The Bible and Beyond

An Interview with Dr. Nina Livesey After Livesey demonstrated that authenticity of the Pauline letters was inadequately and uncritically determined, she didn’t think it was possible to make a good case that the letters were authentic, even though it's so commonly assumed that they are. Once she had gone through all of that, she looked for evidence of Pauline letters. The first ones appear in the mid-second century, from the school of Marcion! Livesey was not the first to make that discovery. Dr. Nina Livesey a professor emerita of religious studies at the Oklahoma University College of Professional and Continuing Studies. In addition to her specialization in Pauline letters, she’s interested in a variety of aspects of Christian emergence. She was one of the co-chairs of Westar's the recently concluded Christianity Seminar Phase II. Nina has also written three significant monographs. We discuss her newly published book, The Letters of Paul in their Roman Literary Context: Reassessing Apostolic Authorship in this podcast interview. A complete transcript is available on the Bible and Beyond website here: https://earlychristiantexts.com/possible-paul-didnt-write-letters/

An Interview with Dr. Perry Kea When the young teen, Thecla, heard Paul’s preaching about a new kind of life following Christ, she became infatuated with both the message and the messenger. Abandoning her fiancé and her Roman aristocratic life style, she faced two death threats, discovered her own strength and worth, and matured in her appreciation for both Paul and his teachings. She bought into the ascetic way of life and insisted on her rights as a woman with authority. Dr. Perry Kea has been an active Scholar of the Westar Institute since 1987. He served as the Chair of its Board of Directors from 2014 – 2019. He co-Chaired Westar’s Mini-seminar on the Bible and Human Sexuality and has participated in several other seminars, notably the Jesus Seminar, the Acts Seminar, and the two Christianity Seminars. He also contributes to Westar publications and Westar programming. Perry is Associate Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at the University of Indianapolis, Indiana, where he taught for 35 years. A transcript is available at https://earlychristiantexts.com/theclas-challenge-early-christian-world.

The Complicated Lives of Enslaved Women of the Bible An Interview with Dr. Christy Cobb Bible readers tend to skip over the stories of enslaved people because they seem to be treated as props for the ‘real’ meaning or main message of the biblical account. But a closer look at the lives of these marginalized enslaved people in the stories—such as sex workers who were might have been sold to brothels against their will—enriches our understanding of the Bible. Recognizing the invisible attitudes and forces help us rethink the stories’ meanings. Dr. Christy Cobb is an Assistant Professor of Christianity in the Department of Religious Studies at the University of Denver, and she is also an Affiliated Faculty in the Gender/Women's Studies Department. She is a biblical scholar with a focus on the New Testament and early Christian texts, and her scholarship and teaching focuses on issues of slavery, gender, and sexuality in antiquity, and she writes on texts such as Acts, the Gospels, the Apocryphal Acts, and other ancient narratives. ​ Full transcript available here: https://earlychristiantexts.com/enslaved-bible-women/

Part 2 of our interview with Matthew Goff and Dylan Burns continues the discussion we started in Part 1 about the relationship between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library. Goff and Burns explain the significant differences between the two, such as their different dates and locations of origin. But they also explore the similarities, with their mutual interest in more ancient writings, such as how some important figures from Genesis—such as the Book of Watchers, with its myths of evil origins— came from Enoch; and how Melchizedek was the priest associated with the Christ figure. This is part two of a two-part series. The first episode in the series was released May 7, 2025. Read the book they co-authored, The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codices. It's open source, so it's available for free! Dr. Dylan M. Burns is Assistant Professor of the History of Esotericism in Late Antiquity at the University of Amsterdam. He earned his doctorate in Ancient Christianity at Yale University in 2011, before holding research positions in Copenhagen, Leipzig, and Berlin. Among his books are Apocalypse of the Alien God: Platonism and the Exile of Sethian Gnosticism (2014), Did God Care? Providence, Dualism, and Will in Later Greek and Early Christian Philosophy (2020), and The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codices (2022). Dr. Matthew Goff joined the faculty of Florida State's Religion Department in 2005. He completed an M.T.S degree in 1997 at Harvard Divinity School and finished his Ph.D. at the University of Chicago in 2002. He studied under John Collins and wrote his dissertation on a Qumran text entitled 4QInstruction. His publications focus on the Dead Sea Scrolls and ancient Judaism, and his most recent book is The Apocrypha: A Guide (Oxford, 2024). His current book project is on demons and monsters in ancient Judaism and early Christianity.

Is There a Connection Between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library? An Interview with Dr. Matthew Goff and Dr. Dylan Burns (Part 1) Professors Matthew Goff and Dylan Burns realized there were some surprising commonalities between the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi Library. Traditionally, these ancient writings are studied separately, despite their modern discoveries around the same time and relatively close locations. With Dr. Goff’s expertise in the Dead Sea Scrolls and Dr. Burns’ expertise in the Nag Hammadi Library, they could describe why both are so important for an understanding of the evolution of Judeo-Christian religions. This is part one of a two-part series. The second episode in the series will be released on June 4, 2025. Read the book they co-authored, The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codices. It's open source, so it's available for free! Dr. Dylan M. Burns is Assistant Professor of the History of Esotericism in Late Antiquity at the University of Amsterdam. He earned his doctorate in Ancient Christianity at Yale University in 2011, before holding research positions in Copenhagen, Leipzig, and Berlin. Among his books are Apocalypse of the Alien God: Platonism and the Exile of Sethian Gnosticism (2014), Did God Care? Providence, Dualism, and Will in Later Greek and Early Christian Philosophy (2020), and The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codices (2022). Dr. Matthew Goff joined the faculty of Florida State's Religion Department in 2005. He completed an M.T.S degree in 1997 at Harvard Divinity School and finished his Ph.D. at the University of Chicago in 2002. He studied under John Collins and wrote his dissertation on a Qumran text entitled 4QInstruction. His publications focus on the Dead Sea Scrolls and ancient Judaism, and his most recent book is The Apocrypha: A Guide (Oxford, 2024). His current book project is on demons and monsters in ancient Judaism and early Christianity. A written transcript is available here: https://earlychristiantexts.com/dead-sea-scrolls-and-nag-hammadi-library/.

An interview with Dr. Kimberly Fowler Dr. Kimberley Fowler explains the Gospel of Philip, one of the lesser known texts from the Nag Hammadi collection. She loves it and finds it “charmingly and remarkably weird,” even though is it does not stray too far from orthodox Christian theology. Although it includes a brief reference to Jesus kissing Mary, that kiss seems to be only one of the many ritual Christian practices explained in the rather randomly organized gospel. Kimberley Fowler is Assistant Professor of New Testament at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands. Her research incorporates a range of topics in early Christianity, most especially the Coptic texts of the Nag Hammadi Codices, where she has focused on the production and reception context of the manuscripts and what this reveals about diverse early Christian reading practices. She has also worked on the manuscripts of the New Testament and is co-leading a project on an important copy of Paul's letters and its annotation system. Kimberley is currently writing a monograph on the Gospel of Philip for Cambridge University Press, as well as a short volume on the Nag Hammadi Codices for Cambridge's Elements in Early Christianity series. Complete transcript available here: https://earlychristiantexts.com/gospel-of-philip/

An Interview with Dr. Meredith J. C. Warren We asked Dr. Meredith J. C. Warren to describe how Jesus’s family and followers would have practiced their religion. They were probably a typical Jewish family, where the types of houses and everyday life were all intertwined with religious practices. She claims that both Jesus and his mother were probably less unusual than we have been taught to think, especially in everyday life—except that Jesus was probably more radical in his commitment to Torah teachings. Dr. Meredith J. C. Warren is a Senior Lecturer in Biblical and Religious Studies at the University of Sheffield, in England, where she is director of the Sheffield Centre for Interdisciplinary Biblical Studies and is editor in chief of its journal, The Journal of Interdisciplinary Biblical Studies. She is also an associate editor for the Enoch Seminar Online Reviews. Her publications include several books and articles, and they cover topics such as gender, anti-Judaism, feminism, the senses, and clothing for early Judaism and early Christianity. Her co-authorship of Jewish and Christian Women in the Ancient Mediterranean provides the basis of this podcast interview. In addition to this interview on the Bible and Beyond Podcast, Warren has given interviews on BBC Radio, NPR, and The Guardian. A transcript of this interview is available here: https://earlychristiantexts.com/jesus-practice-religion/.

What is the Nag Hammadi Library? An Interview with Dr. Dylan Burns Dr. Dylan Burns, a leading scholar on the “Nag Hammadi Library” and related texts, describes the significance of the 1945 archaeological discovery in Nag Hammadi, Egypt. It is not only of great importance for a better understanding of Christian origins, but many of the texts also reveal a great beauty and probing inquiry into the meaning of the divine in human experience. Their great diversity and welcome for women leadership were among the greatest surprises. Dr. Dylan M. Burns is Assistant Professor of the History of Esotericism in Late Antiquity at the University of Amsterdam. He earned his doctorate in Ancient Christianity at Yale University in 2011, before holding research positions in Copenhagen, Leipzig, and Berlin. Among his books are Apocalypse of the Alien God: Platonism and the Exile of Sethian Gnosticism (2014), Did God Care? Providence, Dualism, and Will in Later Greek and Early Christian Philosophy (2020), and The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codices (2022). Transcript available on the Early Christian Texts website: https://earlychristiantexts.com/what-is-the-nag-hammadi-library/

An Interview with Dr. David Galston Some obvious differences between Plato and Jesus would include the fact that Plato preceded Jesus by three and a half centuries. Jesus was a Jewish teacher; Plato was a Greek philosopher. Plato taught with dialogues; Jesus taught with parables. But they are both figures of wisdom. Both styles are placed in everyday life, and yet both teachers encourage their students to exercise critical thinking and to discover reality beyond the obvious. David Galston is the CEO Executive Director of the Westar Institute, which defines itself as “pursuing honest and rigorous inquiry on the origins and cultural implications of the Christian tradition through critical, collaborative, and cumulative scholarship.” Galston is a theologian and has authored three books: Archives and the Event of God (McGill-Queens Press, 2010), Embracing the Human Jesus (Polebridge Press, 2012), and God’s Human Future (Polebridge Press, 2016). A transcript is available here: https://earlychristiantexts.com/jesus-and-plato/

An Interview with Dr. Andrew Crislip Ancient concepts of bodily functions differ so radically from modernity, we need a basic overview of these beliefs in order to understand both early Christian and non-Christian healing methods. Two competing concepts were viewed as causes for disease: an imbalance of ‘humors’ in the body and an ‘invasion’ of the normally healthy body. Jesus’s approach was addressing invasions, such as demons. By the second-century, thinkers had expanded the idea of illness to a broader sense of evil. Dr. Crislip is Professor of History and Blake Chair in the History of Christianity at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Virginia, where he has taught since 2008. He has written and co-authored numerous books, book sections, and peer-reviewed articles on the subject of health care in antiquity. His articles have appeared in such journals as Interpretation, Harvard Theological Review, Biblica, the Journal of the Bible and Its Reception, and Vigiliae Christianae. Professor Crislip’s current work focuses on Egyptian monasticism, ancient healing traditions, and the history of emotions. He has taught also at the University of Helsinki, Union Presbyterian Seminary, the University of Hawaii at Manoa, and Yale University. He earned his PhD from Yale. A transcript is available here: https://earlychristiantexts.com/healing-in-antiquity/.

An interview with Dr. Samuel Zinner Dr. Samuel Zinner describes the ancient Apocryphon (or Secret Book) of James, then, focusing on two common elements in so-called ‘gnosticism’—the meaning of the demiurge and ascending—he shows how this text does not neatly fit any category. It includes no reference to demiurge, but it does involve a lengthy and unusual description of Jesus, Peter, and James all ascending. Inclusion in the Nag Hammadi collection does not necessarily define something as ‘gnostic,’ as this text illustrates. Zinner is an award-winning author and scholar of Holocaust studies, ecumenism, modern and ancient languages, literature and history, and has been published internationally in a variety of languages by Oxford University Press, de Gruyter, and others. He has contributed articles to Religions Journal and served as peer review referee for several academic journals. He is also a documentary script writer, having worked with Jean-Claude Bragard, the creator of award-winning programs for the BBC. Zinner has collaborated with eminent scholars on the Dead Sea Scrolls and Hebrew scriptures. He's currently an editor for the forthcoming Origins and Applications of Language and Number with contributions from several eminent scholars, and he presents at conferences such as "The Bible and the Qur’an: Comparative Studies” at the Shahid Beshita University in Tehran. His current book that we discuss in this podcast interview is The Apocryphon of James (NHC 1,2), a scholarly work on the text more popularly known as the Secret Book of James.

An Interview with Dr. Amy Jill Levine Amy-Jill Levine, a distinguished New Testament scholar, provides examples of Christian commentators making Jewish practices and beliefs look bad in order to make Jesus look good. A more realistic understanding of these Jewish practices helps us understand Jesus better and understand Judaism more respectfully. Examples of these Jewish beliefs and practices include feminist perspectives, being identified as the Chosen Ones, and stereotypical attitudes about wealth and purity laws. Professor Amy-Jill Levine is the Rabbi Stanley M. Kessler, Distinguished Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies at Hartford International University for Religion and Peace and University Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies America at Vanderbilt. And before that, the Sarah Lawrence Lightfoot Associate Professor of Religion at Swarthmore College. Having grown up in a predominantly Catholic neighborhood and being raised in a Jewish home lays the foundation for her life-long interest in Jewish-Christian relations.

An Interview with John Dominic Crossan Crossan draws on Paul’s life and experience as a devoted Pharisee to understand his insights and expectations for the meaning of resurrection. Unlike the well-known ancient belief in ascension, which was reserved for the near-Godlike humans, Pharisees believed in resurrection for everyone. This was based on a faith in the end time. Paul’s revelation about the resurrection was his realization that Jesus – as Messiah – had begun the general resurrection! He was the first to see Jesus this way.

An Interview with Dr. April DeConick April DeConick theorizes about how gnostic ideas that emerged as a concept in antiquity keep reproducing themselves within different environments. This is one of the things that propelled religion toward its therapeutic aspect and individual relations to God. It came about during the desperate time of harsh Roman occupation, when people felt let down by their gods. Looking for some divine justice, they imagined a new kind of relationship to God, as children of God. Dr. April DeConick holds the Isla Carroll and Percy E. Turner Professorship in New Testament and Early Christianity at Rice University, Department of Religion. She founded and chaired the Mysticism, Esotericism and Gnosticism group and chaired the Nag Hammadi and Gnosticism group in the Society of Biblical Literature. She is most noted for her writing on the Gospel of Judas when she challenged sensationalism generated by the National Geographic Society that wrongly claimed that Judas is a gnostic hero in this text and that his heroics would rewrite our understanding of early Christianity. Her most recent book, The Gnostic New Age, won an award from the Figure Foundation for the best book published by an university press in philosophy and religion. April is the co-founder and executive editor of the academic journal, Gnosis: Journal of Gnostic Studies. The article discussed in this podcast is from this journal and is titled "The Gnostic Imagination and Its Imaginaries." Gnosis 8 (2023) 133-166. Transcript available here: https://earlychristiantexts.com/gnostic-ideas/

An Interview with Dr. Kimberly Bauser McBrien Kimberly Bauser McBrien finds the Secret Book of James to be a humorous critique on the idea of apostolic authority. From our 21-century perspective, it is difficult to decipher the difference between a weird or absurd tale from a clever parody on a serious subject. She argues that this late second century author is taking shots at his contemporaries who gave weight to apostolic credentials through false claims of unity or the experience of temporary ascending. Dr. Kimberly Bauser McBrien is a Lecturer at Trinity University, teaching various courses in New Testament and Early Christian History. Her PhD from Boston College was on social memory theory and the way it helps us understand how the sayings of Jesus were preserved and produced. This podcast is a discussion of her new article in the Journal of Early Christian Studies, titled “A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Third Heaven: Reading the Secret Book of James (NHC I, 2) with a Parodic Imagination,” (Summer 2024 edition). Transcript available here: https://earlychristiantexts.com/apostolic-authority/

An Interview with Dr. Erin Galgay Walsh Macrina was born into a wealthy and historically important Christian family. Her virtuous life, devoted to Christ, was based on her ascetic ideals. That is, she rejected human pleasures and comforts in order to free herself to be fully present to Christ. The 4 century text, The Life of Macrina, which was written by her brother Gregory, describes her as a woman living the angelic life, the" life of the resurrected body." Professor Erin Galgay Walsh teaches at the University of Chicago Divinity School and is a scholar of ancient and late antique Christianity. Her research includes a focus on biblical interpretation, asceticism, and gender. Her courses cover biblical and apocryphal literature, the history of biblical interpretation, embodied practices, and Jews and Christians in Late Antiquity. Find a full transcript on https://earlychristiantexts.com/macrina/

An Interview with Dr. Tony Burke If the Secret Gospel of Mark turns out to be authentic, it could provide important insights into early Christian thought and practices. Popular theory claims it is mere forgery, however, created and circulated due to pro-homosexual motives. Professor Tony Burke explains the origin of the text, its content, the basis for the doubt, and the reasons for his own support of the theory of authenticity. He sees a more mystical interpretation than an erotic one. Dr. Tony Burke is a Professor in the Department of the Humanities at York University in Toronto, where he focuses on the study of Christian biographical literature of the second century, children and the family in Roman antiquity, and extracanonical Jewish and Christian writings. His special interest is the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, and hs book, The Infancy Gospel of Thomas in the Syriac Tradition won the 2018 Frank W. Beare Award for outstanding book in the area of Christian Origins. Tony is the co-founder of the North American Society for the Study of Christian Apocryphal Literature (NASSCAL), and he is editor of Volumes 1, 2, and 3 of the series New Testament Apocrypha: More Noncanonical Scriptures. It is a collection of little-known and never-before-published texts in English translation. Look for a complete summary of the podcast on the Early Christian Texts website. https://earlychristiantexts.com/secret-gospel-mark-real-or-forgery/

An Interview with Dr. David Brakke David Brakke challenges the common notion that Christians had a New Testament type of Bible by around 200. Rather, he claims, their Bible was Jewish scriptures plus a wide variety of written texts by Jesus followers used in multiple contexts. Marcion and his followers would have been the exception, since he rejected the Jewish writings. Brakke’s recent analysis of two ancient Christian texts concludes that the early Christian years were diverse and served different purposes before the biblical canon was established. Irenaeus, the Church Father of the second century, probably set the tone for an approval or disapproval of certain texts. He thought various texts should reflect the rule of faith for that time, and this would have excluded such texts as Valentinian – or so-called gnostic types of writing. On the other hand, Irenaeus was also aware of 'barbarian Christians' who had no text at all. That didn't seem to concern him. Brakke summarizes from his study of the two second-century texts—the Muratorian Fragment and the Secret Book of James—that Christians were very different in antiquity. In 200, people were not interested in asking for a New Testament. They sort of agree on some ancient writings which were very useful, but others not at all.

An interview with Dr. Sarah Parkhouse Dr. Sarah Parkhouse has made a discovery that is quite noteworthy for anyone interested in the Gospel of Mary. One of the hundreds, if not thousands, of small fragments of papyri found in the garbage dump Oxyrhynchus, Egypt, just might be a missing part of the Gospel of Mary. The fragment includes a description of baptism, which is closely related to the ascent of the soul in the portions of the gospel we already have.

An interview with Dr. David Litwa The strange story of Simon in the Bible illustrates the uncomfortable truth that Christianity seems to reinvent itself when it defines itself in opposition to its perceived enemies. In this biblical account, Simon (later called Simon Magus) appears to have been repenting properly from his mistake of offering to pay for the spiritual instructions, when Peter lashed out at him harshly. Litwa thinks the Acts of the Apostles was written many decades after the struggle between Simon of Samaria and Peter, and the author of Acts appears to have used a document known as “Simon and the Great Declaration,” for a source. This earlier Simonian document, written by Simon’s followers, refers to him as Simon Christ, concurring with Simon’s own declaration of his equality with Christ. Such a move would have put him in direct competition with Peter and in opposition to the objectives of the author of Acts to position Peter as the head of the Christian movement.