Beyond Introspection: A Podcast About Neurodivergence & Identity

Pen and Harvey discuss recovery, including what it means, their own experiences, and what the roadmap can look like. Featuring: We have jobs (and it makes podcast recording hard to do); Harvey Is Forced To Define Recovery; Piano Lessons & Childhood Trauma; Don't yell at 7 year olds; Sometimes recovery just means being okay enough; "26" by Paramore; Hope. USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ Crisis Textline (both SMS and What'sApp friendly): https://www.crisistextline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People (including text and online chat options): https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-help/

Harvey and Pen discuss what it means to be proud of neurodivergence, both on a personal and societal level. Also, it's the two-year anniversary of Beyond Introspection! Featuring: Podcast origin story; The different types of pride and where they come from; Society hurts us, but we've got teeth; A hard won high opinion; Is it pride or is it a refusal to be ashamed?; It's hard to accept yourself, but wow, getting society to do it is a whole other level; Listen to neurodivergent people!; Hey, I'm proud of you. (Checkmate!) USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ Crisis Textline (both SMS and What'sApp friendly): https://www.crisistextline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People (including text and online chat options): https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-help/

Harvey, Pen, and a guest discuss the good, the bad, and the complicated when it comes to dating other neurodivergent people. Featuring: Special Musical Guest Cher; We're very sorry for using slang; Harvey has two hands and a polycule full of autism; Balancing love languages (aka what happens when you can't fix everything); "I just kind of assume that all of my loved ones have depression."; Implicit understanding is such a beautiful thing; Emotional labor and basic intimacy; Shoutout to our friend Dallas; In the end, we really do love what we have. Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey and Pen discuss what it's like to mask symptoms of mental illness and neurodivergence, why people do it, and possible benefits and drawbacks. Warning for some discussion of intense depression and references to self-harm. Featuring: Pen got cut open; What actually is masking?; Yikes, depression can get bad; No but for real, Harvey's autistic; Does It Serve You?; Sometimes you're different and you don't feel like dealing with it; You can't actually know what's going on in someone else's head, I promise; And ill-advised X-Men reference Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey and Pen discuss how neurodivergence impacts emotional communication through the lens of a recent issue they had. Feat.: Conflict doesn't have to be scary; Harvey and Pen care about each other!; In other news, neurodivergence changes how you interact with yourself and others; The worm can of emotions; Kick it, Barack. Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey and Pen are joined by Pen's dad as they talk about genetics, nature vs. nurture, and the strange things you can pass on to your children. Part 2 of 2. Featuring: A variety pack of emotional issues you can pass to your kids; Is it depression, abuse, or ADHD? Who knows! Not us; We talk about dopamine again; Frontal lobe uses: 1) Not being an ape. 2) Not accidentally kissing your best friend; If you're interested, please use us as a study! Seriously, we're very interesting; You cannot separate the parts of yourself. Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey and Pen are joined by Pen's dad as they talk about genetics, nature vs. nurture, and the strange things you can pass on to your children. Part 1 of 2. [Timestamp note to skip direct discussion of classroom animal dissection—10:23-13:42] Featuring: Join us in our studio; Father-child relationship? More like 'unintentional case study'; The most specific and strangest genetic link we've ever heard of; Genetics are really, really weird; Did you know ADHD has a genetic component?; Nature vs. Nurture is a real hard puzzle, especially when you don't have a twin for comparison Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey and Pen talk about their experiences being neurodivergent college students, including the challenges, the hurt, and the occasional actual benefit. Featuring: Being a model student means being beyond your capacity basically always; Community college deserves a better reputation, four years isn't actually realistic, and other things the university push won't tell you about; Trust us: college students are depressed and anxious; I can't focus on my homework and you freeze up in class, oh no; The fields we love can hurt us so much, but the passion we bring is an incredible thing; As much as this hurts, we really, really love to learn Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey and Pen discuss the areas they grew up in, research on mental health in those places, and the availability of resources. Featuring: When I say small town, I mean small town; Mental health resources? In my rural area? It's about as likely as you'd think (which is to say there's none); "Oh, mental health? That's under beef."; Nobody studies suburbs; McCarthysism, moral panics, and oh shoot that's why it's called "nuclear family"; Small town accountability vs suburban teen cruelty; Four options: a history major reading an essay, a high schooler trying to pass their test, a history buff who I really don't want to talk to, or Harvey. Referenced Research: https://www.ruralhealthinfo.org/topics/mental-healthhttps://www.agweb.com/news/livestock/beef/non-profit-focuses-mental-health-needs-across-rural-americahttps://www.edweek.org/leadership/adhd-other-developmental-disabilities-more-common-in-rural-areas/2020/02https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/features/national-prevalence-adhd-and-treatment.htmlhttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891422221001475https://www.trendhunter.com/keynote/talk-on-autismMore-than-safety: co-creating resourcefulness and conviviality in suburban LGBTQ2S youth outof-school spaces Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey & Pen are back for Season 3! This time, the focus is on intersectionality. To set the stage, here's an overview of the identities Harvey & Pen hold and how they affect each other (broadly speaking). Featuring: Wow, it's been a long time since we recorded; Who Are You? (the Third); A brief overview of what "intersectionality" means; Whoa, do you have enough hands to hold all those identities? (Spoilers: No); Believe it or not, our mental health and neurodivergence really do impact every area of our lives; Tell us if there's anything in particular you'd like us to talk about! Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey and Pen are joined by Demetrea Edwards to talk about the DSM, including its uses, shortcomings, and how therapy and treatment look outside of it. The second of two parts. Featuring: The last couple minutes of Part 1; Therapy is a vulnerable setting; Our perfect world of taxonomy; Here's an idea: better research; Recognizing symptom changes over time? Now there's a good plan; Mental health is a spectrum and people are complex; Treat people like people Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey and Pen are joined by Demetrea Edwards to talk about the DSM, including its uses, shortcomings, and how therapy and treatment look outside of it. The first of two parts. Featuring: Welcome back Demetrea!; Thanks Wikipedia for the useful definitions; Diagnoses: They Aren't Always Right; Please don't take this book's word over real people's experiences; Wow, this sure was written by neurotypical cis white men; We need better studies, y'all; Masochistic Personality Disorder, aka Men Hating Their Wives Referenced Wikipedia pages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disordershttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defeating_personality_disorder Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

In this episode, Pen and Harvey discuss the "fake it 'til you make it" method of building confidence, including personal experience, how effective it is, what makes it happen in the brain, and the best ways to utilize it. Featuring: Sorry about that month long break!; A story about brains, a story about cells; Pen Does A Cool Brain Hack To Not Be Nervous At Speech Competitions; Is it egotism and arrogance or is it self-love?; Turns out "I'm going to be confident" is a pretty broad statement; Harvey Tells Us Four Major Theories On Emotion; Harvey gets tricked into loving themself Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

In this episode, Pen and Harvey talk about their respective anxiety disorders and how they (unsurprisingly) impact literally every aspect of their lives. Featuring: Anxiety Refresher Course; Pen's good at public speaking, but can't talk about the weather; A diagnosis is not just one thing; Harvey's brain is Minecraft & Pen has some bug reports; Links between anxiety & trauma; Anxiety is a magnifying glass; Sure would be nice if evolution didn't make anxiety so overpowered. Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

In this episode, Harvey and Pen discuss Gifted Kid Syndrome and the effects of academic pressure and stress on children and teens - including how that stress continues to impact people throughout their lives. Featuring: We know we've said it already, but for real: The System Is Broken, Y'all; SAT vs. ACT and how they really don't matter; Standarized Test Mint Nostalgia; Hello classism, nice to see you entrenched in the public school system; Those poor honors students; When academic success gets linked to parental pride and love, you gotta know things are bad; Hey kid, we're proud of you. Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

In this episode, Pen talks about communication theory and how it can explain common miscommunications between neurodivergent & neurotypical people. (Also, they just think it's neat.) Featuring: Aristotle's been dead for thousands of years, can we please move on; Pen's editorialized class notes; "Commune" vs. "-ation"; Animal Planet: Most Extreme Communication; Society's Unwritten Rules (ugh); The value in talking trash; Put some cereal and milk in your brain. Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey and Pen discuss how mentally ill and neurodivergent people often turn to humor as a form of coping. Featuring: Mental health jokes: The good, the bad, and the unhealthy; What's "deviant" changes with context; The surprising relevance of a speech Pen competed with two years ago; "Wanna hear what I took my Zoloft with tonight?"; My brain is not your punchline; & stay tuned for Harvey's TikTok audio at the very end Note: We discuss jokes about being suicidal and having suicidal thoughts at several points in this episode. Though we make none of the jokes ourselves, phrases like "I want to kill myself" do pop up in the discussion. Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

In this episode, Pen & Harvey discuss death, dying, grief, and how we might think about it differently. NOTE: This episode contains discussion about suicide, both our own experiences and more conceptually. If this may be triggering for you, listen with caution. Your mental health comes first. Featuring: Being death positive isn't as depressing as it sounds; a'thunking about death; Mourning a stranger, mourning the living; Harvey's dead grandma & flower petals; My friend, the skeleton; Pen's communication theory corner, aka "Oops, no rituals!" Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ International Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Pen and Harvey discuss the high rate of misdiagnosis for people with ADHD, including likely reasons for it and common comorbid conditions. Note: Around the 38 minute mark, Harvey mentions & reclaims the r-slur. If that's something that makes you uncomfortable, go ahead and skip forward 40 seconds or so and you should be fine. Featuring: Say "wahoo" in the fun voice; well-meaning clinicians can still be wrong; ADHD Is A Brain Condition, Not A Behavior Issue; When I say mood swings, I'm talking theme-park level here; Secondary diagnoses are real, but oof; We talk about dopamine again; A really bad take on autism from an article I wanted to like Referenced/Related Links from this episode: https://www.additudemag.com/slideshows/adhd-misdiagnosis/ https://www.additudemag.com/mental-health-diagnosis-adhd-comorbidities/ Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ Internation Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.us/

Harvey leads a discussion with Pen on autism, including core parts of what autism is, how autistic people interact with the world, and how the world chooses to interact with autistic folks. Featuring: The Wahoo! Moment of the Week; Links between autism (mis)diagnosis & race; Breaking News: Autistic People Should Lead The Discussion On Autism! Ableist Neurotypicals Are Shocked; Our controversial stance on treating autistic children with kindness and support; Autistic, Trans, & Can't Have Dairy; Wishing Autism Speaks a very Go Away; A very big thank you to Heather! Referenced/Related Links from this episode: https://autisticadvocacy.org/https://autismandrace.com/https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/largest-study-to-date-confirms-overlap-between-autism-and-gender-diversity/NOTE: The following links are from Autism Speaks. Do not take these sources at face value. Content warning for general ableism, child death. These links are included so that listeners can get a sense of the kind of rhetoric Autism Speaks uses. https://youtu.be/9UgLnWJFGHQhttps://youtu.be/ytcC1QXyxp4 Suicide Hotline & Resources for Trans People: https://translifeline.org/ USA Suicide Prevention: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ Internation Suicide Hotlines: https://www.opencounseling.com/suicide-hotlines Suicide Hotline & Resources for LGBTQ+ Young People: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ Ways to support Black Lives Matter and find anti-racism resources: https://linktr.ee/blacklivesmatte Resources to support AAPI (Asian-American & Pacific Islander) communities: https://www.advancingjustice-aajc.org/ https://stopaapihate.org/ Resources for US Immigrants: https://www.informedimmigrant.com/ Resources to Support Undocumented Immigrants in the US: https://immigrationjustice.u