Tuesdays with Merton Podcast

This presentation examines how Thomas Merton and Howard Thurman each offer distinct yet related perspectives on mystical anthropology. It brings Thurman’s “search for common ground” into conversation with Thomas Merton’s account of the “true self.” While Thurman asks how oppressed communities can remain spiritually alive amid racism, poverty, and political terror, Merton confronts the “false self” constructed by egoism, consumerism, nationalism, and approval addiction. Though writing from different social locations, both identify fear as the central force distorting human identity and turn to contemplation as a practice of re-humanization. By grounding the self in divine depth rather than social scripts, they offer complementary resources for resisting internalized oppression across the color line. Byron D. Wratee was born and raised in Kingstree, South Carolina, a rural town in South Carolina’s Gullah-Geechee corridor. Dr. Wratee worked as a lawyer and political activist before becoming a theologian. His family has a long tradition of military service, so he decided to serve briefly. He deployed in 2011 to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom as a combat medic. Dr. Wratee discerned the call to become a theologian during his tour in Afghanistan. A lifelong musician, Dr. Wratee served as a pastoral musician and liturgist in several churches. He also ministers as a lay preacher and has preached at churches in multiple denominations. Byron currently teaches in the theology and religious studies department at Villanova University.

John Dickerson is a journalist, author, and longtime interviewer, most recently co-anchor of the CBS Evening News and chief political analyst for CBS News. He spent 16 years at CBS, where he also served as senior national correspondent, contributor to CBS News Sunday Morning, and previously co-host of CBS This Morning. From 2015 to 2018, he moderated Face the Nation and served as the network’s chief Washington correspondent. During the 2016 presidential campaign, he moderated two CBS presidential debates. From 2019 to 2021, he was a correspondent for 60 Minutes, where his story on the death of Elijah McClain was nominated for an Emmy. He resigned from CBS News in December 2025. In addition to his political reporting, Dickerson is known for his in-depth interviews with figures ranging from Apple CEO Tim Cook to actors Glenda Jackson and Christian Bale; authors Colson Whitehead, Michael Lewis, and Tara Westover; and musicians John Prine, Jon Batiste, Jason Isbell, and Dave Matthews. Dickerson is a contributing writer at The Atlantic and for 20 years has been a co-host of Slate’s Political Gabfest. He also hosts Whistlestop, a podcast on presidential history, and Navel Gazing, drawn from his 35 years of notebooks he carries with him. He began his career at Time magazine, covering economics, Congress, and national politics, and spent four years as its White House correspondent. From 2005 to 2015, he was Slate’s chief political correspondent. He has covered nine presidential campaigns. Dickerson is the author of On Her Trail (Simon & Schuster); the New York Times bestseller Whistlestop: My Favorite Stories from Presidential Campaign History (Twelve Books); and The Hardest Job in the World: The American Presidency (Random House). He has received the Ford Prize for Distinguished Reporting on the Presidency, the David Broder Award for political reporting, and in 2025, the Walter Cronkite Award for Excellence in TV Political Journalism for his essays. A native Washingtonian, Dickerson graduated with distinction from the University of Virginia with a degree in English and American Studies. He lives in New York City where he serves on the board of Covenant House International. See future programs and register to join a future discussion live at: https://merton.org/twm/

What kind of economic system might Thomas Merton advocate? What principles would it be based on and how would it differ from what we see in the United States, or Sweden, or China, or Cuba? Answering these questions requires developing the negatives. Merton's writings are full of critiques of capitalism and its voracious appetites, its obsession with technology, its triviality and tricks, its relationship to the war machine, and its degradation of humans in pursuit of profit. Merton also critiques communism and its materialism, its obsession with technology, its relationship to the war machine, its degradation of humans in pursuit of production, and its repression of individual freedoms. In this talk, Megan Way will attempt to develop Merton's negatives into an imagined picture of a more "Mertonian" type of economic system, and will ask the participants to lend their imaginations and insights from Merton to this process. Megan Way, PhD. is an Associate Professor of Economics at Babson College in Wellesley, MA. She teaches both undergraduate and graduate business students, and her research spans several areas, including family economics, ecological economics, socio-ecological systems and most recently, spiritual leaders and economic ideals. Megan completed the Living School at the Center for Action and Contemplation in Albuquerque, NM, in 2021. She and her husband Rob have four grown children, and live on Cape Cod. See future programs and register to join a future discussion live at: https://merton.org/twm/

One year after Thomas Merton's passing, the Black American liberation theologian James Cone published Black Theology and Black Power, a reflection on the Black Power movement of the 1960s and the central role that liberation plays in the Christian gospel. As we know, Merton dedicated significant effort considering U.S. race relations broadly and the Black Power Movement specifically as evidenced by an entire chapter in his book Faith and Violence, entitled “From Non-violence to Black Power” but what we don't know is if the two ever met in person. Nonetheless, Merton and Cone inhabited proximate theological and physical geography at pivotal moments in their thinking and praxis (Corpus Christi, the church where Merton was baptized, and Union Theological Seminary, where James Cone taught and wrote, share an intersection). By putting Merton and Cone into conversation with each other, we grasp a deeper understanding of how contemplative practice lends itself to liberation on the margins. If God is Black, then silence is God’s first language. As a pastor, theologian, and faith-based community organizer, Jordan Jones is interested in exploring what role contemplation has in the Black Radical Tradition by way of building and cultivating Beloved "fugitive" communities. This was his focus as a seminarian at Union Theological Seminary and continues to be as an associate pastor at Metro Hope Church in East Harlem, New York where he lives and also works as a barista. Jordan was a recent member of the 205 Sojourners Journalism Cohort and a clergy fellow with FASPE (Fellowships at Auschwitz for the Study of Professional Ethics). Prior to moving to New York City for seminary, Jordan lived in Medellín, Colombia, as a Fulbright scholar and journalist. A native to Atlanta and graduate from Morehouse College, Jordan is an avid jazz listener and amateur salsa dancer. He is currently seeking ordination with the Disciples of Christ and plans to pursue doctoral work in the near future. See future programs and register to join a future discussion live at: https://merton.org/twm/

JUDITH VALENTE - In Their Own Words: The Monks Who Knew Merton. There are only a few remaining monks at the Abbey of Gethsemani who knew Thomas Merton personally. One is now 103 years old. ITMS President (2023-2025) Judith Valente spent time interviewing those monks about their encounters with Merton. Their memories are vivid and entertaining. Not surprisingly, Merton remains a complex figure for many of them. They talk frankly about his relationship with M. and his fierce opposition to the abbey's mail order businesses, but also his ability to relate to struggling monks, his humor, and his capacity to admit a mistake. The monks also share memories of those fateful days after Merton's body was returned from Bangkok and his brothers had to bring him to his final rest. Judith Valente worked as a staff writer for The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal and as an on-air correspondent for national PBS-TV, Chicago Public Radio and GLT Radio, the National Public Radio affiliate in central Illinois where she lives. She is the author of three collections of poetry and six spirituality books, including How to Live: What The Rule of St. Benedict Teaches Us about Happiness, Meaning and Community, and The Art of Pausing: Meditations for the Overworked and Overwhelmed and How to Be: A Monk & A Journalist Reflect on Living & Dying, Purpose & Prayer, Friendship & Forgiveness, the latter two co-authored with Brother Paul Quenon of the Abbey of Gethsemani. She guides retreats around the country on how to live a more contemplative life in the secular world and leads an annual Benedictine Footprints contemplative, cultural, culinary pilgrimage/retreat in Italy, which offers a "slow tourism" experience of Italian life and lesser-known Benedictine sites. Her latest book is The Italian Soul: How To Savor the Full Joys of Life, based on what she has learned from her many stays in Italy about living more joyfully and mindfully.

In the nineteen sixties, finding a cloistered monk in Protestant spaces was unexpected. We will look at Merton's influence in Protestant culture, then extend our exploration into other unexpected and marginal places, including punk and hardcore engagements with Merton, and imagining Merton as an urban character. Viewing Merton through an alternative lens can encourage us to see Merton reaching further than we might expect or even be comfortable with. Harley Dean Mathews is associate pastor of First United Methodist Church in Victoria, Texas. Harley is married to Amanda Mathews, an artist. Harley has a background in multi-faith dialogue, mysticism, nonviolence, creative contemplation and the underground music scene. See future programs and register to join the discussion live at: https://merton.org/twm/

In the fifty years since Dr. Raymond Moody’s 1975 landmark publication, Life After Life, modern research into the phenomena of Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) and related studies in consciousness have flourished. Among the cross-disciplinary approaches to this burgeoning field, there is an unnamed question emerging: At what point do we shift from an emphasis on seeking scientific evidence in support of the veracity of NDEs to an exploration of whether NDEs might themselves contribute to a deeper understanding of perennial spiritual experience? While clearly this will not be a uniform development across disciplines, my presentation seeks to make this leap by exploring Thomas Merton’s breathtaking description of the quietud sabrosa (“delicious tranquility”) in light of NDEs. (Cf. New Seeds of Contemplation, Chpt. 38: “Pure Love,” 275-289). Indeed, much of what Merton describes here has an uncanny resonance with reports by some who have had remembered experiences during their time of clinical death. I will suggest then, that the model of consciousness (namely, “Idealism”) that best supports the phenomena of NDEs might likewise be marshalled to provide deeper insights into what is unfolding interiorly in experiences of infused contemplation such as Merton describes as a quietud sabrosa. Father Vincent Pizzuto, Ph.D. is Professor of New Testament Studies and Christian Mysticism in the Department of Theology and Religious Studies at the University of San Francisco and serves as Vicar of St. Columba's Episcopal Church and Contemplative Center in Inverness, CA. Working for the advancement of contemplative Christianity, he has reinvigorated the mission and ministry of St. Columba’s through the introduction of contemplative eucharistic liturgies, contemplative residency programs, online courses, directed retreats, sermon podcasts, and an online blog, among other initiatives. In 2018 he published his second book, Contemplating Christ: The Gospels and the Interior Life, with Liturgical Press, released in Spanish, Contemplar a Cristo: Los Evangelios y la vida interior, in January 2022 by Desclée de Brouwer. A Chinese translation is underway with Kuang Chi Culture, Taiwan. He is currently working on his next book project on studies in consciousness and Christian Spirituality.

In this presentation, Ryan Bell explores how Thomas Merton had a profound influence on the life of Raymond Hunthausen, the high-profile, boundary-pushing Archbishop of Seattle from 1975 to 1991. While the two scions of the post-Vatican II American Catholic Church never met, Merton’s writings on peace and justice spurred Hunthausen to begin a series of headline- grabbing protests against nuclear arms, racism, and sexism. Ryan outlines how Merton’s influence on Hunthausen turned the archbishop into a modern prophet within an increasingly polarized American Catholic Church. Ryan Bell is a recent graduate of the University of Denver and a professed Benedictine Oblate at Benet Hill Monastery in Colorado Springs, Colorado. He was a Daggy Scholar at the 2023 ITMS meeting at St. Mary’s College.

The following is a plenary presentation from the 19th General Meeting of the International Thomas Merton Society, Regis University, Denver, Colorado, delivered on June 21, 2025. Estevan Rael-Gálvez is the director of Native Bound-Unbound, a Mellon Foundation sponsored digital humanities project centered on the millions of indigenous people whose lives were and have been shaped by enslavement. Dr. Rael-Gálvez, anthropologist, historian, and Indigenous slavery scholar, has served as the state historian of New Mexico, the executive director of the National Hispanic Cultural Center, and senior vice president of historic sites at the National Trust for Historic Preservation. He has participated in public history and digital history projects involving communities linked to Mt. Taylor, Girl Scouts USA, Santa Fe, and many other broad, vast and important projects in public memory and public storytelling and narrative-making.

The following is a plenary presentation from the 19th General Meeting of the International Thomas Merton Society, Regis University, Denver, Colorado, delivered on June 20, 2025. Susan Reynolds is a theologian and ethnographer whose first book, People Get Ready, received the 2024 Best Book Award by the College Theology Society. Reynolds is an assistant professor of Catholic Studies at Emory University’s Candler School of Theology in Atlanta, GA, and is a contributing writer for Commonweal magazine. Originally from Denver, CO, she writes often on themes of ritual, community, and place.

This talk is about two men of the twentieth century, giants in their own right, the monk Thomas Merton and the Beat writer Jack Kerouac who as Roman Catholics studied Zen Buddhism. Both had a great deal common: Celtic ancestry, students at Columbia University, grounded in a spirituality of nature and a love of animals that reflected their respect for all sensate creatures. Both too had a dark side, prone to depression, struggling with sanity, even suicide at times. This talk discusses their similarities and differences, focusing upon their satori experiences, a Zen term for awakenings, epiphanies, enlightenment. Ed Sellner, Ph.D., is professor emeritus in theology and spirituality at Saint Catherine University in St Paul, Minnesota, where he taught and administered programs for 35 years. A graduate of the University of Notre Dame, he is author of numerous books on Celtic spirituality, western and eastern monasticism, and animal theology. Ed is also a spiritual director, trained at the Jung Institute in Zurich, Switzerland.

Becky McIntyre and Sarah Fuller discuss their art and experiences as artists working in religious and social justice movements, particularly the Catholic Worker movement. They will discuss intersections of faith, resistance, creativity and justice in their own life histories and artistic practices. They discuss examples of their art, and discuss ways in which the art and work of Thomas Merton touches on their own artistic practices. Becky McIntyre is a community artist, printmaker, and muralist in Philadelphia, currently living as an artist in residence at St. Raphaela Center in Haverford, PA. She regularly creates the cover art for the Los Angeles Catholic Worker newspaper, is a community muralist who worked as Chief of Operations, project manager, and artist for Walls for Justice, and is the visual artist for the Synodality in Catholic Higher Education in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia (SCHEAP) project. Her website is www.sanaartista.com. Sarah Fuller is a printmaker in Ventura, California, who creates art for the Catholic Worker movement. She was an Artist in Residence at the Bartimaeus Kinsler Institute in 2023. She has had art published in magazines, books, and Catholic Worker newsletters and newspapers. Her most recent book illustration project was for The Anabaptist Community Bible project with MennoMedia. Her website is www.sarahfullerart.com.

Annual Fourth & Walnut Lecture, 2025 with James Finley Being A Healing Presence in a Wounded & Traumatized World James Finley Ph.D. lived as a monk at the cloistered Trappist monastery of the Abbey of Gethsemani in Kentucky, where the world-renowned monk and author, Thomas Merton, was his spiritual director. James Finley leads retreats and workshops throughout the United States and Canada, attracting men and women from all religious traditions who seek to live a contemplative way of life in the midst of today's busy world. He is also a clinical psychologist in private practice in Santa Monica, California. James Finley is the author of: The Healing Path: A Memoir and an Invitation, Merton's Palace of Nowhere, The Contemplative Heart and Christian Meditation: Experiencing the Presence of God.

In this presentation to celebrate the launch of the Catholic Institute for Nonviolence in Rome in September 2024, Sojourners senior editor Rose Marie Berger reflects on what led up to the launch of the Institute, what moral and theological questions top the Institute's research agenda, and what comes next for this tremendous new resource available to the global Church and beyond. Merton's own thinking and prayer on war and peace opened the way for the maturing of Catholic nonviolence as it is understood today. The launch of the Catholic Institute for Nonviolence is another dynamic experiment in Merton's thoughts on how the Church's "wars are fought without any weapons at all." Rose Marie Berger is a Catholic peace activist and poet. She is senior editor at Sojourners magazine, an ecumenical Christian magazine promoting faith and social justice, where she has worked since 1986. Rose’s work in Christian nonviolence has taken her to conflict zones around the world. She is active in the Catholic Nonviolence Initiative, a project of Pax Christi International, and served as co-editor for Advancing Nonviolence and Just Peace in the Church and the World, the fruit of a multiyear, global, participatory process to deepen Catholic understanding of and commitment to Gospel nonviolence. She serves on the board of The International Thomas Merton Society.

An excerpt from Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander lives as permanently as can be on the door entering the dining room in Maryhouse, one of the New York Catholic Worker houses of hospitality. In this personal talk, I hope to explore what it meant to read Merton in the context of living at a Catholic Worker house, and how I believe the Worker and Merton hold the tension of guilt and faithful living in a world inundated with violence. Abbi Fraser, the child of two Protestant pastors, got her BA in Public Affairs from UCLA and instantly dove into the world of the Catholic Worker. Abbi loves talking about God and finds Them most in her friends, protests, and the park.

In this presentation on the anniversary of Thomas Merton’s death, iconographer Fr. Bill McNichols and theologian Christopher Pramuk reflect on the power of sacred art to quicken the hope of Advent in our hearts, and to bring the creativity and courage of love into “this demented inn,” where Christ “has come uninvited.” Their book together, All My Eyes See: The Artistic Vocation of Fr. William Hart McNichols, has been described as “incandescent,” an “intimate conversation between two soul friends,” which “not only preserves the legacy of a hidden master, but also contributes to the awakening of the world.” Ordained in 1979, Fr. William Hart McNichols was a member of the Society of Jesus from 1968-2002. He received a Master of Fine Arts from the Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, NY, and from 1983 to 1990 he worked in AIDS hospice ministry in Manhattan, while continuing to paint and illustrating many children’s books. In 1990 he moved to Albuquerque, NM, to study with master iconographer Br. Robert Lentz; he continues to serve the people of God as a priest in northern New Mexico. Christopher Pramuk is Regis University Chair of Ignatian Thought and Imagination, and professor of theology at Regis University, Denver, CO. A past President of the ITMS, his seven books include two award-winning studies of Thomas Merton, the first of which sparked his long friendship with Fr. Bill.

The consistent ethic of life is a fully Catholic engagement with the difficult challenges that conscience encounters in our time. Now in this challenging, divided moment is the right time to re-discover the consistent ethic and adopt an attitude that calls us to partisans for life beyond our partisanship. Steven P. Millies is professor of public theology and director of The Bernardin Center at Catholic Theological Union in Chicago. His most recent books include A Consistent Ethic of Life: Navigating Catholic Engagement with U.S. Politics and Good Intentions: A History of Catholic Voters’ Road from Roe to Trump (Liturgical Press, 2018).

Gray Matthews, assistant professor of Communication at the University of Memphis, Memphis TN, has served the International Thomas Merton Society as a member of the Board, co-editor of The Merton Annual, coordinator of the 2007 ITMS conference, as well as coordinator of the Memphis ITMS Chapter since 2001. Gray has been a frequent presenter at ITMS conferences and recently authored an exploratory essay on Merton and decolonial issues of contemplative concern. This Presentation is a thought experiment in deep responsiveness. The question of contemplation—in a world of action that is deteriorating into a frantic order of hyper-activity, brutal re-activism, and paralyzed strategies of inaction—begs for a pause to deliberately rethink and reimagine the nature of not only the practice of contemplation, but the contemplative nature of life itself. Given a diet of crises, catastrophes, and collapses, there is a tradition of self-deadening retreat from the maddening order of noise in order to seek rest in the privileged shelter of false tranquility. Instead of an orderly evasion of grief, I think our suffering world is calling for contemplative mayhem in responsive depth .

Thomas Merton and Dorothy Day championed social justice witness informed by deep contemplative practice. Their powerful example amid the crises of the 1960s can provide us with insights as we seek to respond with integrity to today’s seemingly unprecedented crises. Julie Leininger Pycior will invite your reflections on these themes as revealed in her prize-winning book Dorothy Day, Thomas Merton, and the Greatest Commandment: Radical Love in Times of Crisis. She also will share how research for this book was instrumental in Pope Francis choosing Merton and Day as the two spiritual figures to spotlight in his historic address to Congress. Julie Leininger Pycior, Professor of History Emeritus, Manhattan College, is the author of four books and has published articles in a number of journals, including The Merton Annual. She lectures widely and is regularly quoted in the media. Her PhD is from the University of Notre Dame and she is a longtime member of the Corpus Christi/New York City chapter of the International Thomas Merton Society.

David M. Odorisio, PhD, is Co-Chair and Associate Core Faculty at Pacifica Graduate Institute, Santa Barbara, CA. David received his MA in the History of Christian Spirituality from Saint John's University, School of Theology-Seminary (Collegeville, MN), and his PhD in East-West Psychology from the California Institute of Integral Studies (San Francisco, CA). David is editor of Thomas Merton in California: The Redwoods Conferences and Letters (Liturgical Press, 2024), and Merton & Hinduism: The Yoga of the Heart (Fons Vitae, 2021) and has published in The Merton Seasonal and The Merton Annual. In 1968, Thomas Merton offered several conferences at Our Lady of the Redwoods Abbey, a Cistercian women’s community in Northern California. The material presented in these talks reveals Merton’s wide-ranging intellectual and spiritual pursuits in the final year of his life. This accessible presentation explores Merton’s pilgrimage to California’s remote and rugged “Lost Coast” and unpacks this treasure trove of previously unpublished material. Covering a variety of topics including approaches to modern consciousness, yoga, Sufism, and inter-religious dialogue, Thomas Merton in California fills a long-standing lacuna around Merton's visits to Redwoods Monastery and forms an essential bridge to the Asian journey that was to come.