Audio Branding

“If you don’t make the video with audio in mind first, that’s the difference between, you know, a 14% click-through rate versus, you know, a 2% click-through rate. And a lot of people don’t tie those two together, that it matters. It’s something that people should be focusing on with a lot of time and energy.” – Nikolaj Kloch This week’s guest is a videographer, content creator, and former aerospace engineer who helps speakers, entrepreneurs, and brands elevate their presence using impactful video that actually delivers. With a background in both engineering and creative production, he brings a rare mix of precision and artistry to his work, and he’s worked with speakers from TEDx stages to Fortune 500 boardrooms, helping them stand out, connect with audiences, and grow their influence. His name is Nikolaj Kloch, and he’s passionate about the power of sound and its impact on visuals. Stay tuned as he shares his insights on why audio isn’t just important – it’s essential. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - The Power of Audio in Marketing As we start off our discussion, Nikolaj recalls one of his first memories of sound, a Lego commercial his brother starred in when they were children. “They actually had to bring in a mic and he just hit the blocks over and over to get the sound crumbling,” he recalls. “And you know, you don’t put those together as a kid until you get older, but I can always hear those blocks crumbling.” He shares how his background as an aerospace engineer took a surprising turn towards audio production, and the common threads between the two. “A lot of people think they don’t translate as much,” he explains, “but it’s one of those things where, you know, audio is a great example of the nitty gritty. There are specific engineers that dive into this every single day, and spend nothing else for their time.” (0:09:12) - Mastering Precision Audio Recording We talk about precision audio, just what that phrase really means, and the extensive background that getting the most out of audio can require. “It’s kind of like Picasso saying he won’t sell his little picture on his napkin because he’s taken so much time learning this,” Nikolaj says. “And I feel like that directly ties into this, because it’s really precision. You know they have to line up perfectly.” As the first half of our talk wraps up, Nikolaj shares how he aims to create the ideal environment for an on-site recording and how he helps clients work around some less-than-ideal ones. “I’m going to be reusing this over and over,” he says. “So I’m always like, please, let me at least talk to them and see what their setup is, let’s dive into it a bit. They usually get a little annoyed, but it makes a big difference.” Episode Summary

“[What] a lot of sonic branding agencies aren’t aware of is that sonic branding can also be used as a tool to address a concern that the client might have. So, for example, a new competitor has come in and now they feel dated. Okay, let’s write a sonic branding that’s based around being modern. Okay, they’ve had a big knock on trust, like I mentioned before, with a data breach. This is a great opportunity to write a sonic branding that builds customer trust. So, it can be used as another mode along with your visuals, along with your tone of voice. Your branding tone of voice is in, like, the words that are spoken, not the like the language, right? It’s a tool to convey your brand.” – Dr. Thomas Dickson This episode is the second half of my conversation with musicologist and sonic branding strategist Dr. Thomas Dickson as he shares his thoughts on maintaining a long-term branding, the growing use of AI for everything from monitoring to mock-ups, and the versatility of an effective sonic logo. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:01) - Impact of Sonic Branding Variations My conversation with Dr. Dickson picks up as we talk about the challenge of maintaining a consistent audio brand through changing management and brand strategies. “They might not even have been strategically sonic branding,” he notes. “It could have just been some brand music that they turned into a mnemonic or brand music they’ve just been using for years, and then a brand manager will come in and just throw out everything.” He points out McDonald’s as a prime example of an audio brand that’s only gotten stronger over the past twenty-five years, and how consistency has been its key to success. “It’s a really good case study for sonic branding agencies to look at,” he says, “how you can take a mnemonic [and] use it in, there’s videos on YouTube where it’s, like, using like thirty different contexts, and it’s just changed instrumentation slightly, changed the speed, [and] added swing .” (0:07:38) - Sonic Branding Evolution and Impact Dr. Dickson tells us about his worth with agencies that are increasingly turning to AI for solutions, especially when it comes to catching online plagiarism. “They are using AI to identify melodies that are shared and then taking them to court once the melody’s been used sufficiently,” he cautions. “Day one, a song comes out, they don’t take them to court. They wait till the song is a massive hit and it’s got enough revenue, and then they take them to court.” We discuss AI’s growing presence in everything from audio mastering and editing to generating new music, and he points out some of the roles he sees it filling over time. “I’m imagining in the future there will be the option to take a track,” he explains, “and then just [have AI] re-tailor it to that context and stretch it out so that, for the conference that goes for two hours, there’s appropriate backing music based on your sonic branding.” (0:16:24) - Future of...

“If you imagine a company has a ten million dollar marketing budget, right? And then you imagine they have a sonic logo on every single TikTok ad, Facebook ad, YouTube ad, all these new media where the majority of the traffic’s coming from now. If they can increase conversion rates marginally, they can have a huge difference to their bottom line. And it’s one of those things where, because sonic branding, once it’s done, once, and, well, yes, there might be a brand refresh where it’s changed in ten years, um, or it’s updated, or maybe it’s changed slightly to work with a different culture, right? There might be like a version which sounds slightly more Canadian, right? Or more Christmasy, or things like that. But the point being is this is an asset that they develop once, and then it can be used on these campaigns that can have huge advertising budgets, which makes it very cheap when you compare it to the actual campaign marketing spend.” – Dr. Thomas Dickson My guest on this episode is a musicologist who specializes in how we perceive sound and how it shapes brand communication. With a PhD in Music Psychology, he helps brands create emotionally resonant and research-backed sonic identities. His work reduces subjectivity, improves creative decisions, and even addresses legal risks like plagiarism in audio branding. His name is Dr. Thomas Dickson, and he’s advised national retailers, tech firms, and service brands throughout his career. And, as if the subject of musicology isn’t fascinating enough, we’ll also be discussing how businesses can make sure their sound stays original and protected. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - The Power of Sound in Advertising Our discussion begins with a look back at Dr. Dickson’s early memories of sound, and he came prepared with a more recent, but still memorable, experience that demonstrated the power of sound. “By the grand finale,” he recalls as he describes an outdoor concert featuring the Melbourne Symphonic Orchestra, “it’s a bucketing down, raining and everyone’s still there. So we’ve got this huge event, it’s bucketing down, raining, [and] no one’s leaving because they want to hear the finale.” He tells us more about musicology, what it means, and how it can help build a stronger brand. “Musicology is like the academic and rigorous study of music,” he explains. “It comes down to a broad range of different styles, so this could be like music history, it could be music psychology, which is what I looked at, the psychology of music or sound, [or] it could be ethnomusicology.” (0:09:05) - Musicology and Plagiarism in Sonic Branding Dr. Dickson tells us about the different dimensions of musicology and how sound influences us, such as musical expectancy and episodic memory, and how much our impression of sound comes from the media we consume. “We have cultural norms associated with electronic music,” he explains, “digital sounds, hard hitting bass, all that kind of stuff that we

“And they had people that had either the escalator going up on the right-hand side or you could take the stairs, and each stair played a different key on the piano. More people took the stairs than they did the escalators because it was more fun. So, they did something they hadn't done before that was better for them. So, it all wraps up beautifully, and was such a fun campaign. And again, it didn't have to cost a lot of money. They didn't do many of those piano stairs. And it's that old thing, or the new thing that we try and do now, [which] is ‘experienced by few, seen by many.’ And you see it all the time, you know, you do one small little activation that really doesn't have to cost a lot of money, but you film it beautifully, put a good track to it, you make sure it gets shared correctly. And all of a sudden, you've got a hit.” – Darren Borrino This episode is the second half of my conversation with executive creative director of Inkfish NYC Darren Borrino as we talk about building the foundation of an effective sonic brand, how digital tools and the internet age have redefined the strategies, development, and time frame of an ad campaign, and the growing value of authenticity in a world where AI content is becoming the norm. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Global Advertising Culture Differences and Campaigns The second half of our conversation begins as Darren and I talk about his work all around the world, from his home in South Africa to Prague, Australia, and eventually the U.S. “The biggest culture shock I got was actually coming to New York,” he says. “Although I'm South African, my parents are British, so I was brought up on British comedy like quite sarcastic, quite dry, quite undertone.” We discuss the one ad campaign he wishes he’d written, and an inventively musical approach Denmark took to encouraging drivers to slow down: a melody based on the driver’s speed. “If you went too fast, it became annoying,” he explains. “We've all had kids in the car before. Everybody wants to slow down and just enjoy it, and there's no reason to race. So you may as well just enjoy the track. (0:05:20) - Innovative Sound Marketing Campaigns We talk about what’s changed in the advertising world in recent years, and how even a seemingly successful marketing strategy can have unintended consequences for a brand. “That's going to reposition the brand in the market,” he tells us. “But if you don't have a full perspective of where everything is, you could accidentally position that brand right next to a competitor that will easily outspend them.” Darren talks about the impact of such AI tools as Midjourney in his agency, its uses and limitations, and the unlikely sounds of inspiration all around us “I can guarantee you nine times out of ten,” he says, “it's when you're cycling home, or when you're washing your dog at home, or you're out with a friend having coffee. You'll see something happen, you'll go, ‘wait a minute....

“If you're going to be doing a commercial, for example, for BMW, where people are spending a lot of money on a Seven Series and it's a luxury car, but then you hear the TV ad or the radio ad or wherever you're listening, and that sound isn't recorded at the highest quality. Like, your logical mind might not pick it up, but if it sounds a little tinny or it's too much of an echo, you pick that up, and that really does build into the overall feeling of the brand in terms of quality. There was an interesting example with Nissan. They launched one of the first electric vehicles a long time ago, and when they put it out into the market, they found that people felt that maybe it was a little flimsy, it didn't feel quite right, like, well made. So obviously they went in to fix their upholstery, and they started making things a little more high quality, and consumers are still saying, ‘I don't know what it is, there's something about this, it just doesn't feel like a quality vehicle.’ And what they did was they changed the audio. Through the speakers in the car, when you start it up, it will make a fake sound of the car starting up. And, all of a sudden, people are like, ‘ah, now it feels like a car.’” – Darren Borrino This week’s guest is an art director at heart and an ECD-level creative with over twenty years experience, working all across the globe. He’s led teams at some of the world’s top agencies, such as TBWA, DDB, and Saatchi & Saatchi, and has won multiple awards for his work. He launched Inkfish, a boutique agency in New York that helps smaller challenger brands take on the big guys with sharper strategy, more disruptive creative, and budgets that go into the work, not overheads. He’s endlessly curious about what persuades the human mind, loves ideas that actually land, and believes that the best work comes from collaboration and clarity, as well as a healthy sense of humor. His name is Darren Borrino, and in this episode, we’ll be discussing how companies can shake things up using sound, the difference between clever and persuasive, and how to stay relevant in a changing ad world – especially in the age of AI. Stay tuned for a Masterclass in being different! As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - The Power of Sound in Advertising We start off our discussion with Darren’s childhood impressions of sound, which include the Universal audio logo when he and his dad used to watch movies. “You'd made it home, you'd finished everything you wanted to do,” he says, “and you could sort of relax with a little bit of popcorn and maybe watch a movie and just take it easy. So that was probably the first time.” Our discussion turns to audio branding in the age of social media, and just how quickly things move today – especially audience attention. “People switch off very quickly,” Darren explains. “So you need to make sure you have a brand that has the right qualities, and then you match that with the right voice to bring that to...

“The brief was ‘we want to sell some more train tickets to Germany, where you can go to Berlin for a techno party, you can go to Hamburg for the opera, have a famous opera in Hamburg, or you can go to Munich for the beer festival.’ And we made this audio journey with sound, and you definitely can hear, ah, now we’re in Berlin, it’s the opera, and now we go to Munich. So yeah, we can play with that. And the client just also loved the idea. It takes two to tango, as you say, the client also needs to value and understand if you want the effect of this. You need to work with this in an ambitious and professional way.” – Karsten Kjems This episode is the second half of my conversation with audio branding specialist and founder and CEO of Sonic Minds Karsten Kjems, as we talk about the surprising value of silence in sound design, why familiarity doesn’t always breed contempt when it comes to sonic logos, and what it means to be a musician in a world where both instruments and vocals can come from a laptop. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - The Power of Sound Design As the second half of our conversation starts, Karsten points out how effective sound design isn’t always intuitive, and that less is sometimes more. “I’ve played some gigs, sometimes for a reception,” he says, “and people were just talking and talking, and they didn’t listen to the music at all. But then suddenly if we start to play really soft, then people go, ‘oh, I think the band is playing.’” He adds that sonic interfaces today are, in some ways, reminiscent of the early days of web design. “In the old days, they had flashes and everything moving,” he recalls. “You know, now we just go back to ‘give me a simple burger menu,’ ‘click contact,’ or whatever. User usability is also very important.” (0:06:41) - The Evolution of Sound Design Our discussion turns to audio marketing, and Karsten points out how much of effective sonic branding depends on the demographics. “There has actually been a study for that, that shows that we create our musical preference, I think, when it’s between we are 17 and 21,” he says. “We’re about to get the first boyfriend or girlfriend, moving away from home, these really high peak moments in our lives.” We talk about AI in sound, and the direction he sees it taking in the industry. “It’s just like when the sampler came out,” he recalls. “’What should drummers do?’ And now the drummer plays on top of samplers, so every drummer has a sampler or a drum machine next to him, so he uses it as a tool.” (0:20:22) - Quality Sound Design As our conversation comes to a close, we talk more about the role of shifting demographics in sound design and how they impact not just relatability but the user’s experience. “If you’re having hearing loss or having, you know, difficult hearing,” Karsten notes, “then you don’t want products that really annoy you. You want to be able to understand them.” He shares some of his...

“If you can see that your product is selling better with better sounds, and it gets better reviews Actually, I saw a car review that scored the car better just because the sounds were better. He didn’t talk about how fast it could go, how fast it could brake or how many airbags, he talked about the user experience. A car today is a driving iPad on wheels. So, all these sounds here, I got so stressed from these beeps and boops, suddenly it was too close to the edge, or too close to that... sometimes there wasn’t even a thing, and it just starts to, what was that? Was a fly running through the camera? What was it? So, I think it’s so important that we also choose brands and products with our ears as well with our eyes, and also with our wallets.” – Karsten Kjems This episode’s guest was raised in a musical home with a studio in the basement. He began drumming professionally at 23, and his passion for sound design and early use of digital audio tools like ProTracker on the Amiga shaped his approach to music and technology. While working at a branding agency, he noticed companies struggling to define their sonic identity, leading him to launch one of the first strategic audio branding agencies, Sonic Minds, in 2004. Today, he’s a recognized expert in the field, frequently speaking and teaching about sound design. His name is Karsten Kjems, and you’ll want to hear more about his perspective on brand sounds, why he believes audio branding to be so important, and what sets good and bad sound apart. If you’re still on the fence about audio branding for your own company, or if you’re struggling to explain why it’s important to your clients, you should definitely check out this conversation. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - The Power of Sound in Branding As we start things off, Karsten shares his early memories of sound, and how growing up with ADHD in a musical family shaped his formative years. “I was brought up in a family where my father was a drummer,” Karsten recalls, “so I’ve always been around musicians and music and the first time I really discovered that I had this almost perfect pitch was when I went to music school.” He explains how a surprising discovery at a concert led to his career in marketing and audio branding, and the seismic shift that the streaming era – and particularly the rise of YouTube – represented for the industry. “Suddenly brands and companies need to communicate in these spheres,” he tells us. “How did they do that? How did they choose music? How should they buy music? So it’s a whole new game, from only being on TV and radio to being on all the time, to keep… producing content all the time.” (0:12:18) - Designing Meaningful Audio Branding Experiences Our conversation turns to UX and branding through sound design, and Karsten points out how ubiquitous sound interfaces have become these days. “A headset, a modern headset, for whatever company, it can have up to around 15 different sounds,” he...

“If it’s stock music, unless you’re paying, like, some libraries have exclusivity, but most of them don’t. So that’s what I always say to clients, like stock music. You might hear that Joe’s ice cream shop also has the same music that you have. And you’re Chrysler – I keep saying Chrysler, but whatever, a big brand. A good example of an audio branding that we did was the Rogers. That was huge, and when we first did that, it was for a very close friend of mine, Philippe Garneau, and Mark’s brother, the astronaut, and he came to me, and he had the Rogers account. He said, ‘We want a mnemonic on the end of the spot, but we’re only going to use it for three commercials.’ And so they lost the business, and Rogers loved that mnemonic.” – Ted “Theo” Rosnick This episode is the second half of my conversation with music and audio director/producer Ted Rosnick, as we discuss the use of AI, especially digital voice clones, in advertising, the impact of the SAG-AFTRA strike, and the unwritten rule voice artists follow when it comes to branding. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Evolution of Music Production and AI The second half of our conversation starts with Ted’s perspective on advertising in the 21st century, and one early trend that marked a turning point. “One of the main things I remember changing a lot was when Napster came along,” he recalls. “People could download a hundred songs in an hour, and I noticed it was, all of a sudden, we were expected to do seven or eight demos, because that’s what they were used to, like, pulling music down all night long and hearing their stuff.” We talk about digital studios and sound design, and how AI voice cloning has transformed the industry, including a recent commercial campaign that featured a synthetic likeness of a human actor. “We asked his permission,” Ted tells us, “and so we AI’d his voice, and it worked out really well. Nobody would know. I know the difference because I just know, but you wouldn’t know the difference.” (0:10:42) - The Impact of AI on Creativity Ted tells us about his experience with AI-assisted brainstorming and its limitations as a content writer. “I’ve written them and then thrown them into ChatGTP,” he explains, “and then said, ‘Can you just make it a little warmer?’ But the truth of the matter is that I’ve always gone back to my own, because I don’t think it’s as warm as or as good as what’s in here, you know.” We discuss what sets human and AI creativity apart, and how what makes a work human often comes down to the very things AI would try to fix. “A lot of it is that human subtleties are mistakes,” he tells us. “When you start tearing it down for the mix, you hear all sorts of mistakes. They’re not glaring mistakes that are going to ruin it, but they’re not perfect, and that’s what makes it human. And that’s what makes it great.” (0:23:10) - The World of Audio Branding Our conversation closes with some of Ted’s most...

“We did one for Mercedes, which again was very unique and very simple. It was about this guy Raymond who had never tried ice cream before. And it was a great commercial, and it talked about Raymond never having ice cream, and he waited, and he would watch other people have ice cream, and then one day Raymond decided to have ice cream. And then all of a sudden it cuts to a Mercedes logo. And then the last ten seconds, it was for Mercedes, but it was so well done and so unique, and the score was very, very, very unique.” – Ted “Theo” Rosnick This episode’s guest returned to Toronto from Boston in 1974 after attending Berklee College of Music. He soon began working as a studio drummer, but his passion for audio production quickly led him to start his own jingle production company, Rosnick Productions, in 1975. Through hard work and dedication, he quickly established himself as Canada’s top audio producer and audio director for commercials. He went on to partner with Steve McKinnon in 1990, forming RMW Music, and the company remained the top music production company in Canada for decades before being sold to Vapor Music in 2016. Since that sale, he’s remained with Vapor as a Creative Director, continuing to bring his expertise and passion to many projects and to the industry. His work is recognized not just in Canada but globally, having shaped the sound of major brands like IKEA, Molson, Subaru, Mercedes, Peroni, and Heinz, among many others. Over his five-decade career, he’s earned hundreds of advertising awards for his music and sound design, always pushing creative boundaries with fresh ideas and meticulous attention to detail – all of which are things we definitely appreciate here. Beyond advertising, he’s made his mark in sound design and music for feature films and documentaries, and he’s the executive producer and audio director of the well-known advertising podcast IOFA with Aaron Starkman. He’s also mentored countless emerging talents over the years, a role that he takes great pride in. Just this past February, he decided to retire from the advertising industry after an illustrious fifty-year career, and he now enjoys spending time at his cottage in northern Ontario with family and friends, playing the drums, and catching Raptors games. His name is Ted, or “Theo,” Rosnick, and getting the opportunity to speak with someone who has such a rich knowledge of the advertising industry and how it’s evolved over the years – not to mention how much sound has played a part in that – is a real treat. If you want to know where advertising’s been, where it is now, and where it might be heading, this is a discussion you won’t want to miss. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Legendary Marketing and Music Memories Our conversation starts off with Ted’s early memories of sound, and it’s one a few guests have shared: The Beatles’ unforgettable performance on The Ed Sullivan Show. “I had never heard that kind of music before,” Ted tells us....

“There’s a quote from a famously terrible person, Thomas Jefferson, who said – I don’t particularly like him or a lot of the things he did, but I do agree with this, I do agree with this specific quote. ‘I will study war and strategy so that my children may study science and maths, so that their children may study art and poetry.’ I’m sure I’m butchering the exact quote, but the sentiment is there. Why are we creating robots to do art for us? Why do we not yet have something that can fold my laundry? Wouldn’t that be useful? That’s what I want. And at the end of the day, if I had to pick either having a robot to do my art for me so that I have time to fold my laundry, or having to do both, I’d rather do both. I’m fine living. I enjoy being alive and being a human. I don’t need a robot to take away what, to me, is the most human thing about us, which is that we can create.” – Benjamin Kapit This episode is the second half of my conversation with Benjamin Kapit of Second World Entertainment as he shares some of the more obscure sounds that he’s turned into cinematic effects, discusses the ethics of AI training and what it gets right and wrong about human creativity, and the message he’d most like to share with future generations about the power of sound. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Exploring Sound in Film Production As our discussion begins, Benjamin shares more of his hands-on experience with audio production, from the studio apps and audio plugins he prefers to the challenge of bringing it all together in the film’s final cut. “You have to record sound and work with the sound props make,” he says, “the way that people talk, or rather who’s mic’d up in certain shots. You have to work with the edit. You have to have that somehow in your mind because you, the director, are the only one who really knows what it’s going to look like when it’s done.” He tells us about some of his more inventive sound sources, such as a microphone specifically tuned to record static. “When it comes to post-production,” Benjamin says, “especially sound,” I hate rules. I don’t want to do things the way that everyone else does. I don’t want to sit down and say, okay, well, this sound sounds like this, so it has to be this thing.” (0:11:06) - Exploring AI in the Sound Industry Benjamin and I talk about the groundbreaking audio work in sci-fi movies like Dune and Interstellar, and how they’ve inspired his approach to sound design. “It never really occurred to me that, like, oh, you can just mess with a synth or with a sound so much that it becomes something else,” he says about Interstellar’s distinctive soundscape. “You can completely shift the tone and the meaning behind audio and make it yours and make people think, yeah, this is this other thing and it’s not.” Our conversation turns to AI’s transformative role in the industry, and his concern that the distinction between different forms of AI, and the question of

“If you have a screen that goes very bright white or if you have a screen that goes very dark, people can deal. Their eyes will adjust, or they’ll just accept that. But if you have bad sound, people will leave. They’ll turn off the movie. If they have to be adjusting the volume, if they have to adjust the volume of a video more than like two times, they’re very likely to leave. If the sound is just, like, bad audio and they can’t understand it, they won’t follow what’s going on. They’ll leave. So even from that most basic perspective, just passable good audio is more important than passable good visuals, because people can forgive bad visuals. But they cannot and will not forgive bad sound, because bad sound hurts.” – Benjamin Kapit This episode’s guest is a filmmaker, composer, and sound designer who started his production company at the age of fifteen. He’s currently in post-production for multiple short films and web shows, and he’s working on his fifth vocal album. His name is Benjamin Kapit, and our two-part conversation covers a wide range of sound-related issues when it comes to creativity. Stay tuned for more insights into, among other things, what it was like starting his sound career at such a young age, the balancing act of creating sound-based art and film in the age of AI, and his approach to movie soundtracks. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Exploring Sound, Film & Autism As our discussion begins, Benjamin shares his early memories of sounds and how his older brother’s musical talent inspired his own career path. “We had an upright piano,” he recalls, “and eventually got a baby grand, and my house growing up was constantly filled with music, and I look up to my brother so much because he’s the one that got me into piano.” He talks about his autism diagnosis and how being on the spectrum can be a double-edged sword when it comes to filmmaking. “I see a lot of the work that I do as a puzzle,” he explains, “and so, you know, despite the shortcomings of it, I’m able to utilize whatever’s going on in my brain to actually end up helping the work that I do.” (0:11:30) - Creativity in Sound Design and Film The topic turns to cinematic audio and the challenge of inventing whole new sounds that have no counterpart in the real world. “How do you approach making a sound for, you know, shooting magic out of their wand,” he says, “because that’s not a real thing. So what do you do for it? Do you go for the more realistic element, or do you head towards, like, complete synthesis?” We discuss film scores and their role in shaping not only the narrative but also the performances. “One of my shortcomings is communication,” Benjamin tells us, “and if I can’t get an idea or the feeling of a scene out verbally to an actor, I bet I can do it with music. So I’ll write pieces before I even get on set that I can hand to the actor and say, ‘This is how this scene should feel.’ Then we’ll be able to discuss it...

“And then his youngest daughter, who’s six years old, comes up, and she’s into gymnastics and she’s kind of cartwheeling around the room while everyone else is playing. And then, ‘All right, she’s going to play you a song.’ And she comes up, and she’s all full of beans, and then she sits down and she plays the most somber Debussy song. And it was, like, there was so much soul in what she played for a six-year-old. I’m like, ‘whoa!’ Like, the amount of depth in what she did was, like, whoa! ‘You are, like, a wise young girl.’ That’s an old soul. And I looked at him, and he’s crying. And then at the end of this evening, we again get to talking about AI, and he was asking, this comes full circle, this is the reason I bring this story up, is he’s invested heavily in various different AI projects. And one of them is this company that’s gonna be, like, a prompt and then it makes music. And he said, ‘Well, you know it’s cool, but are you not worried about AI, like, taking you out?’ And I was like, ‘Well, do you think I should be? You probably know better than me.’ And he said, ‘Well, you know, AI can do exactly what she just did, just so you know, like right now, I could get AI to play that song and it can play it perfectly.’ I was like, ‘Yeah, but would it make you cry?’" – Stephen Ridley This is the 300th episode of Audio Branding: The Hidden Gem of Marketing, and my conversation with international pianist and founder of the Ridley Academy, Stephen Ridley, continues as we discuss why Stephen prefers live performances to studio recordings, the school he’s now running to help others find their own passion for music, and the one song he’s vowed to never play on the piano. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:01) - The Future of Creativity and AI The second half of our conversation picks up with Stephen’s illuminating discussion of AI with a billionaire tech investor, and where he sees AI leading us in the future. “There are a lot of things in life where we don’t necessarily need to put ourselves into it,” he explains. “They don’t require our imagination, creativity, any spiritual anything. Those things probably can be replaced by AI.” We discuss AI’s limitations as a way of conveying emotion, and where the new economy might lead us once machines are handling the busy work. “I actually think the future economy will be heavily into creativity, and into art,” Stephen adds, “since I think that’s exactly where culture will go.” (0:07:16) – The Unique Power of Live Entertainment Stephen recalls his brief and unexpected foray into iTunes after discovering that a record label had uploaded his music without permission. “They’re like, ‘Okay, if you don’t like it, sue us.’ And obviously I wasn’t in a position to do that, and they have all the money in the world,” he explains. “So I was like, ‘Okay, well, I can’t do that, but what I can do is remove it. So I just removed it.” He talks about why, even though he’s starting to return to social

“Chick invited me to go to this jazz club in Soho called Ronnie Scott’s in London. And it was, like, two o’clock in the morning – I was like, ‘I don’t think it’s gonna be open.’ I did not know who I was dealing with. It’s Chick Corea. He just makes a call, it’s open, and they’d set out three pianos in a room facing each other. And we walked in this room, we sat down, and Chick could play a few notes. Herbie had joined in, I’d joined in, and we kind of each took it at turns in leading the thing. This song went on for hours. It changed, it evolved, it moved. It was the most amazing thing. And Herbie said something really, really amazing. He was like, because even though we didn’t say anything to each other, I like, know these people in this moment. I know, I feel them, like there’s something happening, and so here’s the super geek moment. He said something in it, and it really resonates with me: he’s like, ‘You know, music’s not about the sound, right? The sound is carrying an intention.’" – Stephen Ridley This week’s guest is a world-renowned British pianist, composer, and visionary in modern piano education. His journey from high-flying investment banker to global musical sensation is as remarkable as his performances. He discovered his passion for the piano at age two and received formal training when he was eleven, but it wasn’t until he left the corporate world that his true artistry flourished. Starting as a London street performer, his raw talent and electrifying performances quickly garnered international attention and propelled him onto some of the world’s most prestigious stages. His name is Stephen Ridley, and our conversation ranges from how music connects us and transcends language to how it prolongs our lives. Keep listening to learn more about the power of sound! As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) – The Power of Sound As our discussion begins, Stephen shares his memories of a turbulent childhood in northern England, and what he discovered about the power of sound when he found a case full of his dad’s old cassettes. “The most amazing thing of this,” he tells us, “was I saw it change my dad, and he went into this other person, a much more beautiful, calm, serene sort of English version of Elvis. He sort of became a bit Elvis and he was singing to my mom and they were sweet and romantic together and I was like, ‘What is this superpower?” He remembers how that moment, and a neighbor’s gift of a simple toy piano, sparked his love of music, and his ongoing fascination with its impact on listeners. “It’s a magic which I’ve now come to know intimately,” he explains, “and I get to go around the world and share that magic with people and I’ve seen it now just millions of times. It’s so amazing to me.” (0:07:00) - Inspirational Journey of Music and Passion Stephen shares more of his early memories of sound, and how growing up in a secluded village with nothing to do proved to be a blessing in disguise for learning...

“I have a regular chat with a friend of mine in New Zealand. He’s a tetraplegic and a musician, so he invents his own music instruments that he can play with his limited motion, and he can send me his instrument over MIDI to where I am across the ocean and we can play together and we can have an engagement. It’s not possible for him to come to see me in Europe. It would be so expensive, and a lot of work. So, you know, thank God there’s the internet for him, you know. He gets to participate, he has remote concerts, he still plays with his friends. It’s really special.” – Rebekah Wilson This episode is the second half of my conversation with Source Elements CEO and remote collaboration specialist Rebekah Wilson as we discuss how physics and neurology collide when it comes to reducing latency, how the pandemic transformed online music collaboration and gave rise to today’s generation of at-home musicians, and where Rebekah sees sound, technology, and music itself heading in the future, over both the coming decades and even generations from now. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:01) - Impact of Latency on Music Collaboration We continue our talk about the science of latency, and Rebekah explains how it impacts music in ways that our brains only dimly perceive. “If you add a little bit of latency onto that,” she says, “music’s like, one, two... three… music’s not very friendly to that [sort of] latency.” She tells us more about how our brains unconsciously adapt to latency, and how technology relies both on improving speed and taking advantage of our ability to filter out information gaps. “What’s happening is that you’re anticipating it based on this model that’s in your brain,” Rebekah explains. “For example, every time you look at a wall or your surroundings, if it’s not moving, your brain’s not processing it.” (0:06:02) - Advancements in Remote Music Collaboration She talks about how the COVID-19 pandemic’s lockdown phase led to a boom in online collaboration, some of which continues to thrive today. “There remained a group of people,” she says, “a small group of people, you know, scattered around the world… who were like, ‘You know what? Some interesting things came out of this. Some interesting artistic development is possible here and it’s worth pursuing.” We discuss the technical and creative innovations that emerged from that period, and where they might lead in the years to come as we continue to innovate. “What we love as humans,” Rebekah says, “is to seek new forms of expression. This is what we do, we’re adventurers. So we go out, we go into the desert, we go out into the oceans, and we look for where something new is. And you know, music and performance and being together on the internet is still very new for us as humans.” (0:12:42) - Expanding Music Collaboration With Technology Our conversation wraps up as we continue to talk about online collaboration and creative efforts that can now

“So I’m in Chicago, I’ve quit my job, I’ve almost run out of money. You know, you’re young, you don’t care. And I met Robert, who’s now my co-founder. He had mixed a CD of mine a couple of years before through friends of friends. So we meet up, have a beer, and then he’s like, ‘Oh, you know, I’m spending all this money on IT every month,’ because he was a sound engineer. And he’s like, ‘But we’ve got this thing called the internet, right? I thought, ‘I’ve got 1 MB internet in my studio, why can’t I use that? It’s free.’ And I was like, ‘Yeah, let’s do it.’ And because I, you know, had been doing software development and the internet, it just made sense. The two of us really bonded, and I went home to New Zealand and he stayed in Chicago, and we built Source-Connect.” – Rebekah Wilson This episode’s guest is the co-founder, technical director, and CEO of Source Elements, and has worked for over twenty years with customers and industry partners like Avid and Dolby. Since the release of their pioneering remote audio app Source-Connect in 2005, she’s advocated for the benefits of remote collaboration in all sorts of areas, including sound engineering, voice acting, music performance and production, film and cinema production, and education. Originally trained as a composer, she’s now a software developer and expert in the fields of music technology and networking, and, as a New Zealand native, she understands very well how important it is to stay connected no matter where we are. Her name is Rebekah Wilson, and you’ll want to hear what she has to say about how Source Connect is making our creative lives easier, what it’s like being a woman in a male-dominated field, and where she sees this technology going in the future. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:01) - Musical Journey to Tech Innovation We start off with Rebekah’s early memories of her father playing the guitar, and how it helped spark her love of music. “I must have been four or five,” she tells us, “and I can see the house that we were living in at the time. So, yeah, around their age and um, just those lovely, warm feelings.” She shares her experience growing up in New Zealand and how quickly things changed as the internet began to connect the world. “I went out and told everybody,” she explains, recalling the day she learned about Princess Diana’s passing on a web forum. “I was like, ‘Oh my God, oh my God.’ And they’re like, ‘How do you know? The internet? What, that’s crazy!’ And so it was like one of those first moments of finding out that you can connect to the rest of the world with this medium.” (0:11:06) - Navigating Gender Dynamics in Tech Rebekah shares her journey from orchestral composer to tech entrepreneur in the ‘90s, and just how much things have changed for women since those early days. “I went in for the job interview and, uh, they, they show me where the programmers work,” she explains. “It’s a dark room in the middle of the building with no...

“Listen, I got unbelievably lucky with YouTube, and I don’t know why. I still really, I mean, I know why in theory, like, people have been like, well, ‘You provide XYZ,’ but I don’t know why I get to do this. Like, I know that I have certain qualities that lend themselves to my strengths, that lend themselves to this medium, but it’s completely and utterly luck. Putting out good videos, having a high-quality camera, a high-quality microphone, having a, you know, finding out what your skill set is that you can use. So, the thing is, I remember five years ago when I wasn’t even, or well, let’s say six years ago, I’d be like, they would be talking about a streamer that had a shtick. And I guess I accidentally fell back into my shtick, which was the opera singer, right?” – Marco Cammarota This episode is the second half of my conversation with voice actor and YouTube sensation Marco Cammarota as we discuss how the YouTube and Twitch algorithms can make or break a channel’s audience size, Marco’s voiceover work in such games as Metal Slug and Genshin Impact, and how a creative approach to sound, including silence, can have a dramatic impact on listeners. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Navigating a Career in Content Creation My conversation with Marco picks up with his frank advice to people looking to follow his winding career path. “I remember when people would be like, how do you get into voiceover? And I’d always be like ‘Don’t, don’t!’ How do you get into opera? ‘Don’t!’” We discuss how much of a role luck and the YouTube algorithm played in his success, and he does offer some tips to anyone looking to start their own channel. The topic turns to AI in sound, its growing prevalence in social media, and whether it can replace human video game compositions. “There was an instance where I was listening to some YouTube music on a playlist,” he recalls. “And I was like man, this, like this guy goes off. And then I looked, and it was actually AI, and I was like, oh. And so then the question became do I still listen to this or do I not care, or do I, like, turn it off? And I eventually decided to turn it off.” (0:15:25) - Exploring Video Game Music Community Marco tells us more about the community he’s built online with MarcoMeatball and his hopes for his fellow gamers and listeners. “The goal is to have it be a hub of video game music where,” he says, “if someone maybe doesn’t know something or likes something or doesn’t like something, they can come and hear a person who is just like them with a little bit of extra experience, or equal experience, or the person could actually have more experience than me and also offer their insight.” We also discuss how the channel led to a newfound appreciation for video game soundtracks as art, even compared to his childhood love of games. “I’ve learned about so many more pieces of music,” he adds, “like I had a deep, fundamental love for music and games, but I didn’t...

“In February of ’21 I just randomly started. I just filmed a video, and I was like, ‘Okay, whatever.’ Well, it was February 11th, and then February 15th we were on our way to pick up my dog, my puppy at the time – she was you know, nine weeks old – and I started getting notifications on my phone and I was like, ‘Oh, weird, I must have left some somebody, like, a comment on YouTube or something.’ And all of a sudden, I look and I’m like, ‘Whoa, my video is popping off.’ I was like, ‘What do I do with this?’ And so I just, like, doubled down.” – Marco Cammarota This week’s guest is a professional opera singer turned voice actor turned YouTuber. He grew up loving video games and video-game music after first discovering them when he was seven years old, and since then he’s lived and breathed all things video games. He has a YouTube channel all about video game music – the beauty of modern composition, how it allows us to connect deeper to the games we love, and how we can better learn to understand ourselves through it and the experiences it provides. His name is Marco Cammarota – sometimes known as “Marco Meatball” – and I’ve been looking forward to hearing about his musical influences and his love of sound, particularly when it comes to video games, for a while now. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did! As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - From Opera to YouTube We start things off with Marco’s early memories of sound, particularly the songs his Italian grandmother used to play when he was a child. “Even the sound of the accordion triggers like a deep sense of nostalgia for me,” he recalls. “When it comes to music like that, that soundscape is really, really poignant to me.” He tells us more about how his childhood led him to opera, voice work, and even YouTube. “The desire to communicate and express,” Marco explains, “was the thing that awakened through this, like summer camp, and then I think that that’s what led me down the path of musical theater and eventually opera, and, then voiceover and now this current career.” (0:16:30) - Video Game Music’s Healing Power Marco discusses the impact of his father’s passing and the solace he found both in grief counseling and through video game music. “Grief counseling is something everyone should do if possible,” he shares, “just because grief is such a powerful and painful feeling. There are really no words to describe how bad it feels.” He talks about some of the game soundtracks that helped him process those emotions, from Outer Wilds to Disco Elysium, and one particularly timeless classic. “Final Fantasy is really based around classical and prog rock,” he explains, “and sometimes integrating the two in one setting. It’s an incredible thing that most of my childhood was based around Final Fantasy’s sound, and I think, like, largely that’s why I also gravitated towards being sensitive to sound and music.” (0:24:21) - The...

“I think people forget that. I think they forget that there’s a person behind the music and that they need to share that with their audience now more than ever, because if people hear your song and they like your song, they’re gonna go down a rabbit hole. And if they can go down that hole and come across you being genuine, being authentic, actually showing vulnerability, they’re gonna fall in love with you. They like the music, and they like you. That is the definition of a superfan.” – Andy Gesner This is the second half of my interview with owner and president of HIP Video Promo, Andy Gesner, as we talk about balancing AI content with human connection, his advice on setting yourself apart when it comes to social media, and the critical role that superfans play in building an audience. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:01) - Creating Visual Content for Music Promotion “For the first four or five years, music videos really were reserved for those who were either well-moneyed or had backing,” Andy says as we start the second half of our conversation. “All of a sudden, there was this platform called YouTube, and of course, we jumped right on it.” He tells us more about that transition between the MTV era and today’s streaming content, and his advice to clients about the limits of AI content creation. “I have always told clients, ‘Yes, no issues with an AI video, but sport, don’t follow up your AI video with another AI video,’” he explains. “The best way to get to the next level and get to those thousand superfans… You have to make a human connection.” (0:10:46) - Music Promotion Strategies and Philosophy He tells us about his work helping musicians cross the bridge to social media promotion and engaging with their fans, and how much work it can be for creatives who aren’t naturally outgoing. “They don’t appreciate sometimes that they are public figures,” he tells us, “and that they need to be doing the things their less talented, much more lazy competition are not going to do.” Andy warns us, however, against losing sight of what’s important in the rush for more engagement. “Everybody’s concerned about the follower count,” he says. “And they’re upset that the YouTube view count is low and they want to know how to get the streams up, and they’re concerned about how many subscribers they have... I’m finding they are forgetting about the song. You’ve got to be focused on your song.” (0:26:37) - Promoting Artistic Encouragement and Support As our conversation comes to a close, Andy tells us about some of his latest projects, including one particularly unlikely new pop star. “We’re working on an unusual project,” he explains. “Her name is Gwen, and she’s dead. In fact, Gwen isn’t even real. She is the star of a new streaming television program.” He tells us how listeners can get in touch, whether it’s Instagram, YouTube, or even a plain old phone call. “If you love your job,” Andy says, “you never work a day in your...

“I said, ‘Well, uh, my team and I would love to see the video,’ and the woman at Lost Highway said, ‘All right, let me pop a VHS in FedEx, it’ll be there tomorrow morning.’ So, we watched the Johnny Cash Hurt music video and once we’d wiped a tear out of our eyes, I got on the phone. I said, ‘Retta, put us in, coach. We want to play.’ And the rest is history. It was and remains still the most iconic music video of an artist doing a cover to date.” – Andy Gesner This episode’s guest is the owner and president of HIP, one of the most trusted names in music marketing. He’s been releasing records since 1979, giving him firsthand insight into the complexities of the music industry, and he’s channeled his expertise and passion for music into uplifting fellow artists over the past twenty-four years. He and his team have promoted over 4,800 music videos, championing some of the most renowned artists and best indie talent from all corners of the globe. His name is Andy Gesner, and if you’re a musician, this is a conversation you don’t want to miss. I know how hard it can be these days to make a living from your art, and it can be even harder if you don’t pay attention to marketing. If you’re creative, you have to wear a lot of hats, and if you’re looking for tips, Andy has some great ones to share in this two-part discussion. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - From Sound to Promotion Our conversation starts off with Andy’s very first memory of sound, which just happens to be the Beatles’ historic performance on The Ed Sullivan Show. “Well, my sister starts screaming like a banshee and she starts twirling around like a whirling dervish,” he recalls. “And I look over at my brother, and his jaw hits the floor. And I look at this little black and white TV and there are these four guys with what at the time was considerably long hair.” He tells us about how his career shifted from performance to promotion, and what his work on Johnny Cash’s classic “Hurt” video taught him about taking creative risks. “It was like, ‘We can’t play a Johnny Cash video on MTV, no way,’" he remembers producers saying at the time. “People thought Johnny’s version of Hurt was a bit too out there. But you and I both know, as a marketing person, you present, and the public decides.” (0:19:46) - The Importance of Music Videos Our discussion turns to how the digital era has reshaped music promotion and how the music videos of the ‘80s paved the way for today’s influencer culture. “Now more than ever,” he explains, “artists, independent creatives, are public figures, and you can’t just sit on the couch and say, ‘Hey, I’m not going to do any of that public figure stuff, I just want the world to love me for my music.’ Those days are over.” We talk about the bands that, starting around the turn of the 21st century, have had to rely on video and online marketing instead of radio airplay, and he shares a memorable example. “I remember in 2007,” Andy says, “sending...

“But if you think about it, like if all 360,000 of these, like, law firms, not lawyers, law firms had their own brand out there, who’s gonna rise to the top? The ones who are producing content that provides value, and then the ones who are producing content that has some good production value, and are the ones who are producing content that has some good entertainment value. ‘Cause I think that’s the third leg. Because right now, just producing content is enough, but there’s going to come a point where people have to be entertaining as well, where it’s not going to be consumed.” – Dennis Meador This episode is the second half of my conversation with founder and CEO of The Legal Podcasting Network Dennis Meador, as we discuss Dennis’s start in podcasting, his tips for putting together a helpful and accessible video for clients, and how AI is blurring the video/audio divide. As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that. (0:00:00) - Podcast Marketing and Communication Strategy The second half of our conversation starts as Dennis shares his approach to winning older clients over to social-media marketing, and the challenge our online-first world can pose. “They’ll say, ‘Yeah, if I can get them in front of me, I’ll convert them 80% of the time,’" he recounts. “The problem is that 80% of the time, they check out your website and never do anything further.” He talks about short-form content and informational videos, and how they can help brands get a foot in the door when it comes to making an impression on clients. “When people search these very specific questions, now,” he explains, “all of a sudden, this attorney, especially with video and YouTube being owned by Google, their videos start to pop up, their podcast starts to pop up, their FAQ page starts to pop up.” (0:14:19) - Future of Podcasting and Branding Dennis and I talk about how remote networking and online spaces have changed the way we make a first impression, and his approach to keeping brands engaged with their clients. “We send a lot of videos in my company,” he explains, “I’ll have somebody say to me, like, ‘Oh, this client’s ghosted us, blah, blah, blah, blah. They’re not returning calls.’ I’m like, did you send [a video]? They probably forgot you’re a real person.” He shares his thoughts about Gen Z, and now Gen Alpha, and how their lifelong experience with social media will impact the future of branding. “Fifteen years ago or ten years ago,” he recalls, “the number one thing kids wanted to be when they grew up was doctors and lawyers. Do you know what the number one thing is now for kids junior-high and below? Influencers.” (0:17:34) - AI and Creativity in Marketing Our conversation concludes with a firsthand account of how AI is helping Dennis reinvent and expand his approach to podcast development. “I’m hoping that when we produce this [next] podcast,” he says, “we actually produce it as a cartoon, that when we produce this podcast, we actually produce it as a cartoon, and...