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Episode 34: Collector Sylvio Perlstein on Trading Diamonds with Man Ray

“Because Sylvio is courageous, I was able to buy more hamburgers to keep up my strength, and more paint to continue painting,” said artist Robert Ryman about collector Sylvio Perlstein, who was a patron of his at a time when few others were interested. Born in Belgium, Perlstein grew up in Rio de Janeiro, where his family moved when fleeing the Nazis in 1939. Perlstein bought his first work of art from a florist in Brazil; over the course of the next five decades, he would add more than...


Episode 33: Don’t Stop Believing, with Artist Glenn Kaino

"When people ask me how to describe the work or describe myself, I always just start by saying artist," says Glenn Kaino. "Everything stems from the art practice." The visionary American conceptual artist's work has led him to become an off-Broadway producer, a performer, a magician, a social activist and the technological innovator who helped legalize the music download platform Napster. A "horrible" trip to an art fair in 2008 caused Kaino to close his studio for a year, unhappy with...


Episode 32: Our Take on the May 2018 Auctions

Huge sums of money—more than $2.6bn—have been spent on Impressionist, Modern and contemporary art over the past two weeks in New York. On today’s podcast, Nicholas Maclean (of London and New York dealership Eykyn Maclean) and Allan Schwartzman (co-founder of AAP), discuss with our host Charlotte Burns (editor of In Other Words), what happened: what the surprises were; what trends we can detect; and what's going to happen next. Here are some choice soundbites: "It is a sign that the...


Episode 31: Wrestling With Artist Carroll Dunham

“There’s no goal to being an artist—you keep doing it and then, in theory, one dies,” says Carroll Dunham, who Allan Schwartzman describes as one of the greatest painters of the past 40 years. Art is a “kind of lustful driving forwards” for Dunham, who has moved from abstraction to figuration over the course of his varied career. Works from his “Wrestlers” series are currently on show at Gladstone Gallery in New York (until 16 June). “I wanted to try to find a male equivalent to the women...


Episode 30: Art World Outliers, With Lynne Cooke

One of the most talked about exhibitions this year, “Outliers and American Vanguard Art”, closes next week at the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC (13 May), after which it will travel to the High Museum in Atlanta and then to LACMA. Our guest today is Lynne Cooke, the senior curator of special projects at the NGA who spent five years researching the exhibition. Talking to our host Charlotte Burns, Cooke says much of the art on show was made by people on the peripheries, often in...


Episode 29: The Future Of The Museum

This week we bring you a special episode from Hong Kong, where we staged our first ever live In Other Words event on 29 March, a panel discussion on "The Future of The Museum”. Our guests included Michael Govan, director, Los Angeles County Museum of Art (LACMA); Doryun Chong, deputy director and chief curator, M+ in Hong Kong; and Allan Schwartzman. The panel was introduced by Kevin Ching, CEO of Sotheby’s Asia and moderated by Charlotte Burns. Joining us remotely was Budi Tek, the...


Episode 28: The Man Behind Bowie: the V&A’s Geoffrey Marsh

Around two million people have visited the touring exhibition “David Bowie Is”, on show now at the Brooklyn Museum (until 15 July). The blockbuster exhibition was masterminded by Geoffrey Marsh, the director of London's Victoria and Albert Museum (V&A) theater and performing arts department. He has organized several other major “immersive” exhibitions, harnessing state-of-the-art audio and visuals to tell narratives in new ways, such as “You Say You Want A Revolution? Records and Rebels...


Episode 27: What’s On The Menu, With Daniella Luxembourg & Amalia Dayan

The gallerists Daniella Luxembourg and Amalia Dayan specialize in cutting-edge Contemporary art and overlooked 20th-century art. They have in common with AAP co-founder Allan Schwartzman a passion for postwar Italian art and, during this podcast, the trio discuss the market for art from this period. They also discuss this current moment as one of real transition in the broader market, during which time tastes and demand are shifting. During the conversation, moderated by host Charlotte...


Episode 26: The Art of Criticism with Jerry Saltz

Jerry Saltz, perhaps the most well-known art writer working today, has been the senior art critic of New York magazine since 2006. During this interview with our host Charlotte Burns, which was recorded in the downtown offices of New York magazine, Saltz talks about a range of topics: from how he approaches viewing and reviewing art, to what he calls the “ass-holeness” of his social media persona. Before becoming a critic, Saltz was an artist and a long-distance truck driver, and he...


Episode 25: Dealing Art with Thaddaeus Ropac

From fetching beer for Joseph Beuys to the implications of Brexit and new borders, the Austrian art dealer Thaddaeus Ropac talks frankly about a range of topics in a conversation with our host Charlotte Burns, including the dangers of becoming too corporate; plans for his own collection; and his expectations for the art market in 2018. Recorded in London, where Galerie Thaddaeus Ropac recently opened a fifth space (there are four others across Salzburg and Paris), Ropac shares his views...


Episode 24: Norman Rosenthal on Seducing the Audience

During his 31 years as the exhibitions secretary at London’s Royal Academy, Sir Norman Rosenthal staged groundbreaking exhibitions of art including the legendary show, “A New Spirit in Painting” (1981), which brought artists such as Joseph Beuys, Gerhard Richter and Georg Baselitz to broader recognition. "Art is entertainment, but entertainment in the best sense of the word," he says in our latest podcast, speaking to host Charlotte Burns. “Museums, in the end, are like cupboards. And...


Episode 23: Infinity and Beyond with Artist Tavares Strachan

Whether hauling ice from the Arctic, partnering with SpaceX or training as a deep-sea diver, the artist Tavares Strachan works on an ambitious scale—often at the cutting edge of technology. He largely operates beyond the gallery model, instead relying on patrons, partnerships and collaborations to create innovative works of art. The Bahamian-born artist, who was recently appointed to the MIT and RISD boards, is interested in overlooked or forgotten histories and “operating in a state of...


Episode 22: Authority and Anxiety with MoMA Director Glenn Lowry

”In the particular political moment in which we live, the question of authority and voice has become increasingly important,” says Glenn Lowry, director of MoMA. ”Who has the right to speak for whom? How do we imagine someone else's voice?” In this wide-ranging conversation, Lowry describes the museum as a crucible during a ”very flammable moment” and talks about the role of culture today. He discusses technology at the museum and the value of thinking slowly. Talking with host Charlotte...


Episode 21: Emerging Art with Whitney Biennial Curator Christopher Y. Lew

“We're in a moment where we are all paying attention to what's going on in the headlines. Many artists are thinking about what kind of world their work is entering into, and how to respond to or deal with the times we live in,” says Christopher Y. Lew, co-curator of the 2017 Whitney Biennial, who talks about his travels across America researching emerging art for the biennial. For a transcript of the show, click here:...


Episode 20: Art and Desire with Walter Robinson

Artist Walter Robinson immortalizes appetites and desires in his work, painting beer, blue jeans and burgers, magazine models and pulpy paperback romances. Known as the founding editor of Artnet magazine, where he worked from 1996 until 2012, Robinson has been a habitual chronicler of the New York art world. He first flirted with success as an artist in the 1980s, making nurse paintings before Richard Prince and spin paintings before Damien Hirst. But, then, he stopped making art. Over the...


Episode 19: Talking Art with Germano Celant and Allan Schwartzman

From "Poor Art" to politics in art, in this wide-ranging conversation between curator and art historian Germano Celant and Allan Schwartzman address topics including the ways in which the American art market has defined art history; how they work with artists to realize wildly ambitious projects; the difficulties in determining whether works are authentic; corruption in art; and rewriting the history of art. For this, and much more, tune in today. For a transcript, click here:...


Episode 18: The Suit and the Sweater

The art industry is changing rapidly and, in this episode, Tad Smith (president and CEO of Sotheby's) and Allan Schwartzman discuss how they respond to the challenges and opportunities that this presents. Bringing different perspectives to the conversation, they discuss how to create change and foster innovation. "In Other Words" is a presentation of AAP and Sotheby's, produced by For a transcript, click here: ...


Episode 17: Gilbert & George

“The strength of two people together is enormous. That's why, all over the world, people and creatures are divided into two.” Artists Gilbert & George have been creating "Art for All" since they met as students in the 1960s. “In the old days, when we were socially involved with artists, they always would tell you they're always nervous of what to do next. We never had that problem. We were always really ready for whatever,” say the inimitable duo during this lively discussion about their...


Episode 16: Contemporary African Art

“Romare Bearden was asked in a 1972 interview with Camille Billops how he would define black art, and he said that black art is the art that black artists do,” says Tate's Zoe Whitley. "If someone were to say: 'What is white art?' you might say the Italian Renaissance, but you could equally say the German Renaissance, Rembrandt or English painting. Black art is as varied as that.” Joining us in London to discuss contemporary African art are Zoe Whitley, the curator and writer Osei Bonsu,...


Episode 15: Lust for Life—Collecting Art with Herbert Lust

A literature professor and Fulbright scholar turned investment banker, 90-year old Herbert Lust has one of the leading collections of works by artists including Alberto Giacometti, Robert Indiana and Hans Bellmer, among others. Lust, who in 1969 wrote one of the first books about art collecting as an investment, talks to our host Charlotte Burns about his extraordinary life, discussing his friendships with artists and passing along some advice for collectors. “Robert Indiana: Works from...