The Clemson Dubcast

As part of Tigerillustrated.com's lengthy 25th anniversary series uncovering untold stories over that stretch of time, we continue with a glimpse back at the transformative days of 2008. Two days after a dominant victory over South Carolina that sealed the removal of the interim tag from his title, Dabo Swinney was introduced at a press conference on the third floor of the West End Zone facility. This is the uncut digital audio from that press conference, provided by Jeff Kallin and Matt Glenn of the Clemson Athletics Department. Terry Don Phillips drew an ovation toward the end of the press conference when he said: "I say with great confidence that Dabo Swinney is going to become one of the great coaches in America."

As part of Tigerillustrated.com's extensive unearthing of the history that led to Dabo Swinney becoming the figure who would transform not just a football program but an entire community, we take a glimpse back to the two-month period in 2008 when everything changed. We present the audio from some key moments during that timeline: -- The introduction of Swinney as interim coach on Oct. 13, 2008, when Tommy Bowden suggested a change to AD Terry Don Phillips and Phillips shocked many by elevating a receivers coach who had no head-coaching or coordinating experience; -- The coach's show that followed his first victory in charge, an exhilarating and vital triumph at Boston College that snapped a three-game losing streak to the Eagles; -- The press conference that followed a convincing victory over rival South Carolina, which sealed the removal of the interim title. Swinney, on what it was like to hear the crowd chanting his name as the final seconds ticked off: "I felt like Britney Spears." -- The news coverage that accompanied the press conference two days later to announce his hiring.

Patrick Sapp played football at Clemson, and now he's watching his 19-year-old son Josh play football at Clemson. What makes it most special is Patrick's 7-year-old son Miles gets to watch it all as the family makes memories of a lifetime. Sapp rejoins The Dubcast to talk about his six years on the football staff at Greenville High School, and why he chose to give it up after last season. Sapp's role as a television personality is going to increase moving forward as he contributes to FOX Carolina in various ways. Sapp also keeps close tabs on Clemson football, and he was in attendance when Trent Pearman stole the show at last week's spring game. Sapp believes Cade Klubnik will maintain his hold on the starting role, but he said Pearman's performance does make things more interesting in the Tigers' quarterback room. He also gives high marks to Dabo Swinney's hire of Matt Luke and Chris Rumph, who have brought more energy and fire to the program. "We've got to get back to the basics and the grind," he said. "We've got to be tougher. We've got to be better. We've got to be stronger. We've got to be more disciplined, and we've got to play with an attitude. I think that was the emphasis for the hires. ... You bring in guys who have the experience, who have the confidence, who have the moxie to walk out every day and challenge their players, challenge the attitude of the team. "If you watch them practice, you can see that Nick Eason, Coach Rumph and coach Luke are his attitude guys. Those are the guys who are setting the attitude and the tone for everybody. I think Coach Swinney understood he needed that on his staff."

Jerome Hall is less busy than he used to be, having given up his job as a college referee a year ago after 20 years. Yet he still teaches at RD Anderson Applied Technology Center from 8 AM to 3 PM each weekday, instructing high school students in carpentry and officiating. Four days a week, he leaves school at 3 and heads straight to the courthouse and works until 7 as a magistrate for the Spartanburg County court system. And somehow he still found a way to follow his son PJ in his final season at Clemson, which of course included recent trips to Memphis and Los Angeles as the Tigers made a stirring run to the Elite Eight. Jerome, who will turn 55 in two weeks, reflects on his son's life and what makes him one of the iconic figures in Clemson basketball history. The Hall family also shares a deep love and appreciation for Brad Brownell, whose only promise during PJ's recruitment was that Clemson would take care of him. "He was the only coach who didn't promise him a starting spot right away," Jerome said.

Had he not chosen the coaching profession, Cliff Ellis could've easily spent his life as a professional musician. In the mid-1960s, his group The Villagers was a sensation and even recorded at the legendary Fame Studios in Muscle Shoals, Ala. Ellis remembers joining Roy Orbison on stage at a sold-out concert in Dothan, Ala. "If you can perform in front of people with Roy Orbison behind you, you're going to be OK going up against Dean Smith and Mike Krzyzewski," he said. Ellis announced his retirement in December, ending a 49-year coaching career. His final 17 seasons were at Coastal Carolina, where he led the Chanticleers to 297 victories and 10 postseason appearances. His 831 career NCAA victories put him at ninth in Division I basketball history behind Krzyzewski, Jim Boeheim, Bob Huggins, Jim Calhoun, Roy Williams, Bob Knight, Dean Smith and Adolph Rupp. Ellis says the changing landscape of college athletics, namely NIL and the transfer portal, led him to walk away. He's currently writing a book about his life, and he looks back fondly on his time at Clemson from 1984 to 1994. Ellis led Clemson to its only ACC title in school history in 1989-90 when the Tigers claimed the regular-season title with back-to-back home triumphs over North Carolina and Duke. Four years later, he abruptly resigned and later took the head job at Auburn. He said he was angry over the Clemson administration's handling of the Wayne Buckingham situation in the face of NCAA scrutiny of the player's eligibility as a freshman. Ellis remembers exactly where he was on Jan. 18, 1990 when he heard Danny Ford was out as Clemson's coach. "I was playing golf with our pilot, Earle Ambrose," he said. "We were on the 15th hole at Boscobel. It was a tough, tough time. "But I told Danny at the time to tell Clemson thanks a million. Because they paid him a million dollars. And then he went to Arkansas and got another thanks-a-million. I never got those thanks-a-millions."

Tommy West has decided it's time to hang up his whistle after more than four decades in the coaching profession. "It's a young man's game now," said the 69-year-old West, who was on Rick Stockstill's fired staff at Middle Tennessee State. West has kept busy playing golf and taking care of his yard. He says the biggest question is how he'll find the fulfillment that came when he experienced success through grinding away as a coach and recruiter. West goes in-depth on his time at Clemson as an assistant under Danny Ford, and as the Tigers' head coach from 1993 to 1998. Clemson was trying to figure out what it wanted to be back then, and that meant trying to figure out how invested it wanted to be in winning football games. The facilities suffered as a result, and it was West who first came up with the idea to build a complete football-operations facility in the west end zone of Memorial Stadium. That facility finally began taking shape well into Tommy Bowden's tenure, and the first head coach to actually occupy the structure was Dabo Swinney in 2009. West shares some vivid and colorful memories of the old days, including when the fired staff got together on the practice fields in the wee hours of the morning after their final game, a win over South Carolina. They built a fire and spent hours reminiscing and connecting for a final time. Defensive coordinator Reggie Herring was so angry about the firing that he threw his Clemson apparel into the fire and watched it burn. Soon thereafter Herring was retained by Tommy Bowden and wearing new Clemson gear. West spent the next year living in Clemson as Bowden ushered in a new era. "I was a total mess," he said. "I was lost."

A decade ago, Thad Turnipseed left Alabama to join Dabo Swinney at Clemson and played a major role in turning the Tigers' football program into a cutting-edge operation on numerous levels. Turnipseed, who spent 18 months at Oklahoma under Brent Venables, returned to Clemson with his family last summer and is currently spending most of his time in real estate. Turnipseed, who recently became a grandfather, joins The Dubcast to reflect on the glory days at Clemson and whether Swinney can get the Tigers back to the top. He also expresses great concern about the state of college football and where things are headed. "My job was always solving problems, and I prided myself in being able to figure things out," he said. "I have no idea how to solve this one."

Dabo Swinney sits down to discuss the progress of his team a week into spring practice. Swinney reflects on the talent of freshman receiver Bryant Wesco and what he could bring to an offense in desperate need of playmaking. Cade Klubnik enters Year 2 as the starter feeling more comfortable in the second year running Garrett Riley's offense. Klubnik believes the Tigers are going to have weapons galore on the outside to make the offense truly lethal for the first time since Trevor Lawrence and other superstars were in the program. Clemson's spring game is April 6.

Last week, Gene Sapakoff announced he's leaving The Post and Courier after 38 years at the Charleston newspaper. One of the strange elements of his departure: The leadership at the paper hasn't given him an opportunity to write a farewell column in the sports section that featured his mug shot since the 1980s. Sapakoff joins The Dubcast to reflect on when and why he chose to hang it up, and what his next chapter looks like. He also shares a wealth of anecdotes and memories of covering the biggest names in the Palmetto State's sports history. He recalls getting cussed at by Danny Ford when he wrote a column labeling the coach the "Prince of Paranoia" in 1987. And more recently, Sapakoff was publicly blasted by Shane Beamer at a press conference after he criticized Beamer's hire of offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains. While it's natural for old-timers to lament the departure of this state's last prominent newspaper sports columnist, Sapakoff has an optimistic outlook on the present and future of sports coverage in South Carolina and beyond.

In many ways, the media and journalism industry has become almost totally disfigured over the past two decades. Yet inside Clemson's Sports Communication program there are students who find a multitude of ways to distinguish themselves. Grayson Mann is a senior who has spent his time at college starting his own podcast, writing for Tigerillustrated.com, doing video play-by-play for North Greenville basketball, and covering high school games for a local newspaper. Toby Corriston is a freshman who has already developed quite a portfolio of photography, writing and stand-up video he does on his own after Clemson sporting events. Where is the media industry heading? No one can predict that. But Mann and Corriston, who both serve as interns at Tigerillustrated.com, are positioning themselves to be marketable on a multitude of platforms post-graduation. Mann and Corriston visit with The Dubcast to share how they got to this point, and what they aspire to do hereafter.

Paul Strelow, longtime recruiting reporter and analyst for Tigerillustrated.com, is also a family man and a father of five. He's been fully devoted to the lives of his children over the years, and that's included serving as a coach of their various teams. Strelow gives his perspective on the climate at youth and high school sporting events as fans get edgier and more willing to chastise not just refs but opposing players. The state of the media industry is almost unrecognizable from the one Strelow joined as a newspaper reporter in the late 1990s. Where are things headed? What advice does he have for young people who might be interested in trying to join this industry? And what of Clemson football recruiting, with the Tigers in play for an elite recruiting class in 2025? Will the people who eviscerate Dabo Swinney for being too stuck in his ways consider changing their tune? Also, is Clemson's football program more active with NIL than is often perceived? Finally, how confident is Strelow that Cade Klubnik can give Clemson what it needs at quarterback?

Mike Noonan, fresh off Clemson's second men's soccer national title in three years, joins The Dubcast to reflect on the journey. In August of 2022, Noonan lost his father. And then this past November his mother passed away as Noonan and the Tigers were pursuing Clemson's fourth men's soccer national title in its history. Noonan opens up about his upbringing, including his father's remarkable life that included: Graduating from MIT and the Harvard Business School; Working on the Apollo Space Project; Modernizing Taiwan's rail system; Playing a role in the merger of the AFL and NFL. In addition, Mike's younger brother Mark is the commissioner of the Canadian Premier League. Noonan reminisces about first hearing from Clemson when he was the head coach at Brown. He and his wife Deb fell in love with the campus and surrounding community on their first visit. Noonan, who has believed in Dabo Swinney from the beginning, had a rough patch with the football coach when the building of the Tigers' opulent operations facility meant the displacement of Noonan's practice fields. Swinney assured Noonan he and the soccer program would be much better off in the end, and when it came time to raise money for the new soccer facility Swinney lived up to his word. "He was right," Noonan said. Noonan also delves into his love of music, and spending time in the mid- to late-1980s watching Phish once a month in a club called Nectar's in Burlington, VT. Noonan's wife spent college in the same dorm as Phish's members, one floor below. Clemson will hold a parade Saturday at 11:30 AM to celebrate the soccer team's national title.

Billy Davis rejoins The Dubcast to share what it's like having a daughter on the verge of completing a student-athlete career as a swimmer at the University of Kentucky. Davis, one of the few Clemson fans who was fully behind Dabo Swinney during a rough 2010 season, had his own doubts over the past year: He correctly predicted the Tigers would fall at Duke in the season-opener, and he was with many in wondering if Swinney would make necessary changes to his staff. Davis, who had a long career in the Secret Service, recalls the brawl at the end of Clemson's win over South Carolina in 1983. Probation meant that it was his last game in a Clemson uniform. Davis said he didn't take part in the brawl. He used it as an opportunity to run to the other side of the field and visit his girlfriend, who was a Gamecock cheerleader. Davis is a longtime subscriber to Tigerillustrated.com, and a frequent poster on the West End Zone message board.

Chris Low, longtime chronicler of college football for ESPN.com, joins The Dubcast to reflect on the recent monumental events at Alabama. Low, who broke the news that Nick Saban was retiring, said he received a tip about two hours before Saban announced it to his team. Low said Saban indicated to Alabama AD Greg Byrne late in the season that he was leaning toward retirement, but he wasn't certain of it until the morning that he actually announced it. Though Alabama contacted Dabo Swinney to gauge his interest in the job, Low believes Washington's Kalen DeBoer and Florida State's Mike Norvell were the top two candidates on Byrne's list. Low also gives his thoughts on the state of college football, which a growing number of people believe is unsustainable in its current form with NIL and the transfer portal creating fluid and unpredictable situations just about everywhere.

C.D. Davies of the 110 Society joins The Dubcast for an extended conversation about the complicated, murky world of NIL in college football. Davies believes the common narratives about Dabo Swinney being against NIL do not comport with reality, and a chief piece of evidence is the coach's very decision to hire Davies to preside over the football program's NIL operations. Davies, a 1986 Clemson grad who went on to be highly successful executive in the banking and lending industry, believes his experience dealing with regulatory authorities makes him highly suited to dealing with the NCAA's ever-changing messaging and regulating of how players are compensated. Rules explicitly prohibit pay-for-play, yet the practice is so commonplace that television announcers discuss such arrangements about specific high-profile players during their broadcasts of games. "I see that and hear it," Davies said. "That's flat-out cheating. We haven't done that, and we're not going to do it. We're going to follow the rules." Davies takes us behind the NIL curtain and shares what it's really like as Clemson navigates the process of fundraising for NIL, and arranging deals with its athletes. He says "donor exhaustion" is very real, at Clemson and everywhere else. His model for the future is exploring and creating a commercial side of NIL funding that relieves a significant amount of pressure on fans to fund yet another expensive reality of major-college athletics competition.

Mickey Plyler joins The Dubcast to reflect on Michigan winning the national title and what it means. Is Jim Harbaugh really as bad a guy as the general college football populace believes? Should Clemson fans, who have often seen their own coach trashed in the college football conversation, have some perspective on the view of Harbaugh? If Michigan were in the SEC, would the day-after conversation be asking if the Wolverines' defense is one of the best ever? What of the over-the-top reactions to Florida State's playoff snub? Are bowl games basically toast? Speaking of food, we take a detour into one of Plyler's passions: Grilling on his back porch. How best to cook a pork chop? Or a filet mignon? How does Plyler master the art of cooking pizza on the Big Green Egg?

We look back at some of the best interview segments from The Clemson Dubcast in 2023. In Part 2 we feature David Pollack, Jeff Scott and Lucas Glover. Pollack reflects on what it was like to lose his job at ESPN, and the joys he took from suddenly having a lot of time on his hands to enjoy his family. Pollack is also close with Clemson defensive back Khalil Barnes. Scott details why he's still loving being out of coaching as he coaches youth soccer and makes up for family time that was lost when he was head coach at South Florida and an assistant at Clemson. Glover shares the story of his torturous, decade-long battle with the putting yips, and how he managed to get past it by completely changing his putting stroke.

We look back at some of the best interview segments from The Clemson Dubcast in 2023. In Part 1 we feature Tim Cowan, Holden Thorp and Eric Mac Lain. Cowan, a Clemson graduate, became a bit of a celebrity when he was discovered standing behind visiting coaches after their teams won at Death Valley: FSU's Mike Norvell in 2023, South Carolina's Shane Beamer in 2022, and Pitt's Pat Narduzzi in 2016. When Cowan was a student at Clemson he owned a downtown bar called Rumors. Thorp served as chancellor of North Carolina during some of the early stages of realignment, and was a key behind-the-scenes figure as the ACC explored strategic moves. Thorp said the Tar Heels could've gone to the SEC if they wanted to, but they ended up choosing to remain in the ACC. Mac Lain, who works for the ACC Network, goes in-depth on what it's like criticizing his alma mater during some of Clemson's rougher patches the past couple years. Part 2 is coming this weekend.

Dabo Swinney had two extended media appearances on National Signing Day to discuss his signings for the 2024 recruiting class. Swinney visited with Adam Gorney of Rivals.com, then sat with the media who cover Clemson. Swinney speaks extensively on his portal philosophy, and why portal targets weren't a match for Clemson this year. He also raves about the four offensive linemen that are part of this class, all of whom will be mid-year enrollees. The latest rankings by Rivals have the Tigers' class at No. 10 nationally. Clemson plays Kentucky in the Gator Bowl on Dec. 29.

Former longtime Clemson assistant coach Rick Stockstill joins the podcast to reflect on life after 18 years as Middle Tennessee State's head coach. Stockstill was fired in late November, and he says his main objective now is trying to find jobs for the staffers who worked for him. Stockstill is full of stories from working under the likes of Danny Ford, Tommy Bowden, Lou Holtz and Steve Spurrier. His reluctant decision to leave Clemson in 2003, for the offensive coordinator job at East Carolina, might have been the most important coaching departure in Clemson history: Tommy Bowden filled the vacancy by hiring Dabo Swinney, who'd been out of coaching for two years and was well on his way to being successful in commercial real estate. After a year at East Carolina, Stockstill left to work for Lou Holtz at South Carolina. He said coaching and recruiting for the Gamecocks was strange initially because he spent so many years competing against them. "When we were at Clemson I would throw the football with my son Brent, and I'd give him signals for which route to run," Stockstill said. The signal for a go route was Stockstill tapping his head, and the name of the play was "Gamecock Killer" in reference to Rod Gardner's legendary catch of Woody Dantzler's desperation pass in a 2000 victory over South Carolina. "When we went to South Carolina, Brent was asking me why. I told him this is part of the profession, and we'll have to come up with some new signals." Stockstill's first of two seasons in Columbia was 2004, which ended in the infamous brawl against the Gamecocks at Death Valley. He remembers standing on the South Carolina sideline before the game and watching Gamecock players run to the east end zone to greet Clemson as it ran down the hill. Stockstill turned to a South Carolina staffer and said: "These boys don't know what they just did." Clemson dominated the game and won 29-7 in Lou Holtz's last game as coach. Stockstill said he hopes join a college staff as an analyst.