Animal Behavior Conversations: The Podcast of The ABMA

This episode Justin Garner, Busch Gardens Tampa Bay, provides some great learning on behavior chains and the process of chaining. Justin starts by breaking down the process of chaining while giving practical application examples. The discussion then dives into how a behavior chain works and dissects what it means for each behavior in the chain to serve as both a discriminative stimulus and a conditioned reinforcer. Justin then explains the difference between backward and forward chaining and why it is recommended to utilize backward chaining. The discussion ends with advice on preventing behavior chain breakdown and an explanation on the difference between shaping and chaining. Stay tuned in for Justin’s "Training Tale" about a team and a mob of macropods reaching new heights in training. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ For more information on the ABMA’s virtual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/virtual-conference To submit an abstract for the ABMA 2026 annual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/abma-annual-conference To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠ 1:30 Upcoming ABMA offerings 5:35 Definition and practical application of chaining and behavior chains 15:30 Backward chaining 22:35 Forward chaining 26:15 Recommendation to utilize backward chaining 31:15 Advice on preventing behavior chain breakdowns 33:50 The difference between chaining and shaping 38:50 “Training Tales”

This episode wraps up (for now) the two episode arc discussing how changing conditions can change motivation with Wouter Stellaard, Behavior 360 and the Kuzo Group. Before listening to this episode, please take the time to listen to Part 1 of this topic which is episode 68 of the podcast. This episode is a direct continuation of Episode 68 in which Wouter discusses a multitude of ways in which we can change conditions to change motivation without utilizing diet/weight management. Wouter discusses strategies if you have come to “the last stop” and determined that the best decision is using food to change motivation. Topics covered include considerations on safety, non-food reinforcers, using all available resources, timing, specific situations, and the importance of record keeping and observations. The episode ends on a reminder that behavior and learning itself is reinforcing and how we should be adding things, not removing them from animals’ lives and behavioral repitoires. Stay tuned in for Wouter’s inspiring “Training Tale” about training the next generation of animal care givers. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Wouter email wstellaard@behavior360.com or wouters@thekuzogroup.com For more information and to register for the 2025 ABMA virtual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/virtual-conference To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 1:40 New ABMA Virtual Conference + Behavior Month Information 3:50 Short recap of Episode 68 - Part 1 10:25 Shifting from Diet/Weight Management to Behavior Management 14:05 Non-Food Reinforcers 17:50 The Last Stop: Using Food to Change Motivation 19:50 Timing of Sessions 21:20 Considerations for Using Food to Change Motivation 24:35 Importance of Record Keeping and Observations 26:15 Considerations About Safety 28:50 Using All the Resources Available to Make the Most Informed Decisions 33:50 Signs that Using Food is Detrimental 39:45 Can the Animal Physically Accomplish the Behavior 41:35 Definition of Depreciation and its Practical Application 44:50 Behavior and Learning are Reinforcing 52:30 “Training Tale”

This episode begins a two episode arc discussing how changing conditions can change motivation with Wouter Stellaard, Behavior 360 and the Kuzo Group. In this episode Wouter discusses the many, and not exclusive, ways in which we can change conditions to change motivation that do not involve diet management. The episode begins by discussing motivation as a construct and a label and then breaking down motivating operations and setting events. Wouter educates on the many ways in which we can alter antecedents and the environment in order to effect motivation. Additionally, Wouter encourages listeners to evaluate ourselves and our shaping plans. Stay tuned in for Wouter’s “Training Tale” about getting into the weeds of training Calm Attentive Behaviors (CAB) with wolves at Bearizona. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Wouter email wstellaard@behavior360.com or wouters@thekuzogroup.com For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: ⁠⁠https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses⁠⁠ To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:50 Introduction to Wouter Stellaard 9:40 A jumping off point for a discussion 11:35 Change from weight management mindset to behavior management mindset 15:10 Definition of Motivation 18:50 Motivation as a label 22:55 Motivation and the Study of One in One Moment 26:20 Definition of Motivating Operations and Setting Events 29:20 Relationship and Trust 30:40 Variety of reinforcers 31:10 Variety of asked behaviors, rate of reinforcement 33:20 Shifting the mindset to what we can do and away from the animal isn’t motivated 37:10 Antecedents and changing the environment 43:50 Evaluating ourselves 49:55 Differential Outcome Effect 52:00 Competing Reinforcers 56:30 Reevaluating our shaping plan 59:40 Low Motivation vs Reinforced Behavior 1:03:50 Social Structure and Hierarchy 1:13:50 “Training Tales”

This episode Ari Bailey, Natural Encounters, Inc., discusses a topic that she will be presenting on at the IAATE Symposium titled “Get Out of the Way and Let Behavior Happen.” The episode is a great conversation that focuses on recognizing when to fade out and when to implement specific tools such as baiting, prompts, target, etc. Ari also gives advice on how to approach others with ideas on changing or trying something new in the training process. The discussion finishes with Ari discussing how getting out of the way of the animal’s behavior can create more consistent and resilient behaviors and learners. Stay tuned in for Ari’s very unique "Training Tale" about the origin story of a terminology for different sizes of peanuts. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Ari email a.bailey@naturalencounters.com ⁠ For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: ⁠https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses⁠ To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 4:30 Introduction to Ari Bailey 12:55 “Get Out of the Way and Let the Behavior Happen” 21:10 How to recognize that it’s time to move on from an approximation 30:30 Using baiting, targets, prompts in the shaping process 42:00 Advice on how to approach teammates with moving to the next approximation 46:10 How to approach teammates about “testing” something new 53:00 How does this correlate to consistent and resilient behaviors? 1:02:05 “Training Tales”

This episode Dr. Susan Friedman, Behavior Works, provides some great learning and insights into a multitude of current topics surrounding the science of behavior change. Dr. Friedman starts with discussing the Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures; what it is, how we can view it to provide optimal welfare to animals, and also the importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment to behavior change. She also breaks down what it means and looks like in practice when we strive for most positive, least intrusive, effective intervention. Dr. Friedman then gives a summary on the free operant approach to enrichment. She finishes the discussion by diving into the concept of control by honoring the no and shaping the yes. Stay tuned in for Dr. Friedman’s very unique "Training Tale" about plant learning. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Dr. Friedman email ⁠ sgf@behaviorworks.org For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025 Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 5:10 Introduction to Dr. Susan Friedman and Behavior Works 19:25 Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures 27:00 Most Positive, Least Intrusive, Effective Intervention 36:20 The importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment on behavior 48:05 Free Operant approach to enrichment 1:07:00 Honor the No, Shape the Yes

This episode, through daily live recordings, features a recap of the 2025 ABMA Annual Conference (April 27 - May 2 2025) hosted by Moody Gardens in Galveston, Texas, United States. Each day of the conference, one of the presenters for the day discusses their presentation and other learning that impacted them. Day 1: Marie Filipek, Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park Day 2: Heidi Moomaw, Charles River Labs Day 3: Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo Day 4: Matthew Nguyen & Li Shan Tan, Resorts World Sentosa If you are an ABMA member be sure to log in to Animalprofessional.com to watch most of the presentations and panels from the 2025 conference. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! Here is the link to the podcast survey. We really appreciate your feedback! https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025 Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 5:10 Discussion of Conference Day 1 with Marie Filipek, Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park. 12:15 Discussion of Conference Day 2 with Heidi Moomaw, Charles River Labs 35:10 Discussion of Conference Day 3 with Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo 53:15 Discussion of Conference Day 4 with Matthew Nguyen & Li Shan Tan, Resorts World Sentosa

This episode was a live panel recording at the 2025 ABMA annual conference in Galveston Texas hosted by Moody Gardens. The expert panel consisted of Tim Sullivan - Brookfield Zoo, Elly Neumann - Jerusalem Zoo, Nicki Boyd- San Diego Zoo, Anaka Nazareth - National Aquarium, and Chris Jenkins - Natural Encounters Inc. The panel’s theme was “The Importance of Behavior in Modern Animal Care” with questions submitted in real time from the conference attendees. The panel discussed a wide range of topics ranging from the growth of the role behavior plays in welfare to the evolution and next steps in enrichment, to advice on getting buy-in for change. In the absence of a “Training Tale” for this episode, each of the panelists utilize their years of experience to provide their “Animal Behavior Advice”. For questions or suggestions about the podcast or to get in contact with the panelists email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!

This episode Steve Martin, President and CEO of Natural Encounters, Inc., discusses training on a continuum by moving away from coercion and towards genuine choice. Steve starts the episode by giving a review of the concepts of choice and… control with some practical examples. The discussion then turns to breaking down behavioral degrees of freedom, genuine choice, and coercion with many more great practical examples. The episode ends with Steve outlining that real-world animal training requires us to train on the continuum but always striving towards providing genuine choice in order to enhance an animal’s welfare. Stay tuned in for Steve’s motivation and emotional "Training Tale" about a trainer from a show at the Singapore Zoo. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Steve email s.martin@naturalencounters.com⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:45 Introduction to Steve Martin 9:25 Review of Choice and… Control 18:55 Degrees of Behavioral Freedom 28:20 Free Choice 30:35 Genuine Choice 44:05 Coercion 56:15 Training on the Continuum 1:04:15 “Training Tales”

This episode Mel Paynter and Alyse Stitt, Georgia Aquarium, discuss motivation in the context of animal behavior and training. In part 1 of this two episode discussion Mel and Alyse discuss what motivation is, what it looks like in practice, and give some o-fish-ally great examples from the many aquatic species that they work with in the Ocean Voyager habitat at the Georgia Aquarium. They both dive deeper into breaking down and discussing some of the numerous stimuli and events that can affect motivation. The discussion finishes with their advice on how to productively and effectively use motivation as a tool in our training toolbox and not as a label. Stay tuned in for Mel and Alyse’s “Training Tales” that focus on how the fish they have worked with have taught them and changed their perspective. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Mel and Alyse email mpaynter@georgiaaquarium.org or AStitt@georgiaaquarium.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:25 Introduction to Mel Paynter and Alyse Stitt 8:15 Overview of Ocean Voyager habitat at Georgia Aquarium 10:15 Definition of Motivation 13:45 Definition of Motivating Operations Affects on Motivation: 17:10 Food and Enrichment 24:00 Breeding/Courtship 34:00 Social Structure/Situations 39:50 Environment 43:35 Weather/Seasonality 45:00 Learning History 47:50 Animal’s physical ability to do something 48:50 Previous access to resources 50:35 Differences in motivation among individuals 59:25 Advice for using motivation productively and effectively, not as a label 1:05:35 “Training Tales”

This episode Shane Gorbett, Philadelphia Zoo and host of the podcast, discusses and breaks down fading. Shane first discusses examples of what fading looks like in practice and how we can apply the artful application of the science of behavior change in order to know when and how to fade. Shane also discusses the challenges of fading too quickly, too slowly, or not at all. Stay tuned in for Shane’s "Training Tale" about Nile crocodile crate training and the importance of paying attention to the communication that we provide to animals. Visit www.theabma.org for more information and for questions or suggestions about the podcast or to contact Shane, email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 5:35 Introduction to Shane Gorbett 14:10 Definition of Fading and Examples 25:10 Fading to change a behavior’s cue. 28:00 How do we know when to fade? 31:50 What happens if we fade too quickly? 37:35 What happens if we fade too slowly? 39:05 What happens if we never fade at all? 42:55 “Training Tale”

This episode Tricia Dees, the second vice president of the ABMA, continues on with the discussion from Episode 59 and goes deeper into primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers. Tricia gives some common examples of primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers but also talks about how individual preference plays a role in determining what is actually a reinforcer for each individual. The discussion then turns to why and how we can condition a reinforcer and the importance of watching the animal’s behavior to ensure that a conditioned reinforcer maintains its effectiveness. Stay tuned in for Tricia’s “Training Tale” about how she used learning from a presentation at an ABMA conference about zebra training with an otter. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Tricia email sponsorship@theabma.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 4:05 Introduction to Tricia Dees 6:10 Definition of a Primary/Unconditioned Reinforcer 8:50 Definition of a Secondary/Conditioned Reinforcer 11:50 Are primary and secondary reinforcers the same for every individual in a species? 19:25 Why would we condition a reinforcer? 22:00 Example of how to condition a reinforcer and how to tell if it is an effective reinforcer 30:45 How to tell if a conditioned reinforcer has lost its effectiveness as a reinforcer 36:30 “Training Tales”

Welcome back for the first episode of 2025! This episode Shawna Spencer, Coral World Ocean Park, dives deeper into breaking down reinforcers and punishers. This episode is full of examples and practical applications. Shawna starts with a brief introduction to primary and secondary reinforcers before listing examples of common reinforcers and punishers. The episode finishes with a discussion about how reinforcers can change over time and how to tell if something is no longer a reinforcer for an animal. Stay tuned in for Shawna’s two doggone great “Training Tales”, one featuring dog training in German. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by listening or visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Shawna email spencers702@gmail.com⁠ Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:20 Introduction to Shawna Spencer 13:10 Information about the 2025 ABMA Annual Conference in Galveston, Texas 19:50 Definitions of Reinforcers and Punishers 23:05 What can be a reinforcer or punisher 25:10 Definition of Primary Reinforcers 25:45 Definition and application of Secondary Reinforcers 34:10 Examples of common reinforcers 42:10 Examples of common punishers 52:35 If something is a reinforcer will it always be a reinforcer? 57:40 How to tell if something is no longer a reinforcer? 1:01:00 “Training Tales”

This episode Jose Bello, Disney’s Animals, Science and Environment, discusses superstitious behavior. Jose starts with breaking down what it means for a behavior to be superstitious and examples of what that looks like in a practical application. Next, Jose educates about the “potential danger” in labeling behaviors as superstitious and how taking the blame away from the animal and placing it on us as the trainers, can give us a better understanding of what is accidentally reinforcing or punishing a superstitious behavior. The episode ends with a discussion and a reminder that all behavior has function and how that mindset can help trainers and teams have a cohesive understanding of superstitious behaviors. Stay tuned in for Jose’s o-fish-ally great "Training Tale" about a guest’s reaction to water kenneling fish. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Jose email Jose.Bello@disney.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 7:00 Introduction to Jose Bello 10:05 Definition and practical application of superstitious behavior 14:55 What does it look like if something is accidentally reinforced? 16:15 How to identify a superstitious behavior? 19:10 What is the potential “danger” in labeling a behavior as superstitious? 21:25 If there is a “potential danger”, should we still call behaviors superstitious? 23:50 How can having extra communication about superstitious behaviors arising from accidental reinforcement help with any labels that may come with the term? 25:50 Advice for recognizing that a behavior has been accidentally reinforced and isn’t just “something the animal always does” 28:05 Recognizing what is actually the reinforcer(s) or punisher(s) for a superstitious behavior? 29:30 All behavior has function 33:45 “Training Tales”

In a special ABMA Behavior Month 2024 episode, Jonelle Mason, California National Primate Research Center - UC Davis, discusses training and behavior in a research setting. Jonelle educates about the similarities and differences between training, cooperative care, and enrichment programs in a zoo compared to a research setting. Additionally, Jonelle talks about some of the unique challenges that arise and the future of behavior management within a research setting. Stay tuned in for Jonelle's "Training Tale" about training her pet corn snake to help with a regurgitation issue. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Jonelle email jmason@ucdavis.edu Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 4:35 Intro to Jonelle Mason 7:35 Comparison of behavior and training in a research vs zoo setting 16:45 Comparison of husbandry and cooperative care training 20:25 Considerations for research related training 29:10 Creating positive human-animal relationships 30:50 Enrichment programs in a research setting 33:30 Lessons from a research setting 35:10 The future of behavior management in a research setting 39:00 “Training Tale”

This episode Sam Meinke, Palm Beach Zoo, and podcast host, Shane Gorbett, discusses what it means to be a modern zookeeper. The definition of what a zookeeper is and does has drastically changed and is constantly evolving as we continue to progress animal care forward. Some other modern zookeepers were kind enough to share what being a modern zookeeper means to them so Sam and Shane dissect those answers as we redefine what it means to be a zookeeper. The discussion wraps up with the importance of redefining what a modern zookeeper is and does both for the knowledge of the public but also for those currently in the field or hoping to start their careers. Stay tuned in for Sam's "Training Tales" which involves a ground hornbill and a "long cheetah turd". For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Sam you can message him on Facebook or Instagram. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:20 Introduction to Sam Meinke 4:40 Definition of a Zookeeper and redefining into a Modern Zookeeper 13:40 Using the past as a baseline to grow from and do better 20:20 A Modern Zookeeper…. Adapts to new information 22:50 Progressive, Use the artful application of scientific principles 23:45 Knows the individual animals 25:20 Creative, thinks outside the box for enriching the lives of animals 28:20 Responsible for providing each individual animal the best life possible 30:22 Creates a bond with the animals, knows each of their personalities 32:00 Eager to share their special connection with everyone 32:50 Strives to create positive connections in all interactions, changing the mindset from making to asking 36:46 Does research, looks to natural history of animals 38:15 Selfless, puts the animals’ needs above their own, open to feedback 39:20 Prioritizes behavioral management as a necessity 41:30 Focuses on animal wellbeing 43:10 Importance of redefining the modern zookeeper 45:40 Advice on changing the mindset of a team into striving to be modern zookeeprs 49:00 “Training Tales”

This episode Rick Hester, Cheyenne Mountain Zoo and BehaviorWorks, discusses a free operant approach to behavior management. Rick starts with explaining the practical application of free operant behavior and, in order to get the full scope, also discusses discrete trial training and the relationship between the two. Breaking down some of the science, Rick educates about Lindsley's (1996) Four Free Operant Freedoms and the considerations for providing and maintaining a free operant environment (depletion, satiation, and dosage of resources). Rick finishes the episode with giving advice on how to start curating free operant environments by celebrating each approximation. Stay tuned in for a "dam" great "Training Tale" about creating a free operant environment for beavers using the sound of running water. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Rick email rph@behaviorworks.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 6:40 Definition and application of “Free Operant” 10:05 Definition and application of Discrete Trial Training (DTT) 14:10 Connecting the dots between environmental enrichment and free operant principles 16:55 The Freedom to Present Stimuli 17:20 The Freedom to Repeat Responses Many Times to Each Signal 17:50 The Freedom to Form Responses 18:20 The Freedom to Slow or Speed Responses 19:15 Considerations for providing and maintaining a free operant environment 20:40 Resource Depletion 23:20 Satiation of Resources 24:50 Dosage of Resources 28:00 Advice for Getting Team Buy-In; Using Approximations 35:35 The balance between free operant and discrete trial training 39:50 “Training Tales”

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the human side of the animal care field. In this episode Scott Trauger, Natural Encounters, Inc., dives deeper into a discussion centered around his presentation at the 2024 ABMA Annual Conference titled "Expanding Our Feedback Loop: Evolving the Way that We Give Feedback to Our Peers". Scott discusses the different types of feedback and considerations to think about in order to effectively give specific and honest, but also kind, feedback. Scott also discusses the thought of also giving choice and... control to people while providing feedback. Stay tuned in for a "Training Tale" about how Scott used his tree climbing skills and relationship to rescue a pied crow. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Scott contact him on the ABMA Community or email michael.scott.trauger@gmail.com If you are an ABMA member you can watch Scott's presentation on animalprofessional.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 2:10 Introduction to Scott Trauger 6:05 “Expanding Our Feedback Loop: Evolving the Ways we Give Feedback to Our Peers” 7:55 Using the word “Feedback” vs “Criticism” 12:05 Different Types of Feedback 18:40 Importance of Individual Relationships 23:30 Being honest and specific but also kind 27:15 Reinforcing the behaviors/responses you want to see happen again 29:30 Recapping or following up after feedback 31:15 Starting with heart and the human, not evidence 35:10 Giving choice and… control to people 43:00 “Training Tales”

This episode we are joined by Tegan Noel, San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, to discuss some practical applications and examples of providing choice and... control. This episode is a continuation of Episode 50 where Ken Ramirez broke down the science of choice and... control. The episode starts with Tegan commenting how the focus of those two topics have changed and shaped behavior in recent years. Additionally, she educates about what it means to remove "forced" choice and providing control through the use of encouraging animals to say now. Tegan gives thoughtful examples of providing choice and... control and why it is not only important for animal care professionals to have an understanding but also the public. Stay tuned in for Tegan's interesting "Training Tale" about a pygmy falcon who decided to create an awkward ending to a show. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Tegan you can email tnoel@sdzwa.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 2:45 Introduction to Teagan Noel 5:40 How has the focus on choice and control evolved and changed the way we care for animals? 11:30 Giving animals control and encouraging animals to “say no” while still receiving active participation 16:00 Practical examples of providing choice and control: Squirrel Monkeys 28:35 Practical example: Control over putting on a harness (coati, wombat) 31:10 Giving more control and removing “forced” choice 40:35 Importance of providing choice and control from the view of the pubic 49:40 Advice for starting the process of providing more control 54:35 “Training Tales”

This episode we are joined once again by Chris Jenkins of Natural Encounters, Inc. in order to dive deeper into Antecedents, specially looking at Distant Antecedents and navigating the role they play in behavior. This episode is a continuation of Episode 6 where Chris broke down the fundamentals of Antecedents. The episode starts with defining the difference between immediate and distant antecedents and then shifts to the slippery slope that is labeling behavior using distant antecedents as the reason. Chris educates about how behavior is influenced by a myriad of environmental conditions and gives advice on how to take away the subjectivity of a distant antecedent and instead listen to what the animal and their behavior is telling us. Stay tuned in for Chris's interesting "Training Tale" about a double mouth open with a tapir! Additionally check out "The TEC Talk Podcast: Presented by Natural Encounters, Inc.", a like-minded podcast hosted by Chris and Ari Bailey! For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Chris you can find his contact information on the Natural Encounters, Inc. website. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:10 Introduction to Chris Jenkins 7:10 Immediate vs Distant Antecedents 13:20 Antecedents affecting motivation and how our view of them can affect behavior 15:50 Not letting our “arrogance” create roadblocks or excuses for behavior 21:30 Using antecedents to inform decisions while not labeling 26:25 Past consequences become future antecedents 33:00 Using behavioral observations vs our subjective thoughts 37:15 Recognizing that behavior is influenced by more than one condition 41:10 Advice for encouraging others to not place “blame” on distant antecedents 48:55 Critical role us as the human trainers play in behavior 51:50 “Training Tales”

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the human side of the animal care field. In this episode Justin Garner, Committee Chair for The ABMA, helps to give advice on how to successfully implement change. The discussion begins with ideas and advice on communicating ideas to others and how to then put those ideas into action. Justin and Shane also talk through ideas to overcome some of the common "roadblocks" to successfully implementing change including not enough time, we've always done it this way, and a lack of resources. Stay tuned in for a "Training Tale" about a ground hornbill's love for popcorn and how that almost prevented a new idea from coming to fruition. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Justin contact him on the ABMA Community or email justingarner80@gmail.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:10 Introduction to Justin Garner 4:35 Realistically starting to make change 13:45 Putting the focus on the animals and off yourself 18:50 Leading by example 28:20 Building relationships with your teammates 34:25 Potential Roadblock: “We don’t have enough time for this change” 41:20 Potential Roadblock: “This is what we have always done” 54:40 Potential Roadblock: “Lack of resources” 1:00:00 Be real, show your passions 1:03:20 Not being afraid to fail 1:06:55 Training Tales