Main Justice

This past weekend — after months of deflection from the Trump administration — came a sudden tone shift from President Trump himself, who urged House Republicans to support a measure compelling the Justice Department to release the Epstein files. Mary and Andrew begin here, noting that Trump could just as easily release the files himself without a vote. Next, they review an order to release all grand jury material in James Comey’s case, after the judge blasted the Justice Department for potential misconduct. And before wrapping up, Mary and Andrew head to the latest in the JGG case and Judge Boasberg’s contempt proceeding, after a district court ruled to allow the case before him to proceed. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

“Leave aside the cruelty of not giving these funds out,” Andrew says, reflecting on the SNAP benefits case now before the Supreme Court. “What does it say that we're not prioritizing hunger as an issue?” Then, Mary brings listeners up to speed on the dizzying chain of events since Friday and where the SNAP case stands, even as the Senate and House appear to be moving towards reopening the government. And in honoring Veterans Day, Mary and Andrew dig into several issues affecting service members, including the latest filing in Trump v Illinois, and how to think about the term "regular forces", plus Judge Immergut’s final order prohibiting the National Guard deployment in Portland. And finally, Just Security’s co-editor in chief, Tess Bridgeman, joins to analyze what the law says— and doesn’t say-- about blowing up boats in international waters without a clear justification or congressional authorization. Further reading: The AtlanticWhy I Am Resigning.Collection: U.S. Lethal Strikes on Suspected Drug TraffickersWant to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Supreme Court’s landmark decision granting presidential immunity for official acts has reverberated in unprecedented ways since its issuance. One consequence, as Mary and Andrew note in their recent New York Times essay, is that rather than “preventing the weaponization of prosecutions, the court has unleashed it.” The co-hosts begin here, offering insights into the ongoing prosecutions of James Comey, Letitia James and the suspension of two assistant U.S. attorneys in DC. Next, they move to some updates on the National Guard domestic deployments, as several cases wind their way through the courts. And rounding out this episode, Mary and Andrew turn to the litigation around SNAP benefits and preview Wednesday’s tariff argument before the Supreme Court. Further Reading: New York TimesHow the Supreme Court Paved the Way for Revenge Prosecutionsfirst Sentencing Memorandumsecond Sentencing MemoWant to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The bulldozing of the East Wing of the White House late last week was shocking to much of the nation, Mary and Andrew included. They begin there with concerns, not only about preserving its rich history, but the ethical and legal questions that arise from the president using private donations to fund this ballroom build, and how the Anti-Deficiency Act might apply. Next, an update on National Guard deployments in the California case and the 9th Circuit’s issue of a temporary stay in Portland as they consider an en banc review. And last up, the boat strikes keep coming in the Caribbean -- and now in the Pacific, as the president continues to escalate tensions. Mary and Andrew address the thorny legal issues at play when the U.S. military kills suspected traffickers in international waters. A note to listeners: Since this episode was recorded, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced another set of boat strikes in the Pacific ocean that killed 14 people. Further reading: Here is the Letter from several Democratic Senators raising concerns about donations to the ballroom that Mary and Andrew spoke about. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Mary and Andrew begin this week with the latest in the Trump administration’s attempt to send National Guard troops into American cities. From the 9th Circuit comes a 2-1 decision lifting a lower court’s temporary block on deployments into Portland, Oregon. Plus: the government has asked the Supreme Court to weigh in on the use of National Guard troops in Chicago. Mary and Andrew analyze the legal repercussions of both, then move to reporting on a Trump administration promise to betray U.S. informants in order to secure a prison deal with El Salvador. And while a week feels like a year these days, the co-hosts review both John Bolton’s indictment last Thursday and James Comey’s recent motion to dismiss his case based on vindictive and selective prosecution. Before wrapping up this week, Mary and Andrew take a beat on last week’s oral arguments before the Supreme Court in Louisiana v Calláis that dealt directly with the Voting Rights Act and whether redrawing districts can be used to remedy disenfranchising voters in Louisiana. Further Listening/Reading: The State of the United States: A Conversation with Jack SmithRubio promised to betray U.S. informants to get Trump’s El Salvador prison deal.Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On October 8, 2025, President Trump deployed the Texas National Guard to the Chicago area – marking yet another instance of military force being used domestically under his leadership. This follows earlier deployments of federal troops to states like California and Oregon. These actions point to a deeply troubling pattern: the use of U.S. military forces – trained to defend the nation from foreign threats – against its own citizens. Mary McCord, Executive Director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection and a Visiting Professor of Law at Georgetown University Law Center, joins WITHpod to discuss the legal and ethical implications of this alarming trend – and what it means for democracy. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Jen Psaki is on a mission to show us how the Democratic party can use this political moment to fight and win again. On Season 2 of her podcast, “The Blueprint,” she interviews the people reshaping the party, starting with Texas Congressman Greg Casar, Chair of the Progressive Caucus. The first two episodes of “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki” are available now, and will continue to drop every Wednesday, from now through mid-November. Stay right here to listen to a special preview. And for the full episode, search for “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki” and follow the show. Plus, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad-free listening. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Last Thursday, New York Attorney General Letitia James was indicted by a grand jury on two counts. This, on the heels of former FBI Director James Comey’s arraignment, where pre-trial motions were granted around vindictive and selective prosecution. Mary and Andrew use these two examples to explain why targeting individuals instead of crimes violates some of the Justice Department’s most sacred norms. Next, they walk through the latest court battles around federalized National Guard troops in Oregon and Illinois, with a 7th Circuit ruling in Chicago and oral arguments in the 9th circuit over the Portland deployment. Last comes a notable article from Professor Caleb Nelson, one of the nation’s foremost originalist legal scholars, who questions granting increasing executive authority to the presidency. Further reading: Special Feature: Must Administrative Officers Serve at the President’s Pleasure?Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Democrats are looking to regain power, and there is a whole lot of warranted debate about what a winning formula looks like. “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki” is a forum where those discussions take place. On season two of her podcast, Jen sits down with some of the biggest names on the left side of the political spectrum to talk about confronting Trump 2.0 and how the Democratic party can shape the future they’d like to see. New episodes drop October 15th. Search for “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki” to follow the show. And subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad-free listening. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Military action is a stark theme this week, as Oregon and Illinois sue the Trump administration over its attempts to federalize National Guard troops for deployment into both states. Mary and Andrew break down not one, but two temporary restraining orders that block deployments to Oregon, as Trump appointed Judge Karin Immergut cites Trump’s own words to show the facts don’t support what he alleges about “war ravaged” cities. Then, they dig into the administration's fourth deadly boat strike on alleged drug traffickers near Venezuela, highlighting how the lack of apparent legal authority might play out, as Attorney General Pam Bondi answered questions from the Senate Judiciary committee Tuesday. Last up, Andrew and Mary turn to two consequential decisions that don’t bode well for the Trump administration: one decision out of Boston, barring efforts to deport non-citizen activists; and a second finding of a “likelihood of vindictive prosecution” from a Nashville judge as it relates to the seeming retaliatory charges against Kilmar Abrego-Garcia. Further reading: Top prosecutor is rejecting Trump pressure to charge New York AGWhat the Senate Judiciary Committee Should Ask A.G. Bondi on Drug Cartel StrikesImmergut’s First TROImmergut’s Second TROWant to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In Mary and Andrew’s estimation, there is no effort from the Trump administration to say things softly, the quiet part is very much out loud. They begin with the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey by Trump’s newly installed U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, Lindsey Halligan, noting how much these targeted charges upend the tradition of a separation between the White House and the Justice Department. The next stop is Portland Oregon, where the president announced his intent to deploy troops to the city in a Saturday Truth Social post, calling it “war ravaged”. Oregon immediately sued to stop the national guard deployment, so Mary and Andrew catch listeners up on where this stands and what to expect. And last, they turn to Trump’s domestic terror memorandum, announcing his intent to investigate left-leaning groups he suggests may be funding political violence. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

President Trump’s pressure campaign to take action against perceived adversaries is unrelenting. Mary and Andrew start this week by breaking down a public push for Attorney General Pam Bondi to prosecute Trump’s political foes, just as Virginia’s U.S. Attorney was ousted for failing to bring charges against Letitia James and Jim Comey. The focus then turns to the government’s attempt to control critics and silence opposition after last week’s abrupt suspension of Jimmy Kimmel, backed by FCC Chair Brendan Carr, as well as what the president designating ANTIFA as a “terrorist organization” actually means. On the flip side comes the effort to dismiss investigations into those aligned with Trump’s cause. See MSNBC’s reporting on the FBI bribery investigation into “Border Czar” Tom Homan that was shut down after Trump returned to office. And last up: Mary shares the reasoning behind a court's decision to block the removal of dozens of Guatemalan children, citing that the governments explanation "crumbled like a house of cards.” And a reminder: There are still tickets available for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Last week’s fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk was deeply disturbing, and as Andrew establishes at the start, “murder is murder” and those responsible must be held to account. So Mary and Andrew begin with where the investigation stands and how the FBI has handled the case, as well as the lawsuit filed against FBI Director Kash Patel over alleged politically motivated firings at the Bureau. Then, co-editor-in-chief of Just Security, Ryan Goodman stops in to share his research around the end of “the presumption of regularity” in the Trump era, amid growing frustration from many lower courts. And lastly, Andrew and Mary dig into the latest twists and turns in the President’s attempt to fire Fed Governor Lisa Cook. A note to listeners: After today’s recording, Tyler Robinson was charged with felony aggravated murder, among other charges. Further reading: Here is Ryan Goodman’s research in Just Security: The “Presumption of Regularity” in Trump Administration Litigation And a reminder: There are still tickets available for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode begins with Mary and Andrew digesting the 2-1 decision from the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals halting the Trump administration’s ability to use the Alien Enemies Act to deport Venezuelan nationals accused of being members of Tren de Aragua. Andrew calls the administration’s recent arguments “outlandish” before moving to the questionable legality of the U.S. military’s deadly boat strike last week – an unprecedented action which left eleven dead. Next, they move to Monday’s Supreme Court decision undoing limits set by a lower court on how ICE conducts immigration raids. Plus, a federal judge issues a win for Harvard University on the topic of frozen and terminated funds. Further reading: The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals’ ruling on Trump’s invocation of the Alien Enemies Act to deport Venezuelans And a reminder: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

After a Labor Day weekend that saw a judge halt the Trump administration's attempt to deport dozens of Guatemalan children already loaded onto airplanes, Andrew and Mary had planned to start their conversation there. But just this morning, Judge Charles Breyer ruled the administration cannot deploy U.S. military to carry out law enforcement operations, as this violates the Posse Comitatus Act. Andrew and Mary provide historical context for the act and walk us through the rationale of this latest ruling. Then, they take a beat on moves to oust two more Trump appointed U.S. Attorneys in California and Nevada who have yet to be congressionally approved. And last up, they review several big cases on tariffs, Lisa Cook, and cuts to foreign aid. Further reading: Trump’s lawsuit against Maryland federal judges.Opinion granting injunctive reliefAnd a reminder: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On Monday, after Kilmar Abrego Garcia was taken into ICE custody, Judge Paula Xinis temporarily barred the Trump administration from deporting him to Uganda. Mary and Andrew begin here, reminding listeners that the origin of his case stems from a mistake made by our government. Next, they detail the questionable nature of the FBI raid on former National Security Advisor John Bolton’s home and office before diving into some 30+ letters sent by Attorney General Pam Bondi to blue-leaning jurisdictions, with the aim of ending their sanctuary policies. Last up, Mary and Andrew drill down on Trump’s latest executive order related to a rapidly deployable National Guard unit, as he sharpens threats to send troops into more cities. Further reading: ADDITIONAL MEASURES TO ADDRESS THE CRIME EMERGENCY IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIAAmerica Tips Into FascismAnd a reminder: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's been another wild week, after the D.C. Attorney General sued the government for attempting to install the head of the D.E.A. as D.C.’s emergency police commissioner. Following an emergency hearing, US Attorney General Pam Bondi backed down and re-wrote the directive. But Andrew and Mary highlight why that’s just the start: it’s no longer just the D.C. National Guard being deployed in the nation’s capital, National Guard units from five other red states are being sent to the city, making a complicated stew of who’s in charge and who has jurisdiction. Next, they weave this thread into last week's trial over whether California’s National Guard performed law enforcement operations in Los Angeles, a potential violation of The Posse Comitatus Act. And with Russia and Ukraine so much in the news, Andrew offers some reflections from the 2019 Special Counsel’s report that exposes Russia’s long-held goal of taking over the Donbas region. And last up, Andrew and Mary fill listeners in on two DC Circuit cases that have their attention: a decision allowing the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to be dismantled and another that allows Trump to withhold billions in foreign aid. And a reminder: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

When “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength” we are living in an era of alternate facts. Mary and Andrew apply this Orwellian concept to what's happening this week, after President Trump cited section 740 of the Home Rule Act to federalize the DC police force and send in the national guard to the nation’s capital. They detail how the president was able to do this and why Congress will be the ultimate arbiter of this move. Then, they highlight some litigation befitting this theme, with Judge Breyer’s trial starting this week on the use of the national guard in Los Angeles, and some decisions including not to unseal grand jury testimony in the Ghislaine Maxwell case, plus an Appeals court blocking contempt proceedings in JGG. Last up, Andrew and Mary take a look at Judge Henderson’s opinion in the OMB case and why it deserves more attention than it’s received. Further reading: Here is President Trump’s letter to Congress citing section 740, courtesy of the New York Times. And some exciting news: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Accountability or weaponization? That's the question Andrew and Mary tackle in their 150th episode together, starting with the distraction of the Office of the Special Counsel's investigation into Jack Smith for possible Hatch Act violations. In other DOJ related matters, they give some context to the Trump administration’s continued battle to keep Alina Habba, a Trump ally, as New Jersey U.S. Attorney, just as The Legal Accountability Center filed bar complaints against lawyers who have represented Trump’s White House in court. In another sideshow, Andrew and Mary break down what to make of a report on the “Clinton Plan” emails, declassified amid the Epstein controversy. And last up, they detail the decision out of the 9th Circuit Court which upheld a pause on ICE raids in California. Further Reading: Here is the piece Andrew and his colleague Ryan Goodman wrote for Just Security in October 2024: Refuting the Latest Baseless Attacks Against Special Counsel Jack Smith Here is the 9th Circuit Court decision on ICE Raids: Appeal from the United States District Court for the Central District of California And some exciting news: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If it’s customary, it’s probably not happening in this Justice Department. Starting with the latest from the Epstein controversy, Andrew and Mary unpack what to make of the two days Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche spent interviewing Ghislaine Maxwell. This, after a Florida judge denied the release of Epstein grand jury transcripts last Wednesday.And in immigration related news, three decisions came through in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia saga, just as the first claim is filed against the U.S. over one man’s deportation to El Salvador without due process. Then, in an eye-popping move, Attorney General Pam Bondi’s office filed a misconduct complaint against Judge James Boasberg for “making improper public comments” about the President and his administration. And before wrapping up this week, Mary and Andrew give some context to the former J6 prosecutor who’s suing the administration over his abrupt firing. Further Reading: Here is the misconduct complaint filed against Judge Boasberg: Complaint Against United States District Court Chief Judge James E. Boasberg And some exciting news: tickets are on sale now for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. To buy tickets visit msnbc.com/live25. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.