More than a Few Words

Recruiter, podcaster, and process evangelist Darren Saul returns to More Than a Few Words to unpack a painfully relatable story: the one that got away. After weeks of work, multiple interviews, and a seemingly perfect match, Darren’s top candidate vanished right after receiving the offer—without so much as a “thanks, but no thanks.” Ouch. But this isn’t just a story about recruitment. It’s a wake-up call for marketers, sales pros, and anyone who works with humans (aka all of us). Because whether you're filling a role, closing a deal, or pitching a new client, the lessons are the same: assumptions kill deals, and skipping steps in your process will always come back to haunt you. Key Points Even perfect processes can fail if you don't fully qualify the people you're dealing with. Ghosting isn’t just rude—it’s bad business. Burning bridges happens silently and swiftly. Recruitment and sales are two sides of the same coin: both require curiosity, follow-through, and respect. Process isn't optional. Skipping steps may feel faster, but it will cost you in the long run. Actionable Takeaways Qualify early and thoroughly. Ask the hard questions up front: Are they really ready to make a move? Who else is involved in the decision? Treat recruitment like sales. Whether it's a client, candidate, or customer—if you're not uncovering hidden decision-makers or motivations, you’re setting yourself up for a surprise. Build a repeatable process. Ad hoc might get you a few wins, but systems scale success. Stay professional—even when others don’t. When someone disappears, take the high road. It pays off in long-term reputation. Track the quiet ones. That candidate who ghosted? He’s still in the same job. You dodged a bullet. My guest Darren Saul Darren is a Serial Podcaster, Strategist, Trainer, Coach, Keynote Speaker and Student of Human Attention. He started using the Power of Podcasting to build his photography business and was so amazed with the results he never looked back! He is now a Podcast Junkie who consults with organizations to help them get serious business results integrating Podcasting into their marketing strategy. LEARN MORE: https://suspendedanimation.com.au/

Do you remember marketing meetups? Not the polished, sponsor-filled kind. I mean the scrappy, “grab a coffee and chat” kind. No agenda. No name tags. Just people who geek out over marketing gathering to swap stories, ideas, and maybe a slice of pizza. Then social media distracted us. It was easier to post on Twitter and LinkedIn from the comfort of your bet then it was to get out of bed and come to a networking even . Then along came COVID... well, it cleared the calendar completely. And somehow, we never bounced back… I missed those conversations. So I posted a note on LinkedIn and Instagram, and an event on : “I’ll be at my favorite coffee shop, Friday 3–5. Join me?” No RSVPs, no pressure. Just show up. I was prepared to sit outside enjoy my coffee and read my book, but ... at 3:05, someone showed up. An old friend, I hadn’t seen since Covid, then along came someone who used to frequent the marketing meet ups. And that was it. The three of us, two hours, one fantastic conversation about work, marketing trends, life, and everything in between. My two friends had never met, so the connection was a win. Randy, was hoping to find a place to test his stand up comedy, and I got him hooked up. And me, I learned a great way to use Chat GPT to improve my vacation planning. So what did I learn with my little Marketing meetup experiment. I probably need to invite more people directly and send a reminder the day before. But honestly? The magic wasn’t in the headcount. It was in the connection. Will I do it again? Absolutely. Before it gets too cold to linger outside with a latte and good company. If you are in Indy, maybe you want to drop by and if it is too long, plan your meet up. Start small and have fun!

I had a conversation with Laura Chattington, a strategist who’s helped companies with enough zeros to make your head spin. We didn’t talk about prompts, plugins, or the latest hack for writing Instagram captions in 30 seconds flat. We talked about something much more important: how to make AI part of your marketing strategy instead of just your to-do list. Laura reframed the conversation around two powerful words: speed and leverage. Yes, AI can make things faster. That part’s obvious. But where it really shines is in its ability to help you dig deeper, make better decisions, and build systems that scale without piling on more complexity. This episode isn’t about robots taking your job. It’s about how AI can support your brain instead of trying to replace it. Think of it as your intern who works 24/7, never gets tired, and doesn’t whine about the coffee. Key Points AI is a wave, not a trend. Like the internet and social media before it, AI is reshaping business at high speed. This is not just a shiny new toy. It is the next normal. Speed helps you keep up. Leverage helps you pull ahead. AI doesn’t just cut down your to-do list. It gives you the tools to see patterns, spot inefficiencies, and make better choices across your business. Think 80/20. Let AI carry the load for repeatable tasks so you can show up fully where it really matters. This is how you create more impact without adding more hours. Your experience still matters. AI can do a lot, but it can’t replicate your instincts, your voice, or your years of experience. That’s where your competitive advantage lives. Actionable Takeaways Audit your workflows. Start by identifying systems you run repeatedly. These are perfect candidates for AI support. Treat AI as a partner, not a tool. Go beyond content creation. Use it to analyze customer feedback, streamline proposals, and test new ideas. Train your tools. Feed your AI examples, past work, and data from your business. The quality of your input shapes the quality of your results. Let AI deepen your research. Whether you’re fine-tuning an offer or building a customer journey, AI can help you uncover insights you might miss on your own. Stay in the driver’s seat. Use AI to scale your thinking, not to replace it. Your voice and judgment still steer the strategy. About Laura Chattington Laura Chattington has run multi-million dollar campaigns for billion-dollar companies — working with individuals and teams at organisations like Oracle, Deloitte, Puma Energy and Facebook. She’s trained and advised top founders and leadership teams around the world across tech, finance, and marketing. Today, she helps entrepreneurs simplify their strategy, design premium offers, and scale sustainably — without adding complexity. She’s been mentored, coached, and works with the top 1% of coaches and consultants globally. Known for her conviction, strategic insight, and ability to pull high-value offers out of even the most complex business models, Laura helps founders upgrade, launch, and convert with confidence. More about Laura www.SimplifiedMarketingLive.com www.LinkedIn.com/in/laura-elizabeth-c www.YouTube.com/@laura.chattington

Is It Too Late to Start a Podcast? Roy Coughlan Doesn’t Think So I sat down with Roy Coughlan, a serial entrepreneur turned podcast coach, to tackle a question that’s been floating around like last week’s leftovers: Is podcasting still worth it? If you’ve been wondering whether the market is too crowded or if there’s even room for one more voice (yours), Roy has a clear answer: Yes, there’s room. Especially for podcasters who stick with it. Because while millions may have started podcasts, only a small percentage are still active. The rest? Abandoned somewhere between episode 10 and a pile of unrealistic expectations. Roy’s message wasn’t just encouraging—it was refreshingly honest. He’s hosted six shows and coached countless others, so he knows both the magic and the mess behind the mic. Why Podcasting Still Matters 1. It's not just about downloads. Podcasting gives you a direct channel to build relationships, showcase your expertise, and create meaningful conversations. Think of it less like broadcasting and more like building trust at scale. 2. It opens doors without cold calls. Inviting your ideal customer to be a guest? That’s a warm introduction with zero awkward sales pitch. You're building relationships, not just content. 3. It makes you smarter. Hosting a podcast is like getting a masterclass every week. You ask the questions you’re curious about and walk away sharper than when you started. 4. It’s a ripple effect. Inspire one person, and who knows where that impact lands? Roy’s seen podcasting create unexpected waves of positivity—sometimes in ways he didn’t realize until much later. 5. You don’t need a massive audience to make a difference. If 50 people listen to your episode, imagine them sitting in a room, eyes on you. Feels different, doesn’t it? Actionable Takeaways for Women Business Owners Set realistic expectations. Success won’t happen overnight. Keep going past the “episode 10 slump” where most people quit. Podcasting is a long game, not a viral moment. Use podcasting as a marketing tool. Record an episode that answers a client’s question. Share it ahead of a meeting to warm up the conversation and show your expertise. Start simple. Don’t overcomplicate it with gear and gadgets. Roy’s been using the same plug-and-play mic for years. Focus on content, not cables. Choose one platform to focus on. Rather than spreading yourself thin across every social channel, master one. Get good systems in place before expanding. Be a good podcast citizen. Leave a comment. Share a show. If something helped you, support the creator. Positive feedback fuels better content and stronger communities. Keep your podcast structure nimble. Things can (and will) go wrong. Use editing tools to clean up the audio and keep the process fun—not frustrating. One Last Thought Podcasting isn’t just a marketing tactic—it can be a creative outlet, a learning platform, and a powerful tool for connection. Whether you’ve got a story to tell, a message to share, or just want to have better conversations, Roy’s advice is simple: Start where you are. Stay curious. And most importantly, enjoy the process. Where to find Roy https://roycoughlan.com/ https://va.world/ https://braingym.fitness/ https://www.facebook.com/roycoughlan https://x.com/poleire https://www.instagram.com/awakening.podcast/ https://www.youtube.com/@roycoughlan https://www.linkedin.com/in/roycoughlan/ https://www.tiktok.com/@roycoughlanpodcaster

I had a conversation with Deanna Russo, LinkedIn pro and founder of Leverage Up, about one of those ideas that sounded great in theory—but fizzled out in practice. Her LinkedIn group community was supposed to be the perfect extension of her one-on-one coaching work. But in the end, it didn’t quite land the way she hoped. Deanna built a network of over 30,000 followers on LinkedIn, so she knows a thing or two about creating connection. But even with that experience, launching a paid online community turned out to be harder than expected. She tried different formats. Played with cadence. Offered recordings. Bundled it with coaching. Unbundled it. But the reality was clear: the group wasn’t growing, and more and more people kept asking for one-on-one support. Sometimes, the business speaks for itself. And it’s not saying “try harder”—it’s saying “try something else.” Key Takeaways from Deanna’s Story If it’s not growing, it’s not working. Pay attention to where your customers naturally gravitate. If one offer is thriving while another flounders, don’t split your energy trying to force both to succeed. Running a community is a full-time job. You need structure, support, and likely a second set of hands. A community isn’t just a cheaper version of coaching—it’s a different product entirely. Be careful with “easy yes” pricing. A low price point can feel generous, but if people can get similar content elsewhere for free, you’re training them to overlook the value you bring. Don’t confuse content with connection. Just because people watch, read, or listen doesn’t mean they’re ready to join or engage. Broadcasting and building community are not the same thing. You can walk away and still win. Deanna’s weekly LinkedIn Audio show gave her visibility—but when it became more burden than benefit, she stepped back. That created space for what’s working now: one-on-one coaching and organic LinkedIn engagement that’s deeply human. More than a Few Words is a marketing podcast for marketing pros and beginners, who are building businesses, leading brands, and doing it all without the marketing BS. Hosted by Lorraine Ball, each episode is a quick hit of practical advice, candid conversations, and marketing truth bombs from pros who’ve been there. No hype. No hustle culture. Just smart ideas you can actually use — whether you’re running a business from your kitchen table or corner office. Subscribe for new episodes, expert interviews, and marketing tips with just the right mix of sass and strategy. Visit https://morethanafewwords.com for more resources and downloads Connect with Lorraine on LinkedIn

I am going to start this marketing monologue with a story. I'm going to start with a story. I was about four years old and I went into a bakery with my dad. And while he was ordering breads and pastries, I was standing there looking in the glass counter at these beautiful pastries. Eventually, my dad looked down and he says, Lanie, do you want one? Yes, Daddy. So the woman reaches behind the counter and she gets me a Charlotte Russe. Now, if you're not from New York, you may not know what a Charlotte Russe pastry is. It's a little piece of pound cake stuffed inside a tube about the size of a toilet paper roll filled with whipped cream. And then on the very top, there's a cherry. She hands it to me, and I say thank you—because I was a very polite child. I ate the cherry off the top and as we were leaving, the pastry falls to the ground. Before I had a chance to say anything, the woman came running out from behind the counter and said, Don't cry, sweetie, I'll get you another one. Lanie, do you want another one? Yes, Daddy. And so the woman gave me another pastry. This time, as we were leaving, I ate the cherry off the top, and—yep—you guessed it. I dropped the pastry on the floor. Why did you do that? my father asked. And I probably should mention right about now that my dad was not a patient person. I said, I only wanted the cherry. What we had was a failure to communicate. My dad was talking about pastries. I was talking about cherries. Anyone who has spent time with children knows this feeling—talking about something and realizing halfway through the child has no idea what you mean. That’s because children come into a conversation with a smaller worldview. They don’t have the same vocabulary, experience, or context. So they focus on the parts that make sense and miss the bigger picture. But here’s the thing: adults do the exact same thing. Every networking event, every pitch, every sales call—people nod politely while you talk about your process, your platform, or your proprietary system… but if you're not speaking their language, they check out. They're thinking about their next meeting. Or dinner. Or pastries. So how do you keep them with you? How do you connect, especially when your work is a little technical or complex? Here's how: 1. Simplify your message. Strip out the jargon. Ditch the 12-step framework. Lead with the cherry—the one irresistible thing you know they’ll understand and care about. 2. Use familiar comparisons. Find a metaphor, an analogy, something from their world. Talk about what you do the way you’d explain it to a 10-year-old—without being condescending. Just clear. 3. Test your message before the real thing. Before your next networking event or client meeting, practice explaining what you do to a non-marketing friend. Or your kid. Or even out loud in the mirror. If you can’t make it land simply, it’s too complicated. 4. Lead with benefits, not process. You help clients get more leads, increase visibility, or stop spinning their wheels online. That’s what they want to hear. The platform, the tools, the magic—save that for later. 5. Watch for confused faces—and adjust. If someone looks puzzled or politely disengaged, pause. Ask a question. Reframe. Don’t just keep steamrolling through your pitch. That’s how pastries get dropped. The bottom line? If you want better conversations and better results :Say less. Make it clearer. Make it about them. And when you do, you just might walk away with more sales, more referrals… and the occasional cherry on top. If this sparked an idea or reminded you of your own “cherry on top” moment, I’d love to hear about it. Hit the “Let’s Chat” button on all my social profiles or drop by morethanafewwords.com.

What if I told you there was one metric that could truly move your business forward—and most business owners aren’t even paying attention to it? That’s what we’re diving into in this episode of More than a Few Words. I had a conversation with jake Tlapek, aka the Wizard of Marketing, who’s spent the last decade helping struggling brands become high-growth success stories using battle-tested SEO and creative problem-solving. Episode Recap: When most people think of marketing metrics, they zero in on traffic, leads, or social likes. But Jake makes the case for a bigger-picture indicator: Share of Brand Voice—a measure of how often your brand shows up compared to competitors. It’s not a tidy little number you can find in a single report. Measuring it requires stitching together insights from a variety of sources. It’s not a tidy little number you can find in a single report. Measuring it requires stitching together insights from a variety of sources. But if you’re serious about building a visible, respected brand, this metric can’t be ignored. We talked about why it matters more than ever in the era of AI search, and what you can start doing right now—even if you don’t have access to fancy tools or a big team. Key Points: Share of Brand Voice is about visibility in your space: how often your brand is mentioned, cited, or seen versus your competitors. It’s not easily measured in one place—you’ll need to combine analytics, branded search volume, and SEO tools for a clearer picture. Tools like SparkToro and Search Atlas can help if you’re ready to go deeper. Don’t overlook your Google Search Console and branded keyword searches—they’re a great place to start. AI Search is Changing the Game AI doesn’t just answer one query. It generates dozens of variations before delivering results. To show up in AI overviews, your content should answer multiple versions of the same core question. Visibility in AI results depends on pattern recognition—the more your brand appears across the web, the more likely it is to be included in AI-generated answers. Actionable Takeaways for Women Business Owners: Start by tracking branded searches in Google Search Console. If no one is looking for you by name, it’s time to build awareness. Answer variations of your most-asked questions across your blog, website, and social platforms. Repetition is your friend. Get featured elsewhere. Guest blogs, podcast interviews, and external mentions help create brand signals AI can detect. Create short-form video content. Every video gets transcribed and indexed—boosting both search and AI visibility. Don’t just post—get credited. Whether you're guesting on a podcast or writing for another site, make sure your name and brand are clearly attached. Jake Tlapek Jake, often called the Wizard of Marketing has spent the last decade turning struggling brands into high-growth businesses using no-fluff strategy, battle-tested SEO, and a heavy dose of creative problem-solving. From WordPress to PPC, content to conversion, he break down the complex so business owners can actually win online.

Joseph ( Dr. Joey) Drolshagen, left behind a high-powered corporate career to launch his own coaching business built on the SMT Method—Subconscious Mindset Training. He's seen incredible success helping companies grow, but in this conversation we’re not talking about the wins. We're digging into one of his biggest flops: a year-long coaching program called Struggle to Soar—designed for men navigating divorce, loss, or career upheaval. He spent over a year building it and more than $50,000 on development and ads. The result? One client. Just one. And yet, buried in that failure were the seeds of everything he does today. What Was the Idea? A high-ticket, year-long personal development program tailored to help men rebound after major life disruptions. The concept was born from personal experience and fueled by his passion for mindset transformation. What Went Wrong? Two things, really: The audience wasn't ready. Joey targeted men, a group far less likely (at that time) to seek out emotional or mindset support. He went big, too soon. Rather than testing the waters with a small group, he dove into the deep end—ads, funnels, course content, the whole enchilada. What He’d Do Differently: Start small. Joey now knows he could’ve launched with a free Facebook group or a low-commitment mastermind. That would have created a feedback loop, built a real community, and helped him tweak the offer before dropping tens of thousands of dollars. The Takeaway for Business Owners: Don’t confuse a powerful idea with a market-ready offer. Even the best ideas need the right audience, timing, and delivery method. Before you invest in the big rollout, build a small tribe. Talk to them. Test your concept in real time. Then, scale what sticks. Or in Joey’s words: “I still believe in the mission. I just needed to serve it up with a side of cheese—something familiar to get them to take that first bite.” LEARN MORE ABOUT JOEY – https://coachwithjoey.com GET THE BOOK Book Link: https://a.co/d/8ateFjK Let's Chat Sometimes my podcast feels like a one way conversation. Sure I am talking to my guests, but would love to hear from you as well. So if you are a regular listener, or just drop by from time to time I would love to hear from you. Drop a question, marketing tip or idea for an upcoming episode here.

What Went Wrong: I Was Talking to the Wrong Audience After years of interviewing guests about their marketing mistakes, I decided it was time to turn the microphone on myself. This solo episode of More than a Few Words dives into one of my biggest missteps—fifteen years in the making. When I launched More than a Few Words, I imagined it as a smart marketing resource for small business owners. I was running a digital agency, working with contractors, lawyers, and local service pros. Naturally, I figured a podcast could attract more of them. The idea seemed solid. The conversations were interesting. The episodes were sharp and useful. But there was one little problem. My audience wasn’t listening. Turns out, the folks I built the show for—the small business owners—weren’t looking for deep dives into marketing trends or strategy debates. That’s why they hired me in the first place. They wanted solutions, not theory. So even though the podcast was fun to make and attracted listeners, those listeners weren’t potential clients. The show didn’t generate leads. It didn’t grow the business. It just... existed. What I’d Do Differently I wish I’d paused sooner to really look at who was tuning in. Because the people showing up every week weren’t roofers or accountants—they were marketers. Women like me. Creative professionals building their own businesses, trying to balance their love of marketing with the pressure of proving it works. So I’ve finally stopped pretending this is a business podcast for business owners. More than a Few Words is for marketers. For the curious, the committed, and the occasionally overwhelmed. For the ones who love what they do, but still sometimes wonder if they’re getting it right. It’s a space for real conversations—not just highlight reels—and stories that show what happens when things go sideways. If that sounds like your kind of show, hit subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

Phillipa Games, has spent more than 25 years swimming in the deep end of digital strategy and analytics. With experience across nearly 500 clients and websites that have brought in hundreds of millions of dollars, Phillipa has seen it all from the good, to the bad, and the wildly overlooked. In this conversation, we peeled back the curtain on website analytics, not the overwhelming, chart-filled dashboard version, but the real, human-centered data that tells the story of what your customers are doing (and not doing) on your site. If you who would rather schedule a root canal than log into Google Analytics, this episode is your guide to looking at just the data that matters and learning to use it to make smarter decisions. Key Discussion Points: Actionable Takeaways:

Imagine being a fly on the wall, hearing what people really say about your business when you’re not in the room. That’s the promise of AI-driven SEO today. I sat down with Michael Buckbee, a marketing and tech veteran, to talk about how tools like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Perplexity are reshaping brand visibility. This isn’t your standard SEO conversation, it’s a peek behind the digital curtain to discover what AI thinks about your business. Trust me, it’s more revealing than you might expect. Whether you’re refining your brand, trying to figure out your target audience, or stalking your competitors (in the most professional way, of course), AI can offer surprisingly honest and useful feedback. If you know what to ask. Key Takeaways: What can you do today? AI doesn’t have to be a mystery. it can be your mirror, your marketing consultant, and your competitive edge. You just have to ask the right questions. About Michael Buckbee Michael has worked at the intersection of marketing and technology for nearly two decades. Past clients include the US Navy, Fortune 100 companies, YC startups, presidential candidates, federal agencies, rock bands, and foreign governments. Today, he's the co-founder of Knowatoa, a service that tracks brand visibility, rankings, and sentiment within AI search services like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google Gemini. LEARN MORE

My guest, Steven Lewis, broke one my big rules. It is ok, to make mistakes, you just don't want to make the same mistake twice. And he did. Yep, Steven started not one, but two businesses that were—how shall I say this?—a bit too far ahead of their time. And in this candid chat, we unpack what he learned, how it shaped the work he does today, and what you, as a business owner, can take away without having to make the same mistakes. Key Ideas Timing is Everything (But Not Everything) Steven launched a web business in 1994 and a social media agency in 2004—both solid ideas, just way too early. He found himself selling websites before people knew what the internet was, and social media services before anyone knew what a tweet was. The market wasn't ready, and he learned the hard way that even the best ideas need the right audience at the right time. Sell the Symptom, Not the Cure Like a podiatrist treating knee pain, Steven learned that people don’t buy solutions to problems they don’t know they have. If your audience thinks they have a sore knee, don’t talk about fixing their feet. Speak to the symptoms they’re experiencing, not the root cause you see. Then gently guide them to the solution. Your Cool Idea Isn’t Enough Steven built those early businesses around what he thought was cool—websites, podcasting, blogging—but he wasn’t solving a problem his audience recognized. Today, he’s flipped the script and focuses first on his audience’s pain points. It’s not about what you can do—it’s about what your audience needs right now. Use Tools That Think Like You—Or Smarter Now Steven helps clients build their own AI-powered CMO, trained on their business to give them advice they can actually use. Essentially, he created the strategic brain he wished he had back then—and now he shares it with others. Steven Lewis Steven runs the Sydney-based marketing agency, Taleist, which specializes in direct-response copywriting, and the agency has been using AI copywriting tools to do that since February 2021. Taleist’s team has developed techniques to use AI to research topics and audiences and then write copy that can be as close as 80% ready for publication. This is the link for a free mini course teaching people how to get ChatGPT to write exactly like them: Where to find Steven LinkedIn:, YouTube, and at The Taleist Agency Be sure to look for my other conversation with Steven

Have you ever had that one brilliant idea—the one you were sure would be a game-changer—only to watch it sputter out despite all your careful planning? Oh, friend, you’re not alone. I sat down with Whitney Bateson, a passionate entrepreneur who helps wellness professionals build their online credibility. But this time, we weren’t talking about wins, we were unpacking a launch that landed with a thud. Whitney shared the story of her well-intentioned (and very elaborate) launch strategy that missed the mark. And just like that favorite casserole recipe that looked amazing on Pinterest but turned into a burnt mess—there were lessons everywhere. So pull up a chair and let’s dive into the real, raw, and ridiculously relatable side of launching, failing, and getting back up. Key Takeaways: Keep It Simple Whitney’s biggest lesson? Simplicity wins. She over-engineered her launch with a multi-day video series that drained her energy and diluted her message. The complexity confused her audience and fractured their attention. Don’t Lose Sight of the Goal In trying to “warm up” her audience, Whitney accidentally shifted her focus from conversion to education. The result? A lot of content, but few clients. She learned the hard way not to let interim steps distract from the end game. Be Present, Not Perfect Whitney was so consumed with building funnels, scripting videos, and creating new assets that she lost the bandwidth to show up authentically during her launch. She wasn’t fully present—and that absence showed. All Leads Aren’t Equal Offering free value is great—but it doesn’t always lead to paid conversions. A freebie-seeking audience may not convert unless you intentionally cultivate a buying relationship from the beginning. Failures Are Fertile Ground Whitney’s failed launch wasn’t the end of the story. It was a field trip into what doesn’t work—and a reminder that everything you build (even the flops) can be repurposed or refined. About Whitney Bateson Whitney is a dietitian first—but also a passionate advocate for design and technology. Throughout her career, she has seen time and again the transformative power of good design. A strong message, service, or training can fall flat if it’s not visually compelling or user-friendly. Whitney believes those details matter deeply—and she’s built her business around helping others bring their work to life through thoughtful, intentional design. Driven by a belief that the right message, delivered at the right time, in the right way, can empower people to live healthier, fuller lives, Whitney works to bridge the gap between nutrition expertise and effective communication. She sees untapped potential in how nutrition and health professionals engage with their audiences and is passionate about helping them truly connect, demonstrate their value, and create meaningful change. Her goal is simple: to help health professionals show up in the best light, so they can reach the people who need them most.

“Yes, the world feels like a hot mess right now. But what if the real power lies not in fixing the chaos ‘out there,’ but in finding our footing ‘in here’?” That was the heart of my recent conversation on More Than a Few Words with the always wise and wonderfully grounded Deborah Sunderland. We didn’t talk strategy or spreadsheets this time—we talked soul. How we, as women business owners, can navigate the storms of our external world by coming back to the steady center within ourselves. Because let’s be honest: things are weird out there. Between the economy, politics, and everything in between, it’s easy to feel like we’re being tossed around in a storm we didn’t sign up for. But as Deborah gently reminded me—and now, I’ll remind you—we’ve been through a lot, and we’re still standing. That resilience? It’s no small thing. Key Takeaways for Women Business Owners: You’ve already weathered storms. Recognize your resilience. The past few years have tested everyone, and you’ve made it through. That alone deserves a moment of appreciation. Your mindset is your power tool. Our brains are sneaky little things—they’ll default to fear and scarcity unless we redirect them. When you catch yourself spiraling, pause and ask: “What thought is driving this feeling?” and then: “How might this actually be for me?” Emotions aren’t the enemy—resistance is. Don’t stuff it down. Feel it fully. Most emotions pass in 90 seconds if we stop wrestling with them. Anger, fear, frustration—they're signals, not stop signs. Shift the conversation with yourself. The most important conversations aren’t in the boardroom—they're in your own mind. Be kinder, more curious, and less judgmental toward yourself. And hey, extend that grace to others too (yes, even the annoying customer service rep). Your breath is free medicine. Use it. Three deep breaths can shift your entire nervous system. It’s not woo—it’s biology. Take those moments of calm and reclaim your focus. Try This Today: About Debra Debra’s genius is creating a clear vision for CEO’s and their teams – making that vision a reality. With decades of C-level executive and team coaching, Debra challenges leaders by inviting them to create a collaborative, vibrant, responsible, and joy-filled culture, which fosters highly desirable results. Her practice is shared in a diverse range of industries: hi-tech, wealth management, engineering, healthcare, marketing and more. Debra specializes in awakening leaders to transformatively solve their upper limiting beliefs, sabotaging behaviors, and unconscious biases, moving them into sustainable excellence and self-awareness. She coaches through the tough and uncomfortable work of removing the blockages preventing leaders from fully living their genius, equipping them with the thoughts and skills to bring their goals to fruition. She challenges leaders to own their results in all areas of life, to be present in the here and now, stepping out of leading with reactivity and into conscious leadership. The CEO’s chief purpose is to raise up their teams to practice radical responsibility and curiosity. Organizations achieve their optimal outcomes when they shift out of drama and create win-for-all solutions. Debra graduated from Miami University, holds a degree in Psychology and is certified in The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership, the Integrative9 Enneagram, Corporate Goal Coaching, and CTI Co-Active training. Debra’s work has been featured on Fox National/Local News, Crain’s Chicago Business, the Chicago Tribune, Chicago Sun- Times, and 190 N Television. As a continual learner, Debra is a graduate of the Inner MBA – Mindful NYU program. Her base is Nashville and Chicago.

Andrew Laws has back in my guest chair (if you missed our first conversation, find it here) it, you’ll find the link in the show notes). This time we shifted away from SEO tips and took a different route—down a bumpy road lined with good intentions, disastrous mistakes, and a hacker with way too much free time. Andrew’s story is packed with humor, hard-earned lessons, and a healthy reminder that if a business idea sounds too easy, it probably isn't really Chasing “Easy Money” Was the First Mistake: Andrew thought starting a web hosting company would be a simple, hands-off business. Instead, he discovered that businesses built on the idea of “set it and forget it” rarely turn out to be easy—or hands-off. The Danger of Blurring Business Boundaries: Hosting friends’ and acquaintances’ websites felt natural at first, but quickly became overwhelming. When you don’t set clear expectations with clients, small favors snowball into major responsibilities. When Things Go Really, Really Wrong: A hacker infiltrated Andrew’s server, and when Andrew instinctively shut the server down, it triggered a full-blown meltdown. What followed was a two-year criminal investigation and a front-row seat to the importance of cybersecurity. The Impact of Reputation Damage: Even though the hack wasn’t his fault, Andrew’s relationships with clients suffered. He learned that when you run a business, you’re not just managing services—you’re managing trust. Life Lessons Beyond Business: After everything collapsed, Andrew realized he didn’t want a business that consumed his entire life. The experience shaped how he approaches work and parenthood today, favoring businesses that align with the life he actually wants to live. Conclusion with Takeaways: Andrew’s story is a master class in why there are no shortcuts in business. If it sounds too easy, it probably hides a pile of trouble just waiting to unravel. Set clear expectations with clients early and often, especially about what you will—and won't—support. Understand the real risks behind your business model, and protect not just your income, but your reputation. Most of all, build a business that supports your life, not one that devours it.

If you've been around here for a while, you already know—I’m an email marketing geek. Not the kind of geek who builds robots in her basement, but the kind who gets excited about subject lines and open rates the way some folks get excited about the first tulips of the season. That’s why chatting with Ellen McDowell Strauss felt like talking to an old friend who also happens to alphabetize her spice rack. Ellen and I first connected over our mutual affection for email, but our latest conversation had a more urgent tone—thanks to Microsoft’s recent announcement that could throw a wrench in the way we all send emails. If email is your small business’s secret weapon, it’s time to sharpen it. Main Points from the Conversation: Microsoft’s Email Policy Changes Microsoft has announced stricter deliverability rules—emails that don’t get opened or clicked may not make it into inboxes at all, even if the sender is marked safe. This shift will force marketers to pay more attention to engagement metrics like never before. List Hygiene is No Longer Optional Holding onto disengaged subscribers could hurt your deliverability. Cleaning out your list—removing folks who haven’t opened or clicked in 6–12 months—isn’t just good housekeeping, it’s mission critical. Quality Over Quantity Big lists are out, and meaningful lists are in. A smaller, engaged audience is far more valuable than a bloated list of people who aren’t paying attention. Smaller Campaigns, Better Results Ellen suggests sending smaller, staggered campaigns to improve sender reputation. Large blasts might raise red flags, even if your content is solid. Strategic Email for Every Stage Email can’t be one-size-fits-all anymore. You need tailored messages for prospects, new clients, and past clients—each stage should feel intentional and personal, not like you're just checking a box. Actionable Takeaways: Audit Your List: Check who’s been opening and clicking. If someone’s been snoozing for over 6–9 months, it may be time to let them go—or offer a re-engagement path. Segment Your Sends: Break your list into smaller groups and stagger your email sends to improve visibility and avoid being flagged. Lean on Third-Party Tools: Ditch BCC blasts. Use trusted email marketing platforms (like Constant Contact, Mailchimp, or Robly) that work hand-in-hand with email providers to boost deliverability. Craft Content with a Purpose: Make every email part of a bigger story. Whether it’s educating, engaging, or asking for a review, know your audience and meet them where they are. Rethink “Set It and Forget It”: Email marketing isn’t a crockpot dinner. It’s more like sourdough—needs regular attention, care, and a little love.

You know, I’ve spent years telling business owners to get laser-focused. Find your niche, talk to your niche, sell to your niche. It’s like that old saying: “You can’t please everyone, so pick your people.” But every once in a while, someone comes along and flips my perfectly organized marketing world on its head. That someone was Matt Diamante, founder of Hey Tony, a marketing agency that helps small business owners tackle SEO and social media in ways that actually work. When Matt pitched me the idea of going broad to find your niche, I raised an eyebrow — and then I leaned in. Because sometimes, you have to plant wildflower seeds everywhere before you find out which patch of soil will let your business bloom. Start Broad to Get Noticed Matt shared how narrowing his content too quickly meant missing out on visibility. Early SEO how-to videos flopped because algorithms didn’t know where to send them. By widening his content to appeal to a broader audience, he started generating massive reach — and, surprisingly, attracting the exact people he wanted. Make Social Content Personal and Entertaining The trick isn’t just broad topics, it’s how you deliver them. Matt started adding humor, behind-the-scenes moments with his wife, and simple SEO tips framed like secret hacks. This authentic, entertaining style helped his videos go viral while quietly establishing his expertise. Convert Viral Attention with Consistent, Niche-Focused Follow-Ups Even though viral videos brought millions of eyeballs, the real strategy was in publishing one to three pieces of content daily, mixing broad appeal with posts targeted to DIY business owners. Those niche posts turned casual viewers into inquiries and, eventually, paying clients. Work Within Your Capacity, But Stay Consistent Matt emphasized that your content output depends on your business goals and available time. When he had more time, he posted several times a day. But the real advice is to do as much as you realistically can, because marketing is often the first thing people drop — and the last thing they should. People Buy from People, Not Logos Matt’s final nugget: don’t outsource your social media presence. Especially for small businesses, people want to see the face behind the brand. A good example? Judy’s Family Cafe, where the owner turned goofy viral clips into personal invitations to her restaurant. It’s proof that personality-powered content connects. Try These Simple Steps to Launch Your Go Broad Campaign Test wide topics to see what gets attention, even if it feels unrelated to your core niche at first. Infuse humor, personal moments, and relatable scenarios into your content. People want to connect with people, not textbook tutorials. Balance broad reach with targeted follow-up posts aimed at your ideal customer. Viral reach brings them in — niche content converts. Commit to a realistic, consistent posting schedule. If you can manage a post a day, great. If it’s twice a week, start there. Just don’t disappear. Own your presence. Your followers want you, not a generic brand. Show up, be seen, and let them get to know the person behind the business.

We've all had those “seemed like a good idea at the time” moments. Hers involved a Voxer coaching program, and in the spirit of learning from those detours, we unpacked what happened, what she learned, and how there might still be life in that idea yet. Main Points: Great ideas don’t always land the way you expect. Danielle created a Voxer-based coaching program for personal brand support between sessions. Despite promotions and enthusiasm from peers, it never gained traction with clients. Sometimes it’s not the audience — it’s the offer. Danielle realized her clients come to her for hands-on, real-time messaging work, not asynchronous voice messages. There was a disconnect between what she offered and what her brand promised. Experimentation is always valuable, even when it “fails.” Danielle isn’t sad she tried it. Every experiment, whether it works or not, is a chance to learn, adjust, and discover what truly fits your business and community. Ideas can evolve. Lorraine suggested reframing the Voxer access not as a standalone product but as an add-on to existing branding packages — a “bonus touchpoint” for clients craving extra access and faster feedback. Never give up on a good idea too soon. Danielle’s takeaway was that an idea that flops in one format might thrive in another. It’s all about the packaging, pricing, and timing. Actionable Takeaways: If a new offer isn’t resonating, ask yourself whether it aligns with how clients see you and your core strengths. Surround yourself with a trusted business circle — fresh eyes can spot opportunities and blind spots you’ll miss. When something doesn’t work, don’t toss it immediately. Consider whether it belongs as part of something else, or if a tweak in messaging or positioning could turn it around. Remember: there’s no such thing as a wasted experiment. Every trial leaves breadcrumbs for your next big win.

In this edition of What Went Wrong, I got a chance to explore mistakes, missteps, and the humbling reality that even seasoned pros can land flat on their face with repeat guest Robin Waite. This time, he didn’t come with a polished pitch or a shiny success story. He brought a cautionary tale about Facebook ads, cold leads, and a £9,000 lesson in what happens when you trust the algorithm more than your instincts. Key Points from the Conversation with Robin Waite Even Experts Trip Up Robin isn’t new to marketing—he ran an agency for 12 years. But when it came to Facebook ads for his own coaching business, he got caught in the allure of automation and scale. What started strong eventually crashed, all because the warm audience he’d been nurturing for years dried up. Your Audience Isn’t Infinite Facebook ads worked—until they didn’t. The moment his familiar, friendly audience was exhausted, the leads stopped flowing. Robin kept the campaign running for three more months, hoping it would fix itself. It didn’t. Turns out, if you don’t refill your marketing funnel, it doesn’t matter how clever your copy or shiny your creative. Know Enough to Stay Dangerous Robin outsourced the nitty-gritty to so-called ad experts, trusting they’d fix the problem. But no one could explain what was going wrong. That blind spot cost him. The lesson? You don’t need to be the expert, but you need to know enough to ask the right questions. When in Doubt, Go Back to What Works With his budget blown and confidence shaken, Robin went back to basics—his podcast, speaking gigs, and book. Instead of chasing cold leads, he rebuilt slowly by focusing on brand-building and trust, knowing that meaningful connections take time. Marketing is Just One Big Science Fair Like any good experiment, sometimes things blow up. And that’s okay. Robin reminded us that failure is part of the formula—especially in marketing. The trick is not to avoid mistakes, but to make better ones next time. Takeaways for Business Owners And maybe most important of all: Marketing isn’t magic. It’s messy, imperfect, and beautifully human—just like us. About Robin Waite Robin is the founder of Fearless Business, a Business Accelerator for Coaches, Consultants and Freelancers. Having spent 12 year’s running a digital marketing business, Robin pivoted in 2016 to focus on the part of his business he liked the best; training business owners how to be better in business. In 2016 Robin founded Fearless Business, a unique Business Growth Accelerator for Coaches, Consultants and Freelancers so help free them from the sales cycle of doom! LEARN MORE ABOUT ROBIN And be sure to look for Robin's new book THE FEARLESS BUSINESS OWNER'S BLUEPRINT

You know, I’ve always believed marketing should feel more like a warm hug than a high-pressure sales pitch. So when Alesia Galati and I got to chatting about social media burnout (oh yes, that nagging, energy-draining beast), it was like she reached into my cluttered content calendar and whispered, “There’s a better way.” We laughed, we nodded, and somewhere between SEO tips and podcast rants, I found myself ready to trade reels for real conversations. If you’re teetering on the edge of social media fatigue, wondering if there’s an off-ramp that doesn’t lead to oblivion—good news. There is. And Alicia’s got the roadmap. Main Points from the Conversation: Podcasting as a Stress-Free, Strategic Alternative to Social Media Alicia hit a nerve with so many of us—social media can feel like a hamster wheel with no off switch. Podcasting, by contrast, offers a calmer, more intentional way to share content, connect with your audience, and still build your brand without dancing in front of your phone. Guest Appearances as Powerful SEO and Exposure Tools You don’t have to do it all yourself. By guesting on other people’s shows, you tap into new audiences who already trust the host—and just might trust you too. Bonus? Those appearances show up on Google, helping your digital footprint grow without a single trending hashtag. The Magic of Names and Smart SEO Practices Don’t underestimate the power of your own name in a podcast title. Whether it’s your show or a guest spot, making your name searchable helps you get found. Retitling old episodes or refreshing descriptions is like giving your content a second wind—and Google loves it when you freshen things up. Newsletter Love and Thoughtful Repurposing Alicia and I both agreed: newsletters are the unsung heroes of content marketing. Sharing new and old episodes, linking to guest features, and curating themes gives your audience a reason to stick around—and gives your podcast episodes a longer shelf life. Pick Your Lane, and Stay There (Happily) You don’t need to be everywhere. Really. Pick one platform you like (mine’s LinkedIn), build a cozy corner on your website, and focus on podcasting and newsletters to draw people in. When you stop chasing the algorithm and start owning your message, marketing becomes a whole lot more enjoyable