Software Engineering Radio - the podcast for professional software developers

Daniel Deogun and Dan Bergh Johnsson -- two of the co-authors of the book, Secure by Design -- discuss the intersection of good software design and security with host Sam Taggart. They describe how following certain software design principles can help developers create secure software without needing to become security experts. They talked about how this is the continuation of developers taking on more responsibilities: Agile asked developers to become responsible for testing their code. DevOps asked developers to work together with operations in deploying their code. Secure by Design asks developers to incorporate security into their designs. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Artie Shevchenko, author of Code Health Guardian, speaks with host Jeff Doolittle about the crucial role of human programmers in the AI era, emphasizing that humans must excel at managing code complexity. Shevchenko discusses these concepts and key takeaways from his book, including the three problems caused by complexity: change amplification, cognitive load, and the most severe, unknown unknowns. He suggests that maintaining code health should be viewed pragmatically as a productivity question, requiring an ownership mentality and product focus to balance short-term delivery with long-term maintainability. The episode also covers vital processes such as using design documents for upfront analysis and code reviews, highlighting four goals: high code quality, knowledge sharing, delivery speed, and -- most important for team productivity -- psychological safety. This episode is sponsored by Monday Dev

Duncan McGregor and Nat Pryce, co-authors of Java to Kotlin: Refactoring Guidebook, speak with host Giovanni Asproni about their hands-on experiences migrating Java codebases. The episode starts by highlighting Kotlin’s seamless interoperability with Java, allowing teams to incrementally adopt Kotlin without disrupting existing Java code. Duncan and Nat then describe some of the benefits of using Kotlin — including stronger type safety, non-nullable types, and better support for immutability — and some of the gotchas when refactoring from Java to Kotlin due to the different idioms supported by the two languages. Finally, they discuss the importance of testing and tooling, and the evolving role of AI-assisted tools in complex and large-scale refactorings — in the context of work done by teams, as opposed to individuals. This episode is sponsored by Monday Dev

Qian Li of DBOS, a durable execution platform born from research by the creators of Postgres and Spark, speaks with host Kanchan Shringi about building durable, observable, and scalable software systems, and why that matters for modern applications. They discuss database-backed program state, workflow orchestration, real-world AI use cases, and comparisons with other workflow technologies. Li explains how DBOS persists not just application data but also program execution state in Postgres to enable automatic recovery and exactly-once execution. She outlines how DBOS uses workflow and step annotations to build deterministic, fault-tolerant flows for everything from e-commerce checkouts to LLM-powered agents. Observability features, including SQL-accessible state tables and a time-travel debugger, allow developers and business users to understand and troubleshoot system behavior. Finally, she compares DBOS with tools like Temporal and AWS Step Functions. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Luke Hinds, CTO of Stacklok and creator of Sigstore, speaks with SE Radio's Brijesh Ammanath about the privacy and security concerns of using AI coding agents. They discuss how the increased use of AI coding assistants has improved programmer productivity but has also introduced certain key risks. In the area of secrets management, for example, there is the risk of secrets being passed to LLMs. Coding assistants can also introduce dependency-management risks that can be exploited by malicious actors. Luke recommends several tools and behaviors that programmers can adopt to ensure that secrets do not get leaked. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Wesley Beary of Anchor speaks with host Sam Taggart about designing APIs with a particular emphasis on user experience. Wesley discusses what it means to be an “API connoisseur”— paying attention to what makes the APIs we consume enjoyable or frustrating and then taking those lessons and using them when we design our own APIs. Wesley and Sam also explore the many challenges developers face when designing APIs, such as coming up with good abstractions, testing, getting user feedback, documentation, security, and versioning. They address both CLI and web APIs. This episode is sponsored by Fly.io.

Chris Love, co-author of the book Core Kubernetes, joins host Robert Blumen for a conversation about kubernetes security. Chris identifies the node layer, secrets management, the network layer, contains, and pods as the most critical areas to be addressed. The conversation explores a range of topics, including when to accept defaults and when to override; differences between self-managed clusters and cloud-service provider-managed clusters; and what can go wrong at each layer -- and how to address these issues. They further discuss managing the node layer; network security best practices; kubernetes secrets and integration with cloud-service provider secrets; container security; pod security, and Chris offers his views on policy-as-code frameworks and scanners. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Jacob Visovatti and Conner Goodrum of Deepgram speak with host Kanchan Shringi about testing ML models for enterprise use and why it's critical for product reliability and quality. They discuss the challenges of testing machine learning models in enterprise environments, especially in foundational AI contexts. The conversation particularly highlights the differences in testing needs between companies that build ML models from scratch and those that rely on existing infrastructure. Jacob and Conner describe how testing is more complex in ML systems due to unstructured inputs, varied data distribution, and real-time use cases, in contrast to traditional software testing frameworks such as the testing pyramid. To address the difficulty of ensuring LLM quality, they advocate for iterative feedback loops, robust observability, and production-like testing environments. Both guests underscore that testing and quality assurance are interdisciplinary efforts that involve data scientists, ML engineers, software engineers, and product managers. Finally, this episode touches on the importance of synthetic data generation, fuzz testing, automated retraining pipelines, and responsible model deployment—especially when handling sensitive or regulated enterprise data. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Samuel Colvin, the CEO and founder of Pydantic, speaks with host Gregory M. Kapfhammer about the ecosystem of Pydantic’s Python frameworks, including Pydantic, Pydantic AI, and Pydantic Logfire. Along with discussing the design, implementation, and use of these frameworks, they dive into the refactoring of Pydantic and the follow-on performance improvements. They also explore ways in which Python programmers can use these three frameworks to build, test, evaluate, and monitor their own applications that interact with both local and cloud-based large language models. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Brian Demers, Developer Advocate at Gradle, speaks with host Giovanni Asproni about the importance of having observability in the toolchain. Such information about build times, compiler warnings, test executions, and any other system used to build the production code can help to reduce defects, increase productivity, and improve the developer experience. During the conversation they touch upon what is possible with today’s tools; the impact on productivity and developer experience; and the impact, both in terms of risks and opportunities, introduced by the use of artificial intelligence. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Vilhelm von Ehrenheim, co-founder and chief AI officer of QA.tech, speaks with SE Radio's Brijesh Ammanath about autonomous testing. The discussion starts by covering the fundamentals, and how testing has evolved from manual to automated to now autonomous. Vilhelm then deep dives into the details of autonomous testing and the role of agents in autonomous testing. They consider the challenges in adopting autonomous testing, and Wilhelm describes the experiences of some clients who have made the transition. Toward the end of the show, Vilhelm describes the impact of autonomous testing on the traditional QA career and what test professionals can do to upskill. This episode is sponsored by Fly.io.

In this episode of Software Engineering Radio, Abhinav Kimothi sits down with host Priyanka Raghavan to explore retrieval-augmented generation (RAG), drawing insights from Abhinav's book, A Simple Guide to Retrieval-Augmented Generation. The conversation begins with an introduction to key concepts, including large language models (LLMs), context windows, RAG, hallucinations, and real-world use cases. They then delve into the essential components and design considerations for building a RAG-enabled system, covering topics such as retrievers, prompt augmentation, indexing pipelines, retrieval strategies, and the generation process. The discussion also touches on critical aspects like data chunking and the distinctions between open-source and pre-trained models. The episode concludes with a forward-looking perspective on the future of RAG and its evolving role in the industry. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Luca Palmieri, author of Zero to Production in Rust and Principal Engineering Consultant at MainMatter, speaks with SE Radio host Gavin Henry about Rust in production. They discuss what production Rust means, how to get Rust code into production, specific Rust issues to think about when getting an application into production, what Rust profiles are, expected performance, telemetry options, error handling and what parts of Rust to use and avoid. Palmieri discusses docker containers, tracing, robust Rust error handling, how performant Rust is in the real world, p50, p99, docker build techniques, project layouts, crates, speeding up Rust build times, unwrap(), panics, budgeting resources, inner development loops, the Facade Pattern, structured logging, and how to always use clippy. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

In this episode, SE Radio host Sriram Panyam explores HTMX with its creator, Carson Gross, who is also creator of Hyperscript, the mind behind the Grug Brained Developer, a professor of software engineering at Montana State University, and co-author of Hypermedia Systems. HTMX is a modern JavaScript library that allows developers to access AJAX, WebSockets, CSS Transitions, and Server-Sent Events directly in HTML using attributes. It represents a return to hypermedia-driven application architecture while supporting modern user experiences. The episode starts with a look at the current complexity in web development and how HTMX offers an alternative approach. Carson explains the core philosophy of "HTML as the interface" and how hypermedia principles influenced HTMX's design. From there, they dive into HTMX's technical concepts, including its attribute system, server-side integration, event handling, and state management approach. Carson shares some real-world implementation strategies, including migration paths from JavaScript frameworks, architectural patterns, and performance considerations -- as well as a few scenarios in which HTMX might not be the best fit. Finally, they look at the growing HTMX ecosystem, community contributions, and future development roadmap. Throughout the episode, Carson provides concrete examples and case studies of HTMX in production environments. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Matthias Endler, Rust developer, open-source maintainer, and consultant through his company Corrode, speaks with SE Radio host Gavin Henry about prototyping in Rust. They discuss prototyping and why Rust is excellent for prototyping, and Matthias recommends a workflow for it, including what parts of Rust to use, and what parts to avoid at this stage. He describes the key components that Rust provides to help us validate ideas via prototypes, as well as tips and tricks to reach for. In addition, the conversation explores type inference, unwrap(), expect(), anyhow crate, bacon crate, cargo-script, Rust macros to use, generics, lifetimes, best practices, project layout styles, and how to design through types. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Will McGugan, the CEO and founder of Textualize, speaks with host Gregory M. Kapfhammer about how to use packages such as Rich and Textual to build text-based user interfaces (TUIs) and command-line interfaces (CLIs) in Python. Along with discussing the design idioms that enable developers to create TUIs in Python, they consider practical strategies for efficiently rendering the components of a TUI. They also explore the subtle idiosyncrasies of implementing performant TUI frameworks like Textual and Rich and introduce the steps that developers would take to create their own CLI or TUI. This episode is sponsored by Fly.io.

Steve Summers speaks with SE Radio host Sam Taggart about securing test and measurement equipment. They start by differentiating between IT and OT (Operational Technology) and then discuss the threat model and how security has evolved in the OT space, including a look some of the key drivers. They then examine security challenges associated with a specific device called a CompactRIO, which combines a Linux real-time CPU with a field programmable gate array (FPGA) and some analog hardware for capturing signals and interacting with real-world devices. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Ashley Peacock, the author of Serverless Apps on Cloudflare, speaks with host Jeremy Jung about content delivery networks (CDNs). Along the way, they examine dependency injection with bindings, local development, serverless, cold starts, the V8 runtime, AWS Lambda vs Cloudflare workers, WebAssembly limitations, and core services such as R2, D1, KV, and Pages. Ashley suggests why most users use an external database and discusses eventually consistent data stores, S3-to-R2 migration strategies, queues and workflows, inter-service communication, durable objects, and describes some example projects. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Eran Yahav, Professor of Computer Science at Technion, Israel, and CTO of Tabnine, speaks with host Gregory M. Kapfhammer about the Tabnine AI coding assistant. They discuss how the design and implementation allows software engineers to use code completion and perform tasks such as automated code review while still maintaining developer privacy. Eran and Gregory also explore how research in the field of natural language processing (NLP) and large language models (LLMs) has informed the features in Tabnine. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.

Malcolm Matalka, founder of Terrateam, joins host Giovanni Asproni to talk about the reasoning behind the choice of a not-so-widespread language (OCaml) and the (almost) total avoidance of frameworks for the development of Terrateam. While discussing the reasons for choosing a specific programming language and the advantages and disadvantages of using external frameworks, they touch on other related topics, including static vs dynamic typing, the use of monorepos, and the advantages of using a single language that can be used both for web frontends and server backends. The episode ends with lessons learned that can be applied to other contexts and projects. Brought to you by IEEE Computer Society and IEEE Software magazine.