Untidy Faith

Join Kate and Liz Charlotte Grant as they explore how to approach Scripture when traditional, literal interpretations no longer serve believers who are deconstructing or reframing their faith. Grant shares her journey of finding new ways to engage with biblical texts through literary analysis, diverse commentators, and interdisciplinary connections. Liz Charlotte Grant is an award-winning essayist, author of the Empathy List substack, and her debut book, a personal, interdisciplinary commentary on the book of Genesis, Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the Bible is available now. Topics Covered: * How traditional methods of reading the Bible, especially within White American Evangelicalism, have been limiting and sometimes harmful, and why new approaches are needed for those reframing their faith * The importance of diverse voices in biblical interpretation, particularly from women, people of color, and other historically excluded groups who offer fresh perspectives beyond the dominant white male theological tradition * Grant's creative approach to Genesis through interdisciplinary connections—linking biblical stories to art, science, and literature to illuminate scripture in new ways * The distinction between factual accuracy and deeper truth in scripture, and why approaching the Bible through a literary lens can reveal profound insights without requiring historical literalism * Practical advice for those wanting to re-engage with the Bible after deconstruction, including starting with commentaries, trusting your own reading, and creating a diverse "table" of interpretive voices Grant's book uses creative writing and non-traditional sources to approach Genesis with fresh eyes, demonstrating how scripture can remain meaningful even after one's relationship with the Bible has fundamentally changed. Timestamps: 01:12 Reframing Faith and Reading the Bible 01:49 Challenges of Traditional Biblical Interpretation 04:43 The Importance of Diverse Perspectives 10:18 Creative and Literary Approaches to the Bible 11:19 Truth vs. Historicity in Biblical Texts 17:12 Why Return to the Bible? 18:06 The Making of the Bible: A Complex Process 19:57 The Sinai Sisters: Manuscript Hunters 23:19 Catherine Bushnell: A Pioneer for Women in the Bible 26:41 Judith Butler: An Artist's Voice 32:24 Reengaging with the Bible: Tools and Tips This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this enlightening episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd sits down with Jennifer Layte to explore the concept of stages of faith. Despite many Christians being taught that faith is static or linear, Jennifer shares insights from both James Fowler's modern framework and Teresa of Avila's 16th-century "Interior Castle" to help listeners understand that spiritual growth naturally involves distinct phases and transitions. This conversation offers comfort and clarity for those navigating their own changing relationship with Jesus, especially during periods of deconstruction or spiritual uncertainty. About Jennifer: Jennifer A. G. Layte is a pastor, author of two published novels, and founder of The Pilgrimage—a Jesus-centered online spiritual formation community, created especially to tend to the stories of those who have been hurt by the church or are otherwise struggling in their faith. Jennifer’s training and certification as an Advanced Practice Board Certified Chaplain, a spiritual director, and an ordained pastor have provided her with unique opportunities to work with diverse (on just about every metric) groups of people. The human stories she carries and the ways she has found to shepherd people through the difficult parts of those stories directly influence her writing. Meanwhile, her formal background in literature and theology gives her imaginative ways of retelling the stories of the Bible and of others, encouraging people to live within their own stories better. Jennifer and her husband Paul live in New England with their two adorable rescue dogs, an impressive garden, and, to their fascination but not always delight, an astonishing array of wildlife. Website and Social Media Links Jennifer’s Book Follower https://jenniferaglayte.com https://the-pilgrimage.org https://linktr.ee/jenniferaglayte Topics Covered: * Castles, Mansions, and Soul Work: Discover the fascinating historical frameworks for understanding faith transitions, from a 16th century nun's "Interior Castle" to modern psychological approaches * "I'm Not Sure God Is Anywhere": Why those terrifying spiritual dry spells might actually be doorways to deeper faith, and how knowing about stages can help you not panic when they arrive * When Church Activism Isn't Enough: Jennifer reveals the significant transition that many Western Christians are experiencing today, and why moving beyond the "busy doing" phase often feels so disruptive * Same Beliefs, Different Grip: How you might end up believing many of the same things but holding them completely differently—and why Jennifer went from firmly opposing women pastors to becoming one herself * Loving Across the Divide: Practical wisdom for those moments when you want to scream "Oh my God, what are these people thinking?"—and how to create meaningful connections with those in different faith stages Timestamps: 00:47 Stages of Faith: An Overview 14:11 Challenges in Faith Transitions 20:58 The Importance of Growth in Faith 22:03 Evolving Beliefs and Perspectives 28:37 Balancing Tradition and Change 29:59 Engaging with Jesus in Faith 32:49 Loving Others in Different Stages 35:07 Grace in Imperfection This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Untidy Faith, we dive into a thoughtful conversation with MaryB. Safrit about the valuable perspectives and insights that LGBTQ+ Christians bring to faith communities. MaryB. shares her personal journey and wisdom on how straight Christians can learn from queer believers to create more inclusive and authentic expressions of Christian community. This conversation explores misconceptions, reimagines church structures, and highlights the rich theological contributions that emerge from diverse experiences of faith. Topics Covered: * Misunderstandings and Misconceptions: Mary B discusses common misconceptions straight Christians have about LGBTQ+ believers, including assumptions about how queer Christians approach scripture and theology * Intimacy, Friendship, and Boundaries: How queer Christians have developed nuanced understandings of intimacy, attraction, and friendship that challenge harmful purity culture narratives and can benefit all Christians * Found Family and Chosen Community: The rich tradition of "found family" in queer communities offers powerful models for Christian community that transcend the nuclear family focus of many churches * Creating Truly Inclusive Churches: Practical insights for making church spaces welcoming through clarity, co-creation, and valuing all members beyond their perceived "usefulness" to church programs * Challenging Church Hierarchies: How moving away from corporate/business models of church toward more organic communities creates space for diverse gifts and voices Timestamps: 02:27 Misconceptions About LGBTQIA+ Believers 05:12 Personal Journey and Challenges 09:41 Lessons from the LGBTQIA+ Community 17:36 Evolving Concepts of Family and Belonging 28:57 Inclusivity in Churches About MaryB. Safrit: MaryB. Safrit is a New York City-based writer, merch maker, relationship coach, and host of the Found Family podcast. She is passionate about creating spaces and resources for folks who feel like the church doesn't know what to do with them. MaryB. is your friendly neighborhood bisexual and recovering people-pleaser who is currently in her goblin era. Follow her on Instagram and TikTok @maryb.safrit, and get on her Substack list at marybsafrit.substack.com Website and Social Media Links * https://www.marybsafrit.com/ * https://www.instagram.com/maryb.safrit/ * https://www.tiktok.com/@maryb.safrit * https://www.marybsafrit.com/shop This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

Join us as we dive into 2 Samuel 17, examining the complex power dynamics between Absalom and David, the manipulative counsel given by advisors, and the troubling absence of God's voice amid human schemes for revenge and power. Topics Covered: * The contrast between Ahithophel and Hushai's advice to Absalom, and how manipulation through vanity and insecurity shaped Absalom's fateful decision * The recurring theme of women being unnamed and used as tools in men's power struggles, drawing parallels to other biblical stories of women subverting authority * How cycles of violence perpetuate when justice becomes corrupted by vengeance and personal agendas * The significant silence of God throughout this chapter, and what that silence might tell us about divine perspective on human power struggles * The way Absalom's initially pure motives for justice (regarding his sister Tamar) became corrupted through his pursuit of power and vengeance Timestamps: 01:06 Recap of 2 Samuel 17 01:51 Discussion on Absalom's Coup 05:58 Analyzing the Role of Women in 2 Samuel 08:41 Theological Reflections and Modern Parallels 25:55 Hospitality and Symbolic Significance in the Wilderness 41:11 Takeaways and Final Thoughts This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, Tiffany Bluhm returns to the Untidy Faith Podcast to help us reframe self-care as an essential component of both personal wholeness and communal flourishing. Moving beyond the commercialized wellness industry, Tiffany offers a powerful perspective on how caring for ourselves in a world that doesn't is both biblical and necessary for creating meaningful social change. Drawing from biblical women and historical examples, she challenges the glorification of burnout and self-sacrifice prevalent in American church culture. In this episode we discuss: * How the American church has often discouraged self-care by celebrating and congratulating women who spend themselves until there's nothing left * The false dichotomy between self-care and self-sacrifice, and why they're actually "a tension to be managed, not solved" * How biblical women like Miriam demonstrate that self-care isn't a luxury only for the privileged but a necessary component of liberation * The powerful example of interned Japanese-American women during WWII who practiced communal self-care as resistance * Practical steps for beginning a self-care journey, including identifying what's missing in your life and what you need to let go of About Tiffany Bluhm Tiffany Bluhm is a speaker and writer with more than fifteen years of experience in ministry and nonprofit leadership. She is the author of The Women We’ve Been Waiting For, Prey Tell, She Dreams, and Never Alone. Her work is at the intersection of faith and justice, and her writing has been featured in Publishers Weekly, Sojourners, the YouVersion Bible app, and more. She lives in the Pacific Northwest with her husband and two sons. Timestamps: 00:51 Challenges of Self Care in the American Church 01:33 Redefining Self Care 03:49 Historical Examples of Self Care 07:08 Communal Flourishing Through Self Care 12:52 Practical Steps for Self Care 27:48 Supporting Others in Their Self Care Journey 29:36 Where to Find Tiffany Online This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, Kate explores the Wesleyan Quadrilateral as a valuable framework for reading and interpreting scripture. This approach offers a more balanced and holistic way to engage with the Bible, especially for those who are deconstructing or reconstructing their faith. Kate shares how this framework has transformed her own relationship with scripture, providing a more nuanced understanding that honors both the text and our lived experiences. Topics Covered: * The four components of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral: Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience * How Scripture can be a primary authority without being the sole authority * Why acknowledging our traditions (whether formal or informal) enhances our biblical understanding * The importance of bringing reason, critical thinking, and modern knowledge to our reading * How personal and communal experiences enrich our interpretation of texts Timestamps: 00:29 Exploring the Wesleyan Quadrilateral 03:07 Scripture: The Primary Source 05:58 Tradition: Learning from the Past 12:01 Reason: Embracing Critical Thinking 17:05 Experience: Personal and Communal Insights 21:27 Applying the Wesleyan Quadrilateral This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd is joined by Trey Ferguson and Robert Monson from the Three Black Men crew for a thoughtful conversation about white supremacy in deconstruction spaces. They explore how patterns of white supremacy continue to manifest even after people leave conservative religious environments, and discuss practical ways to build more liberative communities. Let’s examine how these patterns affect our interactions and envision a world beyond the current systems. Topics Covered: * How white supremacy manifests in deconstruction spaces, often appearing as simply "an exchange of certainties" * The tendency to platform and center white voices even in progressive spaces * Practical steps toward dismantling white supremacy, including diversifying whose voices we listen to * The importance of being in community with people who experience the world differently * Moving beyond resistance to envisioning and creating a world beyond white supremacy About Our Guests: Trey Ferguson is a Miami-Dade County based minister, writer, and podcaster, and the creator of the New Living Translation, the author of Theologizin’ Bigger, and pastor of Intention Church. Robert Monson is a PhD student, co-director of enfleshed, and host of Black Coffee and Theology. He writes and studies theology- usually at the intersection of disability, soft masculinity, as well as black and womanist theology, and composes and plays music. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

Content Warning: Sexual assault, violence Power, betrayal, and justice collide as David’s reign looks like it’s unraveling, and as he grasps for allies, we see just how far some will go to keep what they believe to be theirs. Join us to explore how systems of power perpetuate cycles of harm — as in the case of Mephibosheth and the women left behind — and how empires shape the people within them (intentionally and unintentionally). And how do the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount offer us an alternative pattern to follow? Timestamps: 01:46 Recap of Mephibosheth and Ziba 03:42 David's Encounter with Shimei 04:29 Absalom's Strategy and Betrayal 05:33 Reflections on Justice and Injustice 14:25 The Cycle of Harm and Power 30:29 The Role of Disabled People in Scripture 36:18 Takeaways This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd welcomes Erin Moon, a writer, podcaster, and storyteller, to discuss the nuances of faith, doubt, and the many questions that arise along the journey. They explore why many feel uncomfortable expressing doubts about their faith and discuss the importance of creating safe spaces for curiosity and questions. Erin shares her personal experiences and insights, highlighting the role of relationships, trust, and hope in balancing certainty and mystery in faith. The episode also touches on the practical resources and strategies that have helped both Erin and Kate navigate their spiritual journeys and maintain hope in the midst of doubts and complexities. About Erin Moon: Erin Hicks Moon is a writer, podcaster, and storyteller. She is the Resident Bible Scholar and host of the Faith Adjacent podcast, and senior creative at Podcast Media Group. She lives in Birmingham, Alabama, with her husband and three children. Website and Social Media Links https://www.erinhmoon.com/ Instagram - @erinhmoon The Swipe Up newsletter: https://erinhmoon.substack.com/ Upcoming book, "I've Got Questions" from Baker Books: https://bakerbookhouse.com/products/598796 Timestamps: 02:09 The Fear of Expressing Doubts 05:19 The Urgency and Privilege in Faith Discussions 06:53 Doubt as a Sign of Weak Faith? 12:32 Constructive vs. Destructive Doubt 16:20 The Impact of Doubt on Faith Institutions 20:32 Navigating the Messy Middle of Faith 21:12 Helpful Practices and Resources 23:53 Expanding Perspectives on Faith 28:44 Balancing Certainty and Mystery 31:57 Maintaining Hope in Faith Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd delves into the nuanced and often controversial topic of pronouns for God. Addressing the limitations and constraints of language, Kate explores how our choice of words and metaphors shape our understanding of God. She makes a compelling case for using more inclusive language to reflect the Christian concept of the Trinity and to avoid unintentional exclusions. Kate also discusses the importance of theological imagination and how exposure to diverse theological perspectives can enrich one's faith journey. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that challenges traditional views and encourages thoughtful contemplation on how we describe and relate to the divine. 00:29 The Controversial Topic of Pronouns for God 01:24 Limitations and Impact of Language on God 05:18 Personal Journey and Language Choices 10:58 Theological Imagination and Diverse Perspectives 12:53 A Call to Thoughtful Language Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd dives into an in-depth conversation with Jonny Morrison, co-lead pastor at Missio Dei in Salt Lake City and author of 'Prodigal Gospel.' They discuss the complexity of understanding the gospel, reflecting on how traditional narratives often emphasize shame and opposition rather than celebration and unconditional love. Jonny shares his journey of evolving his understanding of the gospel, the concept of repentance and forgiveness through the lens of the parable of the prodigal son, and the importance of healing our images of God. This thoughtful dialogue encourages listeners to reconsider and reframe their perception of the gospel in a more inclusive and restorative manner. Jonny Morrison is co-lead pastor at Missio Dei in Salt Lake City and the author of two books Light as Air and Prodigal Gospel. Jonny’s work, writing, and passion is to create spaces where everyone can belong whether that’s through writing about Jesus, creating community gardens, or pouring wine at backyard dinner parties. Jonny has a Masters in ancient language and doctorate in theology and in his free time, Jonny loves to fly fish, cook for his friends, explore Utah with his wife Tory, and pretend like he understands wine. Find out more at jonnyis.com Website and Social Media Links Jonnyis.com Instagram @Jonny.is https://jonnymorrison.substack.com/ Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction to Untidy Faith Podcast 00:29 Meet Johnny Morrison: Co-Lead Pastor and Author 01:34 Understanding the Gospel Through the Prodigal Son 03:18 Personal Reflections on Faith and Evangelism 06:30 Reframing the Gospel: From Transactional to Relational 10:57 The Parable of the Prodigal Son: A Deeper Dive 21:46 Practical Implications of the Gospel 34:42 Conclusion and Book Promotion Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

In this episode, we dissect the political and familial intricacies of Absalom's coup against his father, King David -- shedding light on the manipulation, subterfuge, and fractured relationships that underpin this biblical narrative. Then we discuss the ethical implications of David's actions, the oft-overlooked experiences of the concubines left behind, and the broader impact on the people of Israel before we draw parallels to contemporary leadership challenges in religious communities ... emphasizing the importance of addressing traumas and injustices to prevent long-lasting harm and discord. Timestamps: 01:26 Absalom's Conspiracy and David's Response 03:22 Analyzing Absalom's Strategy 06:21 David's Leadership and Its Consequences 16:28 The Role of Religion in David's Strategy 23:04 The Impact on the People and Kingdom 40:09 Takeaways and Reflections 44:53 Closing Remarks and Where to Find Us Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

In this episodes we discuss ... Pricelis Perreaux-Dominguez (MSW, MSEd) is a truth-teller and space builder committed to helping the Body of Christ be healthy and holy. She is the founder and CEO of Full Collective, creator of the annual Sowers Summit, and host of the Being a Sanctuary podcast. Pricelis holds master's degrees in community-based leadership and social work, and she is currently pursuing a master of arts in biblical and theological studies from Denver Seminary. Pricelis’ first book ‘Being a Sanctuary: The Radical Way for the Body of Christ to be Sacred, Soft, and Safe’ comes out on September 10th. She is a proud Black Latina (Dominicana) born and raised in New York City, where she resides with her husband and son. You can find her on Instagram @pricelispd. Find Pricelis Online: @pricelispd pricelispd.com wearefullcollective.com Email list link: https://view.flodesk.com/pages/6215291dd328ec5152cf122e Book: https://www.pricelispd.com/basbook Timestamps: 02:05 Discussing the Crisis in the Church 06:18 Reactions to Church Crises 10:33 Personal Reflection and Healing 20:47 Solutions for Churches 26:03 Importance of Trauma-Informed Care Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

Join me to explore the true nature of biblical prophecy and challenge the common dispensationalist view of prophecy as future telling. Through examples from the Hebrew Bible and Revelation, we will see how prophecy focuses on calling people back to God's covenant and priorities, offering conditional future insight, and comfort during exile. This episode will encourage you to rethink the spiritual gift of prophecy as confronting hard truths rather than predicting the future. Time Stamps: 00:00 Introduction to Untidy Faith Podcast 00:29 Understanding Prophecy in Dispensationalist Circles 02:00 The Role of Prophets in the Hebrew Bible 03:39 Conditional Prophecies and Their Outcomes 06:52 Prophecy Beyond Destruction: Comfort and Hope 09:41 Revelation and Eschatological Future 11:48 Rethinking Prophecy: Truth Telling vs. Future Telling 13:48 Conclusion and Call to Action Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

Listen in for a discussion with Dr. Camden Morgante about the harmful myths of purity culture, its lasting impact, and how to heal from the associated shame and trauma. They also explore ways to create healthier conversations around sexuality for the next generation. Dr. Camden Morgante is a licensed psychologist with nearly 15 years of experience as a therapist and college professor. She owns a private therapy practice and is a writer, speaker, and coach on purity culture recovery, egalitarianism, and faith reconstruction. Her first book, Recovering from Purity Culture, will be published in October 2024 by Baker Books. Dr. Camden lives in Knoxville, Tennessee with her husband and their daughter and son. Learn more about Camden on her website, www.drcamden.com Time Stamps: 00:00 Welcome to the Untidy Faith Podcast 01:30 Defining Purity Culture 02:26 Harmful Myths of Purity Culture 05:41 Trauma and Purity Culture 09:14 Gender Differences in Purity Culture 13:04 Media's Role in Promoting Purity Culture 15:41 Healing from Sexual Shame 21:08 Support Systems for Recovery 24:52 Parenting Beyond Purity Culture 29:13 Conclusion and Resources Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

There's nothing like saying you're deconstructing to get people to call you all kinds of things -- heretic, apostate, false teacher. But I find these are easy "insults" with few who use them actually applying them correctly. So join me in this episode for ... Time Stamps: 00:00 Welcome to the Untidy Faith Podcast 00:29 Understanding Deconstruction and Narrow Faith Paradigms 01:40 Defining Key Terms: Orthodoxy, Heterodoxy, Heresy, Apostasy, and Blasphemy 04:45 Deep Dive into Orthodoxy 11:27 Exploring Heterodoxy 14:29 Heresy: Challenging Core Tenets 16:39 Apostasy: Rejecting Christianity 18:13 Blasphemy: Irreverence Toward Deity 19:40 Conclusion and Final Thoughts 20:58 Closing Remarks and Call to Action Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram