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Risk Management Show

Business & Economics Podcasts

On The Risk Management show, we discuss the experiences and ideas behind what's working in Risk Management right now in our risky world. You'll hear interviews with risk managers, CEOs and thought leaders who have compelling stories to share, new insights and just conversations with top professionals operating in the trenches to help you do your work better. Episodes will feature topics such as: risk management, cyber security, credit risk, market risk, governance, fintech, regtech, risk and compliance, AML, fraud and other related topics.

Location:

Netherlands

Description:

On The Risk Management show, we discuss the experiences and ideas behind what's working in Risk Management right now in our risky world. You'll hear interviews with risk managers, CEOs and thought leaders who have compelling stories to share, new insights and just conversations with top professionals operating in the trenches to help you do your work better. Episodes will feature topics such as: risk management, cyber security, credit risk, market risk, governance, fintech, regtech, risk and compliance, AML, fraud and other related topics.

Language:

English


Episodes
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AI in Legal & Compliance: Risks of Falling Behind with Chris Maguire

9/4/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we explore the transformative impact of AI in legal and compliance with Chris Maguire, General Manager of Product and Industry at Thomson Reuters. Discover how AI is reshaping workflows, driving efficiencies, and addressing critical challenges in contract management, compliance, and risk forecasting. Chris shares his insights on the importance of having a well-developed AI strategy to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving landscape. We also discuss predictive analytics, anti-money laundering advancements, and the growing strategic role of legal teams in enterprise risk management. If you want to be our guest or suggest someone, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line “Podcast Guest.” 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:22:14

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Building modern Third-Party Risk Management programs with Eric Hensley

8/26/2025
Prevent third-party data breaches with this proven strategy! In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we discuss how organizations can mitigate cyber risks in their supply chain by implementing modern third-party risk management systems. In this Risk Management Show episode with Eric Hensley, CTO and CSO at Aravo, a leader in third-party risk and resilience solutions powered by intelligent automation. Eric shares his insights on why indirect relationships with third and fourth parties often become entry points for attackers and how traditional IT risk assessments fall short in today’s interconnected tech environment. We explored practical strategies for aligning IT, security, and procurement functions to ensure accountability, and Eric highlights the role automation and AI play in scaling effective risk management processes. If you’re a Chief Risk Officer, cyber security leader, or simply looking to enhance your organization’s sustainability and resilience, this episode is packed with actionable advice. Don’t miss Eric’s unique perspective on breaking down silos and rethinking how organizations view their supply chains. If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line "Guest Proposal." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:23:12

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New AI strategies to fight and prevent financial fraud at scale with Ahikam Kaufman

8/18/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we explore top fintech trends reshaping the future of financial services and new AI strategies to fight and prevent financial fraud at scale with Ahikam Kaufman, CEO and Co-Founder of SafeBooks AI. Ahikam brings his expertise as a financial technology leader and AI innovator to discuss how AI is transforming financial data governance, enhancing fraud prevention strategies, and reshaping the future of fintech. Discover how AI-powered automation is redefining compliance, sustainability, and operational accuracy in financial services. We also dive into top fintech trends, the challenges of scaling AI across large institutions, and its potential to revolutionize customer experiences and fraud detection. Learn what legacy banks can adopt from fintech startups and how AI can drive innovation in risk management and cyber security. If you want to be our guest or suggest someone, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject "Podcast Guest." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:29:03

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Why banks miss out on millions of lending opportunities and how AI transforms credit decision-making with Daniel Goldstone

8/12/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we explore why banks miss out on millions of lending opportunities and the future of lending with Daniel Goldstone, Co-Founder and CEO of RangeTeller. Daniel shares his expertise in fintech and AI, highlighting how explainable AI (XAI) and flexible systems are transforming credit decision-making. Discover why traditional credit scores fall short, how biases exclude creditworthy borrowers, and how transparent lending strategies can unlock hidden opportunities for SME lenders. We discussed how adopting innovative tools like RangeTeller enables banks and non-bank lenders to expand access to credit, enhance profitability, and maintain risk levels. Daniel also breaks down how local data and explainable AI empower lenders to outpace competition in today's volatile market. Whether you're a financial leader or simply curious about the future of lending, this conversation offers valuable insights into reshaping credit risk management. If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject "Podcast Guest Request." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:21:02

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Master Agile Sourcing: AI's Role in Supply Chain Success with Sam Jenks

8/6/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we explore the transformative role of AI in supply chain success and mastering agile sourcing. Boris Agrenovich, founder and CEO of the Global Risk Community, is joined by Sam Jenks, Chief Revenue Officer at Kodiak Hub, an innovative supplier relationship management platform. Together, they discuss strategies for navigating geopolitical risks, tariffs, and disruptions while leveraging AI and big data to enhance procurement precision and sustainability. We also examine the shift from traditional supplier strategies to agile sourcing techniques, the importance of understanding vendor tiers, and the integration of technology in risk management. Sam shares insights on reshoring, nearshoring, and the future of AI-driven systems in procurement, emphasizing the critical need for businesses to adapt and innovate in today’s volatile landscape. If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line: “Guest Proposal – Risk Management Show.” 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:23:34

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Master Risk Monitoring: Steps to Simplify & Succeed with Carol Williams

8/4/2025
Master risk monitoring with practical steps to simplify and succeed in this insightful episode of GRC Chats. In this episode, we discussed the essential strategies for effective risk monitoring with Carol Williams, CEO of Strategic Decision Solutions and a leading expert in enterprise risk management. Carol shared actionable insights on monitoring objectives, assessing key risks, and aligning action plans with business goals. She also highlighted the importance of understanding internal and external contexts, utilizing metrics, and adopting a step-by-step approach for lasting success. If you want to be our guest or suggest one, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with "Podcast Guest" in the subject line. 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:10:22

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Secrets to a Successful Business Exit with Cameron Bishop

7/29/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management Show Podcast, we uncover the secrets to a successful business exit with Cameron Bishop, Managing Director and Partner at Raincatcher. Cameron shares invaluable insights into preparing for a business sale, avoiding common mistakes, and maximizing value. From managing customer concentration to understanding emotional challenges, this discussion is essential for business owners planning their next big step. Learn how risk management, strategic planning, and proper valuation can transform your exit strategy. We discussed key factors such as succession planning, financial preparation, and the importance of understanding buyer expectations. With over 50 companies bought and sold under his leadership, Cameron’s expertise is unmatched. This episode also delves into the unique challenges faced by retiring business owners, especially in underserved markets like the lower middle market. If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject "Podcast Guest Request." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:36:43

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Hiring Smart: Avoiding Costly Leadership Mistakes with Linda Henman

7/28/2025
In this episode of GRC Chat, we explore "Hiring Smart: Avoiding Costly Leadership Mistakes" with Linda Henman, a seasoned consultant with over 40 years of experience helping decision-makers across industries. Linda shares valuable insights into identifying effective leaders, the critical role of decision-making in leadership, and how organizations can avoid the pitfalls of bad hires. She emphasizes the importance of evaluating critical thinking, learning agility, and quantitative reasoning when selecting top executives, as well as the impact of personality traits on leadership success. If you're in risk management, cyber security, sustainability, or are a Chief Risk Officer seeking fresh perspectives, this episode is packed with actionable takeaways. Linda also discusses the traps leaders often fall into, such as failing to frame issues correctly, control challenges, and cognitive overload, offering practical strategies to overcome them. If you want to be our guest or suggest someone for the show, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject "Podcast Guest." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:16:54

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AI Risk Management: Guardrails You Must Implement Now with Aayush Choudhury

7/24/2025
AI Risk Management is essential, and in this episode, we discussed the critical guardrails you must implement now to keep your AI applications secure and trustworthy. Featuring Aayush Choudhury, CEO of Strut Automation, this conversation delves into key strategies for dependability in AI systems, tackling challenges like data leaks, unauthorized access, and prompt injection. Aayush brings deep expertise in GRC automation, sharing insights on ISO 42001, NIST AI RMF, and OWASP's top 10 for AI security. If you're navigating AI risk management in customer-facing or internal applications, this episode offers valuable guidance on designing robust frameworks and controls from the start. Learn how to safeguard sensitive information and ensure responsible AI use while staying ahead in an evolving digital landscape. If you want to be our guest or suggest someone, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with "Guest Suggestion" in the subject line. 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:11:32

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Hidden PCI DSS Risks in Everyday AI Use with Trevor Welsh

7/20/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we uncover the hidden PCI DSS risks in everyday AI use with Trevor Welsh, VP of Product at Witness AI. This insightful discussion dives into the critical intersections of AI, compliance, and cyber security. Discover the challenges of integrating AI under PCI DSS, the dangers of data leakage, and how to tackle the "black box" problem in AI models. Trevor shares his extensive expertise in cyber security, compliance, and risk management, offering actionable strategies for proactive AI governance and protecting sensitive cardholder data. Whether you're a Chief Risk Officer, compliance manager, or simply interested in sustainability and risk management, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways. If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line "Guest Proposal." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:22:54

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AI vs Human: The Future of Fraud Prevention with Iremar Brayner

7/17/2025
In this episode of GRC Chat, we tackle the pressing topic of "AI vs Human: The Future of Fraud Prevention" with Iremar Brayner, a seasoned fraud prevention and risk management professional with over 17 years of experience. Currently leading fraud prevention at G2A, the world’s largest digital entertainment platform with over 35 million users, Iremar shares invaluable insights into the evolving landscape of fraud mitigation across industries. We discussed real-world examples such as first-party fraud, social engineering scams, and the challenges posed by fraudsters leveraging AI to scale their attacks. Iremar explains how industries, particularly digital entertainment, face unique hurdles due to low average order values and the fast-paced customer demands for real-time responses. He also emphasizes the importance of combining human expertise with AI technology to create efficient and emotionally informed fraud prevention strategies. If you want to be our guest or suggest one, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line “Guest Proposal.” 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:13:55

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Quantify Cyber Risk: The New Imperative for Businesses with Asdrúbal Pichard

7/8/2025
Quantifying cyber risk is now a necessity for businesses navigating the evolving threat landscape. In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we discussed why quantifying cyber risk is the new imperative for businesses. Our guest, Asdrúbal Pichardo, CEO of Squalify—a cyber risk quantification platform backed by Munich Reinsurance—shares how their top-down approach to cyber risk quantification is transforming the way companies prioritize cybersecurity investments and communicate with boards. We explored real-world examples, common pitfalls in cybersecurity investment, and how benchmarking cyber posture can elevate your strategy. If you’re a Chief Risk Officer, CISO, or CFO looking to align strategies and speak the same language about cyber security and risk management, this episode provides the insights you need. Plus, learn about Squalify’s CRQ readiness assessment tool and how it supports organizations in making informed decisions. Please check the Squalify’s CRQ Readiness Assessment https://squalify.fillout.com/t/5dGf2f8tmcus If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line "Guest Proposal." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:27:01

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AI Regulations: What Risk Managers Must Do Now with Casper Bullock

7/7/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we dive into the critical topic of "AI Regulations: What Risk Managers Must Do Now." Join host Boris Agranovich and special guest Caspar Bullock, Director of Strategy at Axiom GRC, as they tackle the challenges and opportunities businesses face in navigating risk management, cybersecurity, and sustainability in today’s rapidly evolving landscape. We discuss the growing importance of monitoring AI developments, preparing for upcoming regulations like the EU AI Act, and setting clear internal policies to meet customer demands and legal requirements. Kasper shares his expert perspective on building organizational resilience, the ROI of compliance programs, and addressing third-party risks in a complex supply chain environment. Whether you're a Chief Risk Officer, a compliance professional, or a business leader, this conversation offers actionable insights to help you stay ahead of emerging trends. If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line “Podcast Guest.” 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:23:31

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Are Enterprises Truly Ready for AI? 🤔 with Santosh Kaveti

6/23/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we discussed the challenges and strategies for operationalizing AI securely and at scale. Our guest, Santosh Kaveti, Founder and CEO of ProArch, shared his expert insights on AI strategy, cybersecurity, and compliance. ProArch, a top Microsoft partner, specializes in bridging the gap between AI, cloud infrastructure, and security, making them a leader in helping enterprises implement AI effectively. We explored why many enterprises struggle with AI readiness, literacy, and data risks, and outlined the importance of understanding AI risks like data poisoning and prompt injection attacks. Santosh emphasized building robust data governance, implementing continuous monitoring, and maintaining human-in-the-loop approaches to ensure secure and compliant AI systems. He also shared practical frameworks for mitigating risks, ensuring compliance, and achieving transparency in AI-driven decisions. If you want to be our guest or suggest one, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line "Guest Proposal." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:25:56

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AI Risk Layers EXPLAINED: Models, Applications, Agents with Walter Haydock

6/16/2025
In this episode of GRC Chats, we explore "AI Risk Layers EXPLAINED: Models, Applications, Agents" with Walter Haydock, founder of StackAware and a leader in AI risk management and cybersecurity. Walter shares his expert insights on the three critical layers of AI risk—models, applications, and agents—and discusses how organizations can navigate these complexities. From the importance of data provenance at the model level to potential chain reactions in AI agents, this conversation is packed with actionable strategies for effective risk mitigation and governance. We discussed how businesses can implement AI policies, maintain a robust asset inventory, and assess risks to protect their operations from cybersecurity, privacy, and compliance challenges. Walter also highlights the growing role of AI in every industry and why proactive risk management is essential for sustainability and success. If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line “Guest Proposal.” 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:12:36

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FedRamp 20X Explained: What CSPs Must Know in 2025 with Travis Howerton

6/11/2025
Discover everything cloud service providers (CSPs) need to know about the FedRamp 20X pilot program and its transformative impact on Risk Management in 2025. In this episode of the Risk Management Show, Boris Agranovich, CEO of Global Risk Community, interviews Travis Howerton, Co-Founder and CEO at Regscale, a leading voice in Cyber Security and AI-driven solutions. Together, they explore how they streamlines authorization processes, enhances cloud security, and balances innovation with robust security standards. During the discussion, Travis shares insights on automating compliance through AI, addressing regulatory challenges, and creating opportunities for CSPs and federal agencies. Learn how innovations like compliance as code and automation are shaping the future of cloud security and sustainability. If you're a Chief Risk Officer or a professional in the cybersecurity space, this is a must-watch for actionable strategies and expert advice. If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line "Guest Proposal." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:25:34

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Ethics Gaps EXPOSED: Insights from 2025 Compliance Trends with Ty Francis

5/26/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management show podcast, we explore key insights from the 2025 Compliance Trends report with Ty Francis, Chief Advisory Officer at LRN Corporation. With over 20 years of experience in ethics and compliance, Ty shares groundbreaking findings from the annual Ethics and Compliance Program Effectiveness Report, revealing critical benchmarking gaps, generational divides, and new strategies for building resilient, high-impact compliance programs. We discuss actionable takeaways, including how high-impact programs leverage data analytics and automation to manage compliance effectively, the widening gap between senior leadership and middle management, and the role of generational attitudes in shaping workplace ethics. Ty also emphasizes the importance of empowering middle management, fostering organizational justice, and utilizing data-driven tools to allocate resources more efficiently. Whether you're a Chief Risk Officer or someone passionate about Risk Management, Cyber Security, and Sustainability, this conversation offers invaluable perspectives to strengthen your organization's ethical foundation. If you want to be our guest or suggest someone for the show, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line “Podcast Guest Proposal.”

Duration:00:26:04

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Rethinking Credit risk, behavioral data and financial inclusion with Michele Tucci

5/20/2025
In this episode of the Risk Management Show, we rethink credit risk with alternative data alongside Michele Tucci, co-founder and Chief Strategic Officer at Credolab. Michele shares his extensive global career journey, from working with Capital One Bank and Banca Intesa to driving innovation at CredoLab, a leader in leveraging behavioral biometrics and device metadata to revolutionize credit scoring. We discussed how Credolab's privacy-consented approach transforms smartphone data into actionable insights, enabling mainstream financial inclusion and enhancing risk assessment accuracy. Michele also tackled misconceptions about credit scoring, the challenges of financial inclusion, and the critical role of alternative data in addressing data asymmetry. Discover how behavioral patterns, from keystroke cadence to app usage, can predict creditworthiness while preserving privacy. If you want to be our guest or suggest someone, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line "Guest Proposal." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:30:23

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6 Steps to Build True Cyber Resilience in 2025 with David White

5/14/2025
Discover the 6 Steps to Build True Cyber Resilience in 2025 with David White, President and Co-founder of Axio. In this insightful episode of the Risk Management Show, we discussed actionable strategies to enhance cybersecurity fundamentals, prioritize risk investments, and foster a culture of resilience. David draws on decades of experience in cyber risk quantification and operational resilience to share how companies can prepare for and recover from major events like ransomware attacks. Learn why financial modeling is key to aligning cybersecurity with business risk management and how tabletop exercises can strengthen your organization’s preparedness. If you want to be our guest or suggest a speaker, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line “Guest Proposal.” 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:30:24

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Deep Fake Threats: Why Executives Are Prime Targets with Joshua McKenty

5/9/2025
Executives are increasingly becoming top targets in the world of deep fake threats and AI-powered cyber security risks. In this episode, we explore why high-trust leaders, such as those in finance and legal roles, are especially vulnerable to these evolving threats. Our guest, Joshua McKenty, CEO of Polyguard and former Chief Cloud Architect at NASA, shares his expert insights into the rapid advancements of deep fake technology and the risks it poses to executives and organizations alike. We discussed real-world case studies, including a $25 million fraud in Hong Kong, the psychological tactics behind synthetic fraud attacks, and the urgent need for organizations to rethink risk management strategies. Joshua emphasizes proactive measures to defend against these threats, touching on critical habits for executives to adopt and why traditional training methods may no longer be sufficient. If you're passionate about cyber security, risk management, and sustainability, or if you're a Chief Risk Officer looking to stay ahead of emerging threats, this episode is packed with actionable insights and expert advice. If you want to be our guest or suggest a guest, send your email to info@globalriskconsult.com with the subject line: "Guest Proposal." 🌐 Join our community for even more insights: Online Community: https://globalriskcommunity.com/ LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/globalrisk-community/ LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3701313/ Academy platform: https://globalriskacademy.com/courses/

Duration:00:38:47