The Lawfare Podcast

This week, Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to talk through some of the week’s biggest national security news stories, including: For object lessons, Ben asked listeners how they intended to celebrate #RussiaDay on June 12. Alan celebrated an inedible apple. Quinta followed up on last week’s discussion to share the American Immigration Council’s analysis of the new border executive order. And Scott sang the praises of Roka, a brand of glasses that finally stays on his dumb flat face. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode, Lawfare General Counsel and Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Gabor Rona, Professor of Practice at Cardozo Law, and Natalie Orpett, Lawfare’s Executive Editor, to discuss their recent Lawfare piece examining whether a state pursuing an armed conflict in compliance with international humanitarian law could nonetheless violate the Genocide Convention. They discussed how these two areas of law intersect, their relevance to the ongoing proceedings over Israel’s conduct in Gaza before the International Court of Justice, and what the questions their analysis raises might mean for the future of accountability for genocide. You can find their article, "Can Armed Attacks That Comply With IHL Nonetheless Constitute Genocide?," online at https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/can-armed-attacks-that-comply-with-ihl-nonetheless-constitute-genocide. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Natan Sachs is the Director of the Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution. He joined Lawfare's Editor in Chief, Benjamin Wittes, to discuss the resignation of Israeli war cabinet member Benny Gantz, the fate of Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing government, and Israeli perceptions of the Gaza war. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Paul Sparrow, who served as Director of the Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library and Museum from 2015 to 2022, has written the book Awakening the Spirit of America about the war of words between FDR and Charles Lindbergh in 1940-41. He joined host David Priess to discuss his path to the FDR Library, the history of presidential libraries, how the Roosevelt-Lindbergh war of words reveals much about the American experience before and during the Second World War, why Lindbergh never ran for president, the America First movement, Roosevelt's chaotic approach to intelligence, FDR's popular legacy, and more. Works mentioned in this episode: The book Awakening the Spirit of America by Paul Sparrow The book The Plot Against America by Philip Roth The book K is for Killing by Daniel Easterman The book Those Angry Days by Lynne Olson The podcast Ultra The book Prequel by Rachel Maddow The book The Wave of the Future by Anne Lindbergh The book An Unfinished Love Story by Doris Kearns Goodwin The book The Killing Shore by K. A. Nelson Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The first criminal trial of a former president of the United States began in April and reached a verdict on May 30. As Lawfare readers and listeners know, we covered the trial in great detail. Normally based in Washington, D.C., we opened a temporary “bureau” in New York City so that we could report on each and every day of the proceedings from inside the courtroom. We produced written and oral dispatches every day on top of our usual deep-dive analysis of the legal issues at stake. So we’ve talked a lot about the trial itself. This time, we’re talking about the experience of covering the trial. Executive Editor Natalie Orpett spoke with Legal Fellow Anna Bower, Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic, Managing Editor Tyler McBrien, and Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes about how it all worked, why Lawfare’s coverage was unique, and what it was like to actually be there. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Charlotte Willner, Executive Director of the Trust and Safety Professional Association, and David Sullivan, Executive Director of the Digital Trust & Safety Partnership, join Lawfare's Tarbell Fellow Kevin Frazier and Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic to discuss content moderation in the age of AI. Following 97 self-described data labellers, content moderators, and AI workers publishing an open letter describing deplorable working conditions, Charlotte and David break down what's new and what's not about the ongoing trade-offs involved in content moderation. The group also dives into the evolution of content moderation and analyzes the effects of relatively recent regulations, such as the EU's Digital Services Act, on trust and safety work. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From March 3, 2020: The population of Africa is projected to double by 2050, giving the continent one quarter of the world's people by then. Nigeria alone will have a larger population than the United States. To the extent they aren't so already, the world's problems and opportunities will be Africa's, too, and African problems and opportunities will also be the world's. David Priess spoke about developments in African politics and international engagement with two experts from the Africa Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies—its director Judd Devermont, and one of its senior associates, Emilia Columbo. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on June 6 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes talked to Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff, Lawfare Courts Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower, and New York Times reporter Alan Feuer about the Georgia Court of Appeal's order staying trial court proceedings in the Fulton County case, what Judge Cannon has been up to in the Southern District of Florida, including scheduling days of hearings, and more. And of course, they took audience questions from Lawfare Material Supporters on Zoom. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From October 27, 2018: There is a caravan—you've probably heard something about it. Stephanie Leutert, director of the Mexico Security Initiative at the Robert S. Strauss Center for International Security and Law, has heard something about it. On Friday, Benjamin Wittes caught up with Leutert to talk about her time on the Mexico-Guatemala border traveling with migrants who are following a trail not unlike that of the caravan. They talked about why people are joining this caravan, what are alternatives to it, why certain migrants are shunning it, the factors pushing people out of countries like Honduras and Guatemala, and what it's like to be a child on the long trek to the United States. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In 2022, Georgetown University Law Center’s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection and Stafford Rosenbaum filed a lawsuit against ten Wisconsin fraudulent electors, Kenneth Chesebro, and James Troupis for their efforts to subvert the 2020 election. Earlier this year, ICAP reached two settlements with the defendants, which resulted in thousands of pages of text messages, emails, and other correspondence being turned over, providing new insight into how exactly the fake electors scheme was developed and implemented in Wisconsin and across the country. Lawfare Associate Editor for Communications Anna Hickey sat down with ICAP Executive Director Mary McCord to discuss the settlements reached with the Wisconsin fraudulent electors, what new information was revealed in the thousands of pages of documents turned over, and whether the recent criminal charges filed against Kenneth Chesebro, James Troupis, and Mike Roman revealed any new information. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Quinta and Scott were joined by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to discuss how he is coping with the end of the New York trial and to run through some of the week’s big national security news stories, including: For object lessons, Quinta recommended Zadie Smith’s new-ish novel, “The Fraud.” Scott shared a note from the archives about high cetacean fashion. And Tyler passed along an inspirational story about Osaka airport’s amazing luggage record. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today’s episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sits down with Alex Iftimie, a Deputy General Counsel at OpenAI, to talk over their recent report revealing that OpenAI has shut down several state-backed information operations using OpenAI’s artificial technology services. They discussed the operations themselves, how OpenAI is investigating and responding to such activities, and what they tell us about how the nascent artificial intelligence industry is impacting state-backed information operations, among other types of problematic behavior. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ashley Deeks, Professor at the University of Virginia School of Law, and Dr. Mark Klamberg, Professor at Stockholm University, Visiting Professor at American University, and Fellow with the Atlantic Council, join Lawfare's Tarbell Fellow Kevin Frazier and Senior Editor Alan Rozenshtein to discuss the weaponization of AI. The group explores a number of related topics including ongoing domestic and international efforts to regulate military use of AI, the national security implications of weaponized AI, and whether AI companies bear any legal responsibility for military use of their AI systems. Professor Deeks and Dr. Klamberg bring their extensive AI knowledge to the fore in this illuminating podcast. Keep an eye out for their respective forthcoming publications on military use of AI. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the wake of World War II, the United States and the Soviet Union set off on the great space race, competing to see which super power could put the first human in space and eventually land them on the Moon. As historian John Strausbaugh writes, that race should have been over before it even started. Strausbaugh’s new book, The Wrong Stuff: How the Soviet Space Program Crashed and Burned, is a harrowing and frequently hilarious account of how political leaders and engineers slapped together a space program with little apparent concern for the lives of the cosmonauts they hurled into Earth’s orbit. Moscow blustered about the size of its rockets and the triumph of its space pioneers. But that patriotic rhetoric hid the true nature of a program that was harried and haphazard, and whose leaders weren’t quite sure how to return their pilots to Earth after launching them into space. The Soviet space program stands in stark contrast, Strausbaugh told Shane Harris, to the methodical and comparatively risk-averse NASA program, which eventually overtook its rival. Books, historical figures, and near-death space walks discussed in this episode include: The Wrong Stuff: How the Soviet Space Program Crashed and Burned https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/john-strausbaugh/the-wrong-stuff/9781541703346/?lens=publicaffairs The Right Stuff by Tom Wolfe https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780312427566/therightstuff Off the Planet: Surviving Five Perilous Months Aboard the Space Station Mir by Jerry Linenger https://www.amazon.com/Off-Planet-Surviving-Perilous-Station/dp/007136112X Sergei Korolev https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-missions/sergei-korolev-life-history-timeline Yuri Gagarin https://www.pbs.org/redfiles/rao/gallery/gagarin/index.html Alexi Leonov https://time.com/5802128/alexei-leonov-spacewalk-obstacles/ More about John Strausbaugh: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/contributor/john-strausbaugh/?lens=twelve Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with author, attorney, legal scholar, and Lawfare Contributing Editor Michel Paradis to discuss the 80th anniversary of D-Day and his new book, “The Light of Battle: Eisenhower, D-Day, and the Birth of the American Superpower.” They discussed understudied aspects of Eisenhower’s unique personal and professional history, how they prepared him for leading what would become the Allied invasion of Europe, and how his actions set the stage for much of the 20th century that would follow. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rachel Rizzo, a nonresident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Europe Center, joins Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about last month’s NATO Youth Summit. Building off of her chapter “NATO, Public Opinion, and the Next Generation: Remaining Relevant, Remaining Strong,” in the 2021 book, “NATO 2030: Towards a New Strategic Concept and Beyond,” Rizzo discusses what NATO thinks of Gen Z and Millennials, the many efforts the Alliance is making to pitch to them its relevance and purpose, and the ways in which NATO could better integrate youth voices into discussions about the Alliance’s future. She also explains how and why Gen Z and Millennial views on NATO, foreign policy, and America’s changing role in the world differ from older generations. And yes, they even discuss Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From July 31, 2018: For years, Shane Harris of the Washington Post has been fascinated with the search for extraterrestrial life in the universe. But that search raises a profound question: Should we try to communicate with aliens? Is there a risk to alerting a potentially hostile species to our presence? On July 12, Shane moderated a conversation hosted by Future Tense with Lucianne Walkowicz, the chair of astrobiology at the Library of Congress, and NASA astrophysicist Elisa Quintana, to talk about the ethics of the search for ETs and the associated risks with trying to make contact. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From August 19, 2020: Late last week, the UN Security Council voted down a resolution, offered by the United States, to indefinitely extend a conventional arms embargo on Iran set to expire in October. The lifting of the arms embargo was one of the sweeteners that was part of the Obama administration's Iran nuclear agreement. Now, the Trump administration has announced it will begin the process of triggering the snapback of UN sanctions on Iran using procedures outlined in UNSCR 2231—a move that could be the death knell for the Iran nuclear agreement. Margaret Taylor sat down with Lawfare senior editor Scott Anderson and Richard Gowan, the UN director for the Crisis Group, an independent research and advocacy organization that recently released a report on the U.S. attempt to reimpose sanctions, to talk through the legal and political issues, as well as what will unfold on this matter in the weeks and months to come. To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donation at https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” was recorded on May 30 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes talked to Lawfare Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Roger Parloff about the timing of the D.C. case, Judge Aileen Cannon's denial of Special Counsel Jack Smith's gag order request in Florida, updates in the Fulton County case, the performance of Trump's attorneys and jury deliberations in the New York case, and more. And of course, they took audience questions from Lawfare Material Supporters on Zoom. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations, N.Y. Dispatch” was recorded on May 30 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Zoom. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes talked to Lawfare Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Roger Parloff, Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien, and Courts Correspondent and Legal Fellow Anna Bower about Trump's conviction in his N.Y. criminal case. Trump was found guilty on 34 felony counts for falsification of business records in the first degree. They discussed the the mood in the courtroom when the jury delivered the verdict, what this means for the 2024 election, big takeaways from the trial, and more. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/lawfare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.