The PolicyViz Podcast

In this episode, I chat with Don Moynihan, professor of public policy at the University of Michigan and author of the widely-read Substack newsletter Can We Still Govern? Don’s research focuses on administrative burdens—the learning, compliance, and psychological costs people experience when interacting with government—and how those frictions shape public trust. We talk about the data challenges involved in measuring these experiences, how the shift to digital services changes the picture, and why governments historically have ignored the costs they impose on the people they serve. We also get into Don’s own journey as a public communicator: how a rejected op-ed about Joe Manchin and the child tax credit sparked his newsletter, what it took to retrain himself to write for a general audience, and how he thinks about balancing timeliness with depth. If you’re a researcher wondering whether public communication is worth the risk—or just curious about what makes government work (or not)—this one is for you. Keywords administrative burden, public policy, government services, bureaucracy, policy communication, Substack newsletter, academic writing, public administration, government trust, policy research, data visualization, civic engagement, open government, policy podcast Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Read Don’s newsletter Can We Still Govern? Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this week’s episode, I talk with Melanie Tory, Professor of the Practice at Northeastern University, about how people actually use dashboards in the real world — and why that use often looks very different from what designers intend. Her research reveals that dashboards frequently serve as a starting point for accessing data rather than tools for answering questions directly, with many users simply exporting data to Excel to do their real analytical work. We also explore her work on AI-enabled healthcare systems designed to help clinicians monitor patient risk in intensive care units, including how to visualize uncertainty in ways that busy medical teams can process quickly. And we close with a look at her emerging research on how people are beginning to use generative AI tools for data visualization tasks. It's a thought-provoking conversation about the gap between the tools we build and the ways people actually work with data. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Keywords: data visualization, dashboards, dashboard design, dashboard usability, data analysis workflows, Tableau dashboards, Power BI dashboards, human data interaction, Melanie Tory, data communication, dashboard research, analytics tools, business intelligence dashboards, data storytelling, data workflows, PolicyViz Podcast Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Visit Melanie's webpage at Northeastern University Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this week’s episode of the PolicyViz Podcast, I chat with Michael Gethers, former Head of Data & Strategy for the McLaren IndyCar team, about how a personal side project analyzing IndyCar timing PDFs turned into a job building real-time data tools for a professional race team. We dig into what it’s like to design data products for engineers, strategists, and drivers who need to understand information instantly while a car is on track. Michael shares how he moved from making public visualizations on Twitter to building an internal analytics application from scratch, why “pretty charts” weren’t enough for the engineers, and how user feedback shaped the product. We also talk about race strategy as a probabilistic data science problem, the difference between dashboards and data products, and what he learned about designing for cognition under extreme time pressure. If you care about dashboards, data storytelling, or building tools people truly use, this conversation is a goldmine. Keywords: data dashboards, data product design, data visualization, motorsports analytics, race strategy, McLaren IndyCar, telemetry data, timing data, data science in sports, user centered design, dashboard design, real time analytics, D3 visualization, data engineering, analytics application Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode, I talk with Nick Hart, President and CEO of the Data Foundation, about the rapidly changing landscape of federal data, statistical agencies, and evidence-based policymaking. We explore how the Evidence Act reshaped government data infrastructure, why privacy protections and data governance matter more than ever, and what’s been happening behind the scenes over the last year as agencies faced staffing cuts, data removals, and unprecedented political pressure. Nick explains how government data systems actually work, why the U.S. model is both admired and strained, and what a “Data System 2.0” might look like in the future. We also discuss state and local data roles, the risks of politicizing data, and two public-facing initiatives from the Data Foundation: the Evidence Act Hub and the People’s Data 100. This is a wide-ranging conversation about trust, transparency, and why government data quietly underpins far more of our lives than most people realize. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check out the Data Foundation and their People's Data 100 project! Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode, I talk with Amanda Makulec about what it really takes to design dashboards and data products that people can understand and use. We dig into why so many dashboards fail, how designers and analysts often misjudge their audiences, and what it means to take a truly human-centered approach to data visualization. Amanda shares insights from her work leading the Data Visualization Society and from her book, including practical ways to think about context, cognition, and decision-making. We also discuss common misconceptions about dashboards, stakeholder expectations, and the gap between technical correctness and real-world usefulness. This conversation is packed with ideas for anyone building data tools meant to inform decisions, not just look impressive. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Pick up the new book, Dashboards That Deliver. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode, I talk with Denice Ross about the fragile state of federal data and her new work at DataIndex. We discuss how the removal, alteration, or disruption of federal data collections and data products affects research, policymaking, businesses, and everyday life. Denice explains the vision behind DataIndex and EssentialData, which monitor data risks, highlight data dependencies, and help users recognize how federal data benefit society. We also explore the roles of private-sector data, civic tech efforts, and public advocacy in building a more resilient national data infrastructure. It’s a fascinating look at what’s at stake when the country’s information backbone is no longer guaranteed. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check out America's Essential Data Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode, I’m joined by Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic and Mike Cisneros from Storytelling with Data to talk about their new book, Before & After. We dig into where the examples came from, how they selected and refined real client work, and why the book focuses so heavily on process rather than rules or templates. We also reflect on how the data visualization field has evolved over the past decade—from best practices and chart types to iteration, audience empathy, and real-world constraints. Along the way, we talk about teaching data viz, common pitfalls, and why there’s no such thing as a true “201 course”—only practice. Keywords: ddata visualization, storytelling with data, data storytelling, before and after charts, visualization process, data communication, chart design, visual analytics, design iteration, audience-focused data, PolicyViz Podcast, Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic, Mike Cisneros Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Grab the new book, Before and After - Practical Makeovers for Powerful Data Stories Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode, I sit down with Bill Rankin, historian of science at Yale and author of Radical Cartography, to unpack what maps really do beyond simply showing data. We talk about why mapping is an act of representation with real consequences, how common techniques like choropleths and cartograms shape what we see—and what we miss—and why there’s no single “correct” way to visualize the world. Bill shares how his background in architecture influences his approach to mapping as drawing and world-making, not coding or dashboards. We also dig into static versus interactive maps, accessibility, and why starting with questions—not tools—leads to better visualizations. It’s a thoughtful conversation about intention, trade-offs, and responsibility in data visualization. Keywords: PolicyViz Podcast, Bill Rankin, Radical Cartography, data visualization, maps and mapping, cartography, choropleth maps, cartograms, population maps, map projections, visualizing data, representation in data, ethics of data visualization, static maps, interactive maps, storytelling with data Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Grab Bill’s new book, Radical Cartography, and check out his website at radicalcartography.net. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

This is the final episode of 2026! I hope you have enjoyed the show this year and also hope you have a great holiday season and happy new year. In this episode, I sit down with former Census Bureau Director Rob Santos to talk about the state of federal statistics, what’s threatening the quality and independence of federal data, and why surveys like the American Community Survey and decennial census matter more than ever. We dig into how census data are collected, how political appointees interact with career staff, and why attempts to limit data collection or redefine who gets counted can undermine everything from policy to local decision-making. Rob also reflects on his approach to diversity, communication, and public engagement while leading the Census Bureau. We close by looking ahead at what modernization should look like for federal statistical agencies in the years to come. Keywords: Census Bureau, federal data, Rob Santos, statistical agencies, data quality, survey response rates, American Community Survey, decennial census, federal statistics, data integrity, data collection, public trust, policy data, government surveys, uncertainty communication, demographic data, administrative data, data modernization Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode, I’m thrilled to welcome back Duncan Clark from Flourish and Canva to talk about the incredible evolution of both tools over the past few years. We dig into how the Flourish and Canva teams have grown, how they now collaborate, and what that means for users who care about data visualization, storytelling, and workflow. Duncan walks through major updates—including the new Start With Data feature, expanded enterprise security options, and deeper presentation-focused capabilities. We also explore long-standing user requests, dashboarding, and how AI may soon accelerate data-viz workflows. It’s a wide-ranging and deeply insightful conversation for anyone who uses—or teaches—data visualization. Keywords: Flourish, Canva, Duncan Clark, data visualization, data storytelling, interactive graphics, data design, data tools, newsroom visualization, enterprise data security, Start With Data, presentations, dashboards, API visualization, data workflows, information design, PolicyViz Podcast Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check our Flourish Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode, I sit down with Alvitta Ottley and Paul Parsons to recap everything that happened at the 2025 IEEE VIS Conference in Vienna. We talk about our experiences co-organizing the VisCom workshop, the surprising attendance, and the standout keynote from Moritz Stefaner. Alvitta shares insights on accessibility research and the surge of LLM-focused visualization papers, while Paul walks us through his award-winning work on design cognition and how practitioners develop ideas. We also reflect on the evolving identity of the visualization field, from methodological rigor to the role of practitioners, interdisciplinarity, and ethical tensions. It’s a wide-ranging, candid conversation about where visualization research is headed — and what we hope to see next year in Boston. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check out the VIS website. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode, I sit down with Nadieh Bremer to talk about her new book, Chart, and the creative process behind her data visualization work. We discuss how she structures the book around a spectrum from straightforward charts to full-on data art, and why uncommon chart types can communicate nuance so effectively. Nadieh shares insights from her time in a makerspace, how physical-making influences her digital work, and why sketching after exploring the data is so important. We also talk about client work, design decisions, and how she thinks about success in her projects. It’s a fun, wide-ranging conversation that highlights why Nadieh remains one of the most thoughtful voices in the field. Keywords: Nadieh Bremer, data visualization, creative dataviz, data art, uncommon charts, Sankey diagrams, data storytelling, interactive visualization, static visualization, design process, sketching, makerspace, creative charts, PolicyViz Podcast Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Get Nadieh's latest book, Chart, her previous book Data Sketches, and check out her website, VisualCinnamon.com. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this week’s episode, I talk with Chris Parmer, co-founder of Plotly, about how the company is integrating AI into the next generation of data visualization and analytics tools. Chris walks me through the thinking behind Plotly Studio, their new AI-native environment where natural language prompts generate real, auditable code for charts, dashboards, and data apps. We discuss how this approach reduces bottlenecks for data teams, empowers non-technical users, and reshapes the role of the data visualization expert. We also dive into the limits of public dashboards, the rise of generative interfaces, and what a future of AI-driven exploratory analysis might look like. It’s a fascinating look at where data tools are heading and how analysts can stay ahead. Keywords: Plotly, Plotly Studio, data visualization, AI tools, generative AI, dashboards, data apps, Python, code generation, data workflows, data analysis, natural language interfaces, data science, analytics, enterprise data security, data storytelling, Jon Schwabish, Chris Parmer Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check out Plotly at: https://plotly.com/ Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this week’s episode, I welcome Jakub Wabiński and Vincent van Altena to the show to talk about their new book, Tactile Mapping. We explore how tactile and multisensory design can make maps—and data—more accessible for people with visual impairments and beyond. Jakub and Vincent share insights into how tactile maps are designed, tested, and used in real-world settings like museums and public spaces. We also discuss user-centered design, the challenges of scaling inclusive practices, and how tactile mapping can help everyone better understand and navigate the world around them. Keywords: Jakub Wabiński, Vincent van Altena, PolicyViz Podcast, Jon Schwabish, tactile mapping, inclusive cartography, data accessibility, tactile design, haptic maps, visual impairments, data visualization, inclusive design, spatial data, accessibility in mapping, geovisualization, map design, tactile graphics, inclusive data storytelling, multisensory design, universal design, ICA working group, TREP project, accessible data visualization Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check out Jackub and Vincent's book Tactile Mapping Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

Welcome back to the show! In this week’s episode, I chat with Allen Carroll, former Chief Cartographer at National Geographic and part of Esri’s StoryMapsteam. We talk about his new book, Telling Stories with Maps, which explores how maps can communicate meaning, emotion, and narrative. Allen shares his journey from analog map design to interactive, multimedia storytelling—and how digital tools are transforming the way we visualize place and data. We also discuss design choices, the balance between creativity and accessibility, and why storytelling is at the heart of effective communication. It’s a fascinating look at the intersection of geography, design, and technology. Check out Allen's book on Amazon or wherever you get your books. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Follow Giorgia on Twitter and find her book “This is Me and Only Me” on Amazon Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

Welcome back to the show! In this week's episode, I sit down with Doug Elmendorf, former director of the Congressional Budget Office, to talk about the impact of government shutdowns, the challenges of fiscal sustainability, and the importance of independent statistical agencies. We discuss how shutdowns ripple through the economy and people’s lives, the tough choices facing policymakers on entitlements and deficits, and why compromise is vital to our democracy. Doug also shares his perspective on the independence of federal statistical agencies, the role of private sector data, and the optimism he sees in today’s policy students. It’s a wide-ranging conversation about economics, governance, and the future of public service. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this week's episode of the show, I sit down with Justin Evans, author of The Little Book of Data, to talk about what it means to truly think like a data person. Justin shares insights from his 20-year career in data and advertising, reflecting on why so many professionals struggle to embrace data and how his book helps break down those barriers. We discuss the “four layers of data denial,” the qualities that make someone a data person, and the importance of storytelling in making data engaging and useful. Justin also offers stories from Nielsen, Samsung, and beyond to illustrate how data literacy and visualization can create clarity, solve problems, and unlock value. This conversation is both inspiring and practical for anyone working with—or intimidated by—data. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check out Justin's book, The Little Book of Data. Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode of the show, I talk with David Wessel from the Brookings Institution about the state of the US economy, the reliability of government statistics, and why trust in data matters more than ever. We cover the latest job numbers and what downward revisions mean, the pressures facing agencies like the Bureau of Labor Statistics and Census Bureau, and how politics threatens the credibility of official data. David shares insights on the risks of eroding confidence, what businesses and governments might do in response, and why high-quality, transparent data is essential for policymaking and for the public. It’s a timely and important conversation about the role of data in shaping our economic future. Keywords: David Wessel, Jon Schwabish, PolicyViz Podcast, Bureau of Labor Statistics, BLS, Census Bureau, U.S. economy, economic data, data revisions, trust in data, survey fatigue, government statistics, job market, unemployment, economic indicators, federal data, data transparency, data integrity, public trust Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Follow Giorgia on Twitter and find her book “This is Me and Only Me” on Amazon Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

In this episode, I sit down with William Beach, former Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, to dig into how America’s most important economic data are produced. We talk about the nuts and bolts of how the BLS jobs numbers are collected, processed, and released, as well as why revisions happen and what they really mean. Bill shares his perspective on the commissioner’s role, the challenges of falling survey response rates, and how statistical agencies can rebuild public trust in their work. We also touch on his experiences working across two administrations and his ideas for the future of federal data. This conversation sheds light on a system that is often misunderstood, yet vital for understanding the economy. Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, X, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com

This is a very special episode of the PolicyViz Podcast. I’m joined by Erica Groshen, former Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics to talk about the latest jobs report and what the numbers really mean for the state of the economy, including why revisions are an essential part of getting the data right. Dr. Groshen explains how the BLS produces its trusted statistics, the commissioner’s role, and what signals she watches for to spot potential recessions. We also discuss the importance of protecting federal statistical agencies, ensuring trust in their data, and what the future might hold for the BLS. It’s a fascinating conversation that connects technical detail with big-picture implications. Keywords: data, data visualization, fPolicyViz Podcast, Erica Groshen, Bureau of Labor Statistics, BLS, jobs report, labor market, economic data, employment situation, job growth, job losses, unemployment rate, data revisions, economic indicators, recession signals, federal statistics, data trust, labor economics Subscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a month Check out the BLS website for more data! Follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTube Email: jon@policyviz.com