Being Human with Steve Cuss

“Did you have integrity today?” That’s the question that Steve Carter, author, podcaster, and former lead teaching pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, pictured his son asking him when allegations of sexual harassment against Bill Hybels emerged. Carter realized he couldn’t go “play church.” He had to take the allegations seriously and act with integrity, which, for him, looked like resigning. On this episode of Being Human, Cuss and Carter discuss what it looks like to have integrity when mentors and institutions fail us. They talk about the heartbreak of losing beloved communities, navigating relationships when people feel betrayed, and how difficult it is to see broken systems when inside them. Carter shares how he has dealt with the weight of being misunderstood, the way some of his highest values were wielded against him, and what it was like to deal with public loss and accusation as an Enneagram Three. He and Cuss talk about the power of the resurrection and the two Greek words that became an anchor for Carter. And they discuss what propelled Carter to write Grieve, Breathe, Receive—a stunning memoir on grief and healing that recounts Carter leaving Willow Creek Church, entering a wilderness season, and enduring loss upon loss upon loss, from income and reputation to precious family members and more. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Luke: Interpretation: A Bible Commentary for Teaching and Preaching by Fred B. Craddock Steve Carter Craft & Character with Steve Carter Grieve, Breathe, Receive: Finding a Faith Strong Enough to Hold Us by Steve Carter The Thing Beneath the Thing: What's Hidden Inside (and What God Helps Us Do About It) by Steve Carter Willow Creek Community Church “Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs” “Cadet Prayer” Annie F. Downs Ira Glass Camino De Santiago “What Is a Verbatim?” Compassion International “Welcoming Practice” The Worst James Harden Flops “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A systems theorist walks into an organization and orders playfulness and earnestness. This isn’t just a silly take on a joke format—it’s a tested method of determining whether or not teams have what it takes to go the distance. As host Steve Cuss explains on this episode of Being Human, too much seriousness on a team tends to lead to rigidity, but playful teams tend to be able to handle ambiguity and challenges. Could the same be true for worship? Sometimes we get too earnest and everything gets rigid. In this episode Steve looks at the power of playfulness in your people, how ot notice when things are getting too earnest and stuck and the relationship between playfulness and worship. Steve also teaches us how to use a Life Giving List to help us relax into God’s presence. You can download a life giving list template here. Tune in for an episode that invites us to treasure our faith through playful presence with God. Click here to pre order Steve’s new book. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Bowen family systems theory Death by Meeting: A Leadership Fable About Solving the Most Painful Problem in Business by Patrick Lencioni Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton “Letter XLVI” by Saint Bernard of Clairvaux The Expectation Gap: The Tiny, Vast Space between Our Beliefs and Experience of God by Steve Cuss Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin Friedman “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Jesus cares for our troubles, but they don’t worry him.” So says Alan Fadling, who joins host Steve Cuss on this episode of Being Human. Fadling is an author and the leader of Unhurried Living, a non-profit that trains people to rest deeper, live fuller and lead better. His latest book, The Non-Anxious Life, draws from spiritual formation and touches on systems theory, as well. Cuss and Fadling discuss the ways that anxiety is not just a personal dynamic, but an organizational one. They consider what Dallas Willard had to say about anxiety and peace, how anxiety communicates that God is not there for us, and what it may look like to remember that Jesus is present with us. They talk about the differences in believing that “I am anxiety” and “I have anxiety.” And they consider how anxiety influences leadership, our sense of connection with Jesus, and our engagement with culture. Tune in for an episode that sheds light on the way of peace. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Alan Fadling The Non-Anxious Life: Experiencing the Peace of God's Presence by Alan Fadling Unhurried Living George Doebler Bowen family systems theory Edwin H. Friedman Dallas Willard Viktor Frankl “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you struggle to keep your thoughts to yourself in the internet age, you’re not alone. On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss admits that he struggles with a core belief that sounds something like the world needs my opinion. What are Christians to do in an era when there’s nonstop opportunity to reply, comment, and react? On this episode, Cuss welcomes someone he looks up to in this regard: Jay Kim, lead pastor of WestGate Church in San Jose, California and author of several books, including his latest, Listen, Listen, Speak. Kim and Cuss consider the implications of God as infinite and humans as finite and the immensity of eternity. They talk about Kim’s emphasis on listening, formative moments in his faith, and how he believes social media is shaping people. Their conversation covers spiritual practices that can help us remain rooted in a tumultuous era and points to the characteristics of God reflected in creatures and creation. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Jay Kim WestGate Church Analog Church: Why We Need Real People, Places, and Things in the Digital Age Analog Christian: Cultivating Contentment, Resilience, and Wisdom in the Digital Age by Jay Y. Kim Listen, Listen, Speak: Hearing God and Being Heard in a Noisy World by Jay Y. Kim Gravity Interstellar Neil Postman Hate Inc.: Why Today’s Media Makes Us Despise One Another by Matt Taibbi The Art Institute of Chicago Nighthawks by Edward Hopper The Weight of Glory by C.S. Lewis Bo Burnham: Inside “The Ignatian Examen” The Lord’s Prayer Andy Crouch Joshua Tree “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So much of our experience is shaped by what gets passed down to us. Whether it's trauma, wisdom, or a signature hair color, traits and knowledge travel from generation to generation. On this episode of Being Human, Steve Cuss welcomes George Dobeler, the chaplain who first passed down the concept of family systems theory to Cuss. Doebler and Cuss talk about Doebler's learning from Murray Bowen, who founded the theory. They discuss the importance of understanding one’s family system when it comes to diffusing anxiety. Doebler and Cuss provide real-life examples of systems theory helping people become less reactive and more in touch with God, themselves, and others. Their conversation covers chaplaincy, trauma recovery, and how theology shapes our responses to anxiety. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Bowen family systems theory George Doebler Murray Bowen Harry Stack Sullivan Edwin H. Friedman Genogram Friedman’s Fables by Edwin H. Friedman A Failure of Nerve: Leadership in the Age of the Quick Fix by Edwin H. Friedman “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Some of the most beautiful art in existence was born of great trauma and pain. Think of Vincent Van Gogh, for example, or the Psalms written from a hiding place. On this episode of Being Human, Steve Cuss welcomes two artists who both know great tragedy and have produced remarkable creative work: Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth. The married couple recently published a book, Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt, and they join Cuss for a discussion of grief, art, and hospitality. Their conversation touches some of the couple’s lowest valleys and highest mountains. They talk about Art House America, which they founded in 1991, and how music and writing have been their companions in times of joy and sorrow. Tune in for a vulnerable and rich discussion of marriage, self-reflection, and the hope of Christ in all things. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Vincent Van Gogh on Doctor Who Charlie Peacock Andi Ashworth Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt by Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth Art House America Greenbelt Festival Scotty Smith Francis and Edith Schaeffer My Father’s Crown by Charlie Peacock Luci Shaw Paranassus Books Music & Meaning with Charlie Peacock “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The workplace can be a setting where people see their worth and have it honored by others. It can also be a hub of discouragement, aimlessness, and a lack of encouragement. On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes Jeff Haanen, author of Working from the Inside Out. Haanen, who is the founder of the Denver Faith and Work Institute, sheds light on how inner work can shape outer work and what it looks like to live out Christianity in jobs and careers. He provides listeners with a starting point for thinking theologically about their work and gives pastors some tips for helping their congregants feel seen in their work lives. Cuss and Haanen talk about dignifying all types of honest work, the value of physical labor, and what it looks like to work unto the Lord when career and passion don’t align. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Denver Institute for Faith and Work Working from the Inside Out: A Brief Guide to Inner Work That Transforms Our Outer World by Jeff Haanen The Center for Faith and Work Lesslie Newbigin Charlotte Institute for Faith & Work Nashville Institute for Faith and Work Made to Flourish “God of the Second Shift” Treatment Technology Babette’s Feast “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Music is one of the host Steve Cuss’ favorite ways to relax into God’s presence. On this episode he welcomes two artists who help him do just that—Andy Gullahorn and Jill Phillips. A married couple in Nashville, Tennessee, both Andy and Jill are singer-songwriters. Jill also practices as a therapist and Andy has a unique healing ministry. The three discuss the power of songs and how the music industry has changed over time. They talk about what it means to pursue “a long obedience in the same direction,” as the late Eugene Peterson put it, and how to pursue work that is faithful and meaningful. They share practices they’d like to see uprooted in the church, as well as those they hope to see implemented. Finally, they share the experiences that generate reactivity in them and how they try to respond with gentleness and godliness. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Andy Gullahorn Jill Phillips Lyle Lovett Albert Borghman “My City of Ruins” by Bruce Springsteen “The Brave One” by Andy Gullahorn “Grand Canyon” by Andy Gullahorn Justin Timberlake & Chris Stapleton, Country Music Awards, 2015 Steven Curtis Chapman Long Obedience in the Same Direction: Discipleship in an Instant Society by Eugene Peterson The Pastor: A Memoir by Eugene Peterson Brad Jersak Celebrate Recovery “Died: Thomas McKenzie, Defender and Definer of Anglicanism” by Daniel Silliman “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

"In Christ, God has come near and has walked with us. The transformation that is other than us has actually come near so that we could be changed and transformed.” So says pastor and author Geoff Holsclaw as he joins host Steve Cuss on this episode of Being Human. Holsclaw, who cohosts the Embodied Faith podcast and runs Western Seminary’s doctor of ministry program in spiritual formation and relational neuroscience, is deeply interested in how people grow, transform, and connect to God. On this episode, Holsclaw and Cuss talk about attachment theory, philosophy, and theology. They discuss liturgical practices that shape people and communities and consider how physical bodies relate to one another in spiritual spaces. Their conversation includes Holsclaw’s participation in the Vineyard Movement, what it looks like to combine the charismatic and liturgical, and what drew Holsclaw to brain science. Tune in for an episode that incorporates all parts of what it means to be human, from the spiritual and emotional to the mental and physical. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Geoff Holsclaw Vineyard USA Augustine Hegel Doctor of ministry program at Western Seminary: Spiritual formation and relational neuroscience Does God Really Like Me?: Discovering the God Who Wants to Be With Us by Cyd Holsclaw and Geoff Holsclaw Embodied Faith podcast Richard Foster Dallas Willard Devotional Classics: Selected Readings for Individuals and Groups by Richard Foster Attachment theory The Enneagram The Change Monster: The Human Forces that Fuel or Foil Corporate Transformation and Changeby Jeanie Daniel Duck “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Presence has a profound impact on our lives. So does its opposite—absence. On this episode of Being Human, Steve Cross welcomes author, professor, and public theologian Esau McCaulley. McCaulley’s book Reading While Black is dedicated to his father, which may lead people to believe that they had a close relationship. But, McCaulley says that dedication was his way of declaring, “I forgive you.” During their conversation, Cross and McCaulley talk about how the absence of paternal love can shape a child. They discuss how McCaulley’s childhood affects his parenting, the role of humor in processing trauma, and the power of memory. They talk about racism, shame, and the roots of dehumanization. And they consider the presence of God’s love and redemption. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Esau McCaulley Reading While Black: African American Biblical Interpretation as an Exercise in Hope by Esau McCaulley How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South by Esau McCaulley The New Testament in Color: A Multiethnic Bible Commentary by Esau McCaulley Horatio Alger Marvin Williams Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis The Reason for God: Belief in an Age of Skepticism by Timothy Keller Simply Christian: Why Christianity Makes Sense by N.T. Wright The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today on Being Human, it’s all about the Enneagram. Steve Cuss welcomes back his friend and colleague Jimmy Carnes for a discussion about the nine types and how they reflect the character of God. Carnes explains the holy idea of each Enneagram type—also known as the nine faces of God—and the ways that we are all striving for one aspect of God to be true. Carnes and Cuss discuss the nuances of their types and others. They consider how the Enneagram system can help people identify where they lose connection with God, themselves, and others. And they discuss navigating grief and anxiety as complex humans who are loved by God. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Capable Life The Enneagram Papillion Thomas Keating’s “Programs for Happiness” “If Discerning Good & Evil is Good, Why Was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil Bad?” (Greg Boyd, ReKnew) I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For by U2 History of the World: Part I The Good Doctor Andy Gullahorn Rich Mullins “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Start paying attention. Those three words sound simple enough. And yet, just about everyone who has tried to focus on understanding what’s going on inside themselves knows that the process can get tricky pretty fast. Introspection can be as infuriating as it is illuminating. On this episode of Being Human, host Steve Cuss welcomes his dear friend and co-laborer at Capable Life Jimmy Carnes to talk about paying attention. Their conversation covers dehumanization, inner critics, and anxiety. Carnes explains what triangulation is and how Christians can notice and respond to it. He shares some of his own sources of anxiety, how he’s working on addressing them, and how building Lego has become a life-giving habit for him. Tune in for an episode that is full of tips for growing more connected to God, yourself, and others. And be sure to come back next week as Carnes and Cuss’ describe how the Enneagram, reactivity, and anxiety all fit together, and how the Enneagram can help us connect to God. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Capable Life The Enneagram “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“The reality of trauma is that it’s a perceived experience where we feel like the tools that we have, to cope with what we have experienced, have been exhausted … so those experiences and meaning made get stuck in our bodies.” So says Lisa Cuss, therapist and wife of Steve Cuss, on this episode of Being Human. Lisa and Steve talk about the ways trauma lodges inside of us, bodily techniques for processing difficult experiences, and what it means to understand God as the ultimate healer. They dig deeper into systems theory, discuss how theology and psychology can integrate, and share stories from their early marriage. Lisa explains the dangers of spiritualizing our experiences and what it may look like to invite God into them instead. They talk about times in their lives when they experienced deep grief and how they learned to accept care and compassion rather than only being the ones to share it with others. Tune in for a conversation that gets right to the heart of the matter of what it is to be—and to feel—human. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Bowen family systems theory EMDR “It Is Well With My Soul” by Horatio G. Spafford “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Most Christians would probably say that relaxing in the presence of God sounds like a beautiful idea. But do we know how to do that? And do we understand what gets in our way? On this episode of Being Human, Steve Cuss helps listeners identify the reactivity in their lives that keeps them from experiencing connection with God, themselves, and others. He walks through a brief history of systems theory, noting the key figures who have built a body of work exploring how relational dynamics affect us. He explains the ways that ego drives decision-making, how to recognize and respond to stuck patterns, and what it looks like to “get off the treadmill” of expending energy and effort on trying harder. Cuss shares stories from Scripture, history, and his own life that shed light on how to look at the nature of our beliefs. And he digs down to the surprising roots of the word “gospel,” illuminating the ways that only Christianity has a God who sacrifices that humanity might benefit. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Bowen Family Systems Theory Edwin H. Friedman Generation to Generation: Family Process in Church and Synagogue by Edwin H. Friedman Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs by Steve Cuss Gregory Bateson Margaret Mead Mental Research Institute The False Self Pax: War and Peace in Rome’s Golden Age by Tom Holland Virgil Timothy Keller Faith Within Reason by Herbert McCabe “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when we’re reactive? We disconnect from our awareness of God. So says Steve Cuss on this episode of Being Human. With concrete advice and a tone of encouragement, Cuss illuminates the path for listeners who want to name what causes their reactivity so they can stay connected to themselves, God, and others. Cuss explores how Jesus paves a way for us to connect to our so-called enemies. He directs listeners into prayer and peace as he shares stories of addressing anxiety and reactivity in his own life. And he helps listeners identify how reactivity shows up in their bodies so that they can actively diffuse it. Tune in for an episode that is Scripturally rich, gently guiding, and practically applicable. Resources mentioned in this episode include: Managing Leadership Anxiety Capable Life Richard Villodas Experimental Theology with Richard Beck “Being Human with Steve Cuss” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Produced by Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper Produced and Edited by Matt Stevens Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill, Raed Gilliam, and Abby Perry Theme song by Dan Phelps Original Music by Andy Gullahorn Mix Engineer: Kevin Morris Graphic Design: Amy Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Steve digs deeper into the anxiety known as "reactivity" and the different ways we all respond when our values are broken by others. He uses the 2024 presidential election as an example, giving viewers a couple of tools to manage reactivity. For more about Steve, and to download his video ‘The 4 Spaces of Anxiety’ visit stevecusswords.com Being Human with Steve Cuss, in collaboration with Christianity Today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The first episode of Being Human With Steve Cuss, in collaboration with Christianity Today. Steve talks about the nature of reactivity, how it disconnects us, and how being a ‘well self’ is kept for human flourishing. Steve shares much of his own journey and gives a couple of tools to manage reactivity. For more about Steve, and to download his video ‘The 4 Spaces of Anxiety’ visit www.stevecusswords.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Friendly Neighborhood Therapist joins Steve on this annual wrap up. They chat about lessons learned this year, giving yourself the gift of wellbeing in 2024 and what is coming down the pike for next year. Plus, Steve shares his favorite advent poem. We also announce the podcast's new name. NOTE: next year our podcast name is changing as we move onto a new partnership, but you don't need to do anything - you can access it through your existing podcast subscription. Click here to learn more about our intensives To make a difference in the lives of aged out foster youth visit Dream Makers Project Visit Seminary Now to engage an amazing library of courses for your faith. Use CUSS30 coupon code for 30% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

*Apologies for the crunchy audio at the beginning of the show* J.S. (Joon) Park is a hospital chaplain and author of The Voices We Carry. Steve first encountered J.S. through his remarkable twitter feed which is well worth a follow here. Joon talks through his first day as a chaplain, how verbatims help us grow and how to stay human in a world of constant suffering and death. This was a remarkable interview! Thanks to our sponsors: To make a difference in the lives of aged out foster youth visit Dream Makers Project Visit Seminary Now to engage an amazing library of courses for your faith. Use CUSS30 coupon code for 30% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brad Lomenick is the former president of Catalyst and the author of several books including the H3 Leader. Brad is a gifted connector and developer of people. For two decades he has met with thousands of Christian leaders. In this interview, Steve gets into Brad's early leadership experience when he was 8 and what wrangling horses taught him about leadership. Like others before him, he gleefully endured the Gauntlet. To make a difference in the lives of aged out foster youth visit Dream Makers Project Visit Seminary Now to engage an amazing library of courses for your faith. Use CUSS30 coupon code for 30% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices