The Crime Cafe

The Crime Cafe once again is pleased to bring another episode from the annals of Old Time Radio! With one of my favorite protagonists–Philip Marlowe! With Gerald Mohr in the title role! Get early access to ad-free episodes and bonuses, when you become a Patron!

My guest interview this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is with the spy thriller novelist, Howard Kaplan. He has a fascinating story or two in him, for sure. For a PDF copy of the transcript, click here. Debbi (00:12): Hi everyone. My guest today has a most interesting background in international affairs. I would like to talk to him more about that, actually. Let's just say his work was so interesting, he got picked up by the KGB and interrogated. Okay. A native of Los Angeles, he's lived in Israel and traveled throughout Lebanon, Syria, and Egypt. He's the author of the Jerusalem Spy Series, the latest of which is The Syrian Sunset. It's my pleasure to have with me Howard Kaplan. Hi Howard. How are you doing today? Howard (01:32): I'm doing fine, thank you. Debbi (01:34): Excellent. Good, good. Your background is just fascinating. At the age of 21, you actually were sent on a mission to smuggle out of Russia, a Soviet dissident's manuscript on microfilm to London? Howard (01:47): Yes. I actually went to Russia twice to consecutive summers. It was right around my birthday's in July, so I think it was one right before I was 21, and right around the time I was 22. And it was old school stuff. These were before the technology era where at that time the KGB had a single agent who monitored every Xerox machine in the Soviet Union. They could do that because it was a crime to have unemployment. So they gave everybody a job and they used to have something called Samizdat, which was self-published, where people would go into a typewriter and type a manuscript with onion skin, which is very thin paper and carbon paper. Most people don't even know what these things are anymore. Debbi: (02:51): I do. Howard (02:52): And you would get several copies and they would be circulated underground. So I was not involved in how they transferred this manuscript to microfilm, however I was involved. When I met with them, I had, again, pre-digital age, lots of rolls of film in a camera bag, some exposed pictures I'd taken, some not. So we took a, this was prearranged, a fresh roll of film, slid open the box carefully so it could be reglued together, opened the Kodak yellow canister, removed the regular film, placed the microfilm in, taped a lead of film back in because they used to come with like six inches of film sticking out and glued the box together and threw it in the box. Wasn't somebody, I thought it was a very good idea and it was unchallenged on the way out. Debbi (04:00): And it was much less conspicuous than a pumpkin.Howard (04:06): So I was bold and I thought, oh, this is easy. I can go back every year and do this kind of thing. And that turned out to be misconstrued because I went back the next year and I got arrested for meeting with dissidents. But fortunately, I'd actually transferred a different manuscript to the Dutch Embassy at that time because again, they're KGB agents. They would stand outside a little phone booth like a London booth, and Russians couldn't enter a foreign embassy. But when I was arrested, I didn't have anything incriminating on me, and they didn't know actually about any of these prior events. They didn't even know I'd been in Russia the year before. I had a new passport, still with my name, and they were just picking me up for meeting with dissidents, with people protesting the government.(05:06): And so they interrogated me for a few days. It was generally polite. Interestingly, in Moscow, the Russians have a great interest in Jack London, in the writer, I think because the Canadian Arctic, if that's a proper term, is reminiscent of the Soviet North, the Russian North and Siberia. And so they're very akin to his writings. He's one of the writers that's most sought after in Russia. Now they can get books. It's a different world. And they asked me a lot about Jack London novels, and I wondered if this was for a long time, meaning years. I wondered was this surreptitious?

My guest this week on the Crime Cafe podcast is the award-winning author of the Detective Parrott and Quinn McFarland Mystery Series, Saralyn Richard! Check out our discussion about her latest work, including the Quinn McFarland novels and a new historical novel in the works, inspired by her grandparents, about the 1900 Storm in Galveston, Texas. Treat yourself to a PDF copy of the transcript. Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today is the award-winning author of the Detective Parrot Mysteries and the Quinn McFarland Mysteries, as well as other books. Her laudable goal is to change the world one book at a time, which I think is a great, great goal. It's my pleasure to introduce today's guest, Saralyn. Richard. Hi, Saralyn. How are you doing? It's been a long time. Saralyn (01:19): I'm good. It's wonderful to be back with you, Debbi. Debbi (01:23): It's wonderful to have you on. Thank you. Before we delve into the world of Quinn McFarland, I have to ask about good old Detective Parrott. Do you plan to continue that series? Saralyn (01:37): I do. I do. Debbi (01:39): Awesome. Saralyn (01:40): But I generally give him a rest and he gives me a rest after a book just to have some time to regroup and have some new things happen in his life. New things happen in my life. So I kind of alternate between Detective Parrott books and other books. Debbi (02:04): That's a great approach actually. That way you don't get burnt on doing the same sort of thing. It adds a little variety. Saralyn (02:14): And he doesn't get burned with me asking a million questions. I like it when he comes to me and he whispers in my ear and I don't have to beg and plead for, give me a new story. Debbi (02:31): That's great. I like that. That's absolutely a wonderful approach. What inspired you to write about a woman who works in her family's mortuary? Saralyn (02:43): Well, Quinn is more than that. She works in that mortuary because she is kind of withdrawn from society. She had a very bad experience when she was young in high school, and she doesn't really trust people. She really just kind of resorts to her family business, which happens to be a mortuary, and there she can be herself. She doesn't have to worry because dead people don't hurt you and they don't talk about you and they don't tell lies about you and things like that. So she's gotten very comfortable in that life and in the first book, which was Bad Blood Sisters, she was just about to turn 30, and it was a big aha moment for her that life is passing her by and she's not accomplishing any of her goals. Originally, she wanted to be in the medical profession, and she is an embalmer, so that is considered the medical profession, but she wanted to be on the living side of things, and she hasn't done that. (04:17): She hasn't gotten married, she hasn't had a family. She hasn't really made friends since high school. And so she's uncomfortable with the place that she's in in her life, and boom, suddenly she's thrown into solving a mystery and she becomes an amateur sleuth, and that's Bad Blood Sisters. And by the end of Bad Blood Sisters, she is getting herself more on track. When the second book begins, which is Mrs. Oliver's Twist, she has foresworn police matters and crime. She doesn't want to have anything to do with that anymore, and she actually wants to leave the mortuary business and become a physician's assistant. And she's applied to that school and she's about to get in and she's feeling a little guilty that she's leaving her family in the lurch, but she's ready to move on and she's promised, well, she's now got a husband. That's a bit of a spoiler, but she's promised him and she's promised her parents no more criminal activity, no more searching for perpetrators. (05:41): And then suddenly she is thrown into another mystery because her very favorite teacher from high school who helped her get through that rough period in high school turns up dead,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is clinical psychotherapist and crime writer Harper Kincaid. Learn more about the challenges and joys of the writing life, along with the inspiration for her books and advice for anyone who wants to write. Download a copy of the transcript here. Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today is the USA Today bestselling author of the books in the Bookbinder Mystery series, Bookbinding Mystery series. Her work has been published in a variety of publications including Writer's Digest Magazine and CrimeReads, and many, many others. It's my pleasure to have with me today, Harper Kincaid. Hi Harper. Harper (01:19): Hey, Deb. To everybody here. Such a fabulous treat to be able to meet with you today and talk. Debbi (01:26): Awesome. Yeah, it's great to meet you too. And I love your name, Harper. You weren't named for Harper Lee, were you? Harper (01:32): No, and honestly, it's a pen name because I'm also a licensed clinical psychotherapist, and so I try to keep, I don't really keep the streams very separate anymore, but when I first started writing, I was doing child and adolescent social work and I was writing dirty romance and people getting killed. So maybe you want to not have that come up in the same Google search for that kind of thing. Debbi (02:03): Understandable. Yes, very much so. Let's see. You were born in California and raised in Florida. Then—I love this quote—"moved like a nomad with a bounty" on your head. Harper (02:15): I did. Debbi (02:17): Where are you living now? Harper (02:19): So I have lived right outside of Washington DC in a town, Vienna, Virginia, Northern Virginia. Actually, the Bookbinding series is based there and in the series we're not going to talk too much about it, but it's a combination of places and people and businesses that are really there and some that I've made up. And a girlfriend of mine said it's Vienna zhuzhed up in the books. So I've been there for almost 20 years at this point. But it's true. I lived in New Orleans, I lived all over South Florida. I lived in Northern California, but we're East Coasters and we are there in the DC area, which is an interesting time to be there, to say the least. Debbi (03:04): Well, cool. I'm glad you're relatively close to where I am. Harper (03:10): And where are you based? Remind me. Debbi (03:10): I'm in Columbia, Maryland. Harper (03:13): Oh, I'm going to wave. *waving* Debbi (03:16): Hey! *waving* Right across the river. Hey, there, across the river, Vienna and all that. Wow. Harper (03:24): It's nice. It's funny, when I first came to the area, I did not understand this demarcation between Maryland and Virginia that people, like Virginia people did not really go over to Maryland, vice versa. And I was like, it's not that far. What's the big deal? And I don't know if that's ever been your experience, but that was something I found really strange. Debbi (03:47): I have found a little peculiar myself when I first came here because I'm originally from New York and I've lived in all these different places too, like California, Pennsylvania, and then back DC for one summer. I mean, it's just here, there and everywhere. Indeed. So when you encounter something like that, you're kind like, what? Harper (04:11): Yeah, every region, I guess. Debbi (04:13): And then there's the traffic. Harper (04:13): Oh, the traffic is never going to get better. Debbi (04:18): Oh, it is outrageous around here. It really is, and it always makes its way into my books somehow. I mean, I write about around here and one of the things I always write about is traffic. The traffic is terrible. Harper (04:30): It's true. Everyone can relate to that for sure. Debbi (04:32): For sure. Yeah, and anytime I've been in Los Angeles, everybody there is so polite by comparison to here, yet people complain about the traffic there and I just don't understand it. Harper (04:44): Every region has its little pecca...

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is journalist and crime writer Jonathan Whitelaw. Wherein we discuss important topics like treating your writing career like a business. Along with really great topics, like Doctor Who, James Bond, and Terry Pratchett. Just sayin'. :) You can download a PDF of the transcript here. Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. My guest today is an award-winning journalist and author. He once worked in Scottish politics, then moved into journalism where he covered a wide variety of topics for major publications. He appears on the Bloody Brothers Podcast and the Bloody Scotland Book Club. His novel, The Concert Hall Killer, was recently shortlisted for the Whodunnit Award for Best Traditional Mystery by the Crime Writers of Canada. Originally from Scotland, from Glasgow, he is now living in Canada in Alberta. It's my pleasure to have with me Jonathan Whitelaw. Hi, Jonathan. How are you doing? Jonathan (01:37): Hi there. I'm very well, thank you, Debbi. Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Debbi (01:42): Oh, it is a pleasure to have you on, and I love your accent. It is so beautiful and musical. Jonathan (01:49): Thank you very much. It's the only one I have. Debbi (01:51): I love it. I love it. It's great. Jonathan (01:54): Very kind. Debbi (01:55): What was it that took you from Glasgow to Alberta? Jonathan (02:00): My wife. Short and sweet and simple answer, much like her, except the simple part, obviously far from it, she's the brains of the operation and I often say that I always like to try to think that I'm the eye candy of the operation, but I'm not even that, so she's that as well. So yeah, my wife's a doctor, so a few years ago it was pre-pandemic actually. She was at a conference and she got chatting to an expat doctor who's working in a place called North Battleford in Saskatchewan, and he was there promoting Western Canada. And him and my wife got chatting and he effectively offered her a job, but of course, with the pandemic and then my wife completing their training and stuff like that, I was having a baby. Everything got kicked into the very, very long grass for a couple of years, and the job was no longer there when we were ready for it. So by that point, we'd really talked ourselves into it and we'd explored all the options and stuff like that about coming over and visas and permanent residency and things and citizenship beyond that. And we found that there was a job opening in Alberta. A place called Grand Prairie, which is about an hour's flight northwest from Calgary. And that was it. We up sticks and moved wagons west in May 2022, and we haven't looked back since. [W]e found that there was a job opening in Alberta. A place called Grand Prairie, which is about an hour's flight northwest from Calgary. And that was it. We up sticks and moved wagons west in May 2022, and we haven't looked back since. Debbi (03:29): Wow. That's really something. Jonathan (03:31): Yeah Debbi (03:32): You can write from anywhere, so that's cool. Jonathan (03:35): Exactly right. Well, I was a journalist as your very, very kind intro mentioned there. I was a journalist, but I write full-time now. I've been able to go full-time writing since we moved to Canada, so it's over three years that I've been a full-time writer. And it was a mixture of circumstances. It was a mixture of where we were going and what we're going to be doing and stuff like that, and The Bingo Hall Detectives as a series sort of picking up. So yeah, it's been a great adventure. We've been made to feel very, very welcome here in Alberta and Canada in general. Debbi (04:13): It's fantastic. Jonathan (04:14): And I get to go back to the UK all the time for work. I go back for festivals and stuff like that, and it's only one flight from Calgary, which is great. So it's just a red eye there, and then you're back during the day. So it is good fun,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer and media entrepreneur, Clay Stafford. Don't miss our discussion of the ways the publishing and filmmaking worlds collide, so to speak. :) To download a PDF of the transcript, just click here. Debbi (00:54): Hi everyone. We are back with a new season of the show, which is starting its 11th year. I can't believe I've been doing it this long. And once again, I have with me one of the crime genre's most multimedia and multihyphenate entrepreneurs out there. His business, American Blackguard, does film and television production as well as publishing. He's also the organizer and promoter for the Killer Nashville Conference, which will be coming up later this year. It's my pleasure to introduce my guest, Clay Stafford. Hi, Clay. How are you doing? Clay (01:34): Hi, Debbi, Debbi (01:34): Gotta get you on camera. There we go. Clay (01:38): Hey, how are you? Debbi (01:39): I'm fine, thank you. How are you? Clay (01:41): Eleven years. Debbi (01:42): Eleven freaking years. Can you freaking believe? Clay (01:45): Stamina. Stamina. Debbi (01:47): It's insane. There's stamina. Yeah, I'm mustering up the stamina to keep it going. Yeah. Clay (01:56): Well, for Killer Nashville, we're coming up on 20 years. Debbi (01:59): Wow, that's impressive. Clay (02:02): Yeah, so ... stamina. Debbi (02:06): Amen to that, man. Amen. I hear you. Apart from getting ready for the conference, what projects are you currently working on? What's on your front burner, so to speak? Clay (02:17): I've actually got three projects that I'm working on right now. One is a nonfiction book and the other is a memoir. And because I come from a very eclectic kind of Appalachian background, and then Country Boy went to the city, and so there's some things to discuss there. And then I'm working on a novel now, the first in his series, and it's got a few short stories and poems and stuff like that out and some essays, but those are the long-term projects that I'm working on right now. Debbi (02:58): Very cool. It's funny you should say you were a country boy who found the city. I was a city girl who ended up in the country. Briefly. Clay (03:10): Yeah. So I sort of came back. I was a New York guy, a Los Angeles guy, and a Miami guy, and went back and forth from place to place in those areas, but ended up in Nashville. So I don't know if I'll actually, we can call Nashville the country, but it's back towards home where I'm from in Tennessee. Debbi (03:38): It's not quite as country as say, Bakersfield, California. Clay (03:43): No, I've been to Bakersfield. I love Bakersfield. But no, it's still, we've got our family farm back in east Tennessee, and so I've still got roots in that area and spend a lot of time in north Georgia and areas like that. So I get out in the tick country, so. Debbi (04:10): Excellent, excellent. Very good. Nashville is also a big place for music, correct? Clay (04:16): Yeah, they do a little bit of music here, Debbi (04:20): A little bit of music, just a little, Clay (04:26): Yeah. And the little community I live in is replete with country music and gospel pop performers, writers, producers and stuff. And so we have these tour buses that come by all the time, and I never thought I would live in an area where tour buses come by to point at houses and things and say, so and so lives there, so-and-so lives there, but it's just, yeah, Nashville's got its charm, that's for sure. Debbi (05:00): My goodness, that must be quite a thing. Having tour buses come through your neighborhood. Things have changed so fast in terms of the publishing industry and the movie industry and the television industry that I see them kind of coming together. Do you have any thoughts on that? Clay (05:24): Well, I think that they're definitely tied together now because we are in a position where we're doing IP, intellectual property more. That's what I focus on more right now.

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer J.D. Barker. Don't miss our discussion on writing across different genres and the benefits of collaborative writing. You can download a copy of transcript here. Debbi (00:52): Hi everyone. My guest today is a New York Times and international bestselling author whose work has been broadly described as suspense thrillers, often incorporating elements of horror, crime mystery, science fiction and supernatural. That's quite a bit. His debut novel Forsaken was a finalist for the Bram Stroker Award in 2014. Several of his works have been optioned for adaptation to motion pictures. It's my pleasure to have with me my guest, JD Barker. Hi, JD. How you doing today? J.D. (01:32): I'm doing great, Debbi. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Debbi (01:34): Well, it's my pleasure to have you on, believe me. I'm glad you're here. I love that you have no problem with mixing genres in your work. I think that's awesome. Would you say that there's any particular genre that tends to be dominant in your writing? J.D. (01:51): Well, it's funny. I grew up, I've been writing my entire life, but I worked behind the scenes for about 20 some years. I worked as a book doctor and a ghost writer, basically helping other people get published, and one of the things I saw over and over again is an author would write a particular book and it would hit, and then all of a sudden they had to write that same book, but different for the next 20 books. The publisher just wanted that same book but different, and honestly, that scared me. I didn't want to get caught in that kind of hole, so I made a conscious effort from the very beginning. I'm a huge fan of horror. I'm a huge fan of thrillers, so I basically bounced back and forth, and I think my Wikipedia page probably sums it up the best. I think that's what you were reading from, but I describe it as a suspense novel as the common thread with little elements of horror, of sci-fi of this, of that and what that allows me to do. As long as I keep that thriller-suspense framework in place, I can branch out a little bit and the readers come along for the ride. It's not so different that it frightens 'em off. As long as I keep that thriller-suspense framework in place, I can branch out a little bit and the readers come along for the ride. It's not so different that it frightens 'em off. Debbi (02:51): That's really cool. That's great. So it gives you more flexibility J.D. (02:54): And agents hate it, and publishers hate it because again, they want you to write that same book, but different. But I'm finding that the fans, they actually enjoy it because I'm not giving them the same book every single time. I think it gets old as a reader too, so it allows me to mix it up and just keep it fresh. Debbi (03:12): Totally, I agree. Yeah, so you're directly reaching the readership as opposed to going through what a publisher thinks this should work, which is something I've advocated a long time. J.D. (03:27): Everybody approaches this from different angles, which is something else I picked up on over time. As a business model, publishers really only care about selling that book, the one they have in front of 'em, the one they signed you for. That's really their only priority. But you as an author, you really need to look at your business, your model, your brand, and approach it from that standpoint. And you can really see the stark differences. If you walk into a major bookstore, you walk into a Barnes & Noble and you're going to see pretty much the title of every book is huge. The author name is tiny little print at the top or the bottom. It's an afterthought because the publisher knows they have to put it on there, but they just want to sell that one title. But if you look around that same bookstore at the brand name authors, the ones that we all know, the household names, you see Stephen King, Nora Roberts, James Patterson,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Deven Greene. Check out our discussion about her medical and scientific thrillers. You can download a copy of the interview transcript here. Debbi (00:53): Hi everyone. My guest today writes fiction in the suspense and thriller genres. Most of her works involve science or medicine. She has a PhD in biochemistry and an MD, and she practiced pathology for more than 20 years. Her books include the Erica Rosen Trilogy, Ties That Kill, and her latest novel, The Organ Broker. She's also published several short stories. It's my pleasure to introduce my guest, Deven Greene. Hi, Deven. How are you doing today? Deven (01:29): I'm doing great. How about yourself? Debbi (01:31): Great, thank you. And I'm glad you're here today, so very glad that you're on the show. You live in Northern California? Yes? Deven (01:39): That's correct. Yeah. Debbi (01:40): What part? Because I used to live in Petaluma. Deven (01:43): Oh, okay. Well, I live, you may have heard of then of Orinda, which is a tiny town, but it's near Walnut Creek in Berkeley. Debbi (01:52): Oh, yeah. I remember. It's the Napa Valley, right? Deven (01:55): Yeah. Well, yeah. Debbi (01:57): I'll be darned. Beautiful country up there. Deven (02:01): Yeah, no, I like it here. Debbi (02:03): Yeah. So with a background like yours, I can certainly see how you got inspired to write medical thrillers or science thrillers. When you started writing fiction, did you find you had to kind of adjust your writing to be a bit less formal and more engaging, so to speak? Deven (02:22): Well, it's quite different than writing pathology reports, I'll say that. But I'd say that I've read enough fiction, especially in my genre, to be able to adapt pretty easily. And interestingly, when I first started out, I had a resident working under me, and she wrote a pathology report, and she did a description of everything, but she didn't say what it was, and it was like she was waiting, trying to build up suspense. I said, no, this is a pathology report. You have to say what it is. Debbi (03:04): Yeah, yeah. Just say it. Deven (03:06): Yeah. But it's different in what I'm doing now, Debbi (03:10): For sure. Yeah. I'm sure you do work in technical terms though. And how do you, what's your method for taking complex scientific subjects and making them understandable to the average reader? Deven (03:26): That's a good question. So I really like to put what I call sciencey things in my writing. That's one thing I really enjoy doing, and hopefully people will learn things. So I'll write something and then I'll go through it several times to simplify it, and then I give it to other people to read who are not in the medical or scientific field and get feedback. And a great one is my little brother who didn't know the difference between a gallbladder and a kidney, I found out. So he's a good one. If he can understand it, most people can. So I wind up simplifying. I try to keep it still accurate. Some people may find it too much. I don't know. They can skip over those parts, but that's not the main substance of my books. So I really like to put what I call sciencey things in my writing. That's one thing I really enjoy doing, and hopefully people will learn things. So I'll write something and then I'll go through it several times to simplify it, and then I give it to other people to read who are not in the medical or scientific field and get feedback. Debbi (04:28): You'd rather sprinkle it in than overwhelm with detail? Deven (04:31): Yes, that's my attempt. That's my attempt. Debbi (04:35): I think that's generally the way people approach it. I know that when it comes to legal terminology, I tend to, I used to be very, what'd you call it? Literal in the way I would present something, or very explanatory. It's like, no, no, no, Debbi. Cut back, make it less explanatory, make it more, make it more like fiction. Duh.

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Ed Zuckerman. Check out his wealth of experience a freelance journalist, as well as his work as a debut crime writer! You can download a copy of the transcript here! Debbi (00:52): Hi everyone. My guest today has what most people would consider to be a pretty interesting resume. He began his career as a journalist writing about zombies, killer bees, talking apes and other subjects for Rolling Stone, Spy, the New Yorker, Harpers, Esquire, and many other magazines. He has written two nonfiction books, The Day After World War III and Small Fortunes then moved into writing for television drama, including more than 50 episodes of the original Law and Order, Blue Bloods, and Law and Order SVU. I have that right, don't I? SVU? Ed (01:35): That's correct. Debbi (01:36): Alright. It's my pleasure to introduce my guest, Ed Zuckerman. Hi, Ed. Good to see you here. Ed (01:43): I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Debbi (01:45): Well, it's my pleasure, believe me. And wow. I mean, your guest post just tells an amazing story, and it struck me that you found the information initially in a book where a lot of people would've just stopped and said, oh, I got a book about Nigerian police. That'll do. But you took it farther. You talked to the author and then you went to Nigeria. Ed (02:10): That's right. That's right. Well, I was a journalist, but the first part of my, I've always been a writer, but my first part of my career, I was a journalist, ended up doing a lot of research and enjoyed the travel and enjoyed the research. (02:21): And when I came up with the idea for my novel Wealth Management, one of the characters is a detective from Nigeria who shows up in Switzerland to investigate a crime. Geneva, Switzerland is where the story is set. And instead of just making stuff up about Nigerian police, especially nowadays with concern about being authentic and not making who you're writing for, who writing about, I thought I would find and meet some Nigerian policemen, which was easier said than done. I can retell the story or it's in the blog post that I put on your website. So what do you? [I]nstead of just making stuff up about Nigerian police, especially nowadays with concern about being authentic and not making who you're writing for, who writing about, I thought I would find and meet some Nigerian policemen, which was easier said than done. Debbi (02:58): I will link directly to the website. Ed (03:00): Okay. Debbi (03:00): I think they should read it because really it's a remarkable story to read. Ed (03:05): The short version. I ended up going to Nigeria, which is a tough top. People don't go to Nigeria. Nigerians don't need you, and they expect the same. Tourists are not especially welcome, and you have to be all careful watching your step over there. People don't go to Nigeria. Nigerians don't need you, and they expect the same. Tourists are not especially welcome, and you have to be all careful watching your step over there. Debbi (03:22): Interesting. Very interesting. And the police are not always cooperative. Ed (03:28): They didn't see any reason to cooperate with me, but I did arrange some contacts as I described in my blog post that you can read on the Crime Cafe website. Debbi (03:37): I will be sure and put a link into the notes with this episode for sure. Ed (03:42): Oh, good. Debbi (03:43): Yeah. And you're giving away a copy of the book as I understand it. Ed (03:47): Yes, I am. I have a few left. Debbi (03:50): Awesome, excellent. Because I got to tell you, I'm reading it now and it's very, very compulsive reading. Short chapters. Well-written. Ed (04:01): Well, I did write for a TV for a long time, and for better or worse, the book is structured a little bit like a TV script with short chapters and a lot of dialogue and a good story I hope, but also a substantial dose of humor.

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Brenda Chapman. Brenda discusses her journey from writing for her daughters to becoming a published author, her inspiration for various protagonists, and her writing process. She also shares insights into her latest series, the Hunter and Tate Mysteries, set in Ottawa. Brenda emphasizes the importance of setting in her novels and offers advice for aspiring writers. Check out the interview for more about Brenda's career and her approach to crafting compelling crime fiction. You can download a copy of the transcript here. Debbi (00:52): Hi everyone. My guest today is a Canadian crime fiction author with 25 published novels as well as standalones and short stories. She writes various police procedurals and mystery series for adults as well as mysteries for middle grade readers, which I think is really cool. (01:19): She is currently working on her new mystery series in Ottawa, set in Ottawa called the Hunter and Tate Mysteries. The third book in the series, Fatal Harvest, comes out in April, came out in April 2024. Sorry, excuse me. Her work has been shortlisted for several awards, including the Crime Writers of Canada Awards of Excellence, so wow. Okay. So she was once the writer-editor, I have to note here of the Pest Management Regulatory Agency, which really intrigued me because I used to work at EPA, but we can talk about that later maybe. That stuff is fascinating to me. In any event, it's my pleasure to introduce crime writer Brenda Chapman. Hey Brenda, how are you doing? Brenda (02:10): Great, thanks, Debbi. Thanks for having me. Debbi (02:13): Oh, it's a pleasure, believe me. And finding out that you worked in pest management, wrote about pest management to me is just fascinating. Brenda (02:22): I was only one of a group of writer-editors. Debbi (02:25): Yeah. Well, very cool. Still, we'll have to talk about that at some point. Back when I was practicing law, I worked at the Office of General Counsel, Pesticides and Toxics Division, so I worked a lot on FIFRA, the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act. What a mouthful, right? Brenda (02:49): Fiction is much more fun. Debbi (02:53): So anyway, when you first started writing fiction with serious Intent to be published, what inspired you to write for middle graders? Brenda (03:02): Well, my daughters were 12 and nine, and I was actually teaching at the time. I was teaching kids with special ed and reading with some of them, and I thought—one girl brought in a book to read aloud to me, and I thought I could do a better plot than this. And that got me spurred into trying it, and it was really just to see if I could do it. So I wrote the Jennifer Bannon Mysteries. The first one was called Running Scared, and I really wrote it for my daughters. And when I finished the manuscript and my youngest was reading it and she said, "Mummy, you write just like a real author." And I thought, wow, maybe I can get this published. So I spent my lunch hours trying to find a publisher and found one in Toronto. They took that first one and it turned into a four book series in the end. The first one was called Running Scared, and I really wrote it for my daughters. And when I finished the manuscript and my youngest was reading it and she said, "Mummy, you write just like a real author." Debbi (03:57): That's awesome. So you found one in Toronto then? That's great. Brenda (04:01): Yeah. Debbi (04:03): Fantastic. Is it a small press? Brenda (04:04): It was. They've been absorbed by Dundurn, which is a bigger middle press in Toronto, and they've taken over my books from that time and the Stonechild and Rouleau series, which is ... I went from writing for kids to writing for adults, and I did the Stonechild and Rouleau series, which is seven books set in Kingston with an indigenous lead detective, a woman, Kala Stonechild, and yeah, that series has done quite well,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Carter Wilson. Don't miss our discussion of his process for writing thrillers without outlining. You can download the transcript here. Debbi (00:53): Hi everyone. My guest today is not only the Publisher's Weekly and USA Today bestselling author of 10 award-winning psychological thrillers, but his work has been optioned for television and film, and his latest release, Tell Me What You Did, was a Barnes and Noble National Monthly pick. Awesome. He also hosts a podcast Making It Up, and is founder of the Unbound Writer Company, which provides coaching services, writing retreats, and online courses. So he is a busy man. He has also contributed short fiction to various publications and was featured in RL Stein's young adult anthology Scream and Scream Again. I'm pleased to have with me today Carter Wilson. Hi Carter. Thanks for being here! Carter (01:46): For having me here. Debbi great. Great to talk to you. Debbi (01:49): Oh, it's great to have you here. Thank you so much. Tell us a little about your latest book and what inspired you to write it. Carter (01:58): Well, I'll start with the inspiration. A few years ago, I have a buddy named Blake and he and I would always give each other podcast recommendations, and he came up to me one day and he's like, oh, you have to check out this podcast. Basically on this podcast, people can call in and leave a voicemail and leave an apology. And so I guess the conceit of the podcast is they would just play these apologies, and the human part of my brain thought that was pretty cool. The thriller writer part of my brain immediately thought, well, what if it wasn't a podcast? What if it was a confession? And so that was kind of the nugget of the idea for my book. And I don't outline, so I never know where my book's going, but ultimately, Tell Me What You Did follows the story of 30-year-old Poe Webb, who is the host of the nation's top true crime podcast called Tell Me What You Did. Basically on this podcast, people can call in and leave a voicemail and leave an apology. And so I guess the conceit of the podcast is they would just play these apologies, and the human part of my brain thought that was pretty cool. (02:51): And that's the conceit of the podcast. People call in and they can confess to crimes anonymously, and if Poe believes them, then they have a discussion about the criminal mind. And then one day she has this really creepy guest on who seems vaguely familiar to her, and his confession is that he murdered Poe's mother. Now, of course, Poe knows her mother was murdered. Poe actually witnessed her mother's murder when she was 13. But the thing that's sticking with her, she realizes this can't be the guy because Poe spent eight years of her life tracking down that murderer and killing him herself. So she's forced with the question, who is this guy? And if he is telling the truth, who did I kill? So that's kind of the setup for the book. Debbi (03:37): Wow, that's a very intriguing setup I have to say. I also, I just started it and the way you structure the beginning, it just pulls you right in. Carter (03:50): Oh, good. Debbi (03:51): It was so intriguing. It's basically like a podcast within a podcast. Carter (03:55): Yeah. There's interspersed throughout the chapters is kind of a cut up podcast transcript between these two individuals, and that ultimate conversation takes place at the end of the book, but you're seeing glimpses of that conversation throughout the story. Debbi (04:12): That sounds fantastic. So is this kind of a commentary on true crime podcasting? Do you have any feelings about why it is that people gravitate to true crime podcasts? Carter (04:29): I mean, I don't know if I would say it's so much of a commentary because when I kind of approach a book, I'm never thinking about what is my message here? I'm just thinking about, and again, because I'm not outlining,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is crime writer Priscilla Paton. Check out our discussion of her Twin Cities mysteries and the inspiration behind her dual detectives Eric Jansson and Deb Metzger. Download a copy of the interview in PDF. Debbi (00:51): Hi everyone. My guest today is originally from Maine, but now hails from the Minneapolis-St. Paul area, which invariably evokes images of Mary Tyler Moore tossing her hat in the air for me. If you're a person of a certain age, you'll understand. Anyway. Some of you may understand that reference. And in any case, she is a college professor from that area and she's now an author of the Twin Cities Mystery series. It's my pleasure to have with me today, Priscilla Paton. Hey, Priscilla, how you doing? Priscilla (01:29): Well, I'm doing really great. I'm actually in Arizona right now escaping some of those famous Midwest winters. Just for a very brief time though, I'll be getting back to the greater Twin Cities experience very quickly. I'm now retired from teaching, which gives me more time to make mischief and at least in my head, get into trouble. Debbi (01:56): I love it. Yes. Isn't it wonderful when we can write out these things on the page as opposed to actually committing crimes? Priscilla (02:05): Right. Debbi (02:07): Let's see. Tell us about your series. You have dual detectives, detective Eric Jansson and Deb Metzger. How was it that you came up with these two characters? Priscilla (02:20): Well, as you noted in your introduction, I've been transplanted to the Midwest. I'm been married to a Midwester for decades, and I'm both an insider and outsider there to some extent. Eric Jansson represents the Scandinavian Midwest as I've come to know it. He does have dark hair, but he still has blue eyes and the dark hair goes back to the Sámi people in northern Norway. So I got to play with his experience, his immersion in that Scandinavian-American culture, and I came up with him first. He was still a bit of a stoic. Scandinavians and New Englanders both are. So he was stoic. He wasn't that given to free and open expression, though he may have had a lot of renegade thoughts running through his head. He's kind of a rural bender, and I started writing, exploring what I could do with that character, and I found it was a little too quiet, a little too internalized. Eric Jansson represents the Scandinavian Midwest as I've come to know it. He does have dark hair, but he still has blue eyes and the dark hair goes back to the Sámi people in northern Norway. (03:30): Though he is physically active, he's athletic, and I put him aside for a minute and started writing about a woman who finds a PI type, who finds her cases by looking at the boards and coffee shops. As I was coming up with her, I was sitting in a coffee shop looking at a board, and I think that idea lasted as long as my cup of coffee and I went and then sort of like Athena bursting out of Zeus's head, Deb Metzger came to me. She ... as somebody who would rile Eric. Not necessarily be, not that they would necessarily hate each other, they don't by any means, but someone who would push him. In fact, in one of the novels that their chief joked something about, she says something about Eric being so quiet. He says, that's a good job for you. Draw him out. In a way she does it by annoying him. So it's sort of a vinegar and oil couple. But I tried to give them slightly different skill sets as usually happens when you have partners in real life and in fiction. So Eric is a little bit more the puzzle solver, a little bit more. (04:46): A couple of times, once he played, pretended he was a waiter. He is a little more on the edge of, I don't know if I want to say deceit, but he can be a little cagey here where Deb is more forthright and she is tall. She's about six feet in shoes or boots. She has kind of spiky blonde hair. She's lesbian. She can't hide easily.

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is educator and crime writer Michael Kaufman. Check out our discussion of his Jen Lu series, featuring a brain implant character named Chandler. What would Philip Marlowe make of that? :) The one question I forgot to ask! You can download the transcript here. Debbi (00:52): Hi everyone. Today I have a somewhat unusual guest in that he's better known for his work in gender studies and his nonfiction books than for his crime fiction. However, along with his work as a lecturer and advisor, he co-founded The White Ribbon Campaign, a worldwide effort by men to end violence against women. And somewhere along the line, he decided to write crime fiction, mysteries. So it's my pleasure to introduce my guest today, Michael Kaufman. Hi Michael. How you doing? Michael (01:27): Great to be here with you today. Debbi (01:29): Fantastic. Good to have you on. Great to have you on. Tell us about how you went from lecturing non-governmental organizations and other huge bodies of people and starting a worldwide movement to fiction writing and to your mystery series in particular. Michael (01:51): Yeah, I think there's a couple of answers to that. One is that it reflects what I read many decades ago. Now I was an academic, so I read all that stuff and over the years, just increasingly, I've just focused, most of my reading has been in my first love, which is fiction, and a good chunk of that has been crime fiction and mysteries combined with the classics and all of that. The other answer to that I've always written fiction. My first novel, not a crime novel, but a straight ahead novel was published by Penguin Random House back a couple decades ago now. And so I've always had that interest. But here's the final answer to that. A lot of the work I've done in the United Nations system around the world, different governments, companies, you talk to people during a break over lunch or whatever, and I'd be there to talk about gender equality and inclusion and violence against women and transforming our workplaces and better lives for men and parenting, all sorts of things like that. (03:02): You sit down with a couple of colleagues and you'd expect the discussion would be really sort of super highbrow and I'm reading the latest whatever philosopher. People say, yeah, I'm reading this great mystery. And one of the things that's true is that for all of us, no matter what we do, the world of fiction and in the case for many of us crime fiction, it's a combination of both a wonderful escape, a wonderful entertainment, but also a wonderful way to engage with the world. Good crime novels, the page-turning plot. And we all try to do that, but they also delve into characters. You think of some of your favorite crime writers over the years, you might say, yeah, I loved his or her plotting or their plotting, but you also love the characters they create. You love the worlds. And also in the case of these, some writers, you love the issues that they explore. So for me, this is what I decide to spend more of my energy on is my writing, my fiction writing in particular, and to use that as a vehicle, both to be blunt, to entertain and to give people something that'd be really fun to read and enjoyable and exciting, page-turning, but also to explore different social, cultural, environmental, and political issues. So there's a multifaceted answer to your straightforward question. Debbi (04:51): Well, I'm with you a hundred percent on that. I have really tried to do that in some of my books. Yes, I've tried. Anyway, let's see. Tell us about Jen Lu, Is it? Michael (05:05): Yeah. Debbi (05:06): So what was it that inspired you to write about her? Michael (05:10): So my first mystery series, I'll just weigh them here. My Jen Lu series, The Last Exit and The Last Resort. I wanted to probably just came out of, I was visiting a friend in Washington DC. I'm affiliated there with a research center,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is internationally bestselling crime writer Gregg Hurwitz. Check out our discussion of his Orphan X series and his other projects. Download a copy of the transcript here. Debbi: Hi everyone. It's my pleasure to have with me today. The New York Times number one internationally best-selling author of 24 thrillers, including the Orphan X Series. His novels have won numerous literary awards and been published in 33 languages. He's also written screenplays, television scripts, comics, and poetry. He is actively working against polarization in politics and culture, which I think is wonderful, by writing op-eds for the Wall Street Journal, The Guardian and other publications. My guest today is Gregg Hurwitz. Hi, Gregg. So happy to see you here. Gregg: Hi. Good to see you too. Thank you for having me on. Debbi: It's my pleasure, believe me. So, tell us about the Orphan X series and your tenth book in particular, Nemesis. What inspired you to write this series? Gregg: Well, I have a lot of friends who were in the special operations community, and over the years hanging out with them, I did a lot of research with them through the early books, sneaking onto demolition ranges with Navy SEALs to blow up cars, getting on all these different kinds of weapons, and I was always intrigued when they talked about black operations and how they were funded and how they worked. And I had this moment one time of just thinking how amazing would it be if there was a government program that took kids who were unwanted out of foster homes and took them off the radar completely and raised them up and trained them in silos separate from everybody else to be assassins who could do things that America can't do, who are essentially expendable. And so, that's what happens to my lead character when he's 12. I have a lot of friends who were in the special operations community, and over the years hanging out with them, I did a lot of research with them through the early books ... His name is Evan Smoak. He's taken out of a foster home in East Baltimore, and he's raised by a handler, who in fact becomes his father figure and actually loves this kid. His name is Jack Johns. And he tells Evan, "The hard part is not going to be making you a killer. The hard part will be keeping you human." And so Evan, basically, those are two directives on a collision course. And at some point, those things explode before the series even starts and Evan goes off on his own, flees the program, and basically becomes someone who helps people. He's like an assassin, a pro bono assassin. He helps people in desperate need who have nowhere else to turn who can call an encrypted phone number, 18552 nowhere, that you can call and you can see who answers. And he picks up the phone and says, "Do you need my help?" And if they need his help, he will go anywhere and do anything to help and protect them. Debbi: Wow. In some ways it reminds me of the old show, The Saint. He's a rich person. I don't know about Evan, but this person is rich, and he uses his wealth to help people out in all sorts of terrible situations, using all sorts of means. Gregg: There is an aspect like that of Evan. He has a bunch of money still from when he was in the program because he was given a lot of resources that were stashed in non-reporting countries. And so when he fled the program, he had all this hidden cash put away and he can use that, his resources and his highly unusual skill set to help people. Debbi: Wow. That's really a remarkable concept. I love it. As I understand it, the series has kind of an overarching plot to it in terms of an arc. Do you have a plan for how many books you're going to write, and do you have a series Bible? Gregg: I don't have a concrete plan, but Nemesis is the tenth. And as much as if you read the books and you're a series reader, you'll find all sorts of, I hope,

My guest for this episode of the Crime Cafe podcast is award-winning author of crime fiction and work in other genres, Melissa Yi. Check out our discussion about her plans for the Hope Sze medical thriller series, as well as her young adult, romance, and fantasy writing, along with her experiences with Kickstarter. And get to know a bit more about Cthulhu. You can download a copy of the transcript here. Debbi: Hi everyone, this is the Crime Cafe, your podcasting source of great crime, suspense, and thriller writing. I'm your host, Debbi Mack. My guest today is an author who follows the maxim, write what you know. She's an emergency doctor who writes a medical crime series. She also has been nominated for the Arthur Ellis and Derringer awards for her work. She's also written in a wide variety of genres, including young adult, romance, science fiction, and fantasy. It's my great pleasure to have with me today, Melissa Yi. Hi Melissa, how are you doing today? Melissa: I’m so good, Debbi. I just want to tell you that I did end up winning the Derringer Award. Debbi: Oh, that's awesome. Excellent. Way to go. Melissa: Thank you. One year nominated, one year win, you know, these things come and go, but when you win, you should take it. Debbi: Oh, yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. So I'm glad you mentioned that. Yeah, definitely mention it. So about your latest book, it's a young adult novel, isn't it? Melissa: Yeah, I'll see if I can get it to stay in frame. Okay, great. I love it. The Red Rock Killer. Debbi: Yes. Yes. Tell us about it. What inspired you to write this book? Melissa: Okay, well, did you know that the International Thriller Writers every year they have the Best First Sentence Contest? And I look, yes, and it's free to enter. I think you have to be a member though. And membership is free too. And so then they have all these bestsellers who will go through and then pick out their favorite sentence. And I looked at some of the sentences and I was like, okay, I'm going to write one, too. So I wrote, just trying to remember correctly. “The summer I turned 14, my mother told me I could do whatever I wanted. So I decided to find the Red Rock Serial Killer.” And after I sent it in, I was just like, what a strange sentence. So I wrote, just trying to remember correctly. “The summer I turned 14, my mother told me I could do whatever I wanted. So I decided to find the Red Rock Serial Killer.” And after I sent it in, I was just like, what a strange sentence. Like, really? Why would a 13 year old be looking for a serial killer? I mean, okay, if it's for a podcast or something, but in real life, like, it's just sort of odd. But I kept writing it a bit. And I was like, you know, obviously, she wants to do this. She has a mother like, I just kept writing. And then that sentence won the best first sentence from Allison Brennan, who's a New York Times bestseller. So I was like, awesome. Yeah, this is amazing. And then shortly after that, they had a contest where R.L. Stein and some other judges were going to pick the best middle grade crime novel that was written by a Black, Indigenous or person of color. And the prize was to come to Thriller Fest in New York and $1,000. So I was like, oh, I already have this book that I started, kind of out of nowhere. So I'm just going to keep going with it. And as I was writing, I was like, okay, her name is Edan, which is a name that means fire and it's spelled E-D-A-N. And her mother thought that this was a good name for somebody who was born in the desert, because when I looked it up, I didn't even know where the Red Rocks were. But my choices were, oh, you could basically be in Quebec, Canada, or you could be in Las Vegas. And I already have a series that’s set in Quebec. So I was like, we're going to Las Vegas. And that was fun for me, like, you know, it's a different country and because I'm Canadian and stuff. And she had two best friends.

Join crime writer Matt Cost and me, as we discuss how Matt manages to write and publish three books a year, in various series. You can download a copy of the transcript here. Debbi (00:00:52): Hi, everyone. Happy New Year. Today is the third of the month, so it's still a pretty new year. Anyhow, my guest for this episode is the former owner of a video store, a mystery bookstore, and a gym. I assume that he formerly owned these. He's also taught history and coached just about every sport imaginable, in his words. So I'm trying to imagine some sports he might not have coached. Coming to us from Brunswick, Maine, it is my pleasure to introduce my guest, Matt Cost. (00:01:31): Hi, Matt. How are you doing today? Matt (00:01:33): I'm fantastic, Debbi. Thank you much for having me on. Debbi (00:01:37): Oh, it's my pleasure. Believe me. I always enjoy talking to people about their books and stuff. (00:01:43): So I read your guest post. My goodness, your life sounds exhausting. It sounds like you're constantly on the go. And you write three books a year and publish them? Matt (00:01:55): Yes. You know, I got my first book published in 2020 after a short 29 years of waiting to get it published because I wrote it in 1991, originally the first draft. So when I got that door open, I decided to just go straight for it. And so that's kind of what I do. I write seven days a week, 365 days a year and do all the other pieces that I put with that guest post on your blog. Debbi (00:02:24): Wow. Well, I'm impressed. I got to say, three books a year is really good, in my opinion. That's a fantastic output. Matt (00:02:35): The variety of things you do is pretty cool, though. You've got mysteries and thrillers and young adults and screenplays. So that's all very cool. Debbi (00:02:44): It's very cool. It may not be remunerative, but it's cool. I'm enjoying it, though.I do enjoy writing screenplays very much. (00:02:54): How do you organize your workflow? Do you keep a calendar of, say, short-term deadlines, things like that? Matt (00:03:03): Not so much. Like I said, I write every day because without writing, nothing else matters. And so I fall into a rhythm where it takes me three or four months to write a book, but then it takes me three or four months to edit a book and three or four months to market a book and then three or four months promoting a book. And I'm generally doing all four of those things at the same time for four different books. (00:03:31): So that's kind of how my time is managed, you know, I break it out and what I need to get done. But I always start the day with writing because none of the rest of it matters if you don't write. Debbi (00:03:43): Exactly. Exactly right. Yeah. And how do you manage the paperwork in terms of like, or the filing system, as it were, if it's an online filing system of your research and stuff, because you do a lot of historical research, don't you? Matt (00:04:02): Yeah, I've done three standalone historical fiction pieces. And then I also have started a series that's a historical PI mystery series set in 1920s Brooklyn, New York. Bushwick, not too far from Queens. And, so to answer the question, I start with a document where I'm taking notes on the research that I'm doing. Much more heavy for historical, but some of the mysteries, you know, like when I get into genome editing and my book Mouse Trap, that took a lot of research on my part to understand the science behind that, because that's not my forte, so to speak. And so I take all of those notes and then I develop character sketches. (00:04:52): And I usually pick a picture that corresponds with what I think, maybe some famous actor, maybe just some schmo off of the internet that fits the image of who I'm looking for. And then I create an outline, which has over time become a pretty exact science for me. It is, you know, 40 chapters long and there's three things in each chapter and a date and a word count.

The Crime Cafe once again is pleased to bring another episode from the annals of radio! Yes, a radio program. With one of my favorite protagonists--Philip Marlowe! Bogie as Sam Spade! He was also great as Philip Marlowe! See what I mean? :) Also, check out these show notes from out of the past. :) Get it? Ha! And for your holiday viewing pleasure, one of my other favorite Philip Marlowes! Powers Boothe was awesome! I even did a tribute post when he died. So, I just had to include him in this, didn't I? :) Happy Noir New Year! :) Image by Brigitte Werner from Pixabay

This week’s Crime Cafe interview features journalist, attorney, podcaster, and true crime writer Kerrie Droban. We talk about psychopaths and writing about them. And other stuff. You can download a copy of the interview here. Debbi: Hi everyone. My guest today is an award-winning true crime author, podcaster, attorney, and television journalist. She writes about violent subcultures such as outlaw motorcycle gangs and about criminal pathology. She has appeared on numerous television documentaries and shows. Her books have been adapted to create the show Gangland Undercover and have been optioned for film. It's my pleasure to have Kerrie Droban with me today. Hey, Kerrie. How are you doing? Kerrie: Good. Thank you so much for having me. Debbi: I'm so glad you're here with us today. I was just checking your website and I was fascinated to see that you grew up in a "spy family". What was that like? Kerrie: I did. I know. Everybody asks me that. It was actually the perfect backdrop for true crime and really sort of set the ball in motion, unbeknownst to me until a lot of years later. I grew up in a family of secrets and undercover operations and I really didn't know anything about what my parents did until I was 17. And so it really just sort of set this whole career in motion of what does that do to somebody who lives in a duplicitous world where you're not really sure what's real, what isn't real? What are the stakes of keeping secrets and living in a family where you at one point, on one occasion you have to protect them while they're trying to protect you at the same time. You know, you really just don't really know who to trust and who your confidences are. It was an interesting world. I had two brothers, and my brothers and I, none of us really knew what the other knew. So it was one of those sort of compounded duplicity. You couldn't really ask, and so we sort of lived in a world of walking on eggshells, not really knowing who knew what and what was real. I grew up in a family of secrets and undercover operations and I really didn't know anything about what my parents did until I was 17. And so it really just sort of set this whole career in motion of what does that do to somebody who lives in a duplicitous world where you're not really sure what's real, what isn't real? Debbi: Oh my gosh. What a background to have as a person getting into crime writing of any sort. Kerrie: Yes, yes. It was perfect. Debbi: Yeah. And you had a Masters in writing, essentially from the writing seminar program at Johns Hopkins University first before you went to law school. Kerrie: Yes. I started out actually as a poet. I mean, that's a very circuitous route into true crime, but I wound up honing my skills as a poet and realized you really can't make a living as a poet, and unless I wanted to be a poetry professor, I really wasn't going to go very far with poetry. So that's what launched me into law school. Debbi: That's interesting, because I had a similar story except it was with history. I was a journalism major, and I thought about getting a Masters in History and decided I don't really plan on teaching history and ended up in law school. Kerrie: Oh, wow. Debbi: Funny how that happens. Kerrie: I know. It's sort of like your practical brain says, okay, how are you going to actually feed yourself, you know? Debbi: Exactly. Kerrie: Poverty was not fun. Debbi: Oh, God. I can name some classes that were totally not fun. I hated Estates and Trusts for one thing. Lord, Lord. I read your guest post and I thought it was really good. I wanted to recommend that everybody read it. What struck me about it was kind of the general sense that psychopaths can't really be fixed as such, in any sense that we would normally think of "fixing" a person. And in fact, we have to be better educated to avoid being in danger from them. That's kind of what seemed to be your point. I just wondered if you had any thoughts on how environ...

This week’s episode of the Crime Cafe features another story from The Adventures of Philip Marlowe. I'll gladly provide transcripts when I can afford it Enjoy my expensive hobby the show! :)

This week’s episode of the Crime Cafe podcast features my interview with lawyer and crime writer Dan Flanigan. Dan started off writing poetry. Check out the story of how his writing journey began. To download a copy of the transcript, just click here. Debbi: Hi, everyone. My guest today is a lawyer, author, playwright, and poet, who among other things, has taught legal history and jurisprudence and practiced civil rights law, as well as worked in financial services, so he has an impressive resume. His written work includes the Peter O'Keefe hardboiled crime series, which has earned praise and awards. He has also written stage plays and short stories. His novella Dewdrops was adapted from a play. It's my pleasure to have with me a lawyer and acclaimed author, Dan Flanigan. Hi, Dan. How are you doing today? Dan: Good enough, thank you. As I said, better than I deserve I'm doing. Debbi: Oh, dear me. Oh, I'd hate to think that. You always wanted to write a novel but ended up going to law school. How did that come about? Dan: Well, I'm not sure. Debbi: I know the feeling. Dan: I wanted to be a writer from the time I was a sophomore in high school, and found many ways to avoid or evade it. When I look back on it, I punished myself a whole lot all those years, and unfortunately punished my wife as well for selling out, not doing what I was supposed to do. But when I look back on it now, I wonder if I really had anything to write and you've lived your whole life. You have had a lot happen to you. Debbi: There's a lot to be said for waiting before you start writing, because then you have more content to draw from. Dan: In any event, I never thought it would, but it worked out well. Debbi: Absolutely. Yeah. What was it that started you? You started with poetry, correct? Dan: Yes. I had written in sort of spurts occasionally over a long period of time, between my sophomore year in high school and when I really started writing in earnest, and I had a period in the 1980s when I was on kind of a two-year break from practicing law and I wrote several plays. I wrote some poetry, a couple short stories, and I wrote a novel. One thing led to another. For example, I had an agent, I had a publisher for the novel. The publisher went bankrupt, and I had a stage reading of a play in New York. I thought I was going to be on top of the world for about five seconds. Where do you go eventually with any of that? So I decided I'm going to quit punishing myself and have nothing to do with writing. And about 20 years later, if you got something like that in you, I guess it stays in you. My wife died in 2011, and I thought I'd do a kind of tribute, I guess - she might not think so - to her with a book called Tenebrae, which is a book of poems, mostly focused on her last illness and death. That sort of broke the dam, if you will, and sort of led me back into writing in a very serious way, and I really kept to it since. Debbi: What inspired you to create Peter O'Keefe, this character? What kind of a person is he and what do you draw on to create stories about him? Dan: The way I ended up there is odd, but I had no thought of ever writing crime fiction or detective fiction or anything else. I had read some of it over the course of my life, but never was steeped in it in any way, and the first two books, one was poetry and one was a short story collection, Dewdrops that I guess - not to be pretentious - but you might call literary fiction. But then I wanted to write this novel, sort of a fall in reparation sort of thing. I thought I want to make this more interesting than just navel gazing, and so I said, you know, I'm going to try to put it in this sort of private detective format and see how it goes. And that was the book that I wrote, and got accepted by a publisher. I had no thought of ever writing crime fiction or detective fiction or anything else. I had read some of it over the course of my life,