Cosmosis [Formerly The UFO Rabbit Hole]

In this episode, Kelly and Jay recount an extraordinary night at the International Remote Viewing Association conference in Cloudcroft, New Mexico—one that began as a simple group experiment in spoon bending and ended with a display of unexplained aerial activity over the nearby White Sands Missile Range. As dozens of participants focused their attention around a bonfire, cutlery softened and twisted in their hands—just as amber lights began moving across the desert sky in ways that defied conventional motion. The synchronicity between the two events raised unsettling questions about consciousness, matter, and the possible feedback loop between human intention and the phenomenon itself. Kelly and Jay examine that night moment by moment, reflecting on its implications for remote viewing, psychokinesis, and the broader study of anomalous events. Along the way, they discuss: The history of spoon bending and PK (psychokinesis) experiments, from Jack Houck’s “PK parties” to government research programs. The atmosphere and experiments at the IRVA conference, including conversations with legendary remote viewers like Lyn Buchanan, Paul H. Smith, and Dale Graff The simultaneous UAP activity observed near White Sands and its uncanny timing with the group’s collective experiment How belief, skepticism, and shared attention can shape reality—and why documenting the anomalous is never just about evidence, but about participation. This episode invites listeners to consider the possibility that consciousness is not a passive observer of the world—but an active participant in its unfolding. Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio. ✨ Join the conversation and go deeper: Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality: https://www.cosmosis.media/ Join the Patreon: https://cosmosiscommunity.com Subscribe to Cosmosis: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow Cosmosis X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117 Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 04:17 Post-IRVA Conference Reflections 06:00 Deep Dive into Remote Viewing 17:34 Spoon Bending Experience and Online Reactions 35:22 Reflecting on Subjective Realities 36:53 Experiencers and Intellectual Humility 38:29 The Private Nature of Extraordinary Moments 41:15 The Challenge of Filming Personal Experiences 52:45 Skepticism and UFO Phenomena 01:04:46 The Magic of Field Work 01:06:54 Upcoming Projects and Community Engagement Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special episode of Cosmosis, Kelly and Jay return from the International Remote Viewing Association Conference in Cloudcroft, New Mexico—where they spent a week immersed in the world of psychic espionage, anomalous perception, and frontier consciousness research. Surrounded by legends like Lyn Buchanan, Dale Graff, and Paul H. Smith, they were reminded of what drew them to this mystery in the first place: the humbling realization that reality is far stranger, and far more beautiful, than we imagine. Recorded live at the IRVA conference, this episode features a captivating talk from Paul H. Smith, retired U.S. Army Major and one of the original remote viewers from the Stargate Program—America’s once-classified psychic espionage unit. Smith traces the deep and tangled relationship between UFOs and remote viewing, revealing how intelligence operatives and scientists like Ingo Swann, Hal Puthoff, and Pat Price used psychic perception to probe the mysteries of the phenomenon. From secret lunar targets and underground bases to the blurred boundary between consciousness and the unknown, Smith’s stories bridge Cold War history and the edges of human perception. Whether you’re new to remote viewing or steeped in its lore, this episode offers a rare, firsthand perspective from one of the few who lived it. Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio. ✨ Join the conversation and go deeper: Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media Resources & References The Essential Guide to Remote Viewing: The Secret Military Remote Perception Skill Anyone Can Learn, Paul H. Smith:https://a.co/d/ge6aBnR Reading the Enemy's Mind: Inside Star Gate, Paul H. Smith:https://a.co/d/gtWR9vv Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality: https://www.cosmosis.media/ Join the Patreon: https://cosmosiscommunity.com Subscribe to Cosmosis: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow Cosmosis X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117 Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 03:35 Special Talk by Paul H. Smith 06:10 Remote Viewing and UFOs: Promises and Pitfalls 08:43 The Stargate Program: A Deep Dive 15:38 Military Remote Viewing Operations 17:24 Notable Figures in Remote Viewing and UFO Research 26:55 Pat Price's Alien Base Discoveries 28:36 Pat Price's Remote Viewing Accuracy 30:35 Discovering UFO Bases 32:53 Project 8024: Government Remote Viewing of UFOs 41:19 Challenges and Value of Remote Viewing 44:40 Remote Viewing the Moon 51:59 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Kelly and Jay revisit the groundbreaking work of John Keel, one of the most influential and controversial figures in UFO history. Known for Operation Trojan Horse and The Mothman Prophecies, Keel pushed beyond the limits of conventional ufology to propose ideas that remain provocative more than 50 years later. They explore both the human story of Keel—the journalist, traveler, and relentless investigator—and the radical frameworks he left behind for making sense of high strangeness. Along the way, Kelly and Jay connect Keel’s legacy to today’s debates, government narratives, and their own upcoming fieldwork. Highlights include: Keel’s unique approach: using news clipping services and personal witness interviews to identify patterns across thousands of reports. His skepticism toward the extraterrestrial hypothesis and why he suspected UFOs were closer to home than another planet. The “paraphysical hypothesis” and Keel’s concept of the super-spectrum, where UFOs and entities may be part of a hidden ecology overlapping our own. Insights into window areas—locations where high strangeness clusters—and how this connects to modern hotspots. The role of storytelling, control mechanisms, and myth-making in shaping how humanity perceives the phenomenon. Why Keel’s outsider perspective continues to challenge both researchers and experiencers today. Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio. ✨ Join the conversation and go deeper: Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media Resources & References Operation Trojan Horse, John Keel:https://www.amazon.com/Operation-Trojan-Horse-Classic-Breakthrough/dp/1938398033/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0 Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality: https://www.cosmosis.media/ Join the Patreon: https://cosmosiscommunity.com Subscribe to Cosmosis: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow Cosmosis X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117 Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 05:54 John Keel's Background and Early Career 09:38 Keel's Investigative Approach and Findings 13:40 Skepticism and the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis 20:08 Patterns in UFO Sightings and Flaps 33:38 Regional UFO Flaps and Media Coverage 35:19 Contemporary Ufology and Hotspots 37:23 Patterns in UFO Sightings 40:11 The Paraphysical Hypothesis 43:37 Control Mechanisms and Technological Inspiration 59:07 Color Spectrum and UFO Phenomena 01:09:54 Field Work Inspired by John Keel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Kelly Chase sits down with Dana Kippel—author of A New Force: Plasma, Consciousness, and the New Human Potential—to dive into her vision of plasma as a multidimensional, living intelligence that carries both consciousness and information. Dana opens up about her path as an experiencer, the role of downloads and intuition in her work, and why embracing the feminine side of plasma is key to unlocking human potential. We talk about what it means to navigate reality through both science and spirit, how vulnerability can become a superpower, and why so many people are resonating with her message online. This conversation is raw, inspiring, and full of insights that reframe what it means to live in a participatory cosmos. Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio. ✨ Join the conversation and go deeper: Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media Resources & References Dana Kippel, A New Force: Plasma, Consciousness, and the New Human Potential https://a.co/d/2Vq0kLx Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality: https://www.cosmosis.media/ Join the Patreon: https://cosmosiscommunity.com Subscribe to Cosmosis: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow Cosmosis X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117 Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 05:27 Dana's Early Experiences with the Anomalous 08:31 The Impact of Trauma on Anomalous Experiences 12:39 Navigating Social Media and Personal Growth 19:08 Dana's Journey into Plasma Research 24:18 The Role of Women in Plasma Studies 32:47 The Hero's Journey and Authenticity 35:20 Sharing Personal Struggles and Authenticity 36:05 The Illusion of Enlightenment 38:10 Understanding Plasma: Science and Beyond 39:04 Plasma as a Multidimensional Substance 56:26 Exploring the Divine Feminine and Plasma 01:04:10 Future Projects and Final Thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King are joined by philosopher James Madden, author of Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World. Jim has been part of this journey with us from the very beginning, appearing on The UFO Rabbit Hole podcast and in our docuseries Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality. Together, we take a hard look at the state of ufology and how belief, ideology, and language shape the way we think about the phenomenon. We ask tough questions: Has ufology become a kind of religion? What does it mean to practice good “epistemic hygiene” in a field so vulnerable to disinformation and self-deception? How can we avoid falling into old patterns of certainty while still honoring the mystery? This is a conversation about curiosity, responsibility, and the courage to sit with the unknown. Whether you’re new to the field or a long-time experiencer, Jim’s insights cut through the noise and remind us that sometimes the most important thing isn’t finding the answer—but learning to ask better questions. Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio. ✨ Join the conversation and go deeper: Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media Resources & References James D. Madden, Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World: https://a.co/d/4F2Tpcl Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality: https://www.cosmosis.media/ Join the Patreon: https://cosmosiscommunity.com Subscribe to Cosmosis: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow Cosmosis X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117 Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 04:57 The Evolution of Ufology: A Personal Perspective 07:37 Ufology as a Religion: Belief and Skepticism 14:15 The Hero's Journey in Ufology 29:59 Challenges in Ufology: Secrecy and Belonging 34:43 Navigating Blind Spots in Public Discourse 36:32 The Illusion of Ease in Public Engagement 37:42 The Trap of Daily Grind and Outrage Cycles 40:02 Questioning the UFO Narrative 44:13 Skepticism and Authority in the UFO Community 46:33 The Role of Media and Public Perception 54:02 Positive Aspects of Ufology 56:15 The Power of Unanswerable Questions 59:05 Maintaining Intellectual Sovereignty 01:04:31 Concluding Thoughts and Gratitude Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Jay sits down with author of Time, Myth and Matter, Laura Deutsch, for a wide-ranging conversation about time, myth, consciousness, and the instability of reality itself. Laura Deutsch shares her journey from precognitive dreams to the cutting edge of consciousness studies, weaving together threads of Jungian psychology, mythology, physics, and technology. Together, they explore: How myth and physics act as complementary ways of “reading” reality. The strange synchronicity between the I Ching and the birth of binary code. Why the Simulation Hypothesis functions more like a creation myth than a scientific theory. The paradox of time—eternalism versus presentism—and what it means for precognition. The role of synchronicity, archetypes, and trickster phenomena at the boundaries of the unknown. Laura Deutsch’s insights point to a deeper, underlying order where psyche and matter are inseparably linked—and where the stories we tell become the architectures of reality itself. ✨ Join the conversation and go deeper: Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.Media Music for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio. Resources & References Laura Deutsch, Time, Myth and Matter: https://www.sacredbonesrecords.com/products/sbb022-ld-deutsch-time-myth-and-matter?srsltid=AfmBOoow94a8kN69LM0qXghhuVun28QTBmv0mlBE6r6FjxzZKHEeOiKF Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality: https://www.cosmosis.media/ Join the Patreon: https://cosmosiscommunity.com Subscribe to Cosmosis: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow Cosmosis X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117 Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 04:23 Laura's Journey and Inspirations 13:38 Exploring the I Ching and Binary Code 23:55 Techno-Mythology and the Simulation Hypothesis 44:35 The Paradox of Simulated Realities 45:41 Big Bang and Creation Myths 46:50 Eternalism vs. Presentism 47:40 Three Types of Time 50:35 The Block Universe Model 54:00 Reconciling Physics and Neuroscience 58:32 Precognition and Consciousness 01:03:39 Synchronicities and Consciousness 01:10:05 Archetypes and the Unknown 01:16:00 New Myths for a New Era 01:25:19 Future Research Directions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if 99% of the universe holds the key to understanding UFOs, paranormal phenomena, and even consciousness itself? In this episode, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King dive deep into the plasma hypothesis—a paradigm-shifting idea that plasma, the fourth state of matter, may act as a substrate for intelligence. Fresh from the University of Exeter workshop on plasma cosmology (with thinkers like Robert Temple, Jeffrey Kripal, Bernard Carr, and Nick Cook), Kelly unpacks the conversations that are reshaping the frontier of science and anomalous studies. Together, Kelly and Jay explore: What plasma actually is and why it makes up nearly all of the visible universe. Robert Temple’s groundbreaking book A New Science of Heaven and its implications for UFOs and consciousness studies. Why orb encounters and plasma-like phenomena may be central to the experiencer narrative. The limits of materialist explanations—and why plasma may not explain everything. How process philosophy and transpersonal psychology open new frameworks for exploring intelligent plasma. The overlap between orbs, UFOs, cryptids, and the land of the dead. The risks of overreach and the need to resist turning plasma into the next “quantum” catch-all. From the cutting edge of astrophysics to the lived realities of experiencers, this conversation wrestles with the biggest question of all: could plasma be the hidden medium of mind, matter, and mystery? ✨ Join the conversation and go deeper: Cosmosis Community on Patreon – ad-free episodes, monthly calls, private Discord, and more: CosmosisCommunity.com Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality – now streaming on Amazon, Apple TV, and multiple platforms: Cosmosis.MediaMusic for Cosmosis is by Michael Rubino. The show is brought to you by SpectreVision Radio. Resources & References Robert Temple, A New Science of Heaven: https://a.co/d/9cIc6Ec Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality: https://www.cosmosis.media/ Join the Patreon: https://cosmosiscommunity.com Subscribe to Cosmosis: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow Cosmosis X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117 Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 01:51 Diving into Plasma Cosmology 03:45 Understanding Plasma: The Fourth State of Matter 06:55 The Potential of Plasma as a Substrate for Intelligence 09:53 Speculations on Plasma and Anomalous Phenomena 14:14 Challenges in Defining Plasma Intelligence 20:26 Exploring Plasma's Physical and Non-Physical Interactions 27:49 Philosophical Perspectives on Plasma Intelligence 31:53 Exploring Paranormal Phenomena 32:40 Interdimensional Theories and Consciousness 34:44 Plasma and Human Connection 35:24 Historical UFO Cases 38:35 Life, Death, and Plasma Phenomena 48:23 Orbs and UFOs: A Deeper Look 56:40 Future Research and Exploration 58:55 Closing Remarks and Community Engagement Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Kelly shares her recent paper Unfurling the Myth, presented at the University of Exeter during a workshop on Process Philosophy, Plasma Cosmology, and Transpersonal Psychology. This gathering brought together scientists, philosophers, and researchers—including Robert Temple, Jeffrey Kripal, Bernard Carr, Massimo Teodorani, and Nick Cook—to explore the possibility that plasma, the fourth state of matter, could serve as a substrate for non-biological intelligence. Kelly’s paper argues that the UFO phenomenon is not just an anomaly in the sky but a relational event—an encounter that engages the psyche through the deep structures of narrative. Rather than delivering answers, the phenomenon generates mystery, catalyzing transformation on both personal and cultural levels. Drawing on thinkers like Robert Temple, Jacques Vallée, and Eric Davis, as well as research in narrative cognition and the psychology of curiosity, Kelly explores how UFOs may function as mythic initiators: destabilizing our categories of knowledge, activating curiosity, and compelling us to tell new stories. These stories are not just interpretations but mechanisms of reality-making—reshaping our understanding of self, world, and cosmos. Plasma cosmology and the possibility of plasma-based intelligence The UFO as relational event, not just object or craft Narrative as a generative interface between psyche and field How curiosity and myth catalyze transformation The “Call to Adventure” in experiencer narratives Cultural and personal shifts documented in experiencer research The UFO as evolutionary function, seeding new myths and meanings Whether you’re new to these ideas or steeped in the mysteries of UFOs, this episode invites you to consider the phenomenon not as something to solve, but as something to participate in—a story in which we are all co-creators. Resources Robert Temple, A New Science of Heaven Jacques Vallée & Eric Davis, Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness George Loewenstein, The Psychology of Curiosity Will Storr, The Science of Storytelling Stanislav & Christina Grof, Spiritual Emergency Hernandez et al., Beyond UFOs Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality: https://www.cosmosis.media/ Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismedia Subscribe to Cosmosis: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.Podcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479d Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow Cosmosis X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117 Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 00:38 Exploring Plasma Cosmology 01:22 The Significance of Plasma-Based Intelligence 02:20 Introduction to the Paper: Unfurling the Myth 03:25 Understanding the UFO Phenomenon 04:51 The Role of Narrative in UFO Encounters 06:45 Rethinking the UFO 11:25 Curiosity and the Mythic Initiation 15:30 Awakening the Hero Within 19:57 Remaking the World Through UFO Encounters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Fan favorite, James Madden, has a brand new project with his brilliant co-host Jared Zimmerer called The Great Dangerous Books Podcast. Check out this episode to catch the vibe of the show, and if you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Subscribe to The Great Dangerous Books Podcast Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube In this episode, Jim and Jared discuss the complexities of the UFO phenomenon with special guest Kelly Chase, focusing on Jacques Vallee's influential work 'Messengers of Deception.' They explore themes of manipulation, the unconscious, and the power of images in shaping belief systems. The conversation delves into the psychological impact of UFO experiences, the dangers of ontological shock, and the need for critical thinking in the field of ufology. Throughout, they emphasize the importance of self-awareness and the challenges of integrating extraordinary experiences into one's worldview. TIMESTAMPS 01:28 Introducing Kelly Chase and Her Work 03:09 Exploring Jacques Vallee's 'Messengers of Deception' 05:17 Vallee's Perspective on UFOs and Manipulation 09:47 The Reliability of Jacques Vallee 12:05 The Nature of Reality and Ideological Structures 15:04 The Impact of Ontological Shock 18:45 The Role of the Unconscious in UFO Phenomena 22:08 The Dangers of Manipulation and Belief Systems 27:44 Connecting Modernity and Public Manipulation 32:56 The Internet's Oppenheimer: Valet's Perspective 35:32 The Power of Images and Human Manipulation 39:57 Gnosticism and the Quest for Knowledge 44:05 The Nature of UFO Phenomena and Human Belief 47:35 The Intersection of Science and Mythology 52:11 Critical Inquiry and the Nature of Belief 55:32 The Joy of Inquiry and the Dangers of Ufology Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Cosmosis, Jay Christopher King sits down with historian and esoteric scholar Mitch Horowitz for a wide-ranging conversation about magic, consciousness, and the anomalous. He is the author of numerous books Occult America, The Miracle Club, and Practical Magick, Mitch is a singular voice who bridges the academy, pop culture, and the esoteric underground with rare clarity and rigor. Together, they explore: The convergence between magical practice and parapsychology Ritual as an experimental interface with anomalous phenomena The significance of emotional investment and “skin in the game” in psi effects Chaos magic, sigils, and how to test magical practice for yourself Ethics in magic and the overlooked power of reciprocity Sexual transmutation and sex magic as tools of transformation The strange reality of retrocausality and backwards time effects The cultural blind spots of mainstream science and skepticism Mitch’s pivotal experience editing The Super Natural with Whitley Strieber and Jeff Kripal This episode offers a powerful invitation to take magic seriously—not as superstition, but as a methodology of intention, experimentation, and meaning-making. Whether you’re a seasoned practitioner or an experiencer just starting to make sense of your reality, Mitch’s grounded, historically informed approach opens new doors. 🎧 Listen if you’re curious about: How magical frameworks might stabilize or map high-strangeness phenomena What it means to “test” magic—and why your results might come dressed in the unexpected How to reclaim personal agency in the face of ontological shock More From Mitch Horowitz Books Substack Podcast X Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Donate to The Experiencer Grouphttps://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=TBPJNDVY9QJFUJoin the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS​04:55 Diving into the Conversation with Mitch Horowitz05:20 Exploring the Intersection of Magic and Ufology23:01 Mitch Horowitz's Journey into Magic26:51 Ethics and Practical Magic37:08 Introduction to Sil Magic37:51 Origins and Practice of Sil Magic39:30 The Role of Climax in Sil Magic41:26 Anarchic Magic and Deity Petition43:55 Exploring Sex Magic48:48 Sex Transmutation Techniques52:19 Backwards Causation and Time01:06:10 Parapsychology and JB Rhine's Experiments01:11:19 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase presents an updated version of her 2025 Contact in the Desert keynote, “UFO Narrative Wars: Weaponized Belief in the Age of Disclosure.” This talk goes beyond the surface of the UFO phenomenon to explore the hidden architecture of secrecy and the sophisticated mechanics of narrative control. Drawing from deep research into intelligence tradecraft, counterintelligence, and disinformation—along with firsthand interactions with members of the intelligence community—Kelly unpacks how belief itself becomes a weapon in the battle for truth. From psychological operations to perception management, from limited hangouts to the “secret onion” model of secrecy, this episode reveals how our search for answers is being actively shaped, steered, and contained. But this isn’t a story about villains. It’s a call to responsibility. Kelly challenges listeners to reclaim their intellectual sovereignty, resist easy answers, and build discernment in an information landscape designed to confuse. Whether you're a skeptic, experiencer, journalist, or just UFO-curious, this talk will change how you see not just the phenomenon—but the stories we tell about it. Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 02:55 The Role of Intelligence in UFO Narratives 07:42 The Complexity of Secrecy and Perception Management 16:08 The Secret Onion: Layers of Deception 26:35 The Scale and Impact of Institutionalized Secrecy 37:31 Heroes, Villains, and Controlled Opposition 45:58 The Power of Sincere Belief 48:10 The Hero Trap in UFO Narratives 50:47 Counterintelligence and Narrative Control 54:14 The 80-20 Rule in Disinformation 55:49 Limited Hangouts and Perception Management 01:00:54 Character Assassination and Narrative Flooding 01:08:03 The Weaponization of Belief 01:14:50 Reclaiming Intellectual Sovereignty

Today we’re sharing a special preview of a brand-new podcast called Gods, Ghosts, & UFOs—a show that explores the haunted edges of human experience, where the spiritual, the supernatural, and the anomalous collide. This preview episode is split into two parts. In the first half, Kelly joins hosts Jordan, Mallory, and Tom for an intimate and wide-ranging conversation about the cultural impact of the UFO phenomenon, the power of storytelling, and what it means to navigate a world where the boundaries of reality are breaking down. In the second half, enjoy another episode preview where the GGU team explores abductions, Sky Watcher’s “living taxonomy” of UAP, the James Webb telescope’s latest anomalies, and what it means to stay curious in a world fraying at the seams. If you love Cosmosis, you're going to find a lot to sink your teeth into here. 👉 Follow Gods, Ghosts, & UFOs here: GodsGhostsUFOs.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kelly and Jay sit down for an unfiltered conversation about the deeply weird, emotionally charged relationships that are forming between people and their AI chatbots. What begins as a discussion about ChatGPT’s rapid evolution unfolds into something stranger—a reflection on the ways AI flatters, gaslights, and co-creates identity with its users. They explore: Why ChatGPT feels like a precocious child… or a pickup artist The eerie overlap between AI interactions and experiencer narratives Whether language models are tapping into occult mechanisms of manifestation Why flattery works, and what it reveals about our unmet emotional needs How archetypes, delusion, and story shape both spiritual encounters and our chats with AI What happens when the mirror talks back Is this just the next phase of human-AI interaction—or is something deeper emerging? And most importantly: what happens to us if we outsource being seen? Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 02:08 Personal Experiences with Chat GPT02:21 The Evolution of AI Models03:10 AI as a Personal Confidant04:52 Emotional Manipulation by AI06:22 The Future of Human-AI Interaction08:41 Authenticity and Vulnerability in AI Interactions18:09 The Role of AI in Social Engineering22:51 AI and the Human Psyche33:18 Algorithmic Influence on Human Behavior35:13 Exploring Multiverse Shifting35:41 Comic Books and Multiverse Fascination37:04 Anomalous Experiences and Fictional Characters38:44 Meditation and Non-Human Entity Contact41:23 The Role of Co-Creation in Our Lives43:28 The Power and Danger of Delusion44:51 Manifestation and Occult Practices48:31 Chat GPT and Emotional Manipulation57:26 The Future of AI and Human Interaction59:34 Authenticity in Human Connections01:03:50 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, researcher and Loose Threads co-author Daniel Elizondo joins us for a far-reaching conversation about UFO secrecy, the architecture of disinformation, and the psychological terrain of the phenomenon itself. We dig into Jacques Vallée’s “Secret Onion”—a layered model of compartmentalization that explains how information is controlled and obscured within intelligence structures—and explore how narrative control operates both externally through infotainment and internally through belief, seduction, and epistemic vulnerability. Daniel breaks down the long history of rug pulls, the weaponization of mystery, and what it means to resist the gravitational pull of being “the one” to break the story. We also talk Forbidden Science, Skywatcher, and the invisible handshake between researchers and the phenomenon they seek to understand. If you’ve ever wondered who controls the narrative—or if you’re part of it—this episode is for you.📚 Resources and References Loose Threads by Daniel Elizondo and the Hermetic Penetrator Forbidden Science 6: Scattered Castles by Jacques Vallée UFOs: Past, Present, and Future by Robert Emenegger Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS02:24 Sky Watcher and UFO Community Skepticism08:48 Historical Precedents in UFO Disclosure10:30 The Holloman Air Force Base Incident14:35 Challenges in UFO Disclosure and Infotainment21:45 Personal Experiences and Intelligence Community Interactions30:58 Navigating the Insider's Club and Forbidden Science33:08 The Repeated Revelations of Jacques Vallee35:25 The Evolution of the Invisible College39:57 The Secret Onion: Layers of Secrecy49:46 The Phenomenon and Human Curiosity56:57 The Control Mechanism: Micro and Macro Perspectives01:01:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fresh from the Archives of the Impossible conference at Rice University, Kelly and Jay sit down to unpack one of the most talked-about moments of the weekend—a provocative presentation by Dr. Garry Nolan on his involvement with the Skywatcher initiative. Skywatcher is an emerging public-facing effort claiming to demonstrate CE5-style contact, utilize psionic assets, with the aim of potentially reverse-engineering non-human technologies. The implications are enormous—and so are the questions. In this wide-ranging, deeply reflective conversation, Kelly and Jay explore: The strange and rapid emergence of Skywatcher and the implications for the disclosure movement The increasingly blurred lines between whistleblower testimony, media spectacle, and operational theater The question of who’s leading the charge into direct contact with non-human intelligences—and why The need to balance the objectives of science and venture capital against humanitarian, ethical, and philosophical questions in our quest for contact—and why that will almost certainly not happen. The potential cost of accelerating contact without asking the deeper metaphysical, spiritual, and cultural questions Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow Cosmosis X: https://x.com/cosmosis_media Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.media Listen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQ Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117 Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 02:18 Exploring Sky Watcher's Initiatives03:38 Jake Barber's Revelations05:22 CE-5 and Public Disclosure07:16 Community Reactions and Ethical Questions15:39 Garry Nolan's Scientific Perspective20:56 Technological Worldview and Ethical Implications30:03 Heidegger's Philosophy and Technology39:20 The Value of Human Life in a Technological Age40:17 The Ethical Implications of Technological Intelligence43:55 The Concept of Hyper Objects and UFO Phenomena45:54 The Great Filter and Technological Surveillance47:52 The Role of Experience in Understanding Phenomena51:19 The Spectacle and Mediated Reality56:09 Dwelling vs. Dominating: A Philosophical Approach To Contact01:05:31 The Importance of Bracketing in Phenomenology01:07:57 Balancing Speed and Methodology in Disclosure01:11:00 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this mind-bending episode of Cosmosis, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King take you to the frontlines of one of the most disorienting—and revealing—aspects of the UFO phenomenon: time. From the baffling 1977 disappearance of Corporal Armando Valdés in Chile, to the unnerving time anomalies reported by abductees like Lynda Jones, this episode explores the unnerving possibility that the phenomenon isn’t just moving through space—but manipulating time itself. We dive deep into the emerging science of time as an emergent property, explore the implications of the Extratempestrial Model with insights from Dr. Michael P. Masters, and examine the evidence for time loops, missing time, reality edits, and the infamous Mandela Effect. Drawing from the latest physics, groundbreaking experiencer data, and real-world cases, this episode reframes UFO encounters not as visits from “out there,” but as incursions from “elsewhen.” Are non-human intelligences using time as a tool, a language—or even a weapon? Could we be caught in a war for the timeline itself? And if so… who is writing the story of our future? Reality may not be what it seems. And time might not be on anyone’s side. 📚 Resources and references for deeper exploration The Extratempestrial Model by Michael P. Masters: https://a.co/d/eM10tZx Time Loops: Precognition, Retrocausation, and the Unconscious by Eric Wargo: https://a.co/d/eFi3rtx Flying Saucer to the Center of Your Mind by John Keel: https://a.co/d/8TxNV0g FREE Experiencer Survey Beyond UFOs: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326151576_A_Study_on_Reported_Contact_with_Non-Human_Intelligence_Associated_with_Unidentified_Aerial_Phenomena Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Mysterious Encounter in the Atacama Desert03:25 Introduction to Time Anomalies05:00 The Nature of Time09:06 Einstein's Theory and the Block Universe10:35 Quantum Mechanics and Time13:24 Implications for Anomalous Experiences14:18 Lynda Jones' Encounter19:21 The Extratempestrial Model21:13 Time Travel Possibilities24:54 Time Anomalies in Encounters27:10 The Silence of Encounters29:31 The Mystery of Missing Time30:19 Burns and Radiation32:43 Impossible Movements: The Physics of UFOs35:19 The Greys: Future Humans or Extraterrestrials?39:22 Longitudinal Studies and Genetic Programs42:14 The Men in Black: Government Agents or Something Else?47:46 The Mandela Effect: Glitches in the Timeline52:06 Time Loops and Precognition56:22 Synchronicity and the Shape of Our Stories57:51 Conclusion: The Deeper Reality of UFOs and Time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Cosmosis, we share a never-before-released talk by Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka, recorded live at the Inquire Anomalous conference in New York City. Diana—religious studies professor and author of American Cosmic and Encounters—takes us on an astonishing journey through her research into Catholic mysticism, Vatican archives, and modern UFO contact experiences. From levitating saints and the mysterious Woman in Blue to redacted mystical narratives and the ontological shock of encountering the impossible, Diana reveals surprising links between ancient religious experiences and contemporary reports of contact with non-human intelligences. She also speaks candidly about her own transformation, the eerie resonances between the sacred and the anomalous, and her collaboration with figures like Tyler D. and Dr. Garry Nolan on the frontier of space, consciousness, and belief. This episode includes the full live Q&A with Diana—where she responds to insightful (and sometimes wild) audience questions about redaction, religious symbolism, and whether spiritual devotion might offer protection from malevolent entities. 🔗 Learn more about Diana’s work and online courses: https://dwpasulka.com Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS06:10 Exploring Ascent Narratives and UFOs08:37 Investigating Vatican Archives and Levitation12:28 Comparing Historical and Modern Phenomena21:40 Theresa of Avila's Angel Event28:42 Synchronicities and Childhood Beliefs29:39 Meeting Edward Carlos: An Experiencer's Story31:10 The Process of Redaction32:54 Historical Context and Space Programs35:30 St. Francis of Assisi's Angel Experience42:50 Q&A Session53:15 Closing Remarks and Resources

For fans of the old school deep dives from The UFO Rabbit Hole, this episode is for you. For many, the biggest challenge in engaging with UFOs, NHIs, and the anomalous isn’t a lack of evidence, but the nature of the evidence itself. The best data we have comes from experiencers—those who have directly encountered the unknown. But their stories are often so strange, so far outside of our frameworks, that even the most open-minded struggle with how to approach them. In this episode, Kelly Chase and Jay Christopher King take on this challenge head-on, exploring:🔹 Why experiencer testimony is the most important—and most misunderstood—source of insight into the phenomenon🔹 The impact of memory, trauma, and perception on anomalous encounters🔹 How bias, belief systems, and cultural stigma shape the UFO narrative🔹 The role of consciousness in contact phenomena—and why reality may be stranger than we think🔹 How to listen to experiencer narratives with both discernment and radical openness We also examine cutting-edge models from Jacques Vallée, Eric Davis, Diana Pasulka, Jeffrey Kripal, James Madden, and others, to uncover new ways of understanding the impossible. This episode isn’t just about listening—it’s about learning to perceive the phenomenon in an entirely new way. ———————————————————————Thank you to Magic Mind for sponsoring this episode. Try Magic Mind If you’re like to try Magic Mind, go to https://www.magicmind.com/cosmosis and use code COSMOSIS20 to get you up to 48% off your first subscription for the next 10 days or 20% off for a one-time purchase. Check out the science behind Magic Mind: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J7lHKMS_LqwWNvAIujShBs4IbCzsgOM_/view?pli=1——————————————————————— Mentioned in This Episode📖 American Cosmic by Diana Walsh Pasulka – [https://a.co/d/fYxuZ2m]📖 Unidentified Flying Hyper Object by James Madden – [https://a.co/d/iVOtkYA]📖 The Case Against Reality by Donald Hoffman – [https://a.co/d/4yKbKNa]📖 Hyperobjects: Philosophy and Ecology After the End of the World by Timothy Morton – [https://a.co/d/i8u1qaz]📖 Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness by Jacques Vallée & Eric Davis – [Read here: https://www.academia.edu/36788970/Incommensurability_Orthodoxy_and_the_Physics_of_High_Strangeness_A_six_layer_model_for_Anomalous_Phenomena]🎙️ The Experiencer Group – Support at [https://tegmembers.com] Support The Experiencer Group:https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=TBPJNDVY9QJFU Watch Cosmosis: UFOs & A New Reality:https://www.cosmosis.media/Join the Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cosmosismediaSubscribe to Cosmosis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Cosmosis.PodcastSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7KnyktIs059pbVdccD020D?si=f3835f36a8cb479dApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cosmosis-formerly-the-ufo-rabbit-hole/id1595590107 Follow CosmosisX: https://x.com/cosmosis_mediaFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/12EEyNVPucu/?mibextid=wwXIfrInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cosmosis.mediaListen to the Cosmosis Soundtrack by Michael Rubino:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/5Xvs2NAHNbKjfW7hWkjqey?si=pJPPgIPsRZGkZjJh19UULQApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/album/cosmosis-ufos-a-new-reality-season-one-original-soundtrack/1788465117Amazon: https://amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0DS5WY5CB?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_zY05XPzhLhuow5dAgK3g2W9yC TIMESTAMPS03:23 The Challenge of UFO Testimonies04:35 The Nature of Extraordinary Evidence06:31 The Complexity of Experiencer Narratives13:08 The Role of Trauma and Memory14:29 The Experiencer Group and Its Mission15:41 Subjectivity and Inconsistencies in Reports19:01 The Bigger Picture of Anomalous Experiences21:40 Philosophical Perspectives on Truth and Reality25:45 Quantum Mechanics and Anomalous Experiences28:29 Frameworks for Understanding the Phenomenon29:57 The Concept of Redaction in UFO Narratives32:44 The Nature of Redaction in UFO Testimonies34:05...