The Apologetics Podcast

Welcome to an episode of The Apologetics Podcast that's so good it's almost criminal! Cold-case detective J. Warner Wallace joins your intrepid cohosts to teach them how true crime points to the truth of God. Along the way, Detective Wallace makes the case that everything in all creation is evidence and every human being is a born killer. He also reveals his recent proclivities for the music of Old Dominion and Zach Williams. Wallace's latest book The Truth in True Crime: What Investigating Death Teaches Us About the Meaning of Life takes a look at fifteen rules for life that he learned from homicide investigations. This episode's edition of Raiders of Church History involves three cats and an ancient sponge. The dynamic duo discusses an almost-criminal habit of professor C.S. Lewis that involved lifting a cat by its tail, and they conclude that there should be a C.S. Lewis fan band called "Clïvë's Cäts." HOSTS AND GUEST J. Warner Wallace is a Dateline-featured homicide detective, popular national speaker, and best-selling author. Relying on over two decades of investigative experience, Wallace provides the tools needed to investigate the claims of Christianity and make a convincing case for the truth of the Christian worldview. Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Family Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, In Church as It Is in Heaven, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is lead pastor of Substance Church in Ashland, Ohio. Garrick was born in the frozen lands of Wisconsin but spent most of his life as a Texan. Before coming to Substance, he served as the director of adult discipleship and home groups at The Village Church. He and his wife Bethany have three children. RESOURCES Cold-Case Christianity Casemakers Academy The Thin Blue Life CLOSING CREDITS Theme music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

What is a "Christian nationalist" and how do you know if you might be one? That's the question Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones ask distinguished American historian Thomas Kidd. Along the way, Garrick and Timothy discover that the answer isn't nearly as scary as some people seem to think. Garrick does, however, suggest a rather scary image that involves Jesus, a bald eagle, and an American flag.* In the end, Dr. Kidd refuses to be distracted by Garrick’s bizarre suggestion and instead takes your intrepid cohosts to a place where few people seem to go: a calm and rational discussion of Christian nationalism and proper patriotism. Garrick and Timothy also manage to unearth a long-lost truth about Dr. Kidd's past predilections for Led Zeppelin. During the Raiders of Church History segment, a deluge of dad jokes threatens to drown the dynamic duo, as a dead hand from Hungary slaps a live duck from Great Britain. Also, "Cüddïë Dück" would be a great name for an English emo punk band. * ... which Garrick and Timothy would probably turn into a really hilarious image using an AI image generator and send to subscribers if Timothy wasn't so Reformed that he rejects the Seventh Ecumenical Council and steadfastly refuses to acknowledge images of Jesus. ABOUT YOUR HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, In Church as It Is in Heaven, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is lead pastor of Substance Church in Ashland, Ohio. Garrick was born in the frozen lands of Wisconsin but spent most of his life as a Texan. Before coming to Substance, he served as the director of adult discipleship and home groups at The Village Church. He and his wife Bethany have three children. LINKS TO CLICK The Jefferson Bible (article by Erin Blakemore, 2019) Thomas Jefferson: A Biography of Spirit and Flesh (book by Thomas Kidd, 2022) Who Is an Evangelical?: The History of a Movement in Crisis (book by Thomas Kidd, 2019) St. Cuthbert's Ducks (article by Glen Cousquer, 2022) St. Stephens Holy Right (article by Relics, 2023) In the Light (song by Led Zeppelin, 1990 Remaster) Christian History, Volume 2 (book by Thomas Kidd, 2024) The Apologetics Podcast Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Theme music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Heaven is multiethnic. Are you ready for that? The Bible tells us that the congregation gathered around God's heavenly throne will be “a vast multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language,” all singing the praises of the Lamb. God's intention has always been to delight for all eternity in a redeemed community of ethnic diversity. But this diverse community shouldn't have to wait until eternity to begin. It can start here and now. Dr. Jamaal Williams, pastor of Sojourn Church Midtown in Louisville, has coauthored a book entitled In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture to show how Christians can pursue this vision. This work from Jamaal and one of your intrepid cohosts gives biblical warrant for multiethnic, multisocioeconomic, and multigenerational churches and shows how such communities provide a unique apologetic for the gospel—and that’s how this book intersects with The Apologetics Podcast. In this episode’s installment of Raiders of Church History, the dynamic duo throws a pig into combat against shards from Peter’s skeleton. Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones quickly recognize that the pig brings victory either way. If the pig survives the apostle’s bones, the pig is the victor and, if the pig dies, everyone gets bacon. Also, Garrick and Timothy learn about “tantony pigs,” and there should definitely be a British folk punk band named “Täntöny Pïg.” ABOUT YOUR HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, In Church as It Is in Heaven, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is lead pastor of Substance Church in Ashland, Ohio. Garrick was born in the frozen lands of Wisconsin but spent most of his life as a Texan. Before coming to Substance, he served as the director of adult discipleship and home groups at The Village Church. He and his wife Bethany have three children. LINKS TO CLICK Eruption (song by Van Halen, 1978) In Church as It Is in Heaven (book by Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones, 2023) Redemptive Kingdom Diversity (book by Jarvis Williams, 2021) Your House (song by Sojourn Music, 2021) The Apologetics Podcast Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Theme music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Kilroy Was Here! During World War 2, “Kilroy Was Here” described a type of graffiti that American soldiers chalked on walls wherever they went. In 1983, the phrase gained a completely different meaning. That’s when the band Styx developed a rock opera and concept album—complete with a ten-minute dystopian science-fiction film—in response to accusations that Styx had encoded Satanic messages in their song “Snowblind.” These accusations led to legislation in the Arkansas State Senate requiring rock records that included backward messages to be labeled with warnings. Styx keyboardist and vocalist Dennis DeYoung envisioned a future in which rock music was outlawed and robots served fried chicken to former rock stars. In the rock opera that resulted from DeYoung’s vision, Kilroy became the surname of Robert Orin Charles Kilroy (whose initials, completely coincidentally, spell “ROCK”), a rock musician imprisoned in the not-so-distant future by the Majority for Musical Morality. Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones explore the history of Styx and consider how Christians should—and shouldn’t!—engage with artistic artifacts and cultural expressions. Along the way, your intrepid cohosts talk about backward masking and Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority, as well as a plexiglass toilet (surprisingly, "Plëxïgläss Töïlët" has never been the name of any rock band as far as we know). In a special segment of “Behind the Covers,” the dynamic duo considers a song that’s been covered far too many times and implores every musician listening to the program never to cover Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah” again. ABOUT YOUR HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, In Church as It Is in Heaven, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is lead pastor of Substance Church in Ashland, Ohio. Garrick was born in the frozen lands of Wisconsin but spent most of his life as a Texan. Before coming to Substance, he served as the director of adult discipleship and home groups at The Village Church. He and his wife Bethany have three children. Garrick has been a PhD student for ten years but thinks it’s about time to quit. LINKS TO CLICK Mr. Roboto (song by Sytx, 1983) Hallelujah (song by Leonard Cohen, 1984) Hallelujah (song performed by Kurt Nilsen, 2006) Hallelujah (song performed by Small Town Titans, 2019) Hallelujah (song performed by Pentatonix, 2016) Hallelujah (song performed by Tori Kelly, 2016) Hallelujah (song performed by Styx, 2017) Hallelujah (song performed by K.D. Lang, 2005) Hallelujah (song performed by Willie Nelson, 2006) Hallelujah (song performed by Neil Diamond, 2010) Hallelujah (song performed by Eric Church, 2016) Hallelujah (song performed by Tenille Townes, 2020) Boat on the River (song by Styx, 1979) Show Me The Way (song by Styx, 1990) Father O.S.A (song by Styx, 1973) Witch Wolf (song by Styx, 1973) Hallelujah Chorus (song performed by Styx, 1973) Lady (song by Styx, 1973) Grand Illusion (song by Styx, 1977) Snowblind (song by Styx, 1981) Serious Issues Underlie a New Album from Styx (article by Stephen Holden,1983) Kilroy Was Here (short film by Styx, 1983) Every Square Inch (book by Bruce Ashford, 2015) Biblical Critical Theory (book by Christopher Watkin, 2022) Paradise City (song by Guns N' Roses, 1987) Hunchback of Notre Dame (musical by Dennis DeYoung, 1996) The Apologetics Podcast Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Theme music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law....

This is the second half of an exciting two-part episode of The Apologetics Podcast. Garrick and Timothy are still adventuring through time with a second-century apologist named Aristides, exploring three key points in his apologetic that addressed those that were skeptical of Christianity in his day. Aristides understood that every Christian is an apologist—and that's the truth that your intrepid cohosts are doing their best to recover. However, the dynamic duo doesn't stay put for long as they return to their DeLorean and launch into a perilous exploration of modern civic liturgies. Soon, Garrick and Timothy find themselves face to face with an intergalactic bounty hunter immersed in an age-old honor culture. Then, they confront the deeply theological commitments of Christianity that have persisted through the centuries, calling the church of today to faithful public practice of truth. The adventure ends with a look at the stars as they wistfully long for another season of The Mandalorian. And also, why didn't the members of any 1980s power metal band think of naming themselves "Böünty Hüntër"? ABOUT YOUR HOSTS FOR "EVERY CHRISTIAN IS AN APOLOGIST NOW" Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, In Church as It Is in Heaven, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK "Brothers and Sisters, We Are All Apologists Now" (Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Faculty Address, 2023) The Mandolorian (Lucasfilm Ltd., 2019) This is The Way (Auralnauts, 2023) Patreon Support The Apologetics Podcast Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

In this thrilling two-part episode of The Apologetics Podcast, Garrick and Timothy go back to the future. Or, perhaps more precisely, they go back to the second century for the sake of the future. In the book The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self, theologian Carl Trueman points out that the church's challenges of the second century A.D. provide one possible precedent for the struggles that Christians are facing in the present era. With that in mind, Garrick and Timothy travel back in time to see what contemporary Christians might learn from a second-century apologist named Aristides of Athens. It's basically like Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, except without the whole debacle in the shopping mall. In this first episode of Garrick and Timothy's excellent adventure, your intrepid cohosts learn how ancient Christians did radical civic good without bowing to the civic gods. The Raiders of Church History segment is the softest and weakest battle so far in this season. Basically, it consists of a silk flag being flopped against a piece of rope that was once the property of a monk. Along the way, Garrick mentions "elf spots." No one knows exactly what an elf spot is, but everyone agrees that "Elf Spot" would be a great name for an acoustic emo band that wears medieval outfits and plays music at Renaissance fairs. ABOUT YOUR HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, In Church as It Is in Heaven, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK Born This Way (Lady Gaga, 2017) Back to The Future (1985) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

In this episode, your intrepid cohosts learn why they need to get literate. "Bible literate," to be exact. According to author and Bible teacher Jen Wilkin, Bible literacy is a vital tool when it comes to apologetics—and "Bible literacy" is not the same thing as "biblical literacy." Biblical literacy means knowing about the Bible. Bible literacy requires knowing the Bible itself, and Bible literacy is part of what every Christian needs to be able to defend the faith. In the process of getting themselves some Bible literateness, Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones talk with Jen Wilkin about why there are so few women apologists, why Timothy will never write another book about the end of time, and whether or not it's possible for there to be too many extended guitar solos. (Spoiler alert: there is no such thing as too many guitar solos or a guitar solo that's too long.) Jen offers to play xylophone with the rock band Queen, and Garrick reveals a heretofore-unknown secret about Jen's singing abilities. In the segment known as Indiana, Jones, and the Raiders of Church History, the dynamic duo places a domesticated feline into battle against a king's shield. The cat survives, but only because of its longstanding concordat with Old Scratch himself. Timothy and Garrick also learn the word "strapwork," and "Strapwork" would be the perfect name for a New Wave of British Heavy Metal band. ABOUT YOUR HOSTS AND GUEST Jen Wilkin is an author and Bible teacher from Dallas, Texas and the Executive Director of Care, Family, and Next Gen Ministries at the Village Church in Flower Mound, TX. She has organized and led studies for women in home, church, and parachurch contexts. An advocate for Bible literacy, her passion is to see others become articulate and committed followers of Christ, with a clear understanding of why they believe what they believe, grounded in the Word of God. Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, In Church as It Is in Heaven, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK Jesus (Queen, 1973) More Than a Feeling (Boston, 2011) Misquoting Truth (Jones, 2007) Bohemian Rhapsody (Queen, 1975) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

You don’t have to be a jerk to be an apologist. In fact, if you’re being a jerk, you’re not doing apologetics in a biblical way, because biblical apologetics calls Christians to defend the faith in “meekness and fear” (1 Peter 3:15b). So how can we do apologetics without being a jerk? One of the best ways not to be a jerk is to listen to 1980s rock, which is why your intrepid cohosts have included clips from Bon Jovi and Sammy Hagar-era Van Halen in this episode. (Fun fact: Jon Bon Jovi’s last name is actually spelled “Bongiovi,” and “Böngïövï” would have been an amazing name for the band.) But you need more than 1980s rock to grow in meekness, and that’s why this episode goes far beyond merely reminding you of the greatness of Bon Jovi and Van Halen. In this second episode in a two-part series about where to begin in apologetics, the dynamic duo provides you with their final four points about apologetics—all of which can help you to do apologetics with gentleness and reverence while listening to Bon Jovi, which is the opposite of being a jerk. Here are the four points from this episode: 4. The life of a faithful apologist is marked by meekness. 5. Faithful apologists are more interested in winning people than in winning arguments. 6. Faithful apologists use different methods to meet different challenges. 7. Faithful apologists see apologetics as a work of the whole church. ABOUT YOUR HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK Living on a Prayer (Bon Jovi, 1986) There's Only One Way to Rock (Van Halen, 1986) Systematic Theology (John Frame, 2013) Reformed Dogmatics (Herman Bavinck, 2003) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

This episode begins with the infancy of Jesus and ends with his resurrection. Garrick brings up the infancy of Jesus in the Raiders of Church History segment in the most awkward of ways. This episode is the first—and hopefully the last—time that "lactation" has ever been mentioned on The Apologetics Podcast. Timothy brings the battle to a premature end by hitting Garrick in the head with the Lindisfarne Gospels. Your intrepid cohosts quickly forgive one another, however, and move on to make three key points about what apologetics is. This episode is the first in the two-part series about what apologetics is and how to do apologetics well. Here are the three main points in this episode: (1) Apologetics is a defense that includes evidence. (2) Apologetics calls for holiness. (3) Apologetics is centered in the hope of the resurrection. As Garrick and Timothy unpack these three points, Billy Joel shows up to defend the Christians wrongly accused of burning Rome in A.D. 64, and Pink Floyd and Brian May prove Augustine of Hippo right about the resurrection of Jesus. The Karate Kid shows up too, but the dynamic duo isn’t quite sure why. It has something to do with the Papyrus font, and ”Päpÿrüs” would be a perfect name for a heavy metal band that translates its lyrics from fragments of ancient papyri. ABOUT YOUR HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK The Apologist (R.E.M., 1998) We Didn't Start the Fire (Billy Joel, 1989) The Karate Kid (The Karate Kid, 1984) Coming Back to Life (Pink Floyd, 1994) Resurrection (Brian May, 1992) Patreon Support TheApologeticsPodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

If they made apologetics action figures, Josh McDowell would be one of the figures in the first set. If they made apologetics trading cards, Josh McDowell’s card would be in a collectible foil pack. He has toured with the pioneering Christian rock band Petra, and his book Evidence that Demands a Verdict was selected by Christianity Today as the thirteenth most influential Christian book published after the Second World War. Now, he’s here with us on this very special episode of The Apologetics Podcast. In 1991, "Losing My Religion" by R.E.M. was at the top of the pop charts, and Timothy was looking for evidence that Christianity was true. That's when two books that Timothy found in a library introduced him to apologetics. Those books were Surprised by Joy by C.S. Lewis and More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell. More than thirty years after Timothy first read More Than a Carpenter, Josh McDowell joins the dynamic duo to discuss his latest book How to Know God Exists: Solid Reasons to Believe in God, Discover Truth, and Find Meaning in Your Life (Tyndale, 2022). Josh also takes the time to reminisce about some of the ways that apologetics has shifted throughout his six decades of ministry. Along the way, he tells about his time touring with the Christian hard rock band Petra. In the segment of the program known as Raiders of Church History, it's a medieval mammal against ancient metal in a contest so violent that you may want to cover your children’s eyes while they’re listening. The violence breaks out because your intrepid cohosts throw a resurrected lamb into combat against a set of ancient spikes. The contest culminates with a Mediterranean feast, complete with trout and mutton shish-kebabs. Also, “Spïkëd Lämb” would be an amazing name for a death metal band. ABOUT YOUR HOSTS AND GUEST Josh McDowell is a Christian apologist, evangelist, and author. After studying at Kellogg College he completed his college degree at Wheaton College and then attended Talbot Theological Seminary. In 1961 he joined the staff of Campus Crusade for Christ International and shortly after he started the Josh McDowell Ministry. Of his numerous books, his best known titles are More Than A Carpenter, Evidence That Demands A Verdict, and Right from Wrong. More information can be found at his website here. Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible? Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK More Than A Carpenter (Josh McDowell, 2009) Creed (Petra, 1990) How to Know God Exists (Josh McDowell, 2022) Beyond Evolution (Anthony O'Hear, 1997) Evidence That Demands A Verdict (Josh McDowell, 2017) Patreon Support TheApologeticsPodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use). If anyone listening to this episode has questions about Josh McDowell's 2021 statements related to racial issues in the United States, you are encouraged to to read his apology and to watch this well-balanced video from Apologetics 315: "A Statement from Josh McDowell""A Response to Josh McDowell's Recent Statements."

Welcome to the Apathetic Episode of The Apologetics Podcast! An episode focused on apathy probably seems appropriate to all of you who have noticed how apathetic Garrick and Timothy have been about releasing new episodes for the past few months. But that wasn’t actually due to anyone’s apathy! It was because Timothy needed to finish writing a new apologetics book entitled In Church as It Is in Heaven, which InterVarsity Press will release in June 2023. Now that the book manuscript is in the publisher’s hands, the Apologetics Podcast is back and better and more apathetic than ever! Despite this exciting return of new episodes, the dynamic duo refuses to get excited. This is, after all, the Apathetic Episode, which requires them to remain apathetic. This episode’s installment of the Raiders of Church History begins with a piece of fruit. In a moment so apathetic that it’s almost pathetic, Timothy tosses his pear at a dead head, resulting in a dull draw that makes staring at sleeping rocks seem exciting. The apathy continues when Kyle Beshears reveals that his favorite rock group is Starflyer 59, a shoegaze band that barely qualifies as a rock band at all and happens to be the undisputed master of maudlin and apathetic music, though perhaps they wouldn’t have been so apathetic if they had added umlauts to their name. But Starflyer 59—or, as they’re known in a less apathetic parallel universe, “Stärflÿër 59”—is far from the most apathetic aspect of this Apathetic Episode because there is only one person in the universe more passionately committed to apathy than Garrick and Timothy, and that's Kyle Beshears. The topic of their discussion is “apatheism,” a term that theology professor Robert Nash coined in 2001 to describe people so apathetic that they don’t care whether or not God exists. Garrick and Kyle momentarily threaten the apathy of this episode when they begin talking about Mormonism and start to become almost excited. That’s when Timothy bravely but apathetically intervenes to restore the high levels of apathy for which this episode is destined to become famous. ABOUT YOUR HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK St. Augustine's Pears (Petra, 1998) Ya Right (Starflyer 59, 2021) When You Feel Miserable (Starflyer 59, 1995) Kyle Beshears Apatheism (Beshears, 2021) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones have already devoted one entire episode of this podcast to love. That was when they discussed Foreigner’s 1984 hit “I Want to Know What Love Is.” But Garrick and Timothy are far too full of love to fit all of their feelings about love into a single episode. That’s why they’re joining forces with Huey Lewis to talk about love again in this special Three Chords and the Truth episode of The Apologetics Podcast. Along the way, the dynamic duo discusses the history of Huey Lewis and the News, Augustine of Hippo, the Trinity, and the widespread contemporary declaration that “love is love.” In the end, they discover that, unless the nature of God defines love, “love” distorts something good that God designed for our joy and for his glory. Also, “American Express” was probably a better name for Huey Lewis’ band than “the News.” If only they had spelled it as “Ämërïcän Ëxprëss,” they might have been successful in keeping their original name as well as avoiding being sued by the credit-card company of the same name. In this installment of “Behind the Covers,” Garrick and Timothy take a look at a song that was popularized on the Grand Funk Railroad album “All the Girls in the World Beware!!!,” in which Grand Funk Railroad outdid Van Halen’s song “Everybody Wants Some!!” by adding three exclamation points instead of stopping at a mere two. If only they had added umlauts as well, the title would have been perfect, because we all know that “ëvërÿbödÿ wänts sömë!!” more umlauts in their life. The cover song this time is “Some Kind of Wonderful,” and your intrepid cohosts agree that Rod Stewart’s cover version isn’t wonderful at all. ABOUT HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK Some Kind of Wonderful (Soul Brothers Six, 1967) Some King of Wonderful (Grand Funk Railroad, 1974) Some Kind of Wonderful (Huey Lewis & The News, 1994) Some Kind of Wonderful (Rod Stewart, 2021) Some Kind of Wonderful (Little Milton, 1999) Some Kind of Wonderful (Joss Stone, 2003) Some Kind of Wonderful (Mark Farner, 1992) The Power of Love (Huey Lewis & The News, 1985) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

“The Constitution does not confer a right to abortion; Roe and Casey are overruled; and the authority to regulate abortion is returned to the people and their elected representatives.” With those words, the United States Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, the 1973 decision that declared a federal constitutional right to abortion. So what now? How should churches respond to this ruling? How can this decision be turned into an opportunity for apologetics? And what's been the historical perspective of Christians when it comes to abortion? That's what Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones discuss in this special episode of The Apologetics Podcast. What you'll discover as you listen is that Christians have been talking about abortion far longer than you may have imagined. Abortion has even shown up in apologetics conversations, although probably not in the ways that you might expect. This leads the dynamic duo into a discussion of a song by one of Timothy's favorite bands, King's X; the song is "Legal Kill." In the Raiders of Church History segment, Garrick finds a long-lost saint's tongue and sends it into battle against a crusader's lance. The result is a tongue piercing, which is something that your intrepid cohosts never imagined might happen on this particular podcast. Also, “Pïërcïng Töngüës” should be the name of an a capella heavy metal band. ABOUT HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK De Anima (Tertullian of Carthage) “Exodus,” in Expositor’s Bible Commentary: Revised Edition: Genesis—Leviticus (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 2008), 492–493. (Walter Kaiser) Legal Kill (King's X) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

If you like talking about ancient objects, this episode is for you. And, by "ancient objects," we don't mean things like typewriters, printed telephone books, and those AOL compact discs that used to show up in your mailbox every week. We're talking about items that are really old. Like, older than Keith Richards and Willie Nelson. And so, if ancient artifacts are your thing, join Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones on this exhilarating episode in which the dynamic duo discusses ancient texts, ancient abbreviations, ancient chains … and an ancient pelvis. Yes, an ancient pelvis. The episode begins with a battle between the chains of St. Paul and the pelvis of St. Nicholas—and by “St. Nicholas” we mean St. Nicholas of Myra, better known as “Santa Claus.” As it turns out, the pelvis of St. Nicholas is no longer connected to the rest of St. Nicholas, and one portion of his pelvis is thought by some to reside in a relic repository in the Chicago suburb of Morton Grove, Illinois. In Raiders of Church History, Timothy brings this intimate artifact into battle, certain that nothing could possibly defeat the pelvis of Santa Claus. (Also: “St. Nïck's Pëlvïs” would be a great name for a punk band that plays Christmas carols.) But then Garrick brings the chains that bound St. Paul, and the battle between your intrepid cohosts spins completely out of control. And that’s when Dr. Michael Kruger shows up to save the day. That’s right: Michael Kruger, president of the Charlotte campus of the Reformed Theological Seminary and preeminent scholar of early Christianity, joins us to talk about the reliability of the copies and the canon of the New Testament. While considering the ancient text of the New Testament, Dr. Kruger deals with some of the claims made by Bart Ehrman in his best-selling books Forged: Writing in the Name of God—Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are and Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why. Along the way, we also learn about an ancient pattern of abbreviations known as “nomina sacra” and the greatness of U2. ABOUT GUEST AND HOSTS Michael J. Kruger, Ph.D., serves as the President and Samuel C. Patterson Professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at the Charlotte campus of Reformed Theological Seminary. He earned his Ph.D. under one of the world’s leading text-critical scholars, Larry W. Hurtado, at the University of Edinburgh. Dr. Kruger is one of the world's leading scholars of the origins of the New Testament and the development of the New Testament canon. He is the author of twelve books, most recently Christianity at the Crossroads: How the Second Century Shaped the Future of the Church (2018). Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Welcome to the Very Kind Episode of The Apologetics Podcast! Of course, almost every episode of this podcast is kind of kind, mostly because Garrick is just that kind of person. But this episode is the kind of episode that’s particularly kind, because we’re joined by Dr. Keith Plummer, who is widely renowned for his special kind of kindness. Even the battle between your intrepid cohosts in Indiana, Jones, and the Raiders of Church History turns out to be cuddly and kind. Timothy puts a Pomeranian puppy named “Belferlein” into battle against Garrick's weapon of choice, which is a belt that once belonged to Mary the mother of Jesus. In the end, the belt is turned into a leash, and the dynamic duo decides to stop fighting and cuddle the puppy instead. That’s when Dr. Keith Plummer shows up, and things get even kinder. Dr. Plummer is one of the contributors to a very kind recent book entitled Before You Lose Your Faith: Deconstructing Doubt in the Church (The Gospel Coalition, 2021). In this episode, he is kind enough to talk to us about social media, deconversion, doubt, and the Doobie Brothers—a band whose 1976 hit “What a Fool Believes” includes the line “You don't know my kind.” All in all, this episode of The Apologetics Podcast is a one-of-a-kind experience in which even Timothy is kind, which is kind of rare. Also, “Bëlfërlëïn” would be the perfect name for a German industrial metal band, as long as they're a very kind band that likes dogs. ABOUT GUEST AND HOSTS Keith Plummer, Ph.D., is the Professor of Theology and Dean of the School of Divinity at Cairn University in Pennsylvania. He has a Ph.D. in Systematic Theology from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, where he also earned his M.Div. in Apologetics. Follow Dr. Plummer at @XianMind. Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK Before You Lose Your Faith: Deconstructing Doubt in the Church (The Gospel Coalition, 2021) The Digital Public Square: Christian Ethics in a Technological Society (B&H Academic, 2023) 25 Basic Bible Studies: Including Two Contents, Two Realities (Francis Schaeffer) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

The books of the Bible were selected in the year 325 at the Council of Nicaea, right? That's what a lot of Christians seem to think. But is this story true? If it isn't true, how did the tale of a council that created the canon begin in the first place? Those are the questions that your intrepid cohosts Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones explore in this episode. As with almost every explanation that Garrick and Timothy give, the answer turns out to be far weirder than you ever imagined. It involves a prayer, a table, and books that fall miraculously onto the floor. Also, it entails Timothy speaking these words to Garrick, which also could have appeared in a fortune cookie if Garrick and Timothy were writing the fortunes in the cookies: "The canon of Scripture and the Council of Nicaea are like Elvis Presley and 'American Pie,' dude." The only way to comprehend Timothy's cryptic proclamation is to listen to this podcast episode in its entirety. Also in this episode, the dynamic duo throws the bones of Edward the Confessor into battle against a creature that you probably thought existed only in Dumbledore's office, even though it's described in an early Christian sermon. Without revealing the outcome, let's just say that Edward the Confessor stays dead and that early Christians believed in some zoological phenomena that you probably don't. Also, why hasn't anyone ever named their band "Phöënïx"? ABOUT HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Follow Dr. Jones at @DrTimothyPJones. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK How We Got the Bible (book by Timothy Paul Jones) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

It's the end of apologetics! Well, at least that's what a recent book by Myron Bradley Penner claims, which is big if true. If apologetics has reached its end, after all, your intrepid cohosts will soon need to bid adieu, since there's no need for an apologetics podcast if the extinction of apologetics is imminent. But, alas, seconds before Timothy turns to Garrick with mist in his eyes and whispers, "The Quest is achieved, and now all is over. I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things," the eagles arrive and sweep the dynamic duo away to a shire of hope in ancient Athens. As it turns out, the title of Myron Bradley Penner's book is somewhat exaggerated, and there is a future for apologetics after all. Timothy is convinced that this future is actually found in the past—in the church fathers of the second century, to be exact. To prove this point, Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones appeal to a paper that Timothy presented at the most recent gathering of the Evangelical Theological Society. If you've never heard of ETS, don't despair; it's basically Comic-Con, except it's for theologians and biblical scholars instead of comic-book cosplayers, which results in a lot less Spandex than you see at Comic-Con—and that’s a good thing because, even though “Thëölögïäns ïn Spändëx” would be a great name for a band, it’s not something you would want to see in real life. In the end, in an act of heroism of a sort that hasn't been seen since Avengers: Endgame was in the theaters, Garrick and Timothy bravely prevent the end of apologetics. They do this by showing how the life of the church provides a defense of the faith. Also, Live Aid would never have happened in 1985 if it hadn't been for the rise of Christianity nearly two thousand years earlier. This round of Indiana, Jones, and the Raiders of Church History pits a clipeus of Constantine against the sudarium of Veronica. As you might imagine from all the times in your life when your clipeus has gone to war against your sudarium, the results are rather messy. Before it’s all over, Veronica's sudarium—also known as a veil utilized to wipe sweat—is defeated by the appearance of a boss. Sadly, this boss not The Boss, also known as Bruce Springsteen. It's the iron knob embedded in a clipeus—also known as a circular shield—and it's this boss that brings about the decisive defeat of Veronica's veil, also known as Garrick loses this round. ABOUT HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Follow Dr. Jones at @DrTimothyPJones. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK The End of Apologetics (book by Myron Penner) Telling a Better Story (book by Josh Chatraw) Apologetics at the Cross (book by Josh Chatraw) The Apology (book by Aristides) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Finally, after three years of this podcast, the time has come to talk about something that we’ve rarely talked about before. It’s time to talk about … … Metallica. The first part of this two-part series focuses on how being raised as a Christian Scientist impacted lead vocalist James Hetfield’s life and Metallica’s lyrics. This provides the dynamic duo with an opportunity to discuss the history and theology of Mary Baker Eddy and the Church of Christ, Scientist. If you’re interested in doing apologetics with Christian Scientists, this episode provides you with everything you need to get started. Along the way, Timothy is deeply embarrassed as Garrick reveals not only his toes but also his deep affection for Mariah Carey and his deep-seated fear of Oingo Boingo super-fans. The first installment of “Behind the Covers” puts Metallica’s cover of a tune originally performed by The Kinks into battle against Van Halen’s version of the same song. In the end, your intrepid cohosts can’t agree on a winner. What they do agree about is that The Kinks are underrated and that Van Halen and Metallica are two of the greatest bands ever. Also, "Bëhïnd thë Cövërs" would be the perfect name for a cover band that decorates the stage with quilts and duvets. ABOUT HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Follow Dr. Jones at @DrTimothyPJones. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK The God That Failed (song by Metallica) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com The Apologetics Newsletter Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Some topics are too amazing to fit into a single episode. Metallica is one of them. In this second part of this dive into the music of Metallica, Garrick and Timothy look at the theology behind the 1991 song "The God That Failed." Along the way, your intrepid cohosts include an audio clip from the most shocking video in which Metallica's lead vocalist James Hetfield has ever appeared. Believe it or not, it all begins with a Nobel Prize-winning scientific research project that involved cardboard butterflies. (Also, "Cärdböärd Bütterflÿ" would be an amazing name for a psychedelic jam band.) The dynamic duo ends the episode with a powerful look at how the gospel answers the dilemmas of shame and unforgiveness that emerge as such dominant themes in Metallica's later albums. ABOUT HOSTS Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Follow Dr. Jones at @DrTimothyPJones. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK The God That Failed (song by Metallica) The Unforgiven I, II, and III (songs by Metallica) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com The Apologetics Newsletter Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S. copyright law. “The fair use of a copyrighted work … for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, … scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright” (U.S. Code § 107, Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use).

Welcome to The Weird Episode of The Apologetics Podcast! “Wait a minute!” some of you are already saying. “Isn’t every episode of The Apologetics Podcast weird? I mean, just this season, they’ve already featured a phoenix, a magical veil, a holy prepuce, and Timothy.” If that was your first thought when you heard that this episode had been christened as "The Weird Episode," you are not wrong, dear listener. And yet, this episode is going to be even weirder. A lot weirder. “Wait a minute!” a few of you are now saying. “Is that even possible?” The shocking answer is, “Yes.” The weirdness begins with the episode that Timothy and Garrick refer to as “Indiana, Jones, and the Raiders of Church History.” This week, Timothy brings one of the weirdest items ever to make an appearance on The Apologetics Podcast: Antonello, a pet trout from the fifteenth century who was raised from the dead after being fried by the friars. But then Garrick shows up and stabs Antonello with the Lance of Destiny. In the end, the dynamic duo concludes that Antonello is no match for the Lance of Destiny, though perhaps Antonello might survive longer against the Lance of Destiny's Child, which is a spear that sings "Survivor" before stabbing you. And, by the way, “Lance of Destiny” and “Pet Trout” would both make great names for bands. After that, it’s on to the magical unicorns! Yes, that’s right: unicorns. As it turns out, unicorns show up rather frequently in the King James Version of the Bible. Eight times, to be exact (Numbers 23:22; 24:8; Deuteronomy 33:17; Job 39:9-10; Psalms 22:21; 29:6; 92:10; Isaiah 34:7), which is exactly eight times more than red pandas are mentioned in the Bible, which is a real editorial oversight in the Word of God, if you ask Timothy or Garrick. In any case, this is the point at which Dan Kimball from Vintage Faith Church joins your intrepid cohosts to discuss unicorns, anti-shrimp laws, and other weirdities from the Bible that could only be discussed on a weird episode. But neither a magical unicorn nor a pet trout turns out to be the weirdest animal-related aspect of this weird episode. That’s because Dan also wants to discuss the legality of donkeys in bathtubs. Along the way, Dan talks about his most recent book How (Not) to Read the Bible: Making Sense of the Anti-Women, Anti-Science, Pro-Violence, Pro-Slavery and Other Crazy-Sounding Parts of Scripture. ABOUT THE GUEST AND HOSTS Dan Kimball, Ph.D., is the author of several books on leadership, church, and culture. He was one of the founders of Vintage Faith Church in Santa Cruz, California where he still serves on staff. He is also a faculty member at Western Seminary and leads the ReGeneration Project, which exists to equip and encourage new generations to think theologically and participate in the mission of the church. Check out Dr. Kimball's website, dankimball.com, for more information. Timothy Paul Jones, Ph.D., is C. Edwin Gheens Professor of Christian Ministry at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He teaches in the areas of family ministry and applied apologetics. He has authored or edited more than a dozen books, including Why Should I Trust the Bible?, The God Who Goes Before You, Perspectives on Family Ministry, and Christian History Made Easy. Follow Dr. Jones at @DrTimothyPJones. Garrick Bailey is a Ph.D. student in systematic theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, studying Herman Bavinck and Roman Catholicism under the supervision of Gregg Allison. LINKS TO CLICK How (Not) to Read the Bible (book by Dan Kimball) Why Should I Trust the Bible? (book by Timothy Paul Jones) Patreon Support theapologeticspodcast.com Urban Ministry Podcast CLOSING CREDITS Music for the podcast has been licensed through Artlist.io and performed by Cunningham Manor. Brief excerpts of music played in each program are included solely for the purposes of comment and critique as allowed under the fair-use provision of U.S....