That Black Theatre Podcast

In the final episode of Series 1, we have a very special guest, the exceptional theatre director Ola Ince. We talk about her past and upcoming work, the future of Black theatre and what she wants to see change in the British theatre industry. Ola Ince is a director and dramaturg, who is an Associate Director at the Royal Court. She has directed many brilliant plays, including Appropriate at the Donmar Warehouse, The Convert and Dutchman at the Young Vic. Thank you so much Ola for your generosity and for speaking with us! If you want to follow Ola's work, you can find her website here: https://www.olaince.com/about Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre

This week we look at the last decade of Black British theatre and ask: have things really changed for Black theatre practitioners? We focus on two different plays: Natasha Gordon’s Nine Night, which is the first play on record by a Black British woman to be transferred to London’s West End, and Jasmine Lee-Jones’ Seven Methods of Killing Kylie Jenner. We talk about how Nine Night captured the imaginations of both Black and white audiences, portraying three generations of a Black British family in the wake of the 2018 Windrush ‘scandal’, while discussing death, racial politics and funeral rituals in Black communities that are often misunderstood in 21st century Britain. We were lucky enough to interview Jasmine Lee-Jones about her play Seven Methods of Killing Kylie Jenner, which brings the fetishization of the Black female body and the appropriation of Black cultures to the forefront, all through the prism of Black women’s lives in the digital age of social media. Thanks so much to Jasmine for chatting with us! Go listen to #HalfcastPodcast! To listen to the episode of #HalfcastPodcast that we discuss, follow the link here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/52CxfXI0XMbgir8rwismYG?si=J1IqyYPYTdquoEdWkf54eA Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre References: Gordon, N. (2018) Nine Night. London: NHB Lee-Jones, J. (2019) Seven Methods of Killing Kylie Jenner. London: Oberon Books Chambers, C. (2011) Black and Asian Theatre in Britain: A History. London & New York: Routledge. Gentleman, A. (2019) The Windrush Betrayal: Exposing the Hostile Environment. London: Guardian Faber Goddard, L. (2007) Staging Black Feminisms: Identity, Politics, Performance. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. Goddard, L. (2015) Contemporary Black British Playwrights: Margins to Mainstream. Hampshire, Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan. McMillan, M (2007) ‘Aesthetics of the West Indian Front Room’ in V. Arana (ed) “Black” British Aesthetics Today. Newcastle: Cambridge Scholars Publishing, pp.297-313

This week we have a really special guest, Mojisola Adebayo. We discuss ‘Afri-Queer Theatre’, Black queer stories in theatre, climate change and colonisation. Mojisola discusses their play Moj of the Antarctic, which was performed at the Lyric Hammersmith theatre in 2006 and Wind/Rush Generations. Mojisola Adebayo is a writer, playwright, poet, performer, workshop leader, facilitator, and educator. Moj is a prolific theatre-maker, and has worked on projects all around the globe, including, Brazil, Britain, India, Malawi, Norway, Palestine, Sweden, South Africa, Syria, the USA, and Zimbabwe. They have written many plays, which have been published in Mojisola Adebayo: Plays One: 1 and Mojisola Adebayo: Plays Two: 2. Thanks so much to Mojisola for chatting with us! Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre References: Adebayo, M. (2011) Mojisola Adebayo: Plays One: 1. London: Oberon Modern Playwrights. Adebayo, M. (2019) Mojisola Adebayo: Plays Two: 2. London: Oberon Modern Playwrights. Adebayo, M., Mason-John, V., & Osborne, D. (2009). ‘No Straight Answers’: Writing in the Margins, Finding Lost Heroes, New Theatre Quarterly, 25(1), pp.6-21. Chambers, C. (2011) Black and Asian Theatre in Britain: A History. London & New York: Routledge. Godiwala, D. (ed.) (2007) Alternatives Within the Mainstream II: Queer Theatres in Post-War Britain. Newcastle: Cambridge Scholars Press. Goddard, L. (2007) Staging Black Feminisms: Identity, Politics, Performance. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. Goddard, L. (2015) Contemporary Black British Playwrights: Margins to Mainstream. Hampshire, Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan. Johnson, E. P., Henderson, Mae, G. (2005) Black Queer Studies: A Critical Anthology. DUP Moll, E. (2015) "Gender, Authenticity, and Diasporic Identities in Adebayo's "Moj of the Antarctic" and Iizuka's "36 Views"." Comparative Drama 49, no. 2: pp.191-224.

This week we're continuing our discussion of the 2000s. We talk about how theatre can address the 'state of the nation', through the work of the brilliant playwright, Roy Williams. We were lucky enough to have an interview with Roy, who brilliantly discusses his plays 'Sing Yer Hearts Out for the Lads', 'Death of England' and 'Death of England: Delroy'. We discuss the connections between nationalism, football, race, class, and Brexit, which Roy's plays tackle with wit, humour and realism. Born in London, Roy Williams is an award-winning playwright. He was the first winner of the Alfred Fagon Award for his play, 'Starstruck'. His third play for the Royal Court, 'Fallout', won the 2003 South Bank Show Arts Council Decibel Award. He is a prolific writer, whose most recent play with Clint Dyer, 'Death of England: Delroy', discusses what it means to be a Black British man in 2020, in the wake of political and social upheaval. Thanks so much to Roy for chatting with us for this episode! Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre References: Roy Williams (2006) Sing Yer Hearts Out for the Lads. London: Methuen Drama. Roy Williams and Clint Dyer (2020) Death of England. London: Methuen Drama. Roy Williams and Clint Dyer (2020) Death of England: Delroy. London: Methuen Drama. Akala (2019) Natives: Race & Class in the Ruins of Empire. London: Two Roads. Mary F. Brewer, Lynette Goddard and Deirdre Osborne (2015) Modern and Contemporary Black British Drama. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. Colin Chambers (2011) Black and Asian Theatre in Britain: A History. London & New York: Routledge. Lynette Goddard (2015) Contemporary Black British Playwrights: Margins to Mainstream. Hampshire, Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan. Dan Rebellato (ed.) (2013) Modern British Playwriting: 2000-2009. London: Bloomsbury.

This week we discuss the question of whether there was a ‘renaissance’ in Black theatre during the 2000s and the work of debbie tucker green, with the prominent academic, Professor Lynette Goddard. We talk about the unprecedented mainstream presence of several Black playwrights in Britain during the 2000s, with specific focus on debbie tucker green’s play ‘random’, which details a day in the life of a Black British family which is tragically shaken through a random act of violence. Thanks so much to Lynette for offering your time and wisdom to this episode! Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre References debbie tucker green (2018) debbie tucker green plays: one. London: NHB Sian Adiseshiah, Jacqueline Bolton (ed.) (2020) debbie tucker green: critical perspectives. Hampshire, Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan. Mary F. Brewer, Lynette Goddard and Deirdre Osborne (2015) Modern and Contemporary Black British Drama. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan Colin Chambers (2011) Black and Asian Theatre in Britain: A History. London & New York: Routledge. Lynette Goddard (2007) Staging Black Feminisms: Identity, Politics, Performance. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. Lynette Goddard, ‘Lynette Goddard on the renaissance in black British drama in the 1990s’, The Black Plays Archive. https://www.blackplaysarchive.org.uk/featured-content/essays/lynette-goddard-rennaisance-black-british-drama-1990s Lynette Goddard (2015) Contemporary Black British Playwrights: Margins to Mainstream. Hampshire, Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan. Dan Rebellato (ed.) (2013) Modern British Playwriting: 2000-2009. London: Bloomsbury.

This week we have a really exciting episode: an interview and discussion dedicated to the brilliant and prominent playwright and academic, Winsome Pinnock. Winsome is one of the best-known playwrights working in Britain today. We were lucky enough to speak to her about what it means to be a Black playwright, the history of her work in theatre, how the British theatre industry has changed and what more work needs to be done, and her latest play, Rockets and Blue Lights. Sometimes referred to as the 'godmother' of Black British theatre, Winsome's plays are far-reaching in the themes they explore, spanning a variety of different political, historical and social issues; from drug trafficking to racial profiling, to migration and gender politics, to the Atlantic slave trade. Her awards include: The George Devine Award, Pearson Plays on Stage Award for best play, Unity Theatre Trust Award, Susan Smith Blackburn Prize Special Commendation, and Alfred Fagon Award for best new play 2018. Thank you so much to Winsome for chatting with us! To follow Winsome's work you can find her website here: https://winsomepinnock.co.uk/index.php Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre References: Winsome Pinnock (2020) Rockets and Blue Lights. London: NHB Winsome Pinnock (2018) Leave Taking. London: NHB Winsome Pinnock (2005) One Under. London: Faber & Faber. Winsome Pinnock (1996) Mules. London: Faber & Faber Winsome Pinnock (1993) ‘A Hero’s Welcome’ in Kadija George (ed) (2018) Six Plays by Black and Asian Women Writers. Twickenham: Aurora Metro Press, pp.23-70.

This week, we discuss the position of Black women playwrights in the 1980s and 1990s. We talk to Professor Lynette Goddard (Royal Holloway University) about the politics of representation and Black lesbian and queer playwrights, including Jackie Kay and Valerie Mason-John. We talk about Jackie Kay’s Chiaroscuro, which looks at sisterhood and the plurality of Black women’s experiences. We also include a clip and discussion from Valerie Mason-John’s play, Sin Dykes, which discusses inter-racial lesbian relationships, BDSM and legacies of racial trauma. Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre References: Jackie Kay (1987/2011) ‘Chiaroscuro’ in Lynette Goddard (ed.) The Methuen Drama Book of Plays by Black British Writers. London: Bloomsbury, pp.59-119 Valerie Mason-John (1998) Play script of Sin Dykes MPS 11988 (British Library, Archives and Manuscripts). Colin Chambers (2011) Black and Asian Theatre in Britain: A History. London & New York: Routledge. Peter Fryer (1984) Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain. London: Pluto Press. Peter Fryer (1985) Black People in the British Empire: An Introduction. London: Pluto Classics. Lynette Goddard (2007) Staging Black Feminisms: Identity, Politics, Performance. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. Dimple Godiwala (2006) Alternatives Within the Mainstream: British Black and Asian Theatre. Newcastle: Cambridge Scholars Press. Ashley Tellis (2007) ‘We Sinful Dykes: Lesbian Sexuality in Valerie Mason-John's Sin Dykes’ in Dimple Godiwala (ed.) Alternatives Within the Mainstream II: Queer Theatres in Post-War Britain. Newcastle: Cambridge Scholars Press, pp.239-247

This week we are looking at the 1980s, a time when there was a ‘boom’ in Black theatre production in Britain. We discuss the political and social changes that occurred in 1980s Britain, a decade of Thatcher’s Tory government, recession, and institutional racism. We look at Michael Abbensetts’ In the Mood, and Winsome Pinnock’s A Hero’s Welcome. Both of these plays talk about migration and the legacies of the Second World War in very different ways. Michael Abbensetts asks how radical black politics can work within conventional political institutions, while Winsome Pinnock creates a female-centered story about life in the West Indies after the war. Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre References: Michael Abbensetts (2001) Michael Abbensetts: Four Pays. London: Oberon. Winsome Pinnock (1993) ‘A Hero’s Welcome’ in Kadija George (ed) (2018) Six Plays by Black and Asian Women Writers. Twickenham: Aurora Metro Press, pp.23-70. Nicola Abram (2015) ‘Looking Back: Winsome Pinnock’s Politics of Representation’ in Brewer, Goddard and Osborne (ed.) Modern and Contemporary Black British Drama. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan, pp.95-112 Kehinde Andrews and Lisa Amanda Palmer (2016) Blackness in Britain. London: Routledge. Kehinde Andrews (2017) ‘How to stay radical within an institution’, TEDxYouth@Brum (YouTube video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFUymWxfrkQ Kehinde Andrews (2019) Back to Black: Black Radicalism for the 21st Century. London: Zed Books. Colin Chambers (2011) Black and Asian Theatre in Britain: A History. London & New York: Routledge. Peter Fryer (1984) Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain. London: Pluto Press. Peter Fryer (1985) Black People in the British Empire: An Introduction. London: Pluto Classics. Lynette Goddard (2007) Staging Black Feminisms: Identity, Politics, Performance. Basingstoke, Hampshire: Palgrave Macmillan. David Olusoga (2017) Black and British: A Forgotten History. London: Pan Books.

This week we are looking at the 1970s, a time of resistance and rebellion. We talk about the work of Mustapha Matura and Alfred Fagon amidst the realities of police brutality, anti-racist politics and Black Power in Britain and the USA. Mustapha Matura’s ‘Welcome Home Jacko’ and Alfred Fagon’s ‘The Death of a Black Man’ discuss Black politics, disenfranchisement, Black masculinity, Pan-Africanism and the appropriation of Black cultures during the 1970s. We discuss the legacies of these two great writers, with archival recordings from the Black Plays Archive. Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre References: Mustapha Matura (1980) ‘Welcome Home Jacko’ in Lynette Goddard (ed.) (2011) The Methuen Drama Book of Plays by Black British Writers. London: Bloomsbury, pp.1-59 Alfred Fagon (1999) ‘The Death of a Black Man’ in Alfred Fagon (1999) Alfred Fagon: Plays. London: Oberon, pp.87-149 Akala (2019) Natives: Race & Class in the Ruins of Empire. London: Two Roads. Kehinde Andrews (2019) Back to Black: Black Radicalism for the 21st Century. London: Zed Books. Colin Chambers (2011) Black and Asian Theatre in Britain: A History. London & New York: Routledge. Peter Fryer (1984) Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain. London: Pluto Press. Peter Fryer (1985) Black People in the British Empire: An Introduction. London: Pluto Classics. Lynette Goddard (2011) ‘Introduction’ in Lynette Goddard (ed.) (2011) The Methuen Drama Book of Plays by Black British Writers. London: Bloomsbury, pp.vii-xxvi David Olusoga (2017) Black and British: A Forgotten History. London: Pan Books. Michael Pearce (2017) Black British Drama: A Transnational Story. London: Routledge. Roland Rees (1999) ‘Introduction’ in Alfred Fagon (1999) Alfred Fagon: Plays. London: Oberon, pp.9-21

This week we are looking at the tumultuous 1960s, a time of civil unrest, civil rights, anti-colonial struggle, and international conflict. We talk about the work of Barry Reckord and Wole Soyinka amidst the political, social and cultural contexts of Britain, the USA and Nigeria during the 1960s. Wole Soyinka’s ‘The Lion and the Jewel’ and Barry Reckord’s ‘Skyvers’ discuss the contrasting social and political issues affecting people in South London and Nigeria respectively. While Reckord battles with class and gender amongst working-class youth, Soyinka critiques colonisation and celebrates traditional Yoruba culture. We delve into the significant work of these two, theatrical giants, and ask if we should bring these plays back to British theatre. Black Plays Archive website https: //www.blackplaysarchive.org.uk Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social @nationaltheatre References: Barry Reckord (2011) For the Reckord: A Collection of Three Plays by Barry Reckord. London: Oberon Books. Wole Soyinka (1962) The Lion and the Jewel. Oxford: OUP. Martin Banham (2013) ‘Critical Responses: Wole Soyinka’s The Lion and the Jewel. Royal Court Theatre, London, December 1966’, Black Plays Archive. https://www.blackplaysarchive.org.uk/featured-content/essays/critical-responses-wole-soyinka%E2%80%99s-lion-and-jewel-royal-court-theatre-london Colin Chambers (2011) Black and Asian Theatre in Britain: A History. London & New York: Routledge. Patricia Hill Collins & Sirma Bilge (2016) Intersectionality. Cambridge and Maldon: Polity Press. Peter Fryer (1984) Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain. London: Pluto Press. Peter Fryer (1988) Black People in the British Empire: An Introduction. London: Pluto. Stuart Hall (2019) 'The West and the Rest: Discourse and Power [1992]', David Morley (ed.) Stuart Hall: Essential Essays Vol. 2, Identity & Diaspora. Durham and London: Duke University Press, pp.141-185 bell hooks (1990) Yearning: Race, Gender, and Cultural Politics. London & New York: Routledge. David Olusoga (2017) Black and British: A Forgotten History. London: Pan Books. Michael Pearce (2017) Black British Drama: A Transnational Story. London: Routledge. Wole Soyinka (2002) ‘The Fourth Stage: Through the Mysteries of Ogun to the Origin of Yoruba Tragedy’ in Paul Carter Harrison et al. Black Theatre: Ritual Performance in the African Diaspora. Philadelphia: Temple University Press, pp.140-153

This week we are delving into a seminal point in Black British theatre, the 1950s. We look at the historical backdrop of the post-war period, mass immigration, and the Windrush Generation. Two important playwrights who were part of that generation were Errol John and Barry Reckord. Their plays ‘Moon on a Rainbow Shawl’ and ‘Flesh to a Tiger’, look at the lives of Black people in the Caribbean under colonial rule, and the motivations many people had for making the journey to live and work in Britain. We listen to an audio clip from the National Theatre’s 2012 production of ‘Moon on a Rainbow Shawl’ and talk about how these two playwrights navigate themes of class, race, religion and patriarchy in their work. Extract from ‘Moon on a Rainbow Shawl’ reproduced by permission of Peters Fraser & Dunlop (www.petersfraserdunlop.com) on behalf of the Estate of Errol John. The clip used from Moon on a Rainbow Shawl was from a revival in 2012, produced by the National Theatre. It was directed by Michael Buffong, with Danny Sapani playing Ephraim, and Martina Laird playing Sophia (Mrs Adams). Black Plays Archive website: https://www.blackplaysarchive.org.uk/ Contact National Theatre: archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social: @nationaltheatre References: Errol John (1958) Moon on a Rainbow Shawl. London: Faber & Faber Ltd. Barry Reckord (2011) For the Reckord: A Collection of Three Plays by Barry Reckord. London: Oberon Books. Yvonne Brewster (2011) 'Introduction' in Barry Reckord, For the Reckord: A Collection of Three Plays by Barry Reckord. London: Oberon Books, pp.11-17 Mary Chamberlain, (Spring 1998) 'I Belong to Whoever Wants Me', New Formations: Frontlines/Backyards, No. 33, London: Lawrence & Wishart, pp.47-59. Colin Chambers (2011) Black and Asian Theatre in Britain: A History. London & New York: Routledge. Peter Fryer (1984) Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain. London: Pluto Press. Lynette Goddard (4 Oct 2018) 'Migration stories in Errol John's Moon on a Rainbow Shawl', British Library. Read here: https://www.bl.uk/20th-century-literature/articles/migration-stories-in-errol-johns-moon-on-a-rainbow-shawl David Olusoga (2017) Black and British: A Forgotten History. London: Pan Books. Michael Pearce (2017) Black British Drama: A Transnational Story. London: Routledge.

This week we are looking at the 1930s and the first black woman playwright in the Black Plays Archive, the legendary Una Marson, and how she flourished in 1930s Britain. A trailblazer in every sense, Una Marson was a Jamaican poet, playwright, writer, activist. She was also the first black woman to be hired by the BBC. We interview the brilliant academic and novelist, Delia Jarrett-Macauley, about Una Marson’s legacy and two of her plays, ‘At What a Price’ and ‘Pocomania’. Una’s plays talk about religion, gender politics, and racism at a time where black women were rarely given the opportunity to do so. We ask what we might learn from Una’s plays if they were revived today. Black Plays Archive Website: https://www.blackplaysarchive.org.uk/ Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk National Theatre on social media @nationaltheatre Delia Jarrett-Macauley http://www.deliajarrettmacauley.com/ References: 'Pocomania and London's Calling' by Una Marson 'Una Marson' by British Library. https://www.bl.uk/people/una-marson 'The Life of Una Marson 1905-1965' by Delia Jarrett-Macauley 'Staying Power: The history of black people in Britain' by Peter Fryer 'Black and Asian Theatre in Britain' by Colin Chambers

In our first episode of That Black Theatre Podcast we talk about the wonderful Black Plays Archive, the focal point of our journey into black theatre history in Britain. We chat to a leading academic and previous manager of the Black Plays Archive, Natasha Bonnelame. We ask Natasha what the Black Plays Archive is, and why it’s important to tell a plurality of black stories on the stage. We talk about who is given access to knowledge and power, and what needs to change in the British theatre industry to represent black experiences. Black Plays Archive: https://www.blackplaysarchive.org.uk/ Email archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Follow the National Theatre on social media: @nationaltheatre Follow Natasha Bonnelame on social media: @saint_louis22 This podcast is created and written by Nadine Deller, co-hosted by Nadia Deller, and edited by James Felix. Music: 'African Moon' by John Bartmann: https://freemusicarchive.org/music/John_Bartmann/Public_Domain_Soundtrack_Music_Album_One

Welcome to That Black Theatre Podcast! Hosted by PhD student Nadine Deller and her sister Nadia Deller, we’re here to chat all things past, present and future about Black theatre and creativity. The first series launches on Monday 28 September 2020 with twelve episodes taking you through different decades of Black British theatre-making. We’ll be speaking to leaders of Black British theatre and sharing exclusive clips from plays in the Black Plays Archive. Guests include Mojisola Adebayo, Lynette Goddard, Ola Ince, Roy Williams, and more! Join us on Mondays for That Black Theatre Podcast. Black Plays Archive: https://www.blackplaysarchive.org.uk/ Email: archive@nationaltheatre.org.uk Social media: @nationaltheatre Music: 'African Moon' by John Bartman https://freemusicarchive.org/music/John_Bartmann/Public_Domain_Soundtrack_Music_Album_One