Clever with Amy Devers

Artist and designer Dennis Maher has spent decades exploring the life cycles of buildings. After studying architecture at Cornell, he moved to Buffalo, New York—where a job in demolition introduced him to the visceral reality of the built environment constantly breaking down and rebuilding itself. That experience sparked a practice rooted in salvaged materials, forgotten objects, and the imaginative transformation of ordinary spaces. Maher’s work now spans sculptural installations, living environments, and his most ambitious project: The Assembly House, an evolving artwork housed inside a historic church that also serves as a training ground for the building arts. Part immersive artwork, part cultural attraction, part educational engine, The Assembly House teaches people to build while reconnecting them to the tactile, communal experience of craft. Through what he calls “architectural dream worlds,” Maher explores how memory, materials, and imagination reshape the way we understand the spaces we inhabit—and the role we play in building them. Images and more from Dennis Maher on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Apply to participate in Emerging Designers Spotlight LIVE Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix Studio Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oscar-winning costume designer Deborah L. Scott grew up sewing doll clothes, puppets, and getting swept up by the stories at the cinema. At 21 she went to work costuming show girls on the Vegas strip. Once in film, her adaptability, imagination, and resourcefulness carved a path that led to projects with Steven Spielberg and James Cameron, and onto sets of the biggest films of our time. Images, links and more from Deborah on cleverpodcast.com! Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. If you enjoy Clever we could use your support! Please consider leaving a review, making a donation, becoming a sponsor, or introducing us to your friends! We love and appreciate you! Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Rich Stroffolino, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Apply to participate in Emerging Designers Spotlight LIVE Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix Studio Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Public artist Michael Townsend grew up in a military family that relocated often—at least ten times during his childhood. He learned early how to explore new locales and seek out new friends before moving on to the next temporary hometown. His final relocation was to study art at RISD, when he chose Providence as home—and began quietly reshaping it. He founded the Tape Art movement in 1989 and built a thriving practice rooted in ephemeral public murals, deeply private underground installations, and highly clandestine collaborations, including the now-legendary Secret Mall Apartment. For more than 30 years, he has created hundreds of temporary murals and collaborative public works around the world, including the 9/11 Hope Project and the invention of the BOOM! Projector. Now, with the success of the Secret Mall Apartment documentary on Netflix, it’s clear that he and his collaborators were deeply intentional about incubating that narrative until it was ready to be heard. Moving fluidly in and out of the shadows—showing up, making an impression, then dissolving underground only to emerge again—turns out Michael himself may be a work of ephemeral art. Images and more from Michael Townsend on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix Studio Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When her life collided with a high-profile murder trial, longtime true-crime devotee Stephanie Tinsley found an unexpected path into creative agency and advocacy. After a career in sales and private equity, everything shifted when her husband, attorney Mark Tinsley, was thrust into the spotlight during the Murdaugh murder trials. In this episode, she and Amy discuss the making of Everything They Missed, the inner resources she had to marshal to tell the story well, and why centering human dignity is her driving force in true-crime storytelling. Images and more from Stephanie Tinsley on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix Studio Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Designer, craftsman, artist and educator, Norman Teague, grew up in Chicago absorbing the sounds, colors, textures and vibes of his “hood,” fancy cars, and Auntie Aretha’s painting. A highschool Drafting elective was his first real step into the design field, which he then traversed with aplomb through an MFA at SAIC, to the Venice Architecture Biennale, to MoMA, to the design team of the Obama Presidential Center. At the helm of his namesake design studio, he’s built a storied, critically acclaimed career, and a powerful legacy of challenging the design canon, cultural storytelling, and educating generations of future designers. Images and more from Norman Teague on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix Studio Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Chief Creative Officer of Bruce Mau Design, Laura Stein grew up on Nun’s Island outside of Montreal, a near utopia where kids never had to cross the street. Her psychiatrist father and museum-involved mother cultivated curiosity about emotions, critical thinking, and the arts. A move to Texas in her teens resulted in quite a culture shock. Laura found an innate knack for peer reviews and analysis, which became a strength throughout the rest of her academic and professional career. Originally graduating with a degree in English, she returned to school to study art, where she found not only her community, but her band mates. From there, it was a wild ride - record signing (Sub Pop,) touring, and navigating all the ups and downs of being in a girl band in the ‘90s – the ultimate creative boot camp. Now in leadership at Bruce Mau Design, she’s deploying the wisdom garnered from all these experiences to build a culture focused on keeping possibility alive. Images and more from Laura Stein on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSub-Zero, Wolf, and Cove's Kitchen Design Contest Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For over 40+ years, Mick De Giulio has been dedicating his talents to designing kitchens that sing. It all starts with listening, and the results are masterpieces of flow, proportion, beauty, utility and emotional resonance. A devotee of craft, he’s known for having an unusual command of detail and materials. He brings it all together in service of designing dynamic shared spaces that foster connection, care and magic moments. The author of two books, Kitchen Centric and Kitchen, with a third out in 2026, he is an unmatched leader in the field who also supports the industry and elevates the art of kitchen design by way of the Sub-Zero, Wolf and Cove Kitchen Design Contest. Images and more from Mick De Giulio on our website! Thanks to Sub-Zero Wolf and Cove for sponsoring this episode! Learn more about the Kitchen Design Contest and submit your application here: https://www.subzero-wolf.com/trade-resources/kitchen-design-contest Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSub-Zero, Wolf, and Cove's Kitchen Design Contest Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cas Holman grew up playing make-believe in the woods and helping her mechanic step-dad fix cars and dune buggies. Always knowing that she didn’t check the stereotypical gender boxes, she never gave any of the other arbitrary “boxes” much credit either, instead preferring to focus on the outside-the-box possibilities that could be accessed through play, curiosity, and exploration. While getting her MFA, she began working on Geemo, a building toy, which kicked-off her life’s mission of designing for play. Since then, she’s established herself as a champion of open-ended play, designing notable play systems like Rigamajig. She’s worked with global business leaders to incorporate play into company culture, leading to more innovative outcomes, greater trust and safety, and improved resilience. With her upcoming book, Playful, she is on a campaign to help adults reconnect with play throughout their lives because she knows, and has the research and science to prove it, that with play we ALL become more creative, joyful, and productive. Ain’t that good news! Images and more from Cas Holman on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSub-Zero, Wolf, and Cove's Kitchen Design Contest Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Bradley L. Bowers spent his youth hanging in the basement with Grandma Dorothy while she upholstered furniture. Always outspoken, in high school he found that only the art teachers embraced his questioning of the status quo. A fruitful spell at SCAD earned him Industrial & Furniture Design degrees + loads of skills, but it’s by tuning his antenna to the ‘little Yodas everywhere’ that he gathers his wisdom. Images, links and more from Bradley on cleverpodcast.com! Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSub-Zero, Wolf, and Cove's Kitchen Design Contest Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Designer, researcher and author Ingrid Fetell Lee spent her childhood traveling back and forth between divorced parents, indulging her curiosity during unstructured time, and losing herself in books and her journal. Her professional path routed her through creative writing, market research and industrial design on the way to dedicating her life to the study of joy, and helping people understand the very profound effects our surroundings have on our well-being. It’s powerful and paradigm-shifting work! Images and more from Ingrid on cleverpodcast.com! Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. This episode of Clever is created, hosted and produced by Amy Devers and Jaime Derringer with music from El Ten Eleven and editing by Rich Stroffolino. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSub-Zero, Wolf, and Cove's Kitchen Design Contest Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For over 40+ years, Mick De Giulio has been dedicating his talents to designing kitchens that sing. It all starts with listening, and the results are masterpieces of flow, proportion, beauty, utility and emotional resonance. A devotee of craft, he’s known for having an unusual command of detail and materials. He brings it all together in service of designing dynamic shared spaces that foster connection, care and magic moments. The author of two books, Kitchen Centric and Kitchen, with a third out in 2026, he is an unmatched leader in the field who also supports the industry and elevates the art of kitchen design by way of the Sub-Zero, Wolf and Cove Kitchen Design Contest. Images and more from Mick De Giulio on our website! Thanks to Sub-Zero Wolf and Cove for sponsoring this episode! Learn more about the Kitchen Design Contest and submit your application here: https://www.subzero-wolf.com/trade-resources/kitchen-design-contest Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSub-Zero, Wolf, and Cove's Kitchen Design Contest Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Designer Liz Ogbu grew up in Oakland as the daughter of Nigerian immigrants, but it wasn’t until her first trip to Nigeria at 16 that she grasped the profound role place, family, and cultural context play in shaping who we are—and what we create. Drawn to the creative possibilities of architecture, she studied both architecture and engineering before traveling across Africa on a Watson Fellowship, an experience that sharpened her understanding of who her work is ultimately for: the people most impacted by design. Today, Liz is catalyzing what design can do—in transforming informal marketplaces, helping communities heal after being fractured by freeways, and weaving practices of grief, accountability, and repair into the built environment. Her work transcends traditional architecture, centering the excavation of harm and the pursuit of more empathetic, community-rooted design at a moment when it’s needed more than ever. Images and more from Liz Ogbu on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSub-Zero, Wolf, and Cove's Kitchen Design Contest Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you caught last week’s interview with Stephanie Tinsley, you heard a compelling, second chapter creative journey in which she summons her inner strengths and plunges herself into the world of investigative podcasting. This week, we’re presenting an episode of Everything They Missed, Stephanie Tinsley’s gripping new true-crime podcast reexamining the 2007 murder of Danny Harris — a case officially closed, but full of unanswered questions. Episode 1, “Protocol,” exposes a disturbing crime scene, a baffling timeline, and an investigative response that feels far too casual. As Stephanie digs deeper, overlooked evidence and unheard voices suggest the truth may still be out there. Protocol | The First 48 Hours After Danny Harris’s Murder Danny Harris, a father of four and military vet, is found murdered in his Tennessee apartment. The scene was savage: blood on the walls, air fresheners failing to hide the stench, a towel jammed so far down his throat it drove a tooth into his lung. His body, undiscovered, for two months. But the nightmare inside that room was only the start. Now, host Stephanie Tinsley pulls it apart piece by piece, asking the question many people would rather stay buried: Did Danny Harris get the justice he deserves? Episode 1, Protocol, follows the Memphis investigation from its first hours: evidence overlooked, leads opening and closing, and questions that would haunt the case for years. What investigators missed at the crime scene would shape everything that followed. Stephanie Tinsley is married to Mark Tinsley, the attorney who represented the family of Mallory Beach in the high-profile Murdaugh case. Living through one of the most sensational trials in recent history gave her a close view of how justice can falter. Today, she brings that perspective to investigating wrongful convictions and exposing the cracks in America’s justice system. Listen to Everything They Missed —------------------------------------------------------- Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix Studio Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When her life collided with a high-profile murder trial, longtime true-crime devotee Stephanie Tinsley found an unexpected path into creative agency and advocacy. After a career in sales and private equity, everything shifted when her husband, attorney Mark Tinsley, was thrust into the spotlight during the Murdaugh murder trials. In this episode, she and Amy discuss the making of Everything They Missed, the inner resources she had to marshal to tell the story well, and why centering human dignity is her driving force in true-crime storytelling. Images and more from Stephanie Tinsley on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix Studio Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Molly Heintz grew up fascinated with Greek mythology, and eventually, fashion – drawn to enthralling storytelling and visual aesthetics. She carried this interest in Greek mythology over to studying archeology but when she became burned out in academia, she transitioned to work as a fashion editor, setting her on an entirely new careerpath. From there, she worked in marketing and communications, eventually co-founding Superscript and teaching at SVA, chairing the Masters of Arts in Design Research, Writing & Criticism program. Together with Steven Heller, she’s co-edited The Education of a Design Writer to showcase exemplary design writing and share practical advice for writers. Molly makes a compelling case for why design writing is essential for the design process, and for understanding the world around us. Images and more from Molly Heintz on cleverpodcast.com! Special thanks to our sponsor! Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioFuture London Academyhttps://fla.wiki/4hQL1oR Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Clever Confidential is Clever’s offshoot series, where we dig into the darker side of design–the shadowy, sometimes sordid tales hiding under a glossy topcoat of respectable legacy. In Episode 4: Before Silicon Valley, there was Olivetti—an Italian design powerhouse on the brink of changing the world. But just as their revolutionary computer neared completion, tragedy struck. Visionary leader Adriano Olivetti and brilliant engineer Mario Tchou both died suddenly, their deaths cloaked in secrecy and Cold War paranoia. What really happened to them—and who stood to gain? Host Amy Devers and writer Andrew Wagner follow the trail of innovation, betrayal, and buried history to uncover how a company destined to shape the digital age was silenced... and why its story was nearly erased. Check out images of the Programma 101 and more about Olivetti on cleverpodcast.com Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Many thanks to our guest expert Barry Katz. Audio clips courtesy of Luca Cottini - Italian Innovators youtube video - CAMILLO & ADRIANO OLIVETTI. At the Origins of the Computer Age. Linkedin and instagram @italianinnovators Writing and research: Amy Devers, Andrew Wagner, Ilana Nevins Editing and Sound Design: Camille Stennis and Mark Zurawinski Theme Music: “Astronomy” by Thin White Rope courtesy of Frontier Records SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioCozy Earthcozyearth.com/pages/clever Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Emmy-nominated costume designer Virginia B. Johnson grew up with a “dragon mother,” which shaped her structured habits and her ability to work smoothly amid chaos. Her childhood was filled with intergenerational connection and crafting - learning sewing, embroidery, knitting and crocheting from a “flock of Filipina aunties,” which fostered not only a sense of community, but a foundational skill for her eventual career. Although she was a pre-med major in college, a serendipitous side gig in a college theater costume shop sparked a passionate pivot to a career that now includes critically-acclaimed and award-winning projects like Hillbilly Elegy and American Primeval, and the opportunity to lead teams in the art of deploying deep craft and rigorous, reverent cultural authenticity to drive powerful storytelling. Images and more from Virginia B. Johnson on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioCozy Earthcozyearth.com/pages/clever Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Julia Watson, a landscape architect, author, and educator, developed a passion for global cultures and knowledge as a child in Australia, inspired by her parents' National Geographic collection. She has since dedicated her career to exploring traditional knowledge systems and their application to contemporary design challenges like extreme weather, waste management, and population growth. At the heart of Watson's work is a profound respect for indigenous knowledge systems and a commitment to applying Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK) to climate-adaptive design. Through her work with Lo-TEK, including the recently launched Lo-TEK Office for Intercultural Urbanism, and her books, Lo-TEK: Design by Radical Indigenism and the upcoming Lo-TEK Water (November 30 release), she strives to facilitate the equitable exchange and implementation of indigenous knowledge and technology to the crucial and complex challenges of our evolving world. Images, links and more from Julia Watson on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor - Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSailySailyhttps://saily.com/cleverCozy Earthcozyearth.com/pages/cleverIncogni: incogni.com/clever Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Graphic designer Aaron Draplin was born in Michigan and raised on LEGO bricks, pizza nights, punk rock & snowboarding. He spent early adulthood rolling with the “crusty undercurrent of f*ckheads” that lives to snowboard before he ventured to Minneapolis to study design amongst the ghosts of his musical heroes. He’s seen some high-falutin’ stuff at the museum, but the steelyard is where it’s at. He’s all about working hard, making a sh*t whack of money, taking care of his people, and having some fun along the way. Thanks to Adobe Max for hosting us in the Airstream podcast lounge. Images and more from Aaron on cleverpodcast.com! Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. This episode of Clever is created, hosted and produced by Amy Devers and Jaime Derringer with music from El Ten Eleven and editing by Jennie Josephson. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers If you enjoy Clever we could use your support! Please consider leaving a review, making a donation, becoming a sponsor, or introducing us to your friends! We love and appreciate you! Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSailySailyhttps://saily.com/cleverCozy Earthcozyearth.com/pages/cleverIncogni: incogni.com/clever Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cas Holman grew up playing make-believe in the woods and helping her mechanic step-dad fix cars and dune buggies. Always knowing that she didn’t check the stereotypical gender boxes, she never gave any of the other arbitrary “boxes” much credit either, instead preferring to focus on the outside-the-box possibilities that could be accessed through play, curiosity, and exploration. While getting her MFA, she began working on Geemo, a building toy, which kicked-off her life’s mission of designing for play. Since then, she’s established herself as a champion of open-ended play, designing notable play systems like Rigamajig. She’s worked with global business leaders to incorporate play into company culture, leading to more innovative outcomes, greater trust and safety, and improved resilience. With her upcoming book, Playful, she is on a campaign to help adults reconnect with play throughout their lives because she knows, and has the research and science to prove it, that with play we ALL become more creative, joyful, and productive. Ain’t that good news! Images and more from Cas Holman on our website! Special thanks to our sponsor: Wix Studio is a platform built for all web creators to design, develop, and manage exceptional web projects at scale. Clever is hosted & produced by Amy Devers, with editing by Mark Zurawinski, production assistance from Ilana Nevins and Anouchka Stephan, and music by El Ten Eleven. SUBSCRIBE - listen to Clever on any podcast app! SIGN UP - for our Substack for news, bonus content, new episode alerts VISIT - cleverpodcast.com for transcripts, images, and 200+ more episodes SAY HI! - on Instagram & LinkedIn @cleverpodcast @amydevers Special thanks to our sponsors! Wix StudioSailySailyhttps://saily.com/cleverCozy Earthcozyearth.com/pages/cleverIncogni: incogni.com/clever Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.