Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Evangelical pastor and self-proclaimed Christian nationalist Doug Wilson has been preaching for decades that America needs to reclaim its Puritan past. But in 2025, he believes he’s “significantly” more influential. Does that mean America is closer to Wilson’s goal of theocracy? In this episode, nothing is off limits — even Ross’s own salvation. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The Twitch and YouTube star Hasan Piker understands what pushes people to commit acts of political violence. But does that understanding tip over into appreciation? In this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat and Piker debate why Piker’s post-liberal rhetoric attracts criticism from the right (and results in the occasional platform suspension) and why Americans’ changing attitudes on Israel feed his “revolutionary optimism.” Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

What is wrong with higher education in America? According to many on the right, a lot. This week, Ross Douthat talks to May Mailman, the lawyer behind President Trump’s battles with Harvard and Columbia, about the administration’s assault on the Ivy League and why “a glorification of victimhood” is changing the relationship between universities and the federal government. Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Ezra Klein argues that the left desperately needs a unifying project — for its own survival and for the sake of the country. In this episode of Ross Douthat’s “Interesting Times,” Ross and Ezra assess the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and debate whether the left has taken a dark turn. Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

In moments of political shock and horror, where can we turn? Ross was supposed to interview Charlie Kirk next month for the show and now offers his reflections on Kirk, his political movement and his assassination. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Is the United States still a worthy opponent for China? In this episode, Ross Douthat talks to Dan Wang, the author of “Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future,” about the alarming speed at which China is able to build and could blow America out of the water. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

While “Interesting Times” is on vacation, we’re sharing a conversation from “The Opinions” between Meher Ahmad, an editor for Times Opinion, and the Opinion writer Jessica Grose. They talk about the aesthetics of MAGA women — think Kristi Noem and Nancy Mace — and what they signal about femininity and power within the Republican Party. Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

This week, we’re sharing a great conversation Ross had on “The Ezra Klein Show” this past spring. Ezra asks Ross about his most recent book, “Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious.” But along the way, they debate not just how religion influences the Trump administration but also their own lives. Come for their seeking and stay for their thoughts on ayahuasca and mystical encounters. Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

For Democrats, President Trump’s victories have revealed the antidemocratic flaws at the core of our government. But could it be an opening for a constitutional revolution as the party searches for its next leader? This week, Ross explores what that revolution would entail with Osita Nwanevu, the author of the book, “The Right of the People: Democracy and the Case for a New American Founding.” 3:46 - What's wrong with our democracy? 9:07 - Our undemocratic founding 17:00 - The case for more U.S. states and a new constitution 23:52 - Where economic reform fits into this problem 29:26 - Does Trump represent the will of the people? 37:17 - What Trump’s presidency says about democracy 40:30 - The elusive Bernie Sanders moment 46:29 - The mystical element of our politics Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Would you use an algorithm to select your embryos? Enter Orchid, a company that promises parents the ability to protect their future children through genetic testing for embryos before pregnancy. The founder, Noor Siddiqui, and Ross debate the scientific, moral and ethical implications of designing a “healthy” child and what we lose in separating reproduction from sex. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Does America have a moral obligation to the world? The former Department of Government Efficiency staffer Jeremy Lewin, now deputy administrator for the United States Agency for International Development, explains how he is implementing President Trump’s foreign aid philosophy and what it means for humanitarian assistance going forward. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

U.F.O.s, fairies and abductions! This week, Ross talks to Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about how a deep dive into Catholic archives led her down a path to unravel the connections between religion, extraterrestrial encounters and government secrecy. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Julie K. Brown thinks Jeffrey Epstein didn’t act alone. On this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross talks to Brown, the investigative reporter whose work ultimately led to Epstein’s re-arrest, about what the government could release that it hasn’t and how the story is bigger than Epstein. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The conservative Christian podcaster Allie Beth Stuckey joins Ross on “Interesting Times” this week to explain why “toxic empathy” has a stranglehold on politics, whether evangelical Christians have a red line President Trump could cross and why her commentary has echoes of Phyllis Schlafly. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

How has the war in Gaza reverberated throughout American politics? Opinion columnist Bret Stephens and Ross Douthat debate the implications of the Israel-Gaza conflict on antisemitism, the morality of war, and why “Monday morning quarterbacking” is not productive when taking stock of military actions in the Middle East. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Happy Independence Day! We’ll be back next week with a new episode, but today we’re sharing the episode that started us on the path to “Interesting Times.” Ross Douthat talks to Reihan Salam, the president of the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. Together they wrote the book “Grand New Party: How Republicans Can Win the Working Class and Save the American Dream.” They review their George W. Bush-era prescriptions for the Republican Party to reclaim the working-class vote and the ways they were right (and wrong) about building a new Republican majority. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The billionaire Peter Thiel is unimpressed with our pace of innovation. In this episode, he critiques artificial intelligence, longevity science and space travel — and warns that our lack of progress could lead to catastrophic outcomes, including the emergence of the Antichrist. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Is the key to freedom a life without Amazon? This week, Ross talks to Lina Khan, former Chair of the Federal Trade Commission about how unchecked corporate power has limited choice in our day-to-day lives, and how her fight against Big Tech unites left and right. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Has immigration become the new litmus test for the Republican Party? In this episode, Ross talks to Matthew Continetti, the author of “The Right: The Hundred-Year War for American Conservatism,” about the party’s shifting coalition, the defining role of immigration and how today’s right echoes its past. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Does Hollywood have anything interesting left to say? In a world where franchises dominate and grown-up movies have fallen by the wayside, Ross talks to the showrunner Tony Gilroy, whose “Star Wars” spinoff “Andor” has, according to Ross, succeeded in being both original and smartly political in a Hollywood that is often neither. (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.