Bottom Up

Jesse Blocher is the author of a recently published book, "Wisconsin Tort Law: Products Liability," published by State Bar of Wisconsin PINNACLE®. He's also an award-winning author for Wisconsin Lawyer magazine. In this episode of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar, the conversation explores Jesse's journey into law, the challenges faced by young lawyers, the decline of jury trials, and the intricacies of product liability law. A partner at Habush, Habush & Rottier, Jesse shares insights on how young lawyers can become go-to attorneys in trial practice, tips to be successful along the way, and how writing projects have helped him develop different aspects of his practice. The sole author in the first of a three-part series on tort law, Jesse shares his writing process, and discusses how lawyers can be mentors to the next generation through writing. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Bottom Up Podcast 00:29 New Developments at the Wisconsin State Bar 01:49 Meet the Authors: Jesse Blocker and Samantha Cherny 02:43 Jesse Blocker's Journey into Law 08:01 Early Career Challenges and Opportunities 12:21 The Disappearing Jury Trial 16:55 Exploring Products Liability Law 20:44 The Upcoming Tort Law Book Series 23:21 The Collaborative Writing Process 25:20 Motivations Behind Writing the Book 27:16 The Impact of 2011 Legislative Changes 31:15 Understanding Products Liability Cases 34:35 Real-World Applications of Products Liability 38:26 Challenges in Legal Writing 41:44 Target Audience and Practical Advice

Mark L. Thomsen's path to law is unlike any other story. In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, host Emil Obviagele dives deep with Mark, a veteran Milwaukee-based litigator and partner at Gingras Thomsen & Wachs LLP. The episode explores Mark's unique upbringing in Nigeria, his return to America, and the cultural shocks he experienced. They discuss his journey into law, activism, and the importance of fighting for justice. The conversation delves into the role of lawyers in society, the impact of AI on the legal profession, and the significance of civic engagement in maintaining democracy. Mark emphasizes the need for creativity in law and the responsibility of lawyers to advocate for truth and justice in a changing world. Mark is a veteran trial lawyer in the areas of personal injury, civil rights (section 1983 claims), medical malpractice, nursing home abuse, and legal malpractice claims. Raised in Nigeria until age 12, Mark dropped out of high school at age 17 and worked as a steelworker and union representative before his East Chicago plant closed down in 1984. Three years later, Mark began his legal career. Don't miss the details of Mark's inspiring and unique journey, and the path ahead. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Unique Journeys 05:09 Cultural Perspectives and Identity 10:03 Rebellion and Activism in Youth 14:50 Transitioning to Law and Advocacy 19:34 The Role of Law in Society 24:45 Navigating Challenges in the Legal Profession 29:33 The Impact of AI on Law 34:44 Civic Engagement and Elections 39:46 Reflections on Democracy and Justice 44:31 Inspiration for Future Lawyers

Are you a family law attorney or want to learn more about family law as a practice area? In this episode of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, attorney Max T. Stephenson describes his experiences as a family law attorney with Gimbel Reilly Guerin & Brown LLP for more than a decade. Starting as a new lawyer with no family law experience, Stephenson discusses his 12-year career path and provides insights on building and growing a successful family law practice. Host Kristen Hardy and guest host Joe Forward engage with Stephenson on the emotional complexities of family law, the importance of maintaining professionalism, and the skills necessary for young lawyers to succeed in this challenging field. Max shares insights from his career, including the impact of the pandemic on legal practice, the significance of mentorship, and the evolving landscape of prenuptial agreements. The conversation also touches on the threats he has faced, but also the heartwarming aspects of family law, such as adoption proceedings. Overall, the episode provides valuable advice for young lawyers and law students navigating their careers in family law. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Family Law and the Podcast 01:12 Max T. Stevenson: Background and Career Path 04:11 Navigating the Emotional Landscape of Family Law 07:12 Learning to Manage Stress in Family Law Practice 10:19 Handling Non-Legal Issues in Family Law 11:35 Dealing with Threats and Safety in Family Law 14:08 Essential Skills for Young Family Lawyers 16:41 Civility and Networking in Family Law 17:20 Advice for Law Students and Young Lawyers 19:54 The Anatomy of a Divorce Case 22:37 Prenuptial and Postnuptial Agreements 26:27 Pro Se Litigants in Family Law 29:18 Heartwarming Adoption Cases 32:18 The Stress of Adoption Proceedings 35:24 Finding Light After Divorce 37:06 Balancing Personal Life and Legal Practice 38:21 Staying at the Same Firm: Loyalty and Growth 40:56 Mentorship and Supporting New Lawyers 43:20 The Impact of the Pandemic on New Lawyers 46:00 The Future of Legal Practice and AI

In this episode of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, host Kristen Hardy talks with former Milwaukee Circuit Court Judge Ellen Brostrom, now a mediator at Resolute Systems LLC, and Wauwatosa Municipal Court Judge Krista LaFave, also a personal injury attorney at Warshafsky Law. Both explore their unique career paths, motivations for public service, and the differences between circuit and municipal courts. They discuss the importance of courtroom presentation, the challenges with pro se litigants, and the balance between judicial duties and private practice. The conversation highlights the collegiality within the Wisconsin legal community and the significance of professional organizations, including the vital role of mentorship and networking for young lawyers, particularly women in the legal profession. Hardy and her guests highlight the evolving needs of legal organizations, the transition from judicial roles to mediation, and the significant impact of AI on the legal landscape. The speakers share insights on how young lawyers can navigate their careers, emphasizing the importance of deep preparation, professionalism, and maintaining connections within the legal community.

Exciting News! Starting in 2025, two new podcasts will join Bottom Up in a rotation of podcasts produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin. Bottom Up, co-hosted by Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy, will continue to explore topics of interest to lawyers in the early stages of their careers. They'll be back in March 2025. Two new podcasts – Listening to Lawyers and Practice Pulse – will expand the State Bar's family of WisLawNOW podcasts, giving lawyers more access to discussions that explore life as a lawyer, including law practice management, technology, and lawyer wellbeing. In this episode of Bottom Up, we talk to the hosts of the new podcasts. Both provide insight on the topics they plan to explore in 2025. Listening to Lawyers is hosted by Amber Ault, who manages the State Bar's Wisconsin Lawyers Assistance Program (WisLAP). The special project provides the Wisconsin legal community with opportunities to hear personal stories from Wisconsin lawyers about adversity, perseverance, resilience, transformation, and hope. Look for the first episode in January 2025. Practice Pulse, hosted by State Bar Practice Management Advisor Brent Hoeft (Practice 411), will focus on practice management and technology. Brent will invite experts to discuss how lawyers can leverage existing technology and explore new tools to keep their law firms healthy and efficient. Topics like marketing, business operations, and generative artificial intelligence, will also be discussed. Look for the first episode in February 2025.

In this episode of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Sam Huddleston Baker talk with Mike Sneathern, chief legal officer for the Milwaukee Bucks. Mike has worked 20-plus years for the 2021 NBA champs. The conversation explores Mike's journey from his native California to Wisconsin, his experiences in the Marquette University Sports Law Program, and the unique challenges faced by sports lawyers today, including the impact of sports betting and music rights. The discussion also highlights the importance of networking and being a team player in the legal profession, especially for young lawyers aspiring to enter the field of sports law. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guests 02:48 Journey to Sports Law: Mike's Story 06:11 The Appeal of Sports Law for Young Lawyers 08:59 Career Path and Internships in Sports Law 11:54 The Role of a General Counsel in Sports 15:04 Navigating Challenges in Sports Law 17:54 The Impact of Sports Betting on the Industry 21:12 Advice for Aspiring Sports Lawyers 30:09 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Will AI replace lawyers? That's one of the questions explored in the latest episode of Bottom Up, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin. Co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy welcome Hiriam Bradley, an attorney specializing in privacy and technology law. The conversation explores Hiriam's career path, the evolution of privacy law, and the intersection of artificial intelligence and privacy. They discuss the challenges legal professionals face in navigating developing laws, the importance of consumer awareness, and the regulatory landscape in financial services. Hiriam emphasizes the need for lawyers to adapt to emerging technologies and the philosophical implications of data privacy. The episode concludes with a call to view privacy as a fundamental human right and the importance of being diligent about data protection. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts 02:20 Guest Introduction: Hiram Bradley 05:32 Career Path and Early Experiences in Law 10:12 Understanding Privacy Law and Its Evolution 12:45 Challenges in Privacy Law 14:04 Resources for Lawyers on Privacy Law 15:32Intersection of AI and Privacy Law 18:54 Philosophical Perspectives on Data Privacy 22:28 Consumer Awareness and Privacy Literacy 24:37 Regulatory Landscape in Financial Services 26:30 Defining Companies in Privacy Regulations 29:48 Trends in AI Technology and Privacy Regulations 31:13 Balancing Regulation and Innovation 35:01 The Future of AI and Legal Jobs 42:35 Practical Applications of AI in Financial Services 48:39 Closing Thoughts on Privacy as a Human Right

When Anthony Procaccio graduated from law school in 2013, he was one of 46,776 U.S. law students to do so (the most of any year on record, and 36% more than 2023). The economy was beginning to recover from the 2007-08 financial crisis, but job seekers were still struggling. Procaccio, now the president of the State Bar of Wisconsin's Young Lawyers Division, was among many law school graduates who faced various economic challenges post-2008, including student loan debt. On top of that, he wasn't sure he wanted to practice law at all. Post-law school, Procaccio took law adjacent positions that did not require a law degree. Then it hit him: he didn't want to lose the opportunity to use his law license. It was time for Procaccio to get in the game to find work as a practicing lawyer and to find his niche. In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, Procaccio and Communications Director Joe Forward discuss the challenges young lawyers can face in finding desired employment and navigating the early years of practice. Procaccio shares his own winding path to his current role as an attorney in Milwaukee and offers advice for new graduates and younger lawyers. The conversation highlights the importance of mentorship, the stress of the job, and the need for self-care. He notes that the Young Lawyers Division is a resource for young attorneys to network, gain leadership experience, and find support. And Procaccio reiterates a common theme among all guests of the Bottom Up Podcast: there is no right or wrong path - there is only your path. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Overview 02:46 Challenges of Finding Employment 10:36 The Importance of Mentorship 25:17 Managing Stress and Self-Care

In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wiscondsin, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy discuss their experiences as young lawyers and the importance of law clerkships. They are joined by first-year associate Kate Goodhart and summer law clerk Dan Underwood, who share their perspectives. The conversation covers what employers look for in a good clerk, the importance of mentorship, and the value of doing impactful work. The hosts and guests also share their own experiences and offer advice for law students and young lawyers. Participants discuss the importance of owning mistakes and learning from them. They emphasize the need for grace from employers and the understanding that mistakes are a part of the learning process. They also highlight the significance of soft skills, such as punctuality, attention to detail, and curiosity. The conversation then shifts to the impact of technology, particularly AI, on the legal profession. The participants express concerns about job security and the impact of technology. They conclude by offering advice to new lawyers, including being themselves, embracing new learning opportunities, asking questions, getting involved, and being resilient. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Catching Up 06:13 The Value of Law Clerkships 11:10 What Employers Look for in a Good Clerk 13:28 The Importance of Mentorship in Law Clerkships 16:18 Doing Impactful Work as a Law Clerk 27:07 Seeking Opportunities and Making Connections as a Law Clerk 29:54 Owning Mistakes and Learning 32:42 The Importance of Soft Skills 37:54 The Impact of Technology on Job Security 45:18 The Role of Lawyers in Regulating AI 51:38 Advice for New Lawyers Takeaways Law clerks should be teachable, have a strong work ethic, and be willing to learn and grow. Employers look for candidates who are curious, coachable, and have a likable personality. Law clerks should seek out opportunities to do impactful work and make connections with their employers. It is important for law clerks to ask for feedback and constructive criticism to improve their skills. Law students and young lawyers should be open to exploring different areas of law and figuring out what they enjoy and excel at. Owning mistakes and learning from them is crucial in the legal profession. Employers should show grace and provide opportunities for new lawyers to fail and learn. Soft skills, such as punctuality and attention to detail, are important for success in the legal profession. Advice for new lawyers includes being themselves, embracing new learning opportunities, asking questions, getting involved, and being resilient.

Episode 19 of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, features a discussion on lawyer wellness, stress, and sleep deprivation, focusing on the unique stressors legal professionals face. Amber Ault -- who manages the State Bar's Wisconsin Lawyers Assistance Program (WisLAP) and has extensive experience in the fields of therapy, sociology, and social work -- shares insights and tips for reducing stress and improving sleep habits. Communications Director Joe Forward hosts the discussion, which also covers the WisLAP program. Takeaways Lawyers face unique stressors and challenges that impact their mental health and well-being. Reducing stress and improving sleep habits are essential for lawyer wellness and overall well-being. The Wisconsin Lawyers Assistance Program (WisLAP) offers confidential well-being support to the legal community, providing resources and assistance for lawyers facing mental health challenges. Educational events and resources, such as the Mental Health Literacy for Lawyers seminar, are available to help lawyers understand mental health issues and seek support. It's important for lawyers to recognize the signs of stress and seek help early, rather than waiting until the situation becomes critical.

Attorney Tom Watson, the featured guest in the latest episode of the Bottom Up Podcast produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, knows what it means to reinvent yourself. Tom started his career in broadcast radio. He interviewed big names like Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson, entertainer Red Skelton, and others. At age 37, Tom enrolled in law school. He's now the CEO and president of Wisconsin Lawyers Mutual Insurance Company (WILMIC). From radio to public relations, from family law attorney to legal malpractice insurance executive, Tom talks about his multi-phased career path before diving deep into the world of legal malpractice insurance, and the parade of horribles. Co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward steer the conversation with Tom, who has been with WILMIC for almost two decades. They learn that Tom approaches his role in helping lawyers with enthusiasm and deep knowledge of the legal malpractice insurance industry. Tom says estate planning continues to be a high-risk area, as claims can come from disenfranchised, third-party beneficiaries. But he also says claims that stem from cyber fraud and/or social engineering are on the rise, and lawyers should be on the lookout. Tom, a natural storyteller, shares stories about "craziest claims" he's seen in his two decades at WILMIC. Throughout the show, Tom provides advice for lawyers in their early years and beyond. That includes taking time to build relationships, being patient with success, and finding your passion. Chapters 00:00: The Great American Eclipse and Tom Watson, the Early Years 19:32: From Radio to Law 29:46: The Importance of Showing Up 38:37: The Growing Threat of Social Engineering and Cyber Fraud 52:40: The Need for Malpractice Insurance 1:02:16: Challenges in Estate Planning and Disputes 1:11:45: Other Common Areas for Malpractice Claims 1:25:01: The Flexibility of a JD in Career Choices

Ever heard of imposter syndrome? In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward interview Samantha Huddleston Baker, a partner at OVB Law and Consulting S.C. in Milwaukee. They discuss impostor syndrome and carving out paths in the early years of a legal career. Samantha shares her background and journey to law school, as well as her experience joining the law firm and overcoming impostor syndrome. She also talks about finding her path in business and real estate law. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the dynamic between partners and associates. In this episode, the hosts discuss the challenges faced by young attorneys in the early years of their careers. They advise navigating these challenges, including how to effectively use support staff, deal with imposter syndrome, cultivate trust with clients, and handle difficult feedback. They emphasize the importance of confidence, communication, and continuous learning in building a successful legal career. Takeaways Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:24 Impostor Syndrome and Carving Out Paths in Early Years of a Legal Career 08:10 Background and Journey to Law School 13:17 Joining the Law Firm and Overcoming Impostor Syndrome 23:37 Dealing with Impostor Syndrome and Fear 30:09 Defining Impostor Syndrome and Overcoming It 33:32 Dynamic Between Partners and Associates 34:58 Navigating the Early Years as a Young Attorney 46:08 Challenges Faced as a New Attorney 55:55 Using Support Staff Effectively 58:08 Dealing with Imposter Syndrome 01:00:05 Cultivating Trust with Clients 01:02:37 Comparing Career Progress with Peers 01:05:52 Handling Difficult Feedback

Simply defined, human trafficking is the exploitation of human beings for someone else's gain, according to Erika Petty, executive director at Milwaukee-based Lotus Legal Clinic, a nonprofit that provides free legal services exclusively to victims of human trafficking. As you'll discover in Episode 16 of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, while human trafficking can be simply defined, the complexity of the issue spans the nation and the globe, and hits home right here in Wisconsin. To close out January, which is National Human Trafficking Prevention Month, Bottom Up co-host Kristen Hardy sat down with Petty to discuss the complexities of the human trafficking problem. Along the way, we hear about the different ways in which human traffickers identify vulnerable people or populations and use that to exploit them for financial and other gain. We hear how victims are forced and coerced to commit crimes and give up all autonomy, making it difficult or impossible to escape, as the victim often depends on their traffickers for survival. We hear how victims are lured with promises into isolated situations, and forced into unpaid labor. "Trafficking is definitely a hidden crime and there can be red flags, but those red flags are only going to be visible if the victim is engaging in society in a way in which people are looking out for that person," said Petty, noting that traffickers know how to keep victims isolated. But Petty also provides hope, and pathways for lawyers and others to help, through the donation of time or resources. Her work and the work of Lotus Legal Clinic involves the enforcement of crime victims' rights, criminal record relief, civil legal services involving housing, credit repair, workplace protections, and other issues. The clinic also helps victims on a pathway to healing.

In 1963, Frank Gimbel was just three years out of law school when he became an assistant U.S. attorney, serving five years before switching to defense counsel. Gimbel's career as a trial lawyer, spanning six decades, has been chronicled extensively, with many awards to his name. But the early days were no walk in the park. Gimbel worked as a tax return preparer, a clothes salesman, and held other side jobs to keep food on the table. These experiences required hustle and humility as Gimbel seasoned himself into one of Wisconsin's most recognized trial lawyers. In this episode of Bottom Up, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy dig deeper into Gimbel's career, which includes a successful prosecution of former Milwaukee organized crime boss Frank Balistrieri and other high-profile cases as a litigator in private practice. Gimbel, former president of the State Bar of Wisconsin (1986-87) and founder of what is now Gimbel, Reilly, Guerin & Brown LLP, unveils many qualities and strategies that led to his trial successes. He also discusses how politics and hustle helped forge his path, the conflicts he encountered, the value of respect, and how getting involved can help lawyers build a practice. "You generate business by being in the community," Gimbel says. "While the numbers change, the formula for surviving as a lawyer after law school is not different."

As younger lawyers enter the profession, how do they collaborate and communicate effectively with older generations, who may collaborate differently? What are the current trends, challenges, and opportunities for solo and small firms in the practice management and technology space? These are some of the questions that co-host Emil Ovbiagele and Joe Forward (guest host) explore with guests Erin Ogden and Brent Hoeft. This is the second episode in a two-parter focused on solo and small firms, recorded from the 2023 Wisconsin Solo & Small Firm Conference. Erin Ogden – a partner and co-founder of Ogden Glazer+Schaefer in Madison – dives into smaller firm practice management issues (first 23:19). The pandemic, she says, caused a seismic shift in how law firms operate. In addition, younger generations are entering the profession with a whole new perspective on effective communication through the use of technology. “The way I manage is not going to be the same as someone who was [born in the 2000s],” Ogden says. “Not in a bad way. Diversification is key. They are coming up with new ideas and new ways of looking at things. In addition, we do a lot of work with [younger clients]. How do I talk to them?" She noted that email may not be a primary form of communication for younger generations. In the second segment (starting at 23:20), Brent Hoeft discusses the challenges and opportunities that rapidly evolving technology brings to solo and small firm practice. Hoeft, who started a virtual law practice as a solo practitioner over a decade ago, is the new practice management advisor for the State Bar’s Law Office Management Assistance Program (also known as Practice 411™). Hoeft highlights common technology issues, how different generations approach privacy and security (and what that means for law firms), the opportunities to save significant time and money using evolving technology, and how Practice 411 can help as a member benefit.

In this episode, recorded at the 2023 Wisconsin Solo & Small Firm Conference (WSSFC), co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward speak with Jessica Kramer, a small firm owner based in Madison, and Aiden Tharp, a solo practitioner in Hudson. Kramer was a co-chair of the conference's substantive law track, and Tharp was a co-chair of the work-life balance/ethics track. The conference theme? Working across different generations of clients, lawyers, and judges. The guests discuss this theme and how they approach it in their own practices. They also discuss the challenges and opportunities for solo and small firms. For Emil Ovbiagele, this year's winner the of John Lederer Distinguished Service Award, presented at the WSSFC, "solo and small firms are the backbones of our profession and the State Bar."

In Episode 13 of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy talk with Karina O’Brien, an attorney at Kostner, Koslo & Brovold LLC in Arcadia, Wisconsin. The topic? Rural practice in Wisconsin. The challenges. The opportunities. The shortage of attorneys in rural Wisconsin. A 2014 U.W. Law School graduate, Karina grew up in Arcadia, located 45 miles south of Eau Claire. She didn’t think she would return to her hometown to live and work, but a local law firm offered her a job out of law school, and her father championed the opportunity as a good start. "Give it a try," Karina recalls him saying. "You can always move on." Now, almost a decade later, there’s no place Karina would rather be (except maybe skiing). With a sharp wit and good humor, Karina highlights a day in the life of her rural practice, including the sense of community that comes with it. Karina said Arcadia, like many smaller towns in Wisconsin, is a place where the community is rooting for you to succeed, and the support of other attorneys in the TriCounty Bar Association is unmatched. Amid shortages of attorneys in rural areas – with many older rural attorneys retiring and few to replace them – Kristen, Emil, and Karina explore what can be done to attract attorneys to rural parts of the state. Opportunities abound, and potential solutions emerge, but where do we go from here?

Milwaukee-based attorney Christa Wittenberg, a 2012 graduate of the University of Michigan Law School, never thought she would ever work for a law firm. But plans change. Now after 9 years with O’Neil, Cannon, Hollman, Dejong & Laing S.C., Wittenberg was recently elected to serve on the firm’s 3-person Board of Directors. In the firm’s 50-year history, she is the first woman to serve in that role. In addition to her commercial litigation practice, Wittenberg will help the firm – which has approximately 40 attorneys – navigate its most important decisions. In this episode, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy chat with Wittenberg about how she got there. She provides a look at law firm structure and governance, and how to navigate new opportunities with confidence. A wife, mother, and self-described “yes person,” she also talks about her nonprofit work with Lotus Legal Clinic and how that fits in with her desire to help make the world a better place. And of course, a major theme for all episodes, the trio explores wellness and work-life balance.

Fresh off a one-year term as president of the State Bar of Wisconsin, family and elder law attorney Margaret Hickey, of Milwaukee, discusses the importance of leadership, including service to a State Bar membership of more than 25,000 attorneys. Co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy engage Hickey - the fourth consecutive woman to serve as president - in discussions about the role of State Bar leaders, including the State Bar's Board of Governors, and how leaders tackle issues important to the legal profession. Hickey also talks about some of the major (and difficult) issues State Bar leaders tackled this past year, and what the future holds. A 37-year veteran of the legal profession, Hickey uses her own experiences to provide insights for young lawyers navigating their careers.

When Makda Fessahaye was age 28, and only five years out of law school, Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers appointed her as the top administrator of the Division of Adult Institutions at the Wisconsin Department of Corrections. That was in 2019. "You go for it because when else do you get a gubernatorial appointment," Fessahaye said. She went on to become the chief human resources officer for the city of Milwaukee, and now serves as associate vice chancellor and chief human resources officer for the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. In Episode 10 of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy talk with Fessahaye about her journey. She talks about her skills as a relationship-builder, her path into top administrative positions, her father's influence, and the importance of building community.