The Pastor Theologians Podcast

Joel Lawrence sits down with Rich Kidd of Mission Leadership to discuss the changing landscape of pastoral leadership. Drawing from years of experience in executive search and ministry, Kidd reflects on the growing need for shepherds, not just speakers, in ministry today, and the challenges churches face in identifying and supporting healthy leaders. How can churches engage in practices that appropriately vet candidates, build trust with congregations, and prioritize a relational approach to ministry?

A short bonus episode where CPT fellow Joey Sherrard shares discusses St. Augustine's important book, On Christian Teaching.

This episode features a conversation with Joey Sherrard about his new book The Augustinian Pastor, exploring how the life and theology of Augustine can shape modern pastoral ministry. Drawing from his own journey—especially rediscovering Augustine during COVID—Sherrard highlights how Augustine’s work as a hands-on pastor was itself the outworking of and context in which he did his theological reflection. Key themes include the importance of pastoral friendship, the ongoing struggle with pride and sin, and the cultivation of humility through dependence on God. Pastors should see their ordinary work not as a barrier to theological depth, but as the very place where rich, enduring theology is formed.

This episode features a conversation* with Pastor Jonathan Griffiths on his ministry journey—from Toronto to Oxford and Cambridge—and the theological vision behind his book Gathered for Good. The discussion explores the importance of the local church’s physical gathering, especially in a post-COVID context, addressing challenges like disengagement, “fringe” attendance, and the rise of virtual church participation. Griffiths offers pastoral and theological insight into why committed, embodied church life matters and how leaders can cultivate deeper buy-in and discipleship within their congregations. (*Note: This episode was recorded in mid 2025. Some time references may be slightly out of date for this reason.)

A short bonus episode where CPT fellow Matt Erickson shares two formative books for his ministry—Eugene Peterson’s Working the Angles and Tim Keller’s Preaching—highlighting how they shape his approach to prayer, Scripture, pastoral care, and effective preaching.

In this episode of the The CPT Podcast, hosts Zachary Wagner and Joel Lawrence interview Matt Erickson about his path to pastoral ministry and the ideas behind his book The Pastor as Gardener. Erickson shares his conversion in high school, his formation at Wheaton College and Northern Theological Seminary, and how crises in ministry—including COVID-19 and church tensions—pushed him to rethink common leadership models. Drawing on Eugene Peterson and biblical imagery such as 1 Corinthians 3, he argues that pastors should see themselves as “gardeners” who cultivate conditions for growth while trusting God to produce the fruit, emphasizing spiritual formation, shared ministry, and long-term hope.

In this final episode of the Preaching in the Pastor-Theologian series, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim are joined by Nicole Martin—pastor, preacher, and President/CEO of Christianity Today—for a wide-ranging conversation that brings the series’ central themes into sharp focus. Drawing on her own preaching journey and her book Nailing It, Martin reflects on preaching as a theological act of proclamation rather than performance, emphasizing surrender, simplicity, and a God-centered vision of the pulpit. Together, they explore the difference between preaching and teaching, the dangers of human-centered and culturally driven sermons, and the urgent need for theological formation shaped by the cross rather than triumphalism. The episode closes with a candid and pastoral word to preachers: true faithfulness lies not in success or spectacle, but in dying to self, trusting the sufficiency of God’s grace, and letting the Word of God do its work among a listening church—and a listening preacher. Living Church - Awe and Presence

In this episode, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim welcome Todd Still, Delancey Dean and Professor of Christian Scriptures at Truett Seminary, for a rich conversation on theological education and the formation of preachers. Drawing on his own journey as a pastor, scholar, and dean, Still articulates a layered theological vision for preaching—rooted in the grand narrative of Scripture, shaped by evangelical and Baptist convictions, and deeply informed by Pauline theology. Together, the hosts and guest explore the vocation of the pastor theologian, the necessity of rigorous theological study for faithful proclamation, and the dangers of thin, topic-driven preaching detached from Scripture. The conversation also addresses the role seminaries play in forming preachers, the importance of uniting substance and style, and the need for preaching that aims at discipleship and Christlike formation. The episode concludes with an extended discussion of Truett Seminary’s PhD in Preaching, highlighting its commitment to forming scholar-pastors who can serve both the church and the academy for the long haul. Living Church - Awe and Presence

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with CPT Fellow Dan Brendsel about preaching in an age shaped by social media, attention economics, and artificial intelligence, exploring how technology subtly reinforces idolatry and the illusion of control. Brendsel argues that preaching should resist catering to diminished attention spans and instead cultivate prayerful attentiveness to God, framing preaching as God’s address to a listening community rather than a performance or content delivery optimized by technique or AI. Drawing on thinkers like Neil Postman, C. S. Lewis, and Oliver O’Donovan, he emphasizes improvisation, dependence on the Spirit, and the irreplaceable “occasion” of preaching—something no algorithm can anticipate. The conversation challenges pastors to examine how technology forms both preachers and congregations, calling them back to trust in the Word, embodied listening, and a posture of humble submission rather than technological mastery. Living Church - Awe and Presence

In this episode, Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim talk with pastor, lawyer, theologian Dr. K. Edward Copeland about how the gospel shapes the church’s engagement with today’s social and political tensions. Ed shares his unique journey—from overcoming a childhood speech impediment to decades of ministry and justice work—and offers a compelling vision of the gospel as God’s reconciling work for people, systems, and the whole cosmos. Drawing on the African American preaching tradition and the posture of exile, he explains how preaching can form Christians who discern cultural idols, process societal events theologically, and live faithfully amid fractured times. The result is a conversation full of wisdom, hope, and clarity for pastors and congregations navigating the complexities of modern life. Living Church - Awe and Presence

In this conversation, hosts Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Gerald Hiestand—senior pastor of Calvary Memorial Church and co-founder of the Center for Pastor Theologians—about cultural intelligence and the work of preaching. Drawing from his ministry in the diverse and politically complex context of Oak Park, Illinois, Gerald describes the challenges and opportunities of engaging culture thoughtfully from the pulpit. He reflects on how pastors can understand the visible and invisible layers of culture, avoid the “ditches” on either side of cultural and political extremes, and use cultural “types” as pathways that point people toward the gospel. The discussion explores how preaching can form a theological vision of culture, how to love congregations well by understanding their varied backgrounds, and how pastors can navigate political tensions with a Christ-centered framework. Gerald also shares personal reflections on growing in pastoral confidence, learning to give clearer admonition with less scaffolding, and shepherding faithfully through turbulent cultural seasons. Living Church - Awe and Presence

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim talk with Ahmi Lee about her vision for preaching as participation in God’s “grand drama.” Drawing from her global upbringing, pastoral experience, and theological training, Lee explains how preaching should bridge text-centered and reader-centered approaches by rooting sermons in the sweeping biblical narrative while remaining attentive to the lived experiences of listeners. She argues that preaching is ultimately a doxological act—first for God, then for the church, and still welcoming to those exploring faith. The hosts and Lee discuss the purpose of preaching, the role of the congregation as active listeners, the need for holistic and integrated biblical formation, and how preachers can engage diverse audiences. Lee closes by reflecting on how God is teaching her to trust Him more deeply amid a restless and chaotic world. Living Church - Awe and Presence

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Anglican priest and theologian Jonathan Bailes about the deep connection between preaching, discipleship, and the daily life of the church. Bailes reflects on the formative role of preaching within a liturgical tradition, emphasizing that the sermon is not commentary on current events but an encounter with the living voice of God that continually calls the church to remembrance amid spiritual forgetfulness. Drawing on Scripture, church history, and pastoral experience, he argues that discipleship is shaped less by novelty and more by steady saturation in God’s Word—through preaching, liturgy, and practices that help Christians hear, understand, and be formed by Scripture. The conversation ultimately invites pastors to reclaim confidence in the simple, repeated proclamation of the gospel as the heart of Christian formation. Living Church - Awe and Presence

Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim speak with Paul Hoffman, senior pastor of Evangelical Friends Church in Newport, Rhode Island, about his ministry journey and upcoming transition to a faculty role at Samford University. The conversation centers on the book Preaching to a Divided Nation, coauthored by Hoffman and Kim, exploring how pastors can preach for reconciliation amid cultural, political, and racial divisions. Together, they discuss the theological foundations of unity, the “four isms” that divide the church, the importance of empathy and storytelling in pastoral ministry, and how preaching forms Christian identity. Hoffman also reflects on listening as a spiritual discipline, cultivating a “non-anxious presence,” and embracing the call to be ambassadors of reconciliation in a fractured world. Living Church - Awe and Presence

CPT fellow and senior pastor of Calvary Church in Grand Rapids, Jim Samra joins Joel Lawrence and Matt Kim for episode two of Preaching and the Pastor Theologian. Living Church - Awe and Presence

Listen now to Episode 1 of our new miniseries, "Preaching and the Pastor Theologian." Joel Lawrence is joined by guest cohost, CPT Fellow Matthew Kim, for a conversation with Kimlyn Bender. Living Church - Awe and Presence

CPT Manager of Church Programs, Steve Williamson, joins Zach and Joel to discuss this year's slate of cohorts for church leaders, exploring ecclesial identity, the arts, and cultural apologetics. Learn more and apply at: https://www.pastortheologians.co/identity-cohort and https://www.pastortheologians.co/learningcohorts Living Church - Awe and Presence

In this episode of the CPT Podcast, Zach Wagner and Joel Lawrence talk with CPT fellow Joey Sherrard, discipleship pastor at Signal Mountain Presbyterian Church. Joey shares his story of coming to faith, studying theology at Rhodes, Duke, and St. Andrews, and discerning his calling as a pastor-theologian. He reflects on the influence of mentors, the challenges of growing up in a non-Christian home, and how thinkers like Augustine and T.F. Torrance shape his ministry today—including a preview of his forthcoming book The Augustinian Pastor (March 2026). Living Church - Awe and Presence

Shaun Brown, senior minister at Rocky Mount Christian Church and a fellow in the St. Hildegard Fellowship, joins the podcast to explore his journey through the Stone-Campbell movement, academic theology, and vocational ministry. Shaun shares how his faith was shaped by early experiences in church and Christian education, ultimately leading him from Bible college to a PhD program at Wycliffe College in Toronto, where he focused on the theology of George Lindbeck. The conversation highlights Shaun's transition from aspiring professor to pastor theologian, the theological distinctives of the Stone-Campbell tradition—particularly regarding baptism—and how his academic training now informs his preaching, pastoral leadership, and ongoing scholarship. Living Church - Awe and Presence

Amy Peeler for a rich conversation exploring pastoral identity, theological formation, and the upcoming Pastor Theologians Conference, Good Shepherds: Pastoral Identity and the Future of the Church. Amy shares insights from her latest projects—including a forthcoming book on Ordinary Time and an in-depth study of Paul’s use of birth and incarnation language—while reflecting on her own pastoral journey and the people who have shepherded her well. The discussion dives into the challenges of pastoral isolation, the necessity of relational connection in ministry, and the transformative power of vulnerability and shared learning. Living Church - Awe and Presence