Pardon Me – Another Damn Impeachment Show

We had trouble mustering enthusiasm to wrap up our final episode of this second season of Pardon Me. Last week's roller coaster of a trial culminated in 43 senators choosing to acquit on a weak and deceptive defense -- despite a factual and painstaking accounting of how bad the breach was, how bad it might have been, and how Donald Trump incited it. We talk to a former CIA analyst about how bad it could have been and a TV critic on the power of the visual. We also bring you factoids with Chion Wolf and Colin's closing essay. GUESTS: James PoniewozikThe New York TimesAudience of One: Donald Trump, Television, and the Fracturing of AmericaDavid PriessHow To Get Rid of a President: History's Guide to Removing Unpopular, Unable, or Unfit Chief ExecutivesChion WolfAudacious with Chion Wolf Cat Pastor contributed to this show. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Donald Trump's legal team delivered their defense of the former president Friday. They followed a tightly argued and visceral presentation delivered by House managers that, some say, has made it easy for Republican senators to convict Trump. They likely won't. We wondered if our show, recorded in part on Thursday, would omit important events that occurred thereafter. Given that many Republican senators have already decided to acquit, why would the defense feel the need to address the 144 constitutional lawyers who debunked their First Amendment argument, the 150 constitutional lawyers who say the impeachment of Trump is constitutional, or the people of this country? We knew the ending before it even began. GUESTS: Dahlia LithwickSlateAmicusSascha ParukSports Betting DimeRobyn WalshThe Origins of Early Christian Literature: Contextualizing the New Testament within Greco-Roman Literary CultureChion WolfAudacious with Chion WolfBill Yousman Cat Pastor contributed to this show. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We took a chance that House Democrats were going to send the Article of Impeachment to the Senate this week. We were wrong. Instead, the House will transmit its Article of Impeachment charging former President Trump with "incitement of insurrection" to the Senate on Monday. Why should the House wait any longer when more than a dozen Republican senators are trying to dismiss the impeachment trial before it begins, based on the disputed claim that it's unconstitutional to try an ex-president. And House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is already walking back his prior claim that Trump incited the riot at the Capitol. We talk about proving "incitement" and the fashion legacy of Trump. We also bring you factoids with Chion Wolf and our first second-season AccuFrankie dispatch from reporter Frankie Graziano. GUESTS: Vanessa FriedmanThe New York TimesFrankie GrazianoCatherine J. RossPresidential Lies, The First Amendment, and DemocracyChion WolfAudacious with Chion Wolf Cat Pastor contributed to this show. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Previously on Pardon Me (Another Damn Impeachment Show?): House Democrats voted to impeach President Trump on two Articles of Impeachment: "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress." He was later acquitted promptly after Senate Republicans voted against calling witnesses or admitting new evidence. Now (less than 48 weeks later), on Season Two of Pardon Me: House Democrats, along with 10 Republicans, voted to impeach President Trump Wednesday on one Article of Impeachment: "incitement of insurrection." Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., promptly responded that there'll be no trial while he's Senate leader. The more things change, the more they stay the same. This hour, we talk about the constitutional gray zone of impeaching a president no longer in office, co-opting historically significant language, and a musical response to this political moment. And, we bring back Factoids with Chion Wolf. GUESTS: Joanne FreemanBackstoryThe Field of Blood: Violence in Congress and the Road to Civil WarMichael GerhardtLincoln's Mentors: The Education of a LeaderJill SobuleNostalgia KillsChion WolfAudacious with Chion Wolf Cat Pastor contributed to this show. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Four Department of Justice prosecutors working on the case of Roger Stone, a close friend of President Trump, withdrew from legal proceedings Tuesday after Attorney General William Barr overruled their sentencing recommendations. The president had complained about the long sentence. Barr denied that President Trump asked him to intervene and claimed he wouldn't be "bullied or influenced by anybody." He said Thursday that the president should stop tweeting about DOJ criminal cases. The president took to Twitter Friday to say he has the "legal right." Shortly therafter, the DOJ dropped their probe into former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe. Before you think this is more than theater, keep in mind that Barr also set up a process to vet information that Rudy Giuliani is gathering in Ukraine. And he tasked prosecutors to review the case of former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn. This is the last episode of Pardon Me. We think it's fitting to end the series on endings: the end of functioning institutions, the end of trust in government, the end of fact-based reality, the end of freedom for the press -- the end of democracy, itself. We remain hopeful. GUESTS: Frankie GrazianoDavid PlotzSlate Political GabfestJay RosenPhilip RuckerThe Washington PostA Very Stable Genius: Donald J. Trump's Testing of AmericaChion Wolf Thanks to Catie Talarski and Tim Rasmussen. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Note: This episode contains strong language. The Senate acquitted President Trump on both articles of the impeachment. Sen. Mitt Romney, R-Utah, was the only Republican who voted to convict the president on one charge, for "egregious" behavior he believed rose to the level of a "high crime and misdemeanor." President Trump responded with anger. He fumed at his perceived enemies at Thursday's National Prayer Breakfast. They include members of Congress, people on his staff, FBI agents, and even the state of New York. Senate Republicans hoping for a more subdued Trump were wrong. Others knew better. One remains hopeful. This week, Colin speaks with Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., and professor Ryan Goodman about how the fallout from the Senate acquittal of the president could affect the future of the election and the country. Plus: another edition of Factoids with Chion Wolf and impressions from a Connecticut man who attended the House impeachment hearings and the Senate impeachment trial. GUESTS: Ryan GoodmanJust SecurityKyle KnickerbockerChris MurphyChion Wolf Thanks to Eugene Amatruda. Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Senate has voted, 51 to 49, not to subpoena witnesses or documents in its impeachment trial of President Trump. Closing arguments are expected on Monday, and a verdict could come next Wednesday afternoon. This week, Colin and The Gist's Mike Pesca puzzle over the Republican strategy and Alan Dershowitz. He's the Trump attorney who argued that the president could engage in a quid pro quo that benefited him personally as long as he believes his reelection is in the public interest. Dershowitz believes the media misunderstood his argument. These are his words. And New York Times TV critic James Poniewozik gets into the impeachment as television. He's not entirely sure democracy will be renewed for another season. Plus: another edition of Factoids with Chion Wolf, and we sent intrepid reporter Frankie Graziano back out into the world to talk to more of the elusive "regular people." GUESTS: Carmen BaskaufWhere We LiveThe Carmen Baskauf ShowFrankie GrazianoDahlia LithwickSlateAmicusMike PescaSlateThe GistJames PoniewozikThe New York TimesAudience of One: Donald Trump, Television, and the Fracturing of AmericaChion Wolf Thanks to Eugene Amatruda. Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The New York Times reported Sunday night that former National Security Adviser John Bolton claims in the draft of his new book that President Trump told him in August that he wanted to withhold military aid from Ukraine unless Ukrainian officials helped with investigations into Democrats, including former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter. Bolton went on to implicate Attorney General William Barr, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney in the cover-up. Also in this bonus episode: Colin on why the way Secretary of State Mike Pompeo treated Mary Louise Kelly, host of NPR's All Things Considered, is a big problem. GUEST: Bill Curry Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Chief Justice John Roberts scolded House managers and the President's counsel early Wednesday for using language beneath the dignity of the world's "greatest deliberative body." This, after Senator Susan Collins complained about "unsettling comments" she felt went against Senate rules of decorum. Speaking of decorum, senators played with fidget spinners and did crossword puzzles while House managers made their case for impeachment. Enough of this pettifoggery! This week, Slate's Dahlia Lithwick says we're in a scary race to the bottom in our political conduct; law professor Lara Bazelon implores House managers to appeal directly to voters (senators in "total coordination" with the White House won't listen); and Washington Post correspondent Philip Bump brings us the "Impeachment Polka." Also this hour: the fourth edition of Factoids with Chion Wolf. Please note: The podcast version of this week's episode is fully 66 seconds longer than the radio version, and every one of those 66 seconds is filled with more of The Jay Sekulow Band (which, you'll find, is a real thing). You are welcome. GUESTS: Bruce AckermanLara BazelonSlatePolitico MagazineRectify: The Power of Restorative Justice After Wrongful ConvictionPhilip BumpThe Washington PostRebecca CastellaniRed Hook Star RevueDahlia LithwickSlateAmicusChion Wolf Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Slate's Stephen Metcalf thinks President Trump is a hostage to 1979. Why else would he overreact by killing Iranian Major General Qassem Soleimani for inciting protesters to storm the U.S. Embassy in Iraq? In President Trump's mind, it was the right response. How else could he avoid the fate of Jimmy Carter, a once popular president deemed weak after failing to bring home 52 hostages captured during the Iranian Revolution? Why else would the President threaten 52 cultural sites, one for each of those captured hostages? This is Colin's full interview with Stephen Metcalf, lightly edited for sound but not content. You can hear a shortened version in Episode 7 of Pardon Me (Another Damn Impeachment Show?). GUEST: Stephen MetcalfSlate Culture Gabfest Thanks to Catie Talarski and Chion Wolf. Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Benjamin Wittes and Susan Hennessey argue that President Trump has changed the function of the presidency from one of public service to one that serves his personal interests. The President was impeached for withholding aid to Ukraine in exchange for a political investigation into his political rival and obstructing the House investigation into his behavior. The President will likely be acquitted in the Senate. It may be up to voters in November to decide whether to ratify or reject Trump's vision of the presidency. Colin's interview with Benjamin Wittes and Susan Hennessey has been lightly edited for sound but not for time or content. You can hear a significantly shorter version in Episode 7 of Pardon Me (Another Damn Impeachment Show?). GUESTS: Benjamin WittesLawfareUnmaking the Presidency: Donald Trump's War on the World's Most Powerful OfficeSusan HennesseyLawfareUnmaking The Presidency: Donald Trump’s War on the World’s Most Powerful Office Thanks to Catie Talarski and Chion Wolf. Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

President Trump fretted this week that White House lawyer Pat Cippolone and personal lawyer Jay Sekulow lacked experience on television. So he added a few TV-ready lawyers to the mix, each with scripted roles to play. This week, Lawfare's Benjamin Wittes and Susan Hennessey argue that President Trump has changed the presidency from one of public service to one that serves his personal interests. Will we ratify his vision or reject it? It may be up to voters to decide. Also this hour: Slate's Stephen Metcalf thinks Trump is a hostage to 1979. Why else would he be obsessed with U.S. embassies and Jimmy Carter? And singer/songwriter Lara Herscovitch proves music is the antidote to our troubled times. GUESTS: Susan HennesseyLawfareUnmaking The Presidency: Donald Trump's War on the World's Most Powerful OfficeLara HerscovitchStephen MetcalfSlate Culture GabfestBenjamin WittesLawfareUnmaking The Presidency: Donald Trump’s War on the World’s Most Powerful Office Thanks to Catie Talarski and Chion Wolf. Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Law professor Bruce Ackerman argues that President Trump's order to kill Iranian Major General Qassem Soleimani is a far graver offense than his efforts to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden. Think about it: He's bragging about his decision to kill a high-ranking official of another country. Will Chief Justice John Roberts save us? And that's the positive view on our show this week. Sarah Kendzior studies autocratic governments. She thinks we'd be foolish to believe there are limits to what the Trump administration would do -- whether jailing witnesses and whistleblowers, threatening protesters, or using nuclear weapons. Also this hour: The third edition of Factoids with Chion Wolf and reporter Frankie Graziano talks to people at the Super Walmart Center in Manchester, Conn. GUESTS: Bruce AckermanFrankie GrazianoSarah KendziorGaslit NationChion Wolf Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Professor Michael Gerhardt argues that the impeachment process is legitimate, despite efforts by President Trump and his defenders to deny it. It is the president's conduct that is not normal. Gerhardt was one of four law professors summoned by the House Judiciary Committee in December, to share their legal expertise on whether President Trump's conduct met the legal threshold for impeachment. Three out of four of them believe it did. Also this hour: State Department witness George Kent's bow tie and Rep. Jim Jordan's jacket have their own Twitter accounts. Nancy Pelosi's dagger-like gold pin turned heads on the day she opened up House debate on the president's impeachment. We talk about the fashion semiotics of impeachment. We also bring you more interesting factoids and an essay about the convergence of entertainment and impeachment. GUESTS: Vanessa FriedmanThe New York TimesMichael GerhardtImpeachment: What Everyone Needs To KnowBill YousmanChion Wolf Thanks to Eugene Amatruda. Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Peter Sokolowski, lexicographer at Merriam-Webster, fears we're currently having a crisis of meaning in our cultural understanding and use of words. How do we understand phrases like "fake news?" Does it mean news that has no relationship to reality or is it how President Trump refers to truth-based news he doesn't like? What is an "alternative fact?" How can the phrase "drug deal" be used to refer to an illegal business transaction -- or in its use by former National Security Advisor John Bolton, an illegal government transaction -- and as a smear against the Navy's former top civilian leader, Richard Spencer, for trying to uphold professional standards? How can we communicate with one another if we don't agree on the basic meaning of words? This is our full interview with Sokolowski. It's about half again as long as the version that aired in Episode 4 of Pardon Me. It has been lightly edited for clarity but not for time or content. GUEST: Peter SokolowskiThe Whole World in a Book Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There's a good chance that President Trump knows that the stain of impeachment will be part of his legacy. And as damning details about the president's behavior trickle out, we're realizing how much we still don't know. This may explain why impeachment may be more popular than we realize. President Trump told CNN's Jake Tapper in 2016 that he had a "great relationship with God," and that he "doesn't do a lot of things that are bad." Yet, a basic Christian confession is that all of us have fallen short of the glory of God and are in need of God's forgiveness." How do Christians reconcile President Trump's lack of personal morality with their wide support for his presidency? We also bring you interesting factoids about impeachment and a deep dive into the words that are emerging from the process. GUESTS: David A. GrahamThe AtlanticJennifer A. HerdtPeter SokolowskiChion Wolf Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There's actually some question whether President Trump has officially been impeached, it turns out. In any case, on Wednesday, December 18, the U.S. House of Representatives passed two Articles of Impeachment charging the president with abuse of power and obstruction of congress. On our third full episode, we talk to the founder of Politico about the huge difference a tiny bit of self-control would make to the Trump presidency and a Yale historian about what those crazy founders were thinking when they put impeachment in the Constitution in the first place. Plus: Our first AccuFrankie report from the Target parking lot in New Britain, Conn., and a song performed live in our studios by Nekita Waller, "Big Al" Anderson, Jim Chapdelaine, and The Shinolas. GUESTS: John BerryJoanne FreemanBackStoryRoss GarberFrankie GrazianoJohn HarrisPolitico Thanks to Eugene Amatruda and Chion Wolf. Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On Friday, December 13, the House Committee on the Judiciary voted 23 to 17 to send two Articles of Impeachment to the full House of Representatives for consideration. On Episode 2 of Pardon Me, Yale Law School's Emily Bazelon joins us to look at the legal ins and outs of the articles, the House vote, and a future Senate trial; The New Yorker's Adam Gopnik tells us to "Stop Saying That Impeachment Is Political"; and our friends from Sea Tea Improv in Hartford stop by to perform a holiday-themed, Scrooge/Trump mashup sketch. GUESTS: Emily BazelonThe New York Times MagazineSlate's Political GabfestCharged: The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass IncarcerationAdam GopnikThe New YorkerA Thousand Small Sanities: The Moral Adventure of LiberalismKevin MacDermottJulia PistellDan RussellBryan Thurston Thanks to Greg Ludovici, Catie Talarski, and Chion Wolf. Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Adam Gopnik is a staff writer at The New Yorker and the author of A Thousand Small Sanities: The Moral Adventure of Liberalism. We talked to Gopnik late last week about his New Yorker piece "Stop Saying That Impeachment Is Political." This interview will run, likely in a form very similar to this one, in this week's Episode 2 of Pardon Me. But we're making it available to you now because... well, because why not, really. GUEST: Adam GopnikThe New YorkerA Thousand Small Sanities: The Moral Adventure of Liberalism Chion Wolf contributed to this show. Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dave Eggers is the author of six books for young readers, including The Wild Things; three works of nonfiction, including Zeitoun; twelve novels, including What Is the What, A Hologram for the King, and The Circle; and the memoir A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius, which was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction. He has written three screenplays, including Where the Wild Things Are with Spike Jonze. And he is the founder of McSweeney’s. Eggers’s latest is The Captain and the Glory: An Entertainment, about which John Hodgman wrote, “It is difficult these days to portray the sheer, numbing, terrifying, unprecedented strangeness of what is happening in contemporary maritime life. One wants to say it mirrors politics?” This uncut interview is roughly twice as long as the version that ran in our debut episode. It has been lightly edited for clarity but not for time or content. GUEST: Dave EggersThe Captain and the Glory: An Entertainment Email us your questions at pardonme@ctpublic.org. Pardon Me is a production of The Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. Support the show: https://www.wnpr.org/donate See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.