Ditch Diggers

"Genre is a marketing tool, just like a book cover." - Mur Lafferty In this episode of Ditch Diggers, Mur and Ursula rant about genre expectations, marketing, and what happens when you decide that genre isn't for you because you're special. Ursula lists her whales, and Imposter Syndrome doesn't really make a showing when Mur travels. Highlights: - (05:12) Ursula's anxiety over multiple deadlines and projects - (12:45) Mur's recent business trip and the absence of imposter syndrome - (25:30) The ongoing debate about happy endings in romance - (38:15) The role of marketing in shaping reader expectations - (47:50) The challenges of genre classification and reader assumptions - (55:30) How personal growth as a writer often goes unnoticed [podcast_subscribe id="6236"] (This post went live for supporters on June 9, 2025. Join the Fabulists if you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes!) Transcript Links: Stephen KingTana FrenchPiranesiJonathan Strange & Mr Norrell Evergreen Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyFocusmateMur onInstagramYoutube Support viaPatreon! Devo Spice Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"If you want this to be your thing, you got to keep doing the thing." - Ursula Vernon In this episode of Ditch Diggers, Mur and Ursula dive into the chaotic world of writing, sharing their latest projects, travel plans, and ask you if that thing you wanted to say actually is the thing you want to say online. They discuss the SNAFU of the WorldCon AI controversy, the ethical considerations surrounding generative technologies, and whether it matters if the dog dies or not. Highlights: (This post went live for supporters on June 3, 2025. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, join our exclusive community over at Patreon!) Transcript Links: Escape Pod Rune Factory 4Crashlands 2InaturalistWorldconAgatha Christie Evergreen Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyFocusmateMur onInstagramYoutube Support viaPatreon! Devo Spice Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"The best way to survive is to turn everything into hilarity." - Ursula Vernon In this episode we dive into the chaotic world of writing, marketing, and the ups and downs of self-publishing. Mur shares her recent trip to Maryland for Independent Bookstore Day, and Ursula catches us up on Swordheart's launch. Self promotion is hard, ya'll. Highlights: (This post went live for supporters on May 22, 2025. Join the Fabulists if you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes!) Transcript Links: Death of the Author (Game) Stamp Fans (Mur isn't set up there yet, but bookmark that page) Escape Pod Evergreen Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyFocusmateMur onInstagramYoutube Support viaPatreon! Devo Spice Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"If you can tolerate the boring and lonely, then hopefully you'll be rewarded on the other side." - Ursula Vernon In this episode of Ditch Diggers, Mur and Ursula navigate the chaotic world of freelancing, taxes, and the ups and downs of being a writer. They discuss the recent Hugo nominations (two for Ursula, one for Mur!), share insights into their creative processes, and delve into the challenges of working with agents. Chapters: (03:29) Congratulations to Hugo Finalists! (04:06) Several people from the podcast have been nominated for various awards (05:41) Ursula has been working on several projects (21:25) NaNoWriMo reportedly folded due to poor financial decisions (22:03) NaNoWriMo brought hope to authors for decades (28:07) Other writer community options? (30:39) There are many guides on how to get an agent and how to spot a scam (36:02) Agents are all different people. (48:54) How much creative control does the author have over their book (51:25) Where your agent is plugged into the ecosystem of the genre is very important (54:48) How do you know when it's the right agent (01:00:45) Brief side quest with Andrew the plant guy (01:01:53) Ursula's new book hit number five on the New York Times bestseller list (This post went live for supporters on April 21, 2025. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon!) Links: Hugo AwardsCaves of QudDawn of ManSwordheart (#5 on NYT Bestseller List!) Episode Transcript Evergreen Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyFocusmateMur onInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonSubstackDevo Spice Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"Sometimes the best way to survive is to turn everything into hilarity." - Ursula Vernon Transcript S.11 Ep.2 In this episode of Ditch Diggers, join hosts Mur and Ursula as they navigate the chaotic world of freelancing, taxes, and the ups and downs of being a writer. They discuss the recent Hugo nominations, share insights into their creative processes, and delve into the challenges of working with agents. Highlights include: (05:32) Ursula has too many author copies. She's written nearly 50 books (12:30) Let's talk about marketing for SwordHeart (24:09) A lot of your writing happened when you were doing chemo (31:34) Mur wants to talk about newsletters. They constantly vex her. (33:00) When Mur left mailchimp, she didn't export her mailing list (44:58) It's called decision fatigue for a reason (54:26) If you do get the desire to create during this time, do it Links: Tor Publishing Zombies Run Swordheart Evergreen Links: Ursula Vernon/T. Kingfisher Mur Lafferty Mur on Focusmate! Mur on Instagram, Youtube Newsletter, The Hot Mic Support via Patreon! Or Substack! Theme song by Devo Spice Support Local Book Stores! Ditch Diggers credits: theme song by Devo Spice, art by Numbers Ninja, site hosted by Libsyn (or Patreon). April 21, 2024 | Season 11 Ep 2 | murverse.com "Weeping Bunkers and Writing Woes: Surviving the Creative Chaos" by Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"Try to make the world a better place. You personally are not on the hook to fix everything." - Ursula Vernon (This post went live for supporters on January 17, 2025. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!) Transcript S.11 Ep.1 Welcome to Season 11 of Ditch Diggers with Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon! We try to be positive and funny in this episode, but stuff happens. We cover the Neil Gaiman controversy, touch on Ursula's move, and what our goals are this year. Also there's a duck game in the background. We explore the challenges of self-promotion in a post-Twitter world, the art of balancing work with personal life, and the importance of setting achievable goals. Highlights include: Evergreen Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyFocusmateMur onInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonSubstackDevo Spice Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"Editing is where you leave the craft behind and start thinking like a business." - Mur Lafferty "I am the person with the hat." - Ursula Vernon Transcript (This post went live for supporters on January 13, 2025. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!) In this final episode of season six of Ditch Diggers, Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon dive deep into the world of editing. From the trials and tribulations of editing passes to the nuances of hat confidence, Mur and Ursula share their personal experiences and industry insights. Mur shares her recent adventures at World Fantasy Con, including a surprise upgrade experience, while Ursula reflects on the significance of hats in her identity as a writer. Highlights include: Links: Hugo AwardsDragon AwardsTor Books Evergreen Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyFocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonSubstackDevo SpiceBookshop.org Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 December 30, 2024 | Season 10 Ep 6 | murverse.com | Copyright 2024, Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License

"Sometimes you just need to chase the inspiration, even if it means working on a project nobody asked for." - Ursula Transcript (This post went live for supporters on October 4, 2024. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!) In this episode, Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon tackle the complexities of burnout, the writing hustle, and the latest controversies in the literary world. Ursula shares her battle with mortgage woes, while Mur discusses the challenges of juggling multiple podcasts and writing projects. The duo also delves into the fallout from NaNoWriMo's recent controversies and the implications of AI in the writing community. They ponder the impact of fallen idols in the literary world and the importance of making good choices in public-facing careers. Recorded on Twitch every other Monday at 3pm Eastern time. Highlights include: Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyDevo SpiceLegends and LattesBabelSupernova Con Evergreen Links: FocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonSubstackDevo SpiceBookshop.org Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"Networking is just meeting people and having them remember you exist." - Ursula Vernon Transcript (This post went live for supporters on October 2, 2024. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!) In this episode of Ditch Diggers, Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon return from their adventures in Scotland and dive into the art of networking. They explore the nuances of making connections in the writing world, share tales from Worldcon, and discuss the challenges and joys of upcoming conventions. The duo also tackles the importance of maintaining a presence in the ever-shifting landscape of social media and the significance of in-person networking at conventions. From the intricacies of interactive fiction to the recent developments at SFWA, Mur and Ursula cover a wide range of topics with the wisdom you have come to expect from them. Highlights include: Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyDevo SpiceTJ KluneWorldconBuboniconMagic: The GatheringBaldur's Gate 3Tor BooksBlue Sky Evergreen Links: FocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonSubstackDevo SpiceBookshop.org Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"If you, you know, give ten writers an idea, you get eleven different books." - Ursula Transcript (This post went live for supporters on July 30, 2024. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!) In this episode of Ditch Diggers, Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon dive into the gritty realities of the writing world. From the anxiety of upcoming surgeries to the chaos of travel and illness, they share their personal and professional struggles. The episode takes a critical look at the pitfalls of online behavior, especially concerning agents making inappropriate comments on social media. They discuss the importance of professionalism, the fear of idea theft, and the phenomenon of simultaneous similar ideas emerging in the literary world. Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyDevo Spice Evergreen Links: FocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonSubstackDevo SpiceBookshop.org Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"Being on BookTok will not give you a career if you don't have one. Do what makes you happy." - Ursula Transcript (This post went live for supporters on July 3, 2024. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!) In this episode, Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon dive into the realities of book tours, the financial intricacies of publishing, and the ever-changing landscape of social media for authors. Ursula shares a retraction about the profitability of her book tour, while Mur discusses the challenges of balancing writing with personal commitments and health issues. They also tackle the latest trends and controversies in the writing community, including the misguided advice about writing styles and the pressure to be active on platforms like TikTok. Links: Veronica RothChuck WendigJohn ScalziMcIntyre's Books Evergreen Links: FocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonSubstackDevo SpiceBookshop.org Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

"If you want to make money, you have to think about it like a job."- Mur Transcript (This post went live for supporters on June 26, 2024. If you want early, ad-free, and sometimes expanded episodes, support at Patreon or Substack!) Welcome back to Ditch Diggers! In this episode, we kick things off with a fresh start and a new co-host. The mighty Mur Lafferty is joined by the fabulous Ursula Vernon (aka T. Kingfisher) as they dive into the nitty-gritty of the writing business. Ursula shares her personal journey of overcoming cancer and getting back into the writing groove, while Mur talks about the realities of making deadlines and the business side of writing. They also discuss the recent Hugo Awards controversy and the implications for authors involved. Highlights include: - Transition to Ursula as the new co-host - Ursula's health update and return to writing - The Hugo Awards controversy and its impact - Backing up your work and the Google Drive debacle - The pros and cons of attending conventions Links: Ursula Vernon/T. KingfisherMur LaffertyHugo AwardsLegends and LattesBabel by RF KuangSupernova ConDevo SpiceBackblazeJoCo CruiseFenConRavenConNASFiCWorld Science Fiction SocietyRobert's Rules of Order Evergreen Links: FocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonSubstackDevo Spice (check here for all mentioned books) Support Local Book Stores! Devo SpiceNumbers Ninja LibsynPatreon Mur Lafferty and Ursula Vernon CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

This was recorded back in July, but time and things and travel got away with me. Actually what happened was the fact that I can't spread podcast production across more than one day. If I do, I will forget it needs to be finished. It's not great spending 4+ hours to produce and upload 2 shows, but if I don't, one will fall by the wayside. ADHD brain for the win. We will be back in september, hopefully with lots of amazing ditch digging. August 10, 2023 | Season 9 Ep 9 | murverse.com Copyright 2023, Mur Lafferty and Matt Wallace | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License

Streamed live, July 10, 2023 Below are some affiliate links that support indie bookstores and may benefit me financially with no cost to you. S9 Ep8 Horny chaotic god energy is what we're all about in today's Ditch Diggers, "Data Wonking with Podmother Gail Carriger" where Gail joins us to talk about sifting through data in self publishing. It is some heady stuff, and we discuss tying your self worth to "bad" data and more! Gail Carriger: 30:30 (ish): My sense of failure will kick in when a reader says I love Gail Carriger. And I didn't know she had a new book out, that's when I feel like I failed at my job. I am an author, that's the one job I had is to make sure that people who liked me can read my new books, right? That's it. Transcript Links Gail's blogGail's booksMatt's siteFocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonSubstackDevo Spice (check here for all mentioned books) July 20, 2023 | Season 9 Ep 8 | murverse.com Copyright 2023, Mur Lafferty and Matt Wallace | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License

S9 Ep7 Recorded live on Twitch! Mur's agent Seth Fishman joins us to take your questions, and we fill up an hour FAST. Full transcript available! Seth Fishman: Transcript Links Seth's booksThe Gernert CompanyMatt's siteFocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonDevo Spice (check here for all mentioned books) June 21, 2023 | Season 9 Ep 7 | murverse.com Copyright 2022, Mur Lafferty and Matt Wallace | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License

Streamed live, June 13, 2023 Below are some affiliate links that support indie bookstores and may benefit me financially with no cost to you. S9 Ep6 It's our 1001st episode (not really) and Matt is here to launch the final book in the Savage Rebellion trilogy, and it's a very honest episode. Serious Ditch Digging here, y'all. He doesn't hold back. It's publishing, warts and all. Links to Savage Crowns and other books below! Full transcript available! Matt Wallace: I was like, what if I did 'the Wire' as an epic fantasy? That was my other thought when I started it. So my mother says there are strong women characters, there are, Thank you, mom. And I was raised, but I was raised by a strong woman who's definitely a character. Transcript (I wanted to do an annotated transcript like the other two podcasts, but frankly, the others are already taking up so much time I can't do three transcripts, annotate all three, record the podcasts, AND write books.) Links Matt's siteFocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonDevo Spice (check here for book links) June 13 2023 | Season 9 Ep 6 | murverse.com Copyright 2022, Mur Lafferty and Matt Wallace | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License

Matt and Mur welcome Premee Mohamed, multiple award winning author of No One Will Come Back for Us. We talk about chickens, sea cucumbers, conventions and anxiety, and there's a hair flip in there, but you can only see it if you get the video on Patreon. Links Premee MohamedMatt's siteFocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonDevo Spice May 15, 2023 | Season 9 Ep 5 | murverse.com | Copyright 2022, Mur Lafferty and Matt Wallace | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License

Streamed live, April 3, 2023 S9 Ep4 Matt and Mur welcome Fonda Lee, multiple award winning author of Untethered Sky. Fonda talks Patreon, starting something new after a very successful series, and more! Links Fonda LeeMatt's siteFocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonDevo Spice April 3, 2023 | Season 9 Ep 4 | murverse.com Copyright 2022, Mur Lafferty and Matt Wallace | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License

S9 Ep3 Matt and Mur welcome Mary Robinette Kowal, podcaster, puppeteer, former SFWA president, audiobook narrator, and Hugo Award winning writer. Mary Robinette has had blog posts helping out debut authors, so we decided to pick her brain for a few more pieces of advice, from how to run a kaffeklatch to how to write something cute into your book that isn't insufferable. Links Mary Robinette Kowal Writing Excuses Matt's siteFocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonDevo Spice March 13, 2023 | Season 9 Ep 3 | murverse.com Copyright 2022, Mur Lafferty and Matt Wallace | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License

Streamed live, February 27, 2022 S.9 Ep.2 I'm joined at the last minute by Valerie Valdes, my co-editor at Escape Pod! We talk about the whole AI thing and look to shed some light on the current kerfuffle. Links Valerie Valdes Fault Tolerance Escape Pod Matt's siteFocusmateMur on TwitterInstagramYoutubeThe Hot MicPatreonDevo Spice February 27, 2023 | Season 9 Ep 2 | murverse.com Copyright 2022, Mur Lafferty and Matt Wallace | CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 License