackdown is disrupting the global remittance market. People who have come to the U.S. from a handful of countries — especially some Central American countries — have been sending more money back to their countries of origin. And it’s a bit of a puzzle because … you might think the opposite would be the case. As immigration plummets, we try to figure out why remittances are surging in some countries, and not others. And we learn why a surge in money sent home inspires joy — but also fear. Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Register here for our live Zoom event about our board game project on November 1st. This episode was hosted by Erika Beras and Greg Rosalsky. It was produced by Luis Gallo with help from Sam Yellowhorse Kesler. It was edited by Marianne McCune with fact-checking help from Sierra Juarez. It was engineered by Patrick Murray. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money’s executive producer. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

The U.S. Constitution famously outlaws “cruel and unusual punishments.” But there's another, far more obscure part of the Constitution called the Excessive Fines Clause, which basically says that the fine has to fit the crime. So far, the Supreme Court has been pretty mysterious about what that means. But for Ken Jouppi, the fate of his $95,000 plane hinges on it. Ken is a bush pilot. He used to run an air taxi service in Fairbanks, Alaska. In 2012, police caught one of Ken’s passengers with a six-pack of Budweiser in her luggage. Over that six-pack, Ken was convicted of bootlegging. As punishment, he was ordered to forfeit his $95,000 Cessna. The Supreme Court is now considering whether to take Ken’s case. And what’s at stake here is more than just a plane. Hanging in the balance is an increasingly popular — and controversial — business model for criminal justice. More on economics and the law: - Fine and punishment - The prisoner's solution - Paying for the crime - Rescues at sea, and how to make a fortune Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Today’s episode was produced by James Sneed and Sam Yellowhorse Kesler with help from Luis Gallo. It was edited by Jess Jiang, fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Ko Tagasugi Chernovin with help from Robert Rodriguez. Planet Money's executive producer is Alex Goldmark. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

When TikTok videos started to go viral on Instagram and Reddit, TikTok turned to professional sound designers to protect their content. More and more companies are paying to develop a “sonic identity” – a series of sounds, songs, and micro-jingles to help maintain a unified brand. In this episode, in conjunction with the sound design podcast Twenty Thousand Hertz, we hear the backstory to possibly the most successful audio branding campaigns in history. It’s a tale of guerilla marketing and the power of sonic suggestion. Pre-order the Planet Money book, and get a free gift / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts.Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This adapted episode was hosted by Kenny Malone and Dallas Taylor. It was produced by Casey Emmerling and James Sneed. The episode was edited by Jess Jiang. Alex Goldmark is our Executive Producer. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Bjarne Caesar Skinnerup works as a maritime pilot in the straits of Denmark. That means he’s used to seeing oil tankers. But after the start of the war in Ukraine, the tankers started getting weird. They were flying flags he’d never seen before. They were old, very old, though many had taken on new names. Something was off. He’d stumbled on a shadow fleet of hundreds of tankers ferrying sanctioned oil out of Russia … with near impunity. Today on the show, how those ships are transforming the global oil market and fueling the war in Ukraine. And why this all might be a financial and environmental disaster waiting to happen. Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift. / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was hosted by Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi and Daniel Ackerman. It was produced by Willa Rubin and edited by Marianne McCune. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Kwesi Lee and Cena Loffredo. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

In 1975, New York City ran out of money. For a decade it had managed to pay for its hundreds of thousands of city employees and robust social services by taking on billions of dollars in debt. But eventually investors were no longer willing to lend the city any more money. New York teetered on the edge of bankruptcy — the city shuttered more than a dozen firehouses, teachers went on strike and garbage piled up in the streets. Rescuing the city required the cooperation of the state of New York, the banks, the city workers unions, giant property owners and … the White House. But President Gerald Ford was adamantly opposed to bailing out NYC, prompting the famous New York Daily News headline — “Ford to City: Drop Dead.” On today’s show, the story of a group of private citizens who were deputized by the state of New York to try to save the city’s finances. Led by investment banker Felix Rohatyn, the group had to put together a grand bargain that everyone would be willing to agree to, and to come up with the billions of dollars the city needed to survive. Pre-order the Planet Money book and get a free gift / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. Today’s episode of Planet Money was hosted by Keith Romer and Nick Fountain. It was produced by James Sneed with help from Sam Yellowhorse Kesler and Julia Ritchey. It was edited by Jess Jiang, fact-checked by Sierra Juarez, and engineered by Debbie Daughtry and Cena Loffredo. Our executive producer is Alex Goldmark. Special Thanks: Denis Coleman, David Schleicher, Liall Clarke, Kevin Hennigan and everyone at Classical King FM in Seattle. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

The U.S. government spends a ton of money, on everything from Medicare to roads to defense. In fact, it spends way more than it takes in. So…it borrows money, in the bond market. By selling U.S. Treasurys, basically IOUs with periodic interest payments. And for decades, people have loved to invest in Treasurys, for their safety and security. But lately, Treasurys have started to look riskier. In part because, in recent years, there’s a new buyer at the table: hedge funds, those loosely-regulated financial companies that invest on behalf of institutions and wealthy clients. They have started doing a special trade called the “Treasury basis trade.” And, depending on who you talk to, this trade could destabilize our entire financial system. Or help the U.S. government borrow more money. Or both. On the latest episode: how and why are hedge funds getting into Treasurys? We follow how a Treasury travels from the nest into the hands of hedge funds. And we speak to someone from one of those hedge funds, about what they’re doing and why. Pre-order the Planet Money book, and get a free gift / Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode was hosted by Mary Childs and Kenny Malone. It was produced by Willa Rubin and edited by Marianne McCune. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Jimmy Keeley and Cena Loffredo. Alex Goldmark is our Executive Producer. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy

Pre-order the Planet Money book here for your free gift. Our sister show, The Indicator, is chronicling the evolving business of crime for its Vice Week series. Today, we bring to you two cases of crime in the age of AI. First, cybercriminals are using our own voices against us. Audio deepfake scams are picking up against individuals but also against businesses. We hear from a bank on how they’re adapting defenses, and find out how the new defenses are a game of AI vs AI. Then, we move over to the stock market to witness AI market manipulation. A new breed of trading bots behave differently. They could collude with each other, even without human involvement or instruction, so researchers are asking how to think about blame, and regulation in a world of more sophisticated trading bots. That’s assuming regulators could even keep up with the tech in the first place. Indicator Vice Series Head to The Indicator from Planet Money podcast feed for the latest on the Indicator Vice Series including an episode on data breaches . If you don’t already subscribe, check it out. Each episode explains one slice of the economy connected to the news recently, always in 10 minutes or less. Subscribe to Planet Money+ Listen free: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the NPR app or anywhere you get podcasts. Facebook / Instagram / TikTok / Our weekly Newsletter. This episode is hosted by Darian Woods, Adrian Ma, and Wailin Wong. These episodes of The Indicator were originally produced by Cooper Katz McKim and engineered by Robert Rodriguez. They were fact-checked by Sierra Juarez. Kate Concannon is The Indicator’s editor. Alex Goldmark is the Executive Producer. Music: NPR Source Audio - “Diamond High” Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoices NPR Privacy Policy