Cabernet and Pray

Bethany Cseh is a pastor who spent years standing at a pulpit she wasn't sure she was allowed to occupy, internally justifying each sermon as something other than what it actually was. That tension turned out to be the beginning of a longer, stranger education. In this episode, Bethany joins Jeremy to talk about co-pastoring two completely different churches with her husband, what happened when they tried to merge them into one service, and the counterintuitive theology that emerged from the wreckage: that God is revealed more fully through our distinctions than despite them. They also get into merit badge theology, walking as a spiritual practice, and why John Piper is the last person you want picking out a wine for you. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/ZpURVmhmfyc ----------------- My new book, The Edge of the Inside, is now available. You can get a signed copy or in whatever form you prefer: https://www.edgeoftheinside.com/ Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/online-community Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in

Beau Stringer spent years as a lead pastor in evangelical spaces. He's on the other side of that now, working in adult discipleship at one of the largest United Methodist churches in the country and making the case that mainline churches are the best thing most deconstruction-adjacent Christians have never heard of. His image for them: public libraries. Quiet, scattered through communities, not selling anything, full of wisdom, and genuinely open to everyone, including the guy with the shopping cart and all his belongings. In this conversation, Beau and Jeremy dig into how you read the violence of the Old Testament alongside the Sermon on the Mount, why faithfulness sometimes looks like a shrinking church, what happens to a pastor's theology once the job stops limiting his imagination, and why grief might be the most honest response to leaving behind a faith tradition that raised you. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/-oCLLdUojqY ----------------- My new book, The Edge of the Inside, is now available. You can get a signed copy or in whatever form you prefer: https://www.edgeoftheinside.com/ Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in

What does it actually take for a church to be a safe place? Anthony Parrott, co-pastor of Table Church DC, has spent 17 years in ministry and a lifetime accumulating enough theology to know when it stops being honest. In this conversation, he and Jeremy trace a winding path through open and relational theology, trauma competency, why packaging spiritual formation into a program is its own kind of abuse, and what it looks like to pastor a church where the point is not to have it all figured out. Anthony is a guy who will tell you exactly what he thinks about Augustine, John Piper, and a white Malbec he found at Wegmans, and somehow it all fits together. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/4bxba43_Twk ----------------- My new book, The Edge of the Inside, releases March 31. You can get a signed copy or in whatever form you prefer: https://www.edgeoftheinside.com/ Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in

What happens when a former pastor trades the pulpit for a microphone? In this episode, we sit down with Stuart Delony, host of Snarky Faith and author of The Tribulation Survival Guide, for a conversation that is equal parts hilarious and razor-sharp. Stuart unpacks why fear-based theology is basically a drug dealer's business model, how humor functions as a Trojan horse for spiritual healing, and why the end-times obsession that haunted so many evangelical childhoods is, frankly, more pagan than Christian. Pour yourself a glass — the slippery slope has never been this fun. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/nqVuL7BUh0g ----------------- Want to read my upcoming book BEFORE it comes out on March 31, 2026? Be a part of our book launch team and get early access: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/book-launch-page Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in

This week on Cabernet & Pray, we sit down with Collin Packer for a conversation that feels as honest as it is necessary. Collin shares his journey from fundamentalist pastor to working in the Texas State House, from not voting for 12 years out of theological conviction to wrestling with what it means to let “justice take a side.” We talk about racial reconciliation, political discipleship, the cost of speaking prophetically in church spaces, and why some of the best conversations about faith might happen around a table with bread and wine instead of behind a pulpit. This episode offers a hopeful, deeply practical vision of what a Jesus-shaped presence could look like in our cultural chaos. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/MouIpaYlklw ----------------- Want to read my upcoming book BEFORE it comes out on March 31, 2026? Be a part of our book launch team and get early access: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/book-launch-page Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: https://www.instagram.com/collin.b.packer/https://ltrministries.com/

What if the Bible’s most familiar wine stories have been quietly misunderstood all along? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, Jeremy sits down with New Testament scholar John Anthony Dunne, author of The Mountains Shall Drip Sweet Wine, to uncork what Scripture actually says about alcohol. From the wedding at Cana to the myth of “biblical grape juice,” they explore how modern anxieties have flattened a far richer, more embodied faith. Find out why wine was never just a metaphor, but a theological statement about God’s generosity and presence in the ordinary. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/PpMW6yzzJmA ----------------- Want to read my upcoming book BEFORE it comes out on March 31, 2026? Be a part of our book launch team and get early access: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/book-launch-page Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: https://amzn.to/4anM7EV https://www.thetwocities.com/https://www.instagram.com/johnnypepper2/https://www.facebook.com/@johnnypepper2

What happens when someone can no longer believe in God—but still can’t let go of Jesus, Pentecostalism, or the church that formed them? In this episode, Jeremy sits down with Colten Barnaby, who calls himself an “atheist Pentecostal,” to talk honestly about losing faith without losing integrity. They explore church history, certainty vs. honesty, why pretending belief can feel like a moral failure, and how many people leave Christianity not because they hate Jesus, but because God has been presented as a monster. It’s funny, vulnerable, unsettling, and surprisingly hopeful—a conversation for anyone who’s tired of fake answers and still hungry for truth, meaning, and a better imagination for what faith could be. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/I_6YYZKdvtE ----------------- Want to read my upcoming book BEFORE it comes out on March 31, 2026? Be a part of our book launch team and get early access: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/book-launch-page Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: https://www.instagram.com/coltenbarnaby/ https://www.tiktok.com/@coltenbarnabyhttps://www.youtube.com/@coltenbarnaby1https://substack.com/@coltenbarnaby

What if the most sacred spaces in your life aren’t churches at all, but ordinary moments of shared humanity? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, Jeremy sits down with author and spiritual guide Matthew G. Matson to explore Cathedrals of Connection—a vision of faith that shifts holiness away from institutions and back into the space between people. Over a glass of wine, they talk about decentering programs, resisting performative spirituality, and rediscovering God in silence, conversation, parenting, travel, and the everyday rhythms we usually rush past. It’s an honest and gently subversive conversation for anyone who senses that Christianity has lost something vital—and wonders if connection itself might be where the divine has been hiding all along. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/TagcIay1C5Y ----------------- Want to read my upcoming book BEFORE it comes out on March 31, 2026? Be a part of our book launch team and get early access: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/book-launch-page Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in

What comes after deconstruction? In this episode, I sit down with James McGrath to talk about what it looks like to move beyond tearing faith down and begin the slower, braver work of rebuilding it with honesty, humility, and curiosity. We wrestle with Bible scholarship, doubt, certainty, and why faith that looks like Jesus may require fewer answers and more courage. If you’ve ever felt stuck between what you can no longer believe and what you’re not sure you can believe yet, this conversation is an invitation to keep going. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/TGCzj4O5w0g ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: https://amzn.to/3XG2CGE

What if the real spiritual crisis isn’t disagreement, but how we disagree? In this episode, we explore why certainty has replaced curiosity and why faith so often becomes brittle instead of beautiful. We see what happens when winning arguments matters more than loving people. This isn’t a call to “be nicer,” but a challenge to examine how fear shapes our theology and fractures our communities—and whether following Jesus should make us better at holding tension, not worse. This conversation invites you to practice a courage the church desperately needs right now: the courage to differ graciously. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/X7EQxCRjyyM ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: https://brianmclaren.net/https://amzn.to/4qgymys

What if the faith you inherited isn’t the faith you actually want to keep? In this episode, I sit down with David Hayward—yes, the Naked Pastor himself—to talk about the root systems beneath our beliefs, the fruit they produce in real life, and why so many of us feel torn between what we were handed and what we’re becoming. If you’ve ever wondered whether God can survive your questions… or if your questions might actually be the doorway into something truer… this conversation is going to hit you right where you live. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/MmrIOoNqD98 ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: www.nakedpastor.comwww.instagram.com/nakedpastor

What happens when a pastor decides the real mission field isn’t inside the church walls… but somewhere between the pulpit and the pub? In this episode, Gavin Linderman and I dive into the beautifully messy overlap of Anabaptist theology, creativity, and craft beverages. We talk about churches that accidentally turn coffee shops into Christian bookstores with bad espresso, bars that become modern monasteries, and the wild idea that the best conversations about Jesus might happen over a pint rather than in a pew. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/90M13BPuL4A ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: www.projectbanquet.com www.axiomchurchaz.comwww.thecreatecommission.org

What if beauty isn’t something we chase, but something that’s been waiting for us all along? In this episode of Cabernet & Pray, we sit down with author and theologian Diana Butler Bass to talk about what it means to truly live a beautiful year. We discuss how joy, grief, and gratitude can all coexist at the same table. We explore what happens when faith stops being a checklist and starts becoming an experience of wonder again. Watch the episode on video: https://youtu.be/YAd73fCJCoU ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: https://amzn.to/3LmL6Erhttps://dianabutlerbass.substack.com/

What happens when Christianity gets weaponized for political gain? When culture wars hijack the gospel of love? In this episode, we unpack John Fugelsang's book, Separation of Church and Hate, exploring why following Jesus might actually mean breaking up with some forms of Christianity. Pour a glass, lean in, and let’s talk about what it really means to love God and neighbor in an age of outrage. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Save your seat for the AZ Tasting Event on October 27th: https://communionwineco.com/events/az-tasting-event/ Links: Get John's book: https://amzn.to/4qnnyiDJohn's podcast: https://www.johnfugelsang.com/podcast John on Substack: https://johnfugelsang.substack.com/

What if doing the right thing still made you guilty? Dietrich Bonhoeffer believed that following Jesus sometimes meant stepping straight into the mess—into what he called “the fellowship of guilt.” But was he right? In this episode, we grapple with one of the most challenging ethical questions in the Christian narrative: Can faithfulness ever necessitate breaking the rules? Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in

What happens when Christians start rethinking the very idea of hell? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, we sit down with Brian Recker to ask the questions many of us were told we weren’t allowed to ask. Is hell really eternal conscious torment? What about annihilation? Could universalism actually be more faithful to Jesus? And how do history, culture, and scripture all play into the pictures we’ve inherited? We pour a glass of wine, get honest about our doubts, and wrestle with what kind of God we actually believe in. If good theology is theology that looks like Jesus, then what does that mean for our view of hell? If you’ve ever felt the tension between fear-based religion and the radical love of Jesus, this conversation might be the permission you’ve been waiting for. Want to find out why so many Christians are hell-bent on rethinking hell? Listen in. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: Order Brian's book: Hell BentBrian on SubstackBrian on Instagram

What if the shrinking of evangelicalism isn’t a crisis to be feared but an opportunity to rediscover something truer, leaner, and more like Jesus? In this episode, I sit down with author Michelle Van Loon to talk about what’s being lost, what’s worth keeping, and why smaller might actually be better for the future of faith. Grab a glass, pull up a chair, and join us as we explore how downsizing could make room for growth that actually matters. Click here to watch it on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? There's something better waiting for you. Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: Michelle's book DownsizingMichelle's website: michellevanloon.com Michelle's Substack: substack.com/@michellevanloon

What if you’re not the same person you used to be—and that’s exactly the point? In this episode, I explore the strange and beautiful truth that growth requires us to let old versions of ourselves fade away, like water waiting to be turned into wine. From awkward past opinions (yes, I found some of mine in print!) to Taylor Swift lyrics and even a little wisdom from Brian Zahnd and Rob Bell, we’ll talk about what it means to thank yesterday’s “you” and make space for tomorrow’s. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Trying to make sense of faith? Download my free Deconstruction Field Guide. It's a ten-page resource to help you navigate what's next so you don't have to do it alone. https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Get your "pick one" shirt here: https://communion-wine-co.printify.me/product/8311848/wine-shirt-wine-tasting-gifts-for-him-wine-drinking-shirt-wine-lover-christian-wine-shirt-funny-wine-shirt-drinking-shirt

In this episode, we dig into why the most famous command in Christianity has become more of a coffee mug slogan than an actual way of life. We’ll explore how we’ve domesticated Jesus’ radical ethic into something polite and toothless… and what it would take to bring its wild, world-flipping power back. We’ll look at what happens when faith stops being about certainty and starts being about curiosity. Pour a glass, pull up a chair, and let’s talk about how to actually live the thing Jesus said was the point all along. Click here to watch it on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in Links: https://amzn.to/4ouvZbf - Preorder "Reviving the Golden Rule"andrew-decort.com - Andrew's newsletteriffglobal.org - learn more about Andrew's work andrewdecort.substack.com - Andrew's series "Reframe"

What if evil is never as strong as it seems? In this episode of Cabernet and Pray, we wade into the heaviness of the world (child trafficking, genocide, injustice) and wrestle with what it means to have hope in the face of it. We explore a surprising biblical theme that runs throughout the Psalms and the prophets. We consider Bonhoeffer’s call to jam a spoke in the wheel, Brueggemann’s reminder that tyrants fear artists, and the unexpected spiritual significance of South Park. Click here to watch the episode on video. ----------------- Join the online community and get access to exclusive content and experiences: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/patron-sign-ups Do you want to read the Bible without falling behind? I'll send you a PDF to download and use my custom-made reading plan system. There's no way to fall behind on this system and every day will be different no matter how long you use it! https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/opt-in