On the Media

Elon Musk’s claims of fraudulent government spending contain some wild inaccuracies. On this week's On the Media, how the mythos surrounding tech entrepreneurs paved the way for MAGA’s embrace of Silicon Valley leaders. Plus, meet the scholars and librarians who helped the Allies win World War II. [01:00] Host Micah Loewinger looks at Elon Musk’s new role in the rightwing media ecosystem and how it’s driving policy. He talks to Will Oremus, tech reporter at The Washington Post, about DOGE and Elon Musk’s feuds with Reuters and Politico. [16:42] Micah Loewinger speaks with Becca Lewis, a postdoctoral researcher at Stanford University, about how an influential group of conservative thinkers in Silicon Valley have long seen new technologies as tools for restoring older social orders [32:41] Brooke Gladstone talks to Elyse Graham, professor of sociology at Stony Brook University and author of Book and Dagger: How Scholars and Librarians Became the Unlikely Spies of World War II. They discuss the role that academics, archivists, and librarians played in WWII intelligence gathering activities, and why the CIA invested in storytelling as a result. Further reading: Musk accused Reuters of ‘social deception.’ The deception was his.‘Headed for technofascism’: the rightwing roots of Silicon ValleyBook and Dagger: How Scholars and Librarians Became the Unlikely Spies of World War II On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

This week, the Senate will consider more of Trump’s Cabinet nominees, including his pick for FBI director, Kash Patel. For this midweek podcast, we're looking back at this conversation host Micah Loewinger had with Atlantic staff writer Elaina Plott Calabro, who charted Patel's rise to power, starting at the very beginning of his legal career. She explains how he came to loathe the media, and love Trump. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

The new administration is purging data from government websites and databases, such as the Department of Justice and the National Security Agency. On this week's On the Media, a historian shares the political playbook for rewriting the past in order to control the future. Plus, meet the different Christian groups vying for power at the White House. [01:00] Host Micah Loewinger looks at the White House’s purge of data and records. He talks to Dara Kerr, a reporter at the Guardian, about President Trump’s attempt to ramp up deportations and how ICE is fudging its numbers. Micah also speaks with Molly White, author of the newsletter “Citation Needed” and Wikipedia editor, about why Musk and others on the right are going after Wikipedia. [13:24] Host Brooke Gladstone talks to Jason Stanley, professor of philosophy at Yale University and author of the book Erasing History: How Fascists Rewrite the Past to Control the Future, about the narrative the new administration is constructing. [31:46] Brooke Gladstone hears from Matthew D. Taylor, author of The Violent Take It by Force: The Christian Movement That Is Threatening Our Democracy. They discuss the three Christian factions jostling for power in the new administration: the independent Charismatics like Trump’s faith adviser Paula White-Cain, the trad Catholics (represented by J.D. Vance), and the theobros (epitomized by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth). Further reading: US immigration is creating a mirage of mass deportations on Google searchElon Musk and the right’s war on WikipediaErasing History: How Fascists Rewrite the Past to Control the FutureThe second coming of Donald J. Trump On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Micah joins Anna Sale on Death, Sex and Money to revisit their 2023 conversation with Tasha Adams, ex-wife of Stewart Rhodes the founder of the Oath Keepers. Rhodes was convicted of seditious conspiracy for his role in the January 6th insurrection –– prosecutors argued that members of the Oath Keepers used force to block the results of the election. He was sentenced to 18 years in prison. Now he's out. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency has accessed sensitive information at the treasury and gutted the United States Agency for International Development. On this week’s On the Media, how a tech magazine scooped mainstream outlets with its reporting on the DOGE taskforce. Plus, at the Department of Justice, data wipes and mass firings target records of January 6. [01:00] Host Micah Loewinger sits down with Vittoria Elliott, reporter for WIRED covering platforms and power. This week WIRED has been covering Elon Musk’s rampage through the federal agencies, and has been the first to report on several key stories [12:51] Micah speaks with Ryan J. Reilly, who covers the Justice Department and federal law enforcement for NBC News, about President Donald Trump’s campaign of retribution against those in the Justice Department and Federal Bureau of Investigation who he feels unfairly targeted him and his followers. [26:09] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with Representative Don Beyer of Virginia to talk about Democrats' approach as President Trump challenges Congress’ power. Brooke also speaks with Ezra Levin, co-founder and co-executive director of the nonprofit Indivisible, about Democrats’ PR strategies, and the party’s resistance to using the Mitch McConnell playbook to push back against the G.O.P. Further reading: The Young, Inexperienced Engineers Aiding Elon Musk’s Government TakeoverThe US Treasury Claimed DOGE Technologist Didn’t Have ‘Write Access’ When He Actually DidTrump administration forces out multiple senior FBI officials and January 6 prosecutorsSedition Hunters: How January 6th Broke the Justice System“Here's How Democrats Can Stop Trump and Musk On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

According to the Financial Times, 225 out of Musk’s 616 tweets and retweets in the first week of January were about UK politics. Meanwhile, Musk has praised the prime minister of Italy, far-right politician Giorgia Meloni, describing her as “even more beautiful on the inside than on the outside.” At a time when his company SpaceX is reportedly in talks for a billion dollar contract with the Italian government. And then there’s his entrance into the German political scene; showing up to AFD rallies and more. Micah spoke to Bojan Pancevski, chief European political correspondent at The Wall Street Journal, about Elon Musk’s political profile in Germany, and its consequences. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

President Donald Trump has signed dozens of executive orders since returning to office. On this week’s On the Media, how the directives are butting heads with existing laws. Plus, what the DeepSeek saga reveals about American A.I. [01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with Dahlia Lithwick, a senior editor at Slate and host of the podcast Amicus, to discuss Donald Trump’s attempt to freeze billions of dollars in federal funding, the legality of the president’s litany of executive orders, and how political paralysis is the point. [21:00] Brooke speaks with Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast and author of the newsletter Where’s Your Ed At on how the release of a new Chinese AI chatbot model, DeepSeek-R1, threatens to burst the American A.I. bubble, and how tech moguls have gotten away with overhyping A.I. for years. [38:14] Brooke continues the conversation with Ed Zitron, peeling back the facade to explore what generative A.I. can actually do. Further reading: How Will the Supreme Court Respond to Trump’s Budget-Freeze Power Grab?Trump’s First Flurry of Executive Orders Plagued by a Surprising ProblemDeep ImpactGodot Isn't Making itBubble Trouble On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

When OpenAI launched ChatGPT in November 2022, all the big tech firms were clamoring to make their own versions of the “intelligent” chatbot. Billions of dollars have been thrown into the technology – training the models, creating more advanced computer chips, building data centers. But last week, a Chinese artificial intelligence company called DeepSeek released a generative AI model that is not only competitive with the latest version of OpenAI’s model, but it was done cheaper, in less time, and with less advanced hardware. For this midweek podcast extra, host Brooke Gladstone sat down with Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast and writer of the newsletter “Where’s your Ed at,” to talk about how this new Chinese AI model threatens to burst the American tech AI bubble. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

President Donald Trump’s second term began with a flurry of executive orders and press. On this week’s On the Media, how to navigate the onslaught of news. Plus, executives at major outlets are telling reporters to tone down coverage of the new administration. And, what we can learn about Trump by looking at the legacy of his favorite president, William McKinley. [01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone on the flood of executive orders emerging from President Trump’s return to the Oval Office, and how the chaos is the point. Plus, host Micah Loewinger explores the role of fear in stymying action and understanding. [18:55] Micah Loewinger speaks with Oliver Darcy, author of the newsletter Status and former CNN media reporter, on how media execs are instructing reporters to tone down their Trump coverage, and how current political journalism compares to that of four years ago. [34:21] Brooke Gladstone speaks with Chris Lehmann, the DC Bureau chief for The Nation and a contributing editor at The Baffler, on what we can learn from President Donald Trump's role model, President William McKinley. Further reading: What ‘Mass Deportation’ Actually MeansThe Invasion of the Body SnatchersDonald Trump Is Building a Bridge to 1896 On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

We are living in history all of the time. Nevertheless, there are some times that seem more historical than usual. Like now, when academics and artists and even librarians have come under attack. We mention this particular sign of these times because of a new, delightful book by historian Elyse Graham, professor of Sociology at Stony Brook University called “Book and Dagger - How Scholars and Librarians Became the Unlikely Spies of World War Two." The book is a breezy and enthralling read, but assiduously footnoted for those who might question her very compelling argument that without this unheralded corp of peculiar recruits, that war might very well have been lost. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

The Supreme Court has upheld a ban on TikTok. On this week’s On the Media, hear how the ruling could affect other media companies, and where TikTokers are going next. Plus, California’s latest wildfires are devastating, but they’re not unprecedented. [01:00] Host Micah Loewinger sits down with David Cole, professor of law and public policy at Georgetown University, and former National Legal Director of the American Civil Liberties Union, to discuss what the Supreme Court TikTok ban could mean for all kinds of media companies. [16:39] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Ryan Broderick, tech journalist, host of the podcast Panic World, and author of the newsletter “Garbage Day,” on the great TikTok migration to RedNote, and what the platform’s potential ban means for the future of the Internet. [35:08] Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Rebecca Solnit, author of A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise in Disaster, on what she, a California native, has found shocking but not surprising about the Los Angeles fires. Further reading: Free Speech for TikTok?America's youth longs for Chinese e-commerce,TikTok doesn't need AmericaThe chronicle of a fire foretoldA Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise in Disaster On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

There have been hints dropped that the incoming administration intends to shake up the White House briefing room to potentially allow in more podcasters and outlets friendly to Trump. Whether or not it happens, the threats set the tone for another period of bad relations with the press corps. Time Magazine’s Olivia Waxman told Brooke back in 2017 that it was ever thus. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

NPR and PBS stations are bracing for war with the incoming Trump administration. On this week’s On the Media, the long history of efforts to save—and snuff out—public broadcasting. Plus, the role of public radio across the country, from keeping local governments in check to providing life-saving information during times of crisis. [01:00] Hosts Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger explore the history of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and break down the funding with Karen Everhart, managing editor of Current. [06:59] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Senator Ed Markey of Massachusetts, a member of the Subcommittee on Communications, Media, and Broadband, which oversees the Corporation For Public Broadcasting, on his decades-long fight with Republican lawmakers to keep NPR and PBS alive. [13:44] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with Mike Gonzalez, a senior fellow at The Heritage Foundation, who authored a part of the foundation’s Project 2025 chapter on ending CPB funding. [34:26] Hosts Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger on how public radio stations across the country work to hold local governments accountable, ft: Scott Franz of KUNC in Colorado, Matt Katz formerly of WNYC, and Lindsey Smith of Michigan Public. [00:00] Host Micah Loewinger takes a deep dive into the role of public radio during crises, ft: Tom Michael, founder of Marfa Public Radio and Laura Lee, news director for Blue Ridge Public Radio. [00:00] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with Sage Smiley, news director at KYUK in Bethel, Alaska, to talk about the station’s life-saving coverage of the Kuskokwim Ice Road in southwestern Alaska, and what the region would lose without public radio. Further reading: End of CPB funding would affect stations of all sizesIs there any justification for continuing to ask taxpayers to fund NPR and PBS?Should New Jersey Democratic Officials Keep Jailing Immigrants for ICE?A secret ballot system at Colorado’s statehouse is quietly killing bills and raising transparency concernsNot Safe to DrinkThe Rock House Fire: 5 Years Later On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

In the aftermath of the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol in January 2021, politicians, pundits, and the American public condemned the violence—while many considered Donald Trump responsible for what had happened. In a few weeks, Trump will be sworn in for a second term at the very same place rioters overran four years ago. For this midweek podcast extra, host Micah Loewinger sat down with Dan Barry, senior writer at The New York Times and co-author of the recent article, “‘A Day of Love’: How Trump Inverted the Violent History of Jan. 6,” to talk about how Trump and his allies diligently worked to rewrite the American memory of that day, and why they were so successful. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

The complete story of American imperialism is missing from our history books. On this week’s On the Media, how the United States worked to capture territory and expand power, while preaching democracy and freedom. [01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with historian Daniel Immerwahr, on the hidden history of the United States empire. For Americans, empire often means economic and military power abroad, or CIA coups in Central America–not British-style imperialism. But the American empire was — and in some ways continues to be — a lot closer than most people realize. Immerwahr explains the role of guano — bird poop — in launching America's overseas empire, and the legal, political and social clashes that ensued. [17:57] Host Brooke Gladstone continues her conversation with historian Daniel Immerwahr, exploring why, at the dawn of the last century, the arguments over imperialism didn’t end with poets like Rudyard Kipling and writers like Mark Twain. How should the adolescent U.S., big-headed about its democratic values, grapple with capturing territory? Immerwahr explains how this vital debate blazed across America’s consciousness like a comet, then vanished just as quickly. [34:47] Host Brooke Gladstone and historian Daniel Immerwahr conclude their conversation, discussing how, after World War II, global anti-colonial sentiment (combined with less dependence on natural resources) led to a shrinking of America's physical empire. But the American empire didn't disappear — it merely changed form. This originally aired in our April 5, 2019 program, “Empire State of Mind.” Further reading/listening/watching: How To Hide An Empire: A History of the Greater United States, On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

With Trump’s imminent return to the White House, we’ve decided to take stock of how political and journalistic norms have evolved over the years. For this week’s midweek podcast, we’re sharing an episode from Radiolab that aired in October, on the whirlwind history of Gary Hart, a young charismatic Democrat who in 1987 was poised to win his party’s nomination and possibly the presidency – until a bombshell sex scandal derailed it all. Brooke Gladstone and Radiolab co-host Latif Nasser discuss that history, and why sex scandals don’t really matter anymore. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

It’s been almost a year since the historic music outlet Pitchfork shrank considerably. On this week’s On the Media, why the distinctive voices in music journalism are worth saving. Plus, how AI music generators could upend the industry. [01:00] Host Micah Loewinger, speaks with Ann Powers, critic and correspondent for NPR Music, on Condé Nast's acquisition of the influential music publication Pitchfork, and what this means for the future of music journalism. [12:45] Host Micah Loewinger speaks to Kyle Chayka, staff writer at The New Yorker, about how algorithms are changing how people discover and listen to music – and all too often, not for the better. [28:39] Former OTM producer, and current composer and sound designer, Mark Henry Phillips, on how AI music generators could fundamentally upend the industry for good. Further reading: With Pitchfork in peril, a word on the purpose of music journalism"Why I Finally Quit SpotifyA segment from this show originally aired on our January 19, 2024 program, Trouble at The Baltimore Sun, and the End of an Era for Pitchfork. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

For the new documentary, The Bibi Files, director Alexis Bloom uses hundreds of hours of leaked, previously unseen interrogation footage of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, his wife Sara, his son Yair, his staff and inner circle – to trace how the corruption charges against Netanyahu and Israel’s war on Gaza have converged. On this week’s midweek podcast, we re-air a conversation between Brooke Gladstone and Israeli journalist Raviv Drucker, one of the main guides through The Bibi Files, to discuss his role in the documentary and how Netanyahu’s corruption cases act as the “engine” that drives the wider conflict in the region. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Donald Trump has a big plan to remake American universities. On this week’s On the Media, hear how the distinctly American idea of “diversity” has fallen out of favor—from higher education to the Supreme Court. Reporter Ilya Marritz explains how the deep history of Harvard and the concept of “diversity” is the hidden subtext for much of the recent strife. In the past half-century, the academy (and the business world) embraced the idea of diversity as a social good–an idea developed at Harvard and endorsed by the Supreme Court, until the latter ended race-based affirmative action in 2023. This episode also looks at what’s in store for universities as the incoming Trump-Vance administration promises to pressure them to change curricula. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

This year was earth’s hottest on record, and the Atlantic storm season brought with it five major hurricanes. And yet in December, the Pew Research Center found that only some 20 percent of Americans expect to make major sacrifices in their lifetime due to the climate crisis. According to writer Nathaniel Rich, when it comes to planning for a fraught future, New Orleans sets an example the rest of the country would be wise to follow. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.