This is Not Therapy

Join me for another incredible conversation with novelist, artist and ultimate shapeshifter, Rob Bell. We discuss his new novel, There's Only One Noon Yeah, naming yourself and then growing out of that name, the many shades of love, including how to keep falling in love with your spouse, and a new definition of that over-used word, enlightenment. Between us we also create an epic piece of performance art, featuring how to turn a tech hiccup into a metaphor for geo-political crisis. It's just a thing we do. Find Rob: Instagram: @realrobbell Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/robbell Buy the book, There's Only One Noon Yeah, from www.robbell.com or in the UK, https://amzn.eu/d/dncGRa4 Find Tina: www.tinasederholm.substack.com www.tinasederholm.com Instagram: @tinasederholm This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Let me tell you a story… One rainy Thursday in March, I was driving my friend and fellow poet, Ciaran Hodgers to Oxford train station. He’d performed at my gig, Everything’s Working Out Poetically, the night before and we had stayed up too late, drinking whiskey and eating M&S Pistachio and Almond cookies. We started the 40 minute drive by simultaneously saluting a single magpie and laughing at how we both did it without missing a beat in the conversation. A conversation about poetry and the seasonal nature of creativity. A conversation that made me brave enough to share a secret. Namely, that after my book, This Is Not Therapy, came out in 2021, I was unable to write a poem for about year, or if I did, it was a tired facsimile of an old idea. It was as if I had wrung everything creative out of myself and put it into that book. But this time, the spark was not coming back. I’d begun to believe that my time as poet was over. It felt like a death. Then in early 2023, Ciaran sent me a poetry manuscript to edit. It was for his upcoming collection, Solastagia. In particular, there were three poems central to the collection that he couldn’t unwind. There was something about working with that material, around the intersection of mental health and the natural world and what it means to be part of that ecology, that started to bring me back to my creative self. I didn’t tell him that at the time - it would not have looked professional - but now, in the car, I could thank him for being the catalyst for me falling in love with the process of poet-ing again. You know, he said, I had the same experience of creative grief after my first book, Cosmocartography. How did you bring yourself back? I asked as we turned into the station car park. It’s a bit of a story, he said. And I have a train to catch. Hold that thought, I said. We should record this. I think there are other people out there who would find it useful. And here it is. One of the best conversations I have ever had about dealing with the fallow times. Seeing creativity as seasonal, not a ceaseless conveyor belt of productivity. Seeing our creative selves as land that needs time to recover, and how to do that in our hectic, hustle-obsessed world. May it bring you the hope and nourishment that it did for me. Care to join us at The Mourning Pages? More info and tickets here More about Ciaràn. Buy his books here Thanks for reading This Is Not Therapy with Tina Sederholm! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

After This Is Not Therapy was a book and a show but before it became a Substack, it was a podcast. A podcast that celebrated finding the ‘marvellous in the mundane.’ The podcast has been on an extended holiday for reasons that are too boring and varied to go through here but I am glad to say that all the episodes are now available on Substack! Hurrah! Also we have a new bonus episode. It’s the edited highlights of our Spring edition of Everything’s Working Out Poetically, and as most of you are not in Oxford, it will give you an experience of a live poetry show like no other. It features poets Rehema Njambi, Paul Askew and our superstar headliner Ciarán Hodgers as well as myself and speed poet, Clare Bold. So if you would like to indulge in a profound, heartfelt, sometimes explicit, often silly exploration of Love, listen on. The next edition of Everything’s Working Out Poetically will be on Sunday 13th October at the Old Fire Station Oxford. If you would like to join us, you can buy a ticket here. CW: Explicit material, sex, strong language This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S3E5 Everything’s Working Out…Poetically This week’s episode features edited highlights of Everything’s Working Out Poetically, recorded the the Old Fire Station in Oxford, November 14th 2023, which asked, How do you makes sense of a world that’s more chaotic than ever? With poetry, of course! Join Tina Sederholm and her gang of spoken word legends, including Danny Chivers, Clare Bold and Em Pritchard Featuring poetry pop-culture powerhouse and UK Poetry Slam Champion Tyrone Lewis, to celebrate the Oxford launch of his latest collection 2Black 2Furious. REFERENCES Tina Sederholm Poems: 42nd World Congress of Poets Life Choices from the collection This is Not Therapy Reddress from the collection Everything Wrong With You Is Beautiful Performers Danny Chivers @chiversdanny Clare Bold @clareybold Em Pritchard https://www.facebook.com/emily.pritchard.376 Tyrone Lewis https://www.facebook.com/TyroneLewis22 Buy Tyrone’s book 2Black2Furious here https://tyronelewisspokenword.bigcartel.com/ Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S3E4 Where’d You Park Your Spaceship? Sometimes you take a risk and the risk comes off. I asked one of my all time heroes, New York Times bestselling author Rob Bell, if he would come on the podcast. And he said ‘Yep.’ What?! On my little old podcast? We talk creativity and resistance, creative resistance, and the healing power of bread. Oh and about his new novel, ‘Where’d you park your spaceship?’ A truly magical conversation, I’m so glad you can hear it too. REFERENCES Rob Bell https://robbell.com/ Where’d you park your spaceship? On Amazon David Whyte https://davidwhyte.com Poem: Loaves and Fishes, from River Flow Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S3E3 Do This One Thing Every Day Early career writers often get the advice to ‘Write Every Day’. Adverts for fitness and self-improvement products exhort you to ‘Just do this for 10 minutes a day and your belly/ bank balance/life will change forever.’ But is it actually sustainable to do something every day? Let’s find out. REFERENCES Natalie Goldberg https://nataliegoldberg.com/ Adriene Mishler www.yogawithadriene.com Steven Pressfield https://stevenpressfield.com/books/ Colson Whitehead https://www.colsonwhitehead.com/ Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S3E2 Winners Never Quit, Quitters Never Win What motivational quotes really get up your nose? In a slight departure from our normal format, I’m going to spend the next few episodes exploring common bits of life advice that are supposed to be uplifting and inspiring but can equally cause frustration. And the first one is…Winners Never Quit and Quitters Never Win. Thank you to Rick Dove for this suggestion. If you have a saying that you want me to deconstruct in an amusing yet nuanced way, let me know! REFERENCES Kenny Rogers - The Gambler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hx4gdlfamo Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S3E1 Treat Your Money Like Your Lover This is Not Therapy is back for a third season, and yet again I’m kicking off with an off-piste episode where, instead of the usual format, I interview a fascinating individual to set the tone for the rest of the season. This time I am talking to my good friend Ivonne Senn about our relationship with money. Uh Oh… If thinking about money, handling money or just paying the bills is a source of stress for you , I highly recommend listening to our conversation. I don’t think I know anyone who has a more grounded, humane and functional relationship with finances. And it’s not scary. She gives actual advice that you can implement today. Imagine feeling better about money right now. Wouldn’t that be lovely. You can find Ivonne at: www.ivonnesenn.de https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivonnesenn Or email her directly hallo@ivonnesenn.de REFERENCES Rob Bell https://robbell.com/ Do What You Love, the Money Will Follow by Marsha Sinetar https://amzn.eu/d/2eHqr2W Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S2E10 Read Hitchhikers! Do you have a book that you return to over and over again? What is it about that story? Is it getting lost in it that helps, or does it contain some wisdom, some clue that helps you makes sense of a chaotic world. In my early teens and twenties, that book for me was Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. I lost touch with it for a couple of decades, though I’m reply sure there was always a copy on one of my bookshelves. Then, it came back to me at a most unexpected moment. But would it stand the test of time? Featured Poems: Read Hitchhiker’s! and Anyone Could Be Arthur, from the collection This is Not Therapy REFERENCES Douglas Adams Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy GIGS 10th -12th July This Is Not Therapy at Buxton Fringe 15th July Carnworth Fringe at Royal Station Hotel 16th Morecambe Fringe This is Not Therapy at West End Playhouse Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S2E9 Till Debt Us Do Part Money and debt can be triggering at the best of times but during a cost of living crisis? Let’s not even go there. But maybe we should. Maybe it’s time to look those fears in the face, or at least peak between our fingers at them. In 2016, I wrote a show called Till Debt Us Do Part. Now I return to that show, to see if anything in it can calm my current brain weasels. (P.S. make sure you listen until after the credits because Neil has left the best Easter Egg of outtakes ever.) Featured Poem:Two Dresses , from the collection Everything Wrong With You Is Beautiful Excerpts from Till Debt Us Do Part, recorded live at the Wantage Literary Festival, 2016. GIGS 25th June Drafting Table (Oxford Poetry Library) at Gulp Fiction / 10th -12th July This Is Not Therapy at Buxton Fringe 15th July Carnworth Fringe at Royal Station Hotel 16th Morecambe Fringe at West End Playhouse Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S2E8 Memo to Mothers (and Those Who Are Not) Whether you are blessed with child-bearing organs or not, I bet at some point in your life you tussled with yourself about whether to have children. I know I spent most of my twenties trying to avoid having children and then when the countdown to closing of that door began, I spent an inordinate amount of time and tears, trying to come to a definitive decision. Now I’m in my fifties, that door is bolted shut, so here are some stories about being the other side of that decision, and what that means to me about being a ‘woman’. Featured Poems: Memo to Mothers, and Memo to Those Who Are Not Mothers, from the collection This is Not Therapy GIGS 25th June Drafting Table (Oxford Poetry Library) at Gulp Fiction 10th -12th July This Is Not Therapy at Buxton Fringe Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S2E7 Rest: The One that Got Away Ever find yourself saying, ‘I’ll just get that job done and then I’ll have a sit down,’ only to move onto the next task, having possibly put some water in the kettle, but never having made that cup of tea? No? Just me then. Seriously though, how easy do you find it to take a genuine day off, without worrying about that you have coming up next? If you are like me, you might make a right song and dance (or possibly even a show) about it. Featured poem: New Year’s Eve, 2019. REFERENCES Why We Sleep - Matthew Walker https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/why-we-sleep-the-new-science-of-sleep-and-dreams-matthew-walker/1371280?ean=9780141983769 https://www.sleepdiplomat.com/ Rob Bell/ Menuha https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-wmx5c-9729b1 David Whyte tells this story of his conversation with Brother David Stendhal Rast that led up to this quote in many of his recordings but you can also find it in Crossing the Unknown Sea page 128-135, available from https://davidwhyte.com/ Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S2E6 Hello Failure, My Old Friend In a world obsessed with success, Tina makes friends with disappointment, setbacks and the F-word. Featured Poem: Failure, You Make Me Interesting , from the collection Everything Wrong With You Is Beautiful REFERENCES Fat Boy Slim https://www.fatboyslim.net/ ‘Praise you’ (You should definitely watch this if you want to cry with happiness.) Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S2E5 Snow Leopardess and Me Have you ever broken something you loved? Or been broken by it? My first love was horses, and yet by the age of 30, all the joy had gone out of the relationship, and I thought I could never get it back. I was wrong about that. Listen on to find out about the extraordinary set of circumstances that brought me back to my love of horses. REFERENCES https://www.charlielongsdonracing.com/ Snow Leopardess winning the Becher chase in 2021 UPCOMING GIGS Tuesday 11th April, Scribal Gathering, Stony Stratford Wednesday 19th April, This is Not Therapy and Door-Door-Poetry at Old Fire Station Oxford. https://oldfirestation.org.uk/whats-on/this-is-not-therapy-door-to-door-poetry-nationwide/ Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text How do you integrate lifechanging moments back into your everyday world? In fact, how do you return from anything? Tina goes on an unexpected pilgrimage with surprising results. Featured Poems: Revelation, from the collection This is Not Therapy REFERENCES Hotel des Arts https://www.arts-hotel-paris.com/ Rob Bell https://robbell.com/ Monet's Waterlilies (image) https://parisresidencesjamesjoyce.com/2020/09/10/claude-monet-and-his-water-lilies/ GIGS Wednesday 19th April, This is Not Therapy and Door-Door-Poetry at Old Fire Station Oxford. https://oldfirestation.org.uk/whats-on/this-is-not-therapy-door-to-door-poetry-nationwide/ Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S2E3 Miss Coneybeare-Cross’s Composition Competition Why is it, that when you find something you want to do - write a book ,get a new job, get fit etc - your mind instantly comes up with all the reasons why you can’t or shouldn’t? In this week’s episode Tina tells the story of an early brush with resistance and reveals several ways she’s found to dissolve her resistance…well, to just about anything. Featured Poem: I Will Not Make Great Art Today, from the collection Everything Wrong With You Is Beautiful Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here REFERENCES The Artist’s Way - Julia Cameron GIGS Thursday 2nd March, Fire and Dust (+ pre-show workshop), Cafe Morso, Coventry. Free entry. Wednesday 19th April, This is Not Therapy and Door-to-Door Poetry:Nationwide at Old Fire Station Oxford. Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S2 E2. Nellie’s Perfect Nuggets It’s all very well finding the marvellous in mundane yet pleasant things, but what about finding the marvellous in icky things? Tina takes on the challenge in this episode, with the help of Nellie the dog, Liz Gilbert, and a strong dose of toilet humour. Featured Poem: On Marriage, from the collection Everything Wrong With You Is Beautiful Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here GIGS Thursday 2nd March, Fire and Dust (+ pre-show workshop), Cafe Morso, Coventry. Free entry. Wednesday 19th April, This is Not Therapy and Door-to-Door Poetry:Nationwide at Old Fire Station Oxford. REFERENCES Big Magic by Liz Gilbert https://markmanson.net/ Brahma Kumaris Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text Welcome back to series 2 of This Is Not Therapy! In a change from our normal programming, today I interview Eleanor O’Brien, sex positive theatre maker and all round wonderful mensch. We talk about following wildly improbable dreams, making theatre with integrity that normalises pleasure and showing up with joyful vulnerability, and the peaks and pratfalls of performing at the Edinburgh Fringe. So if you are contemplating a wildly outrageous goal of your own this year, or your are somewhere in the trenches, agonising on how you have got so off-course, you will find a lot to resonate with in this episode. You can find Eleanor at https://www.dancenakedcreative.com/ On Patreon https://www.patreon.com/DanceNaked On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dancenaked Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S1E10 Making Friends with Gratitude How do you feel when someone asks you what you are grateful for? It should feel good, right? I struggled with gratitude for years. It felt like a straitjacket imposed from the outside, as something I should be, but because I didn’t feel grateful inside, I must be a bad person. Good thing I sorted that one out then, isn’t it? Featured Poem: How I am held, from the collection This is Not Therapy, recorded live at the Edinburgh Fringe 2022 McCullough and Emmons research into the positive effects of gratitude: https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/giving-thanks-can-make-you-happier Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com

Send us a text S1E9 Who Are You? What do you say when a stranger asks you ‘What do you do?’ Is your job title enough to describe who you are? Or does the answer make you chafe? Tina takes an irreverent look at the labels we give ourselves and asks if they aren’t always a bit too small for us. Featured Poem: Prediction, from the collection Everything Wrong With You Is Beautiful Recorded live at the Cheltenham Poetry Festival, 2017 Connect with Tina: Subscribe to Tina’s monthly newsletter here Website: www.tinasederholm.com Facebook: @tintpodcast @tinasederholmperformer Email: hello@tinasederholm.com If you love the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts here This podcast was developed thanks to a Develop Your Creative Practice grant, from Arts Council England, and through the Podcast Accelerator course available from www.witandwire.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tinasederholm.substack.com