Stay Tuned with Preet

Historian Timothy Snyder, author of On Tyranny and On Freedom, joins Preet Bharara to break down Viktor Orbán's election loss in Hungary and what it means for Trump, MAGA, and the future of American democracy. Snyder also explains what Hungarian politician Péter Magyar's victory reveals about beating authoritarians at the ballot box, why "democracy" alone doesn't rally voters, and why his most urgent lesson from On Tyranny — do not obey in advance — has never been more relevant. Then, Preet answers listener questions. He explains whether the president has to comply with the law requiring him to preserve official records and whether it’s now legal to distill liquor at home. In the bonus for Insiders, Preet breaks down his experience working to reform one of New York City’s most notorious prisons: Rikers Island. Join the Insider community for access to bonus content from Stay Tuned and weekly episodes of the Insider podcast hosted by Preet and Joyce Vance. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail.Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Can the Department of Justice declare a law unconstitutional? On this week’s Insider podcast, former Westchester County, New York, District Attorney Mimi Rocah joins Joyce Vance to discuss the Office of Legal Counsel opinion declaring the Presidential Records Act (PRA) unconstitutional. This segment is available for free to listeners of Stay Tuned. To hear the full episode, become a member at cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. You’ll also get access to other exclusive content. Topics covered in the full episode: – The Manhattan DA’s criminal investigation into sexual misconduct allegations against Representative Eric Swalwell prompting him to resign; – Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche’s comments furthering President Trump’s election fraud claims; and – Former AG Pam Bondi’s argument that she’s not required to comply with a congressional subpoena for testimony about her handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files release since she no longer holds the role. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Supervising Producer: Jake Kaplan; Associate Producer: Claudia Hernández; Senior Audio Producer: Matthew Billy; CAFE Team: Celine Rohr, Nat Weiner, Jennifer Indig, and Liana Greenway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

CNN’s chief national security analyst Jim Sciutto joins Preet to discuss the Iran war, Trump’s psychology of force, and the return of great power conflict. Then, Preet answers listener questions. He explains the relevance of birthright citizenship to Native American tribes, the federal War Crimes Act, and the special treatment congresspeople are receiving at airports. In the bonus for Insiders, Preet and Sciutto discuss the controversy surrounding press coverage at the Defense Department. Join the Insider community for access to bonus content from Stay Tuned and weekly episodes of the Insider podcast hosted by Preet and Joyce Vance. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this week’s Insider podcast, Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance are joined by Dahlia Lithwick, senior editor at Slate and host of the Amicus podcast. In a free excerpt from the episode, they break down the Supreme Court’s recent 8–1 decision in favor of a licensed therapist who challenged a Colorado law banning conversion therapy for minors. In the full episode, Preet, Joyce, and Dahlia make sense of: – President Trump’s firing of Attorney General Pam Bondi; and – Supreme Court oral arguments in a case challenging President Trump’s effort to restrict birthright citizenship. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Not an Insider? Now more than ever, it’s critical to stay tuned. To join a community of reasoned voices in unreasonable times, become an Insider today. You’ll get access to full episodes of the podcast and other exclusive content. Head to cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Supervising Producer: Jake Kaplan; Associate Producer: Claudia Hernández; Senior Audio Producer: Matthew Billy; CAFE Team: Celine Rohr, Nat Weiner, Jennifer Indig, and Liana Greenway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Author Michael Pollan joins Preet to discuss his new book, A World Appears: A Journey Into Consciousness, the “problem” of studying consciousness, psychedelics in therapy, and whether plants are sentient. They also break down whether artificial intelligence can be conscious and why we shouldn’t want it to be. Then, Preet answers listener questions on possible insider trading ahead of Trump’s Iran announcements. Also, a surprising influence on Brandi Carlile’s songwriting. Spoiler Alert: it’s Thomas Jefferson. In the bonus for Insiders, Preet and Pollan discuss why you can’t have life without death. Plus, whether it’s possible to control our own thoughts. Join the Insider community for access to bonus content from Stay Tuned and weekly episodes of the Insider podcast hosted by Preet and Joyce Vance. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did President Trump take classified documents to Mar-a-Lago in part to benefit his business interests? According to recent reports, Special Counsel prosecutors explored possible business-interest motives, a theory that was not part of Jack Smith’s eventual indictment. In an excerpt from this week’s Insider episode, Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance break down the news and the significance of motive in criminal prosecutions. In the full episode, Preet and Joyce discuss: – The $1.2 million settlement in Michael Flynn’s malicious prosecution lawsuit against the Department of Justice; and – Attorney General Pam Bondi’s proposed rule deferring state bar ethics investigations into federal prosecutors to the Department’s own ethics committee. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Not an Insider? Now more than ever, it’s critical to stay tuned. To join a community of reasoned voices in unreasonable times, become an Insider today. You’ll get access to full episodes of the podcast and other exclusive content. Head to cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Supervising Producer: Jake Kaplan; Associate Producer: Claudia Hernández; Senior Audio Producer: Matthew Billy; CAFE Team: Celine Rohr, Nat Weiner, Jennifer Indig, and Liana Greenway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are other countries “out-America-ing” us? Senator Cory Booker joins Preet to discuss his new book, Stand, immigration, and how Trump policies conflict with core American values and strengths. In the bonus for Insiders, Preet answers listener questions. He explains whether the FCC can legally strip TV broadcasters of their licenses for coverage it doesn’t like. Plus, Trump’s Florsheim shoe pressure campaign. Join the Insider community for access to bonus content from Stay Tuned and weekly episodes of the Insider podcast hosted by Preet and Joyce Vance. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do ballots need to be mailed and received by Election Day? In an excerpt from this week’s Insider episode, constitutional law professor and Supreme Court expert Steve Vladeck joins Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance to break down oral arguments in Watson v. RNC, an election case which has the potential to reshape the way ballots are counted. In the full episode, Preet, Joyce, and Steve preview next week’s oral arguments in the birthright citizenship case. Plus, Preet and Joyce pay tribute to former FBI Director and special counsel Robert Mueller, who passed last week at age 81. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Not an Insider? Now more than ever, it’s critical to stay tuned. To join a community of reasoned voices in unreasonable times, become an Insider today. You’ll get access to full episodes of the podcast and other exclusive content. Head to cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Supervising Producer: Jake Kaplan; Associate Producer: Claudia Hernández; Senior Audio Producer: Matthew Billy; CAFE Team: Celine Rohr, Nat Weiner, Jennifer Indig, and Liana Greenway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens to Republicans who dare to disagree with Trump? This week on Stay Tuned, New York Times opinion columnist and co-host of the Advisory Opinions podcast David French joins Preet to discuss how the rise of Donald Trump reshaped the Republican Party and where French stands now on conservative politics. Plus, they dive into the war in Iran and whether the US’s military operations in the country are legal. Then, Preet answers your questions on whether federal prosecutors have to follow the professional ethics rules of the states where they practice, and the historical origins of the autopen. In the bonus for Insiders, French responds to criticism that he’s too…polite. Join the Insider community for access to bonus content from Stay Tuned and weekly episodes of the Insider podcast hosted by Preet and Joyce Vance. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why did a federal judge quash subpoenas in the criminal probe of Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell? In an excerpt from this week’s Insider episode, Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance break down Judge Boasberg’s decision. In the full episode, Preet and Joyce discuss President Trump’s efforts to reshape elections and voting through the SAVE Act. Plus, a proposal from Trump’s orbit urging him to declare a national emergency to federalize elections. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Not an Insider? Now more than ever, it’s critical to stay tuned. To join a community of reasoned voices in unreasonable times, become an Insider today. You’ll get access to full episodes of the podcast and other exclusive content. Head to cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Supervising Producer: Jake Kaplan; Associate Producer: Claudia Hernández; Senior Audio Producer: Matthew Billy; CAFE Team: Celine Rohr, Nat Weiner, Jennifer Indig, and Liana Greenway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Is the market due for a reckoning? This week on Stay Tuned, former Goldman Sachs Chairman and CEO Lloyd Blankfein joins Preet for a far-reaching conversation on the economic impacts of the war in Iran, lessons from the 2008 financial crisis, the current state of the markets (and why he thinks we’re due for another reckoning), and why he thinks CEOs should stay out of most political debates. Plus, they dive into Blankfein’s new memoir, Streetwise, in which he traces his unlikely journey to the top job at one of the most powerful financial institutions in the world. Then, Preet answers your questions about CBS pulling Senate candidate James Talarico from The Late Show with Stephen Colbert and the latest on Bruce Springsteen’s tour. In the bonus for Insiders, Lloyd and Preet discuss how AI is transforming the workforce and why resisting technological progress is folly. Join the Insider community to stay informed without the hysteria, fear-mongering, or rage-baiting. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why did the Justice Department move forward with defending President Trump’s executive orders targeting law firms after abandoning its appeal just one day earlier? In an excerpt from this week’s Insider episode, Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance break down the Justice Department’s reversal. In the full episode, Preet and Joyce discuss: – President Trump’s firing of DHS Secretary Kristi Noem; – The Justice Department’s reversal of a Biden-era policy restricting “no-knock” warrants; and – The Justice Department’s reported failure to build a criminal case against President Biden over his use of an autopen to sign official documents. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Not an Insider? Now more than ever, it’s critical to stay tuned. To join a community of reasoned voices in unreasonable times, become an Insider today. You’ll get access to full episodes of the podcast and other exclusive content. Head to cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Supervising Producer: Jake Kaplan; Associate Producer: Claudia Hernández; Senior Audio Producer: Matthew Billy; CAFE Team: Celine Rohr, Nat Weiner, Jennifer Indig, and Liana Greenway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The U.S. is at war with Iran. This week, Preet is joined by The Washington Post foreign affairs columnist David Ignatius. He breaks down the US-Israeli military operations in Iran, the killing of Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and what comes next. Then, Preet is joined by The Atlantic staff writer Mark Leibovich to discuss his recent article, “The Democrats Aren’t Built for This” and the Tuesday primary results. In the bonus for Insiders, Leibovich shares his thoughts on how the Iran war could shape U.S. politics. Plus, whether Democrats will flip the Senate in the upcoming midterm elections. Join the CAFE Insider community to stay informed without hysteria, fear-mongering, or rage-baiting. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What did House Republicans hope to gain by calling Hillary Clinton to testify about Jeffrey Epstein? In an excerpt from this week’s Insider episode, Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance break down Bill’s and Hillary Clinton’s contentious depositions. In the full episode, Preet and Joyce discuss: – New reporting that DOJ excluded allegations that President Trump sexually abused a minor from its released Epstein files; – Judge Aileen Cannon’s decision to permanently block the release of special counsel Jack Smith’s report on his investigation into President Trump’s alleged mishandling of classified documents; and – FBI Director Kash Patel’s firings of ten FBI employees over their involvement in the Trump classified documents investigation. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Not an Insider? Now more than ever, it’s critical to stay tuned. To join a community of reasoned voices in unreasonable times, become an Insider today. You’ll get access to full episodes of the podcast and other exclusive content. Head to cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Supervising Producer: Jake Kaplan; Associate Producer: Claudia Hernández; Senior Audio Producer: Matthew Billy; CAFE Team: Celine Rohr, Nat Weiner, Jennifer Indig, and Liana Greenway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

President Trump just delivered the longest State of the Union address in recorded history. But did he say anything of substance? Preet is joined by Yale history professor Joanne Freeman, Vox editorial director Astead Herndon, and former Deputy National Security Adviser and co-host of The Long Game podcast Jon Finer to discuss the speech, its political significance, and where Trump—and Democrats—go from here. In the bonus for Insiders, the panel debates whether Trump himself believes his own BS. Join the CAFE Insider community to stay informed without hysteria, fear-mongering, or rage-baiting. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In a new episode of the Insider podcast, Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance are joined by former Solicitor General of the United States Don Verrilli to break down the Supreme Court’s decision striking down President Trump’s use of the International Emergency Economic Powers Act to impose tariffs. In an excerpt from the conversation, they discuss Justice Neil Gorsuch’s concurring opinion. In the full episode, Preet, Joyce, and Don dive deeper into the tariffs ruling, including the separation-of-powers principles implicated in this case and the logistical chaos that may follow as companies seek reimbursements for tariffs paid. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Not an Insider? Join a community of reasoned voices in unreasonable times. Insiders get access to full episodes of the Insider podcast and other exclusive content. Head to cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Supervising Producer: Jake Kaplan; Associate Producer: Claudia Hernández; Senior Audio Producer: Matthew Billy; CAFE Team: Celine Rohr, Nat Weiner, Jennifer Indig, and Liana Greenway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice joins Preet Bharara for a candid conversation about leadership, decision-making, and what most concerns her about the Trump administration. Rice warns of “the abrogation of the rule of law” and a drift toward “a lawless society,” pointing to the speed with which the administration has pursued its agenda and the limited resistance it has faced. Drawing on her experience serving three presidents, Rice offers an inside look at how White House decisions are made—and why strong leaders welcome dissent. She and Preet also discuss immigration reform, including what a workable framework would require and why the real challenge is political will. In the bonus for Insiders, Ambassador Rice turns the tables on Preet, asking how to respond to what she calls the “rapid evaporation” of democratic guardrails. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail.Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In an excerpt from this week’s Insider podcast episode, Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance discuss Attorney General Pam Bondi’s testimony before the House Judiciary Committee about DOJ’s handling of the Epstein files. In the full episode, Preet and Joyce discuss: – The Justice Department’s failure to secure an indictment of a group of Democratic members of Congress over a video reminding military service members of their duty to refuse illegal orders; – The Trump administration’s announcement that it is ending stepped-up ICE operations in Minnesota; and – The unsealing of an affidavit used to justify the FBI’s search of an election office in Fulton County, Georgia, as part of the Trump administration’s investigation into debunked allegations of election fraud in the county. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Not an Insider? Join a community of reasoned voices in unreasonable times. Insiders get access to full episodes of the Insider podcast and other exclusive content. Head to cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does it mean that we're living in the era of "peak presidential power"—and did Minneapolis finally reveal its limits? This week, presidential historian, Rice University professor, and CNN contributor Douglas Brinkley joins Preet Bharara to discuss the long arc of executive authority from Washington to Trump, why Minneapolis may have been Trump's "Rubicon," and why Trump is, in Brinkley's words, "the only truly unthoughtful president we've had." Plus, Brinkley—who sits on the board of the Bruce Springsteen Archives—talks Springsteen's new protest song 'Streets of Minneapolis,' and what it means to see the Boss in resistance mode. Then, Preet speaks about the news that DOJ has failed to indict six Democratic members of Congress over a video reminding military service members to refuse illegal orders, and he answers your questions about why assistant U.S. attorneys are quitting in droves, and whether the president has the right to sue other people. In the bonus for Insiders, Doug and Preet discuss the "pendulum swing" in American politics—how Trump pieced together his unlikely coalition, and why the next Democrat president will have to pass what Brinkley calls an "authenticity test." Join the CAFE Insider community to stay informed without hysteria, fear-mongering, or rage-baiting. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How might justice, public safety, and the rule of law suffer as the Justice Department struggles to retain and recruit prosecutors? In an excerpt from this week’s Insider episode, Preet Bharara and Joyce Vance discuss the mounting strain on DOJ. In the full episode, Preet and Joyce discuss: – Ghislaine Maxwell’s request that President Trump grant her clemency in exchange for testimony that could clear him and Bill Clinton from any wrongdoing related to Jeffrey Epstein’s trafficking network; – Recent judicial opinions on ICE actions in Minnesota and Oregon; and – The Supreme Court’s ruling allowing California’s new congressional map to stand. CAFE Insiders click HERE to listen to the full analysis. Not an Insider? Now more than ever, it’s critical to stay tuned. To join a community of reasoned voices in unreasonable times, become an Insider today. You’ll get access to full episodes of the podcast and other exclusive content. Head to cafe.com/insider or staytuned.substack.com/subscribe. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. Executive Producer: Tamara Sepper; Supervising Producer: Jake Kaplan; Associate Producer: Claudia Hernández; Senior Audio Producer: Matthew Billy; CAFE Team: Celine Rohr, Nat Weiner, Jennifer Indig, and Liana Greenway. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices