DEI After 5 with Sacha

The cannabis industry is growing—but most people are still confused about the basics: hemp vs. marijuana, what’s legal where, and what opportunities are actually emerging for jobs, entrepreneurship, and inclusive access. In this episode, Sacha Thompson talks with Nicole Vanderhorst, CEO & Founder of W.H. Farms Co. (North Carolina), about building a vertically integrated botanical manufacturing business rooted in the industrial hemp sector. We break down the real-world landscape of cannabis in the U.S., how policy shifts shape the market, and why manufacturing and workforce pathways matter—especially for communities that have historically been excluded from opportunity. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In February 2025, the U.S. Department of Education issued a “Dear Colleague” letter that signaled aggressive enforcement around race-conscious programs—sparking widespread fear, fast policy changes, and real disruption across higher education. In this episode, we break down what that guidance set in motion, how it impacted student support and campus trust, and what student-centered leadership looks like when institutions are under pressure. We also discuss what happened next: federal judges blocked enforcement of key directives in April 2025, and later developments (including the government dropping its appeal) left the guidance effectively dead—but not before many campuses had already made changes and absorbed damage. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In this podcast swap episode of the Improve Work Podcast, host Daniela Tancau welcomes Sacha Thompson, founder of Equity Equation, to explore how team leaders can enhance their relationships with team members. The conversation delves into essential leadership skills, approaches to managing both their own emotions and those of their team, and the importance of trust in fostering a healthy workplace culture. Sacha shares her expertise in building inclusive environments and fostering psychological safety, offering listeners practical insights to improve their leadership effectiveness. Tune in for valuable strategies to elevate your team dynamics and create a more motivated, high-performing environment. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

College access isn’t just about admissions decisions—it’s about the support systems that help students arrive, adjust, and stay. In this episode, Sacha Thompson reflects on her own path into higher education and the kind of program support that helped her succeed—especially for students who are first-generation or from underserved backgrounds. She’s joined by Terrence Gresham, a talent advisor and consultant, to unpack what’s happening as colleges dismantle, rebrand, or scale back DEI-related programs—and what that means for recruitment, trust, and student success. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

There is a lot of noise right now about the so-called “end” of DEI. Some organizations are quietly backing away from their commitments. Others are changing the language but keeping some of the work. And many leaders are trying to figure out what they can still say, do, or stand for without becoming the next headline. But underneath all of that is a bigger truth: the need for inclusive leadership has not gone away. If anything, this moment is making it even more necessary. The backlash against DEI has exposed something many of us have known for a long time. In too many workplaces, inclusion was never fully built into the culture. It was added as a statement, a training, a campaign, or a temporary priority. It sounded good in public, but it was often missing from the day-to-day experience of employees. That is where the real problem lives. Because when people talk about backlash, what they are often reacting to is not just the language of DEI. They are reacting to years of shallow efforts, inconsistent follow-through, and leadership teams that wanted the appearance of progress without the discomfort of real change. And people can tell the difference. Employees know when an organization’s values are reflected in decisions, behaviors, and accountability. They also know when those values only show up on a website, in a statement, or during moments of public pressure. That gap between what an organization says and what people actually experience is where trust starts to erode. This is why the future of inclusive leadership cannot be built on performance. It has to be built on practice. Inclusive leadership is not about saying the right words. It is about creating the conditions where people can contribute, raise concerns, challenge ideas, and be seen as fully human without being punished for it. It is about how decisions get made, whose voices shape them, and what happens when harm occurs. It is about whether leaders are willing to listen when the feedback is inconvenient, and whether they are prepared to change something meaningful in response. That kind of leadership requires more than intention. It requires courage. It also requires sacrifice, which is the part many organizations still struggle with. Everybody wants inclusion until it costs something. Until it means sharing power. Until it requires rethinking long-standing norms. Until accountability has to apply to people at the top, not just everyone else. That is why so much of what has been called inclusion has felt like an illusion. You cannot market your way into trust. You cannot statement your way into credibility. And you cannot ask people to believe in belonging while they are still navigating exclusion, silence, or retaliation behind the scenes. This moment is asking leaders a harder question than “Do you support DEI?” It is asking: What kind of workplace are you actually building? Because even if the terminology changes, employees are still looking for the same things. They want trust. They want fairness. They want compassion. They want stability. They want to know that their voice matters and that leadership can be counted on to act with integrity. Those needs do not disappear because a company changes its language. They become even more important when people feel uncertainty in the culture. That is where inclusive leadership has an opportunity to mature. The future of this work belongs to leaders who understand that inclusion is not a side initiative. It is a leadership practice tied directly to culture, trust, retention, innovation, and risk. It shows up in how meetings are run, how feedback is handled, how conflict is addressed, how opportunities are distributed, and how leaders respond when someone says, “Something here does not feel right.” It also belongs to organizations that are willing to move beyond optics and into honest examination. That means looking at where the friction points really are. Where are people experiencing the biggest...

When people hear the word resistance, they often picture protests, marches, signs, and public acts of defiance. And yes, those things matter. But that is not the only way resistance shows up. That is one of the biggest takeaways from this part of the conversation with Dr. Janice Gassam Asare. Too often, people count themselves out because they assume resistance only “counts” if it is public, bold, or visible. They think if they are not on the front lines, they are not doing enough. That kind of thinking leaves too many people disconnected from their own power. The truth is, resistance can look like a lot of things. It can be loud, but it can also be quiet. It can be public, but it can also happen behind the scenes. It can happen in the streets, but it can also happen in your workplace, in your community, in your choices, and in the way you use whatever access, privilege, or resources you have. That matters, especially now. Because in moments like this, people need more than one narrow definition of action. They need room to show up in ways that are sustainable, honest, and grounded in what is actually possible for them. Resistance is bigger than protest Protest is one form of resistance. It is not the only form. Some people cannot safely protest. Some do not have the physical ability. Some are caregiving, working multiple jobs, protecting their immigration status, navigating chronic illness, or trying to survive in workplaces where the consequences of speaking too loudly are very real. That does not mean they are uninvolved. It does not mean they do not care. And it definitely does not mean they have nothing to contribute. One of the most important things we can do is expand how we think about resistance. Resistance can look like writing. It can look like cooking. It can look like opening your business to support people who are doing hard work in the community. It can look like making calls, giving rides, sharing information, offering resources, funding efforts, checking in on people, or creating safe spaces for others to regroup and keep going. Sometimes resistance is less about visibility and more about usefulness. And honestly, we need both. Allyship means using what you have This is where allyship and privilege come into the conversation in a real way. A lot of people think allyship begins and ends with agreement. But agreement is not the same thing as action. Allyship shows up in what you do with what you have. That might be your voice.That might be your network.That might be your money.That might be your role in an organization.That might be your access to rooms, relationships, information, or decision-makers that other people do not have. Privilege is not just something to acknowledge. It is something to leverage responsibly. If you have the ability to make something easier, safer, or more possible for someone else, that matters. If you can create cover, open a door, share a resource, or challenge a harmful pattern without taking the same level of risk someone else would take, that matters too. That is part of resistance. Not performative support. Not vague solidarity. Actual action. Workplace resistance is still resistance This part feels especially important because so many people are trying to figure out what action looks like when they are inside organizations that feel risky, punishing, or politically tense. And the answer is: workplace action still counts. In fact, for many people, the workplace is one of the main places where resistance has to happen. That might look like documenting harm instead of letting it get smoothed over.It might look like refusing to participate in something you know is harmful.It might look like asking better questions in meetings.It might look like protecting a colleague from being isolated.It might look like mentoring someone, amplifying someone’s contribution, or speaking up when a decision is about to create harm. It may not get called activism.But...

If you’re trying to push for workplace equity in a climate of backlash, this episode is for you. Sacha Thompson is joined by Dr. Janice Gassam Asare—organizational psychologist and author of Rise and Resist—to talk about what resistance looks like now, including the quieter, behind-the-scenes moves that actually shift systems. Dr. Janice connects today’s workplace dynamics to the long legacy of Black resistance—and shares how we can challenge the status quo, navigate organizational pushback, and keep doing meaningful work even when public-facing DEI efforts are being questioned or rolled back. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

This is Part 2 of: “The Art of War for Inclusion: How to Beat Performative DEI at Work.” In this episode, we get practical about what it takes to move from public statements to real organizational change—especially in a climate where inclusion work is being scrutinized, politicized, or quietly rolled back. We reflect on the post–George Floyd corporate response cycle, the pushback from Black employees asking for genuine action (not optics), and what “accountability” actually looks like inside organizations. We also discuss how schools and institutions have responded to pressure around DEI programming, and how leaders can think through culture-building efforts while being mindful of risk. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

A checkbox approach to inclusion creates shallow progress—and people feel it. In this episode, Sacha Thompson talks with Rolando Talbot about what it takes to build workplaces where inclusion is treated like a business function, not a side initiative. We dig into inclusion as “business DNA,” why it matters for performance and culture, and how teams can create environments where neurodiverse employees (and everyone else) can thrive—without performative efforts that fade when things get hard. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

This is Part 2 of last week’s episode: “The 7 Trust Languages: A practical way to rebuild respect, safety, and credibility.” Here, we take the framework into real life—what trust looks like when people are watching whether your actions match your values. When organizations say “we value inclusion” but people experience something different day to day, trust breaks—fast. In this continuation episode, we unpack the gap between words and actions, why it damages credibility in workplaces and communities, and what it takes to rebuild trust through consistent behavior. We also share a powerful moment from a community town hall: a resident naming the disconnect between a police department’s mission to “protect and serve” and the lived reality of their actions. It’s a clear example of what happens when values are stated, but not embodied—and why the loss of trust is rational. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of DEI After 5, I’m joined by Minda Harts to talk about what trust really looks like at work—and how to rebuild it when it’s been strained. We unpack her 7 Trust Languages framework and the everyday behaviors that shape credibility, psychological safety, and team culture. If you’re leading through change or trying to strengthen relationships on your team, this conversation will give you clear language and practical ways to move forward. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, we dive into the critical relationship between employee experience and customer experience within the hospitality industry and beyond. Our host, Sacha Thompson and this week's guest, Calvin Stovall discuss the importance of inclusion, emphasizing that erasure and exclusion can significantly impact both employees and customers. The conversation highlights that your employees are also your customers, and a positive employee experience is essential for delivering exceptional customer service. Calvin shares a powerful quote: "There is no positive customer experience until you have a positive employee experience first," underscoring the need for organizations to prioritize their teams. Tune in for valuable insights on fostering an inclusive environment that benefits everyone involved. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of DEI After Five, host Sasha welcomes Calvin Stovall, the Chief Experience Officer of Iconic Presentations, to discuss the vital role of hospitality and customer experience across various industries. Calvin shares insights into his work delivering dynamic keynote presentations focused on customer experience and leadership, emphasizing the importance of these concepts in hospitality, healthcare, and real estate. He also highlights his role in the Advanced Leadership Institute, where he is dedicated to preparing African-Americans for leadership positions. Tune in for an engaging conversation on the intersections of customer experience and diversity in leadership. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of DEI After 5, host Sacha Thompson talks to Dr. Donna Oriowo, a sex and relationship therapist and expert, about the anti-racist and anti-black sentiment that challenges the progress made in DEI circles. Dr. Donna Oriowo speaks about her work in the intersection of DEI, mental health, and sexual health, and provides insights on how we can combat these sentiments and move towards a more inclusive society. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In Part 3 and the final episode with guest Ofentse Lakwane, we explore the importance of genuine commitment from employers towards their employees, moving beyond mere lip service. We discuss how quickly employees can identify insincerity and the necessity for organizations to uphold a higher standard of care and support. They emphasize the significance of accessibility in the workplace, highlighting that everyone, at some point, may require accommodations to succeed. The conversation also touches on the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, which has altered the way many individuals experience disabilities and necessitated a more inclusive approach in professional settings. Tune in for insights on fostering a supportive work environment that truly values employee well-being. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In this week's episode of DEI After 5, we continue our engaging conversation with Ofense Lakwane, diving deeper into the concept of intentionality in creating inclusive workplaces. We explore the distinction between performative actions and genuine efforts, highlighting the importance of not just checking boxes, but truly understanding and addressing the needs of all individuals. A powerful example is shared about the misuse of a wheelchair-accessible stall, illustrating how organizations sometimes fail to deliver on their commitments to accessibility. We discuss the need for organizations to celebrate their successes while also acknowledging areas for improvement, emphasizing that fostering an inclusive culture requires ongoing effort and awareness. Join us as we reflect on what it truly means to create spaces where everyone feels valued and included. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of DEI After 5, host Sacha welcomes accessibility expert Ofentse Lakwane, who discusses the importance of creating truly accessible workplaces rather than just going through the motions with checkbox solutions. Originally from South Africa and now based in the UK, Ofentse brings a unique perspective to the inclusive workplace landscape, with a background in technology consulting, system development, education, and youth unemployment. The conversation explores her startup, Wakari, which conducts accessibility audits and provides training to help organizations build meaningful accessibility practices. Ofentse shares her passion for this work, rooted in her own lived experiences, and emphasizes the need for intentionality in fostering inclusive cultures. Tune in for insights on enhancing workplace accessibility and making a real impact on inclusion efforts. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of DEI After 5, we delve into a pivotal article from Big Think, discussing five key recommendations that will reshape leadership development by 2026. The host emphasizes the importance of aligning learning initiatives with business strategies, ensuring that leadership training reflects the core principles of an organization. They highlight the significance of creating a cohesive architecture for learning and development that resonates with leadership principles, moving beyond mere values. This conversation is essential for anyone looking to understand the future direction of organizational training and development, making it relevant across various industries. Tune in to explore how these insights can impact your organization’s approach to learning and development. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit deiafter5.substack.com/subscribe

Being a guest on the HCI Podcast gave me the chance to talk about something I care deeply about: how psychological safety becomes the catalyst for workplaces where people can show up fully, speak openly, and actually thrive. At The Equity Equation, this isn’t theory—it’s the core of the work we do every day with leaders, teams, and organizations who want to build cultures where people feel respected, supported, and able to contribute without fear. Why Psychological Safety Matters Psychological safety isn’t a trendy buzzword. It’s a real, human need. At its heart, it means people feel safe enough to take risks—ask a question, share a new idea, admit a mistake, or offer a different point of view—without worrying that it will be used against them later. That’s the foundation of inclusion. You can have the best policies, the most beautifully designed training, or the most diverse team, but if people don’t feel safe enough to speak up, none of it sticks. On the podcast, I talked about how psychological safety has to be an ongoing practice—not something organizations revisit only when there’s a crisis or a compliance requirement. It’s built through consistent actions, honest conversations, and leaders who understand the impact they have on people’s experiences. Where Psychological Safety and Inclusion Meet There’s no way around it: conversations about inclusion have become politicized in ways that often shut people down before the work even begins. But when you strip away the noise, most of us want the exact same thing at work—to be needed, wanted, and valued. Psychological safety is what makes those things possible. When people feel safe, they offer ideas more freely. They speak up about behavior or practices that aren’t working. They share concerns before they become issues. They participate fully instead of holding back. This is inclusion in action—not a checklist, not a statement on a wall, but everyday behaviors shaped by trust. And one of the most important outcomes of psychological safety is that it gives people permission to advocate for themselves and for others. Advocacy isn’t reserved for certain roles or identities. Anyone can notice when something isn’t working for their colleague or their team. Anyone can be part of building a better culture. Allyship Takes More Than Good Intentions We also talked about allyship—and how often the word gets misused. You can’t call yourself an ally without actually doing the work. Allyship isn’t a title; it’s a practice. It’s a choice to use whatever privilege you have to challenge harm, disrupt bias, and make sure people feel supported. This work doesn’t stop the moment it gets uncomfortable. And it doesn’t end with a social media post or a corporate statement. Real allyship looks like risk. It looks like stepping in. It looks like asking yourself: “What am I willing to do—or give up—to make sure someone else is treated fairly?” That kind of courage is only possible in environments where psychological safety already exists. The two are inseparable. Equity Requires Understanding People as Individuals The conversation turned toward equity, and I shared one of my favorite analogies: raising twins. You may love your children equally, but you don’t support them the same way. They need different things to grow. Workplaces are no different. Equality gives everyone the same resources.Equity gives people what they need to succeed. Leaders who understand this spend less time managing tasks and more time understanding the humans doing the work. Employees today want support, coaching, and mentorship—not just direction. They want leaders who can guide, not just supervise. That requires emotional intelligence. It requires curiosity. And yes, it requires psychological safety, because people won’t tell you what they need if they don’t feel safe doing so. Coaching as a Tool for Inclusion One of the things I emphasize often—both in my coaching practice and in the podcast...

Creating spaces where people feel safe, respected, and able to show up as their full selves isn’t just “nice to have” anymore—it’s necessary. As conversations about diversity and inclusion get quieter in some rooms, the need for brave, supportive communities grows louder. Whether you’re learning, leading, or simply trying to navigate today’s workplace culture, empathy, curiosity, and belonging are the foundation of any environment where people can thrive. This theme came through powerfully in my conversation with Gemma Toner of Tone Networks. Her work offers a clear example of what’s possible when we intentionally build communities that put people first. Safe Spaces Are a Lifeline In a moment where formal DEI programs are being scaled back or eliminated, people still need places to learn, ask questions, and connect without fear of being judged. That’s where platforms like Tone Networks shine. Their community was built with accessibility in mind—not just in terms of content, but in terms of comfort. Instead of traditional, rigid learning structures, they create experiences where people can engage, reflect, and grow at their own pace. Anonymous questions, bite-sized content, and a truly welcoming environment make it easier for folks to step in without feeling like they need to perform or “get it right.” When people feel safe, they’re more willing to stretch, listen, and understand. And that matters now more than ever. Empathy as the Entry Point If safe spaces are the goal, empathy is the door we walk through to get there.Empathy doesn’t require us to agree with someone; it requires us to try to understand them. It’s slowing down long enough to ask, “What might be true for them right now?” When we give people grace—recognizing that a tough moment doesn’t define their whole character—we build trust. That trust becomes the foundation for deeper conversations, more honest reflection, and more courageous learning. And it doesn’t end with others. Empathy toward ourselves—especially when we’re overwhelmed or unsure—helps us stay grounded and curious rather than defensive. Curiosity Keeps Us Connected Curiosity helps us move beyond our own lenses. Every one of us brings multiple dimensions of identity into a room—race, gender, family roles, lived experiences, culture, values, and more. Some of those things are visible. Others are not. When we lead with curiosity instead of assumptions, we create space to understand the fuller picture of someone’s identity. This shift moves us from “I know what you need” to “Help me understand your experience.” That mindset makes room for people to bring their whole selves—not just the parts they think will be accepted. Inclusion Means Embracing Our Multidimensional Lives Inclusivity isn’t about building spaces for one group—it’s about building spaces where people with a range of identities feel seen, heard, and supported. Yes, some spaces intentionally center marginalized voices to address the gaps they experience. But that doesn’t make them exclusionary. It means there’s a purpose and a point of connection. It means people get the chance to be understood without having to defend their existence. When everyone is welcomed and encouraged to learn from each other’s lived experiences, communities become richer and more resilient. It’s the opposite of division—it’s intentional connection. Respect and Community Hold It All Together A community can only be as strong as its agreements. Tone Networks models this beautifully by setting boundaries around respect, accountability, and compassion. Those expectations help shape a culture where people feel like they can speak freely and know the space will be held with care. The same applies in workplaces, classrooms, and everyday life.Clear expectations help us protect the emotional safety of the people around us. And when people feel safe, they show up more fully—not just as employees or learners, but as human beings. Personal Growth Is Part of...