This Could Be Interesting

Iain McGilchrist is one of the most important intellectuals in the world right now (he's also my favorite thinker and philosopher and a personal hero). Part of the impact of his work is due to the thorough and rigorous research supporting his theories (more than 5,000 papers and essays and deep understanding of countless authors and artists and their work from both ancient contexts as well as the modern conversation about these things). The other, perhaps even more impactful reason for his importance is his engagement with what I think is one of the more dire crisis' in the developed world, which is that of "Meaning". Iain's work engages the scientific literature deeply which allows him to make some of the most inspiring and intellectually respectable claims about religious perspective and the "sense of the sacred" of any modern academic thinker. He has made strides and leaps towards the re-marriage of philosophy and science, a divorce that has played a huge part in the fracturing of western culture and the modern person's ability to grapple with a sense of "meaning" in life. Iain is both an intellectual maverick and an extremely personable and friendly person. Getting to talk with him for an hour was an absolute blessing and I'm so incredibly thankful to have had the chance to interact with him and have a conversation about some of the things I deeply feel are most worth talking about at this moment in time. Admittedly getting to talk to Iain was a bit of a geek out moment for me, so I apologize if my excitement shows. Speaking with him felt a bit like getting a chance to meet Kant or Hume or Nietzsche or someone doing historically important philosophical work while they were still alive, and I honestly deeply wonder if these aren't unfair comparisons. At least from my perspective in this moment, Iain is an absolute legend, and he may genuinely become one as time passes. Some other great talks with Iain: Rebel Wisdom with John Vervaeke and Iain McGilchrist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdB-B... Sam Harris and Iain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJRx9... Iain McGilchrist: Matter and Consciousness - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O1Q... Curt Jaimungal and Iain McGilchrist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-SgO... Iain McGilchrist: Deep Longing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ysEV... Rebel Wisdom: The Matter with Things - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U99dQ... Iain McGilchrist https://channelmcgilchrist.com/ https://www.amazon.ca/Master-His-Emis... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCW0L... https://twitter.com/dr_mcgilchrist Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvande... https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

John Vervaeke PhD is an associate professor in Psychology and Cognitive Science whose work focuses on meaning and the science of wisdom. He's an award-winning lecturer at the University of Toronto, with his classes ranging from psychology, cognitive science to Buddhist psychology. His popular youtube lecture series "Awakening From The Meaning Crisis" has been viewed hundreds of thousands of times and has struck a chord with many struggling in the modern day to engage with a sense of "meaning" in life. Awakening from the Meaning Crisis Lecture Series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY&list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ&index=1&t=1s NOTE: Due to my lack of professional camera equipment, I generally don't manage to get the whole conversation on video when I record (the limits of video on a non-video DSLR). Beyond that, the hard drive the video files for conversation were stored on failed shortly before editing and the files needed to be reconstructed with some special software, which caused certain sections to be glitched out and unusable, which is why you'll see a few moments where the video fades away and comes back. If you'd like to help support me in getting a proper camera set up to continue with this project, feel free to reach out at thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast @ gmail.com John Vervaeke https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke/featured http://johnvervaeke.com/ https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/ Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Alex Williamns has hosted over 10 (different) podcasts, so he's a pro. He's also an ex-Mormon, which is something that came up when I had the opportunity to be a guest on one of those podcasts (an episode still to be released). As soon as it came up, the topic threatened to take over our conversation, but I knew it deserved its own conversation another time. I asked Alex after our chat if he'd be willing to come on this project and chat about his experiences in the Mormon church, and he graciously agreed. Ever since someone first explained to me as a kid who the Mormons were and what they (approximately) believed in, my curiosity about what it would be like to grow up living in a "real cult" festered. Friends talked about how Mormons would knock on their doors and want to talk with them and a part of me always thought "Man, I wish they'd knock on my door. I want to know what these guys are all about and have a good long conversation". Well, I finally got my chance, at least sort of. Alex is no longer a believer but was generous enough to tastefully share some stories about his experience growing up in the community of the Latter Day Saints, what they believed, and what ultimately lead him to step away from his faith as an adult. It was deeply meaningful to me to get a chance to compare and contrast our stories as well as spend some time thinking about more meaningful ways to engage with family members and friends in beautiful ways despite parting ways in a religious context.\\ Alex Williamns https://mechoradio.com https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-wax-museum/id1397565082 Garrett Vandenberg Website https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ Twitter https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Dave Griffin is an actor, writer, creative, father, husband, and delegate officer in his local Democratic party. Dave is also the voice of the beloved character "Jimmy Barclay" in the well-known audio drama "Adventures in Odyssey". He started on the show in its first official season around the age of 10 and continued to voice the popular character for many years until ultimately the character was written off the show. Struggling with mental illness growing up, the show became an escape from the everyday lows of life. As that season came to a close Dave was confronted with many deep questions about faith, life, and politics. He'd been hesitant to come out and discuss much of this journey up until this point, but recently felt it was time to share some of this journey with those who are interested with the hope that honesty and vulnerability on the fronts of subjects like mental illness, dealing with the medical system, and experiencing religious and political ill-treatment might help advance our conversations on these fronts. It was great to talk to Dave. In the past we've had a few chances to chat a little bit and have worked together on a few projects, but up until now we haven't had a chance to go quite this deep. I'm thankful Dave took the time to chat. I think you guys will appreciate his story and our conversation. There are some heavy bits, some light fun bits, and some crazy stories. I found it challenging on multiple fronts, but ultimately it gave me a lot of important stuff to think about. Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF?si=u35WcMD-TVqDLQFT9N2ebA&dl_branch=1 iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ Dave Griffin https://www.facebook.com/jave1 http://breadfilm.com/film/ http://bunker21.com/ https://www.aiowiki.com/wiki/David_Griffin https://www.javegriffin.com/ Garrett Vandenberg Website https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ Twitter https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/ I also make music. You can check it out here: Instrumental/Meditational Project https://open.spotify.com/track/7E1CfMCcl8NNfpIXriFApt?si=942e22dc144942d0 Covers EP https://open.spotify.com/album/0DZaK7WYBzERovmrNK7lgw?si=91nky4TITiawgYtD2mf8Yw&dl_branch=1

Caleb Weidman is a Media wiz, and has been creating quality content for Spiritual communities for the past decade. He's the president of Blackbar Media, a youtube channel focused on exploring how Christianity can be complemented and augmented by technology and media, and how people working within positions related to media production can better engage with their faith. I've known Caleb for a very long time now, and we've worked together professionally on many different projects including short films and various musical productions. Caleb is also an incredibly talented graphic designer and has produced album covers and book covers for me and my peers on multiple occasions. I wanted to talk to Caleb about what his project is about, and dive deep into what it would mean for a spiritual community to be entirely online-based, and whether or not the online environment was capable of hosting the level of engagement necessary for meaningful spiritual engagement with a community. Caleb and I aren't on exactly the same page concerning this topic, but that's exactly why I thought it would be meaningful and beneficial to have a conversation. Whether you're part of a spiritual community or not, I think you'll find this discussion both interesting and relevant to your life and our greater cultural problem of processing what exactly the creation of the internet entails for us socially, spiritually, personally, and culturally. Also, if you enjoy this conversation and would like to hear more of Caleb, please be sure to check out his youtube channel and podcast (linked below). If you especially appreciated our dynamic, make sure you check out the new episode releasing very soon where Caleb invited me on to join in for a conversation about Christian Deconstruction and how to engage with it meaningfully. Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ Caleb Weidman / BlackBar Media Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTwQJMZl2HKGWntO-sDlKsg Discord - http://discord.blk.bar Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/blkbar Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/5nQZluqztP1FvBv19hhZ5F?si=5bluELXkRQmOO06Z3xx7Pg&nd=1 Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Blackbar-100159521451113/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/blk.bar/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/cjweidman?lang=en Garrett Vandenberg Website https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ Twitter https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Pre-order Nadje's new album: https://nadjenoordhuis.bandcamp.com/album/gullfoss Check out my favorite of Nadje's past work (Ten Sails): Bandcamp - https://music.lukehoward.com/album/ten-sails Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/album/7k6LMeVKzWrL9XHzNTPkXu Nadje Noordhuis is my favorite trumpet player, and is the primary reason I worked up enough determination to (try to) learn the trumpet. Yeah, that bit of trumpet in the intro is me, heh. She's from Brooklyn, though she grew up in and moved from Australia. She is a wonderful teacher and performer, and an wonderful person to chat with. I first met her at a very small and intimate studio performance she did with my favorite pianist (Luke Howard). To this day, that's one of my absolute favorite musical experiences ever. Nadje has a very interesting and inspiring story, as well. She had to struggle to make her way into a male-dominated scene where it was thought that "a woman couldn't handle the position of audio engineer" and being pigeonholed into "female only" jazz bands. She's since made some incredible contributions to music both through her composition/performing and her teaching. Check out "Ten Sails" by Nadje Noordhuis and Luke Howard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QzMcUb3bOM&list=PLHJ8mCjIjmVPfl8wz7RvtyMLW6Ieo0RGv Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ Who's in this episode? Nadje Noordhuis https://www.nadjenoordhuis.com/ https://www.instagram.com/nadjenoordhuis/?hl=en https://open.spotify.com/artist/2gMxxfDcVbNcJH5VG2FCmY?autoplay=true

Markus grew up in a fundamentalist Christian home but later upon examining his religion rejected it in general and began to think more deeply about his beliefs and his philosophy. In this conversation Markus shares a bit of his story and how he ultimately ended up practicing and teaching Yoga and meditation from a primarily secular framework. I challenge Markus on this perspective towards Yoga and we dig deep into what it means to "listen to your body" and have a relationship with the "unknown". Markus Schnieder runs the local hot yoga studio in my hometown and is one of the friendliest and most interesting people I know. The first time we chatted was at the studio after a session and I asked him about one of the poses I was struggling with. His response was extremely detailed about the various physiological and psychological effects of the pose and how it should be approached. I was immediately struck by his gentle demeanor and intelligence. The next time we saw Markus at the studio he remembered both mine and my wife's names. Markus is a great guy, and every time I chat with him I learn something. Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ Who's in this episode? Markus Schneider https://modoyoga.com/brantford/teacher/extra-test/ https://www.instagram.com/themarkuslife/?hl=en Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/ I also make music. You can check it out here: Instrumental/Meditational Project https://open.spotify.com/track/7E1CfMCcl8NNfpIXriFApt?si=942e22dc144942d0 Covers EP https://open.spotify.com/album/0DZaK7WYBzERovmrNK7lgw?si=91nky4TITiawgYtD2mf8Yw&dl_branch=1

Ian Juby is a prolific hobbyist whose interests range from driving trains to amateur archeology to UFO theorizing to creation science. Ian's name has come up frequently in my house over the past several years whenever the topic of "evolution" was brought up. Many/most evangelical Christians (especially those of the generation before mine) hold very tightly to a model of creation and existence that is consistent with a literal interpretation of Genesis--that is, 6 day creation. Other key Biblical stories are considered deeply historical as well, such as the idea of a universal flood (Noah's Ark) or the Israelite crossing of the Red Sea. While most Christian Evangelicals take the literal historicity of these stories at face value, Ian has spent the last 15 years of his life actively teaching and researching more technical arguments concerning the age of the earth, the fossil record, and other key components to unpacking this theory of origins scientifically. Growing up I noticed a common pattern of dismissal of this conversation from those on either side. Most practicing Christians I knew brushed off evolution and claims about an old earth as simple propaganda by those seeking to destroy the church, whereas those outside of the church that I talked to about these concepts brushed off those who believed them as simpletons who didn't know anything about science. When Ian agreed to chat with me for this project, I was excited. Ian is a pretty smart guy, and has bothered to spend a good chunk of his time trying to deeply get to know the science behind this conversation. I on the other hand find the evolutionary model compelling, yet still find the Christian faith meaningful and worth engaging with. I was hoping that between the two of us we might be able to manage having the conversation that I hadn't seen happen very well growing up and attempt to engage and discuss these two positions honestly and in good faith without premature dismissal. It was a difficult task, and I don't know if we managed it perfectly, but I'm excited about the forward motion of this conversation in my home community, and I'm hoping this conversation can be a small contribution to this greater conversation within Evangelical Christiandom.

"Both Christians and atheists incorrectly accept the narrative that believers must reject evolution. I want to change this paradigm. I want to help Christians question their assumptions about this topic and broaden their perspective." - April M. Cordero April Maskiewicz Cordero PhD is a professor of biology at Christian university (Point Loma Nazarene) in San Diego and has taken on the challenging task of teaching evolution and ecology to Christian college undergraduates. She's co-authored several books and delivered several notable lectures and talks at TED and Biologos. I was connected with April by a mutual friend and I was immediately struck by her energy and charisma. April is incredibly fun to listen to and talk to and is very compassionate. If anyone is up to the task of kindly and carefully unpacking the tension surrounding the Creation/Evolution debate in evangelical circles, it's her. I was so honoured to get to have the opportunity to chat with her for a bit about that tension specifically, as well as her story of leaving and coming back to faith in a time of heavy pressure to accept either atheistic evolution or Christian creationism. April was on the cutting edge of those unwilling to accept this dichotomy in the '90s and 2000s and has helped push the Evangelical movement forward on this issue in a valuable way. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

I've known Brayden since I was a kid. Like many old friendships, Facebook allowed us to reconnect in some interesting ways later in life when we otherwise might not have crossed paths. I noticed Brayden had been posting a lot about various conspiracy theories and generally pushing back against the standard narrative and thought it would be interesting to meet up and chat again about just what a conspiracy theory actually entails, and whether or not we can figure out a healthy way of engaging with that type of thinking without going overboard.

Conversation with John Vervaeke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3AxPCwoVxA Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ John Vervaeke https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke/featured http://johnvervaeke.com/ https://www.facebook.com/VervaekeJohn/ Garrett Vandenberg (host/me) https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

John Vervaeke PhD is a Cognitive Scientist and Cognitive Psychotherapist whose work focuses on meaning and the science of wisdom. He's an award-winning lecturer at the University of Toronto, with his classes ranging from psychology, cognitive science to Buddhist psychology. I discovered John and his work through my friend Connor during a time when we were both doing a lot of soul-searching and struggling with the ever-encroaching cloud of nihilism that is modern-day media. When we discovered John's work as well as the work of others in his "corner of the internet", our whole relationship to meaning, story, religion, and life changed. When John agreed to speak with me, I was ecstatic at the chance to finally throw some of the many ideas that had bubbled up inside me during his lectures at him. While there were many more topics I'd originally hoped to hit on, I decided it would be best for our first conversation to try to zero in on the thesis of this whole project and discuss the dynamic of connection with people, things, and life in the age of the internet. If you've been watching the channel for a bit you'll probably have picked up on my frustration with the atmosphere of modern media. I find social media and media in general acting as an attention-sucking soul-harvesting machine, but one that seems to be too integrated into our culture to simply unplug from and maintain the expected level of engagement with the world and culture around me. It feels like a sort of "damned if I do, damned if I don't" problem to me sometimes, and I often have trouble digging myself out of that thought cycle. John was extremely gracious in his listening to my complaining about existence, which I was deeply thankful for. While I appreciate that I can be a bit of a downer, I find that I am simply not satisfied with an answer to difficult questions unless the question has had an appropriate amount of time on the mic to make its case. I really appreciated John patience, and ultimately this ended up feeling more like a therapy session than a conversation at times (which is bound to happen sometimes when talking to a psychotherapist). I had really hoped to talk to John a bit more about Buddhism, Christianity, and Neo-platonism and the common threads between those traditions as well, but we ended up not having enough time to circle around to these topics. Fortunately, we've scheduled a follow up to this conversation, which will be out in several weeks, so be sure to subscribe and keep and eye out for that. Key Terms: Perennial -- Lasting or existing for a long or apparently infinite time; enduring or continually recurring Relevance Realization -- Becoming aware of the most meaningful way to participate or engage with one's environment Affording/Affordance -- the quality or property of an object that defines its possible uses or makes clear how it can or should be used Works Mentioned: The Science of Wisdom in a Polarized World: Knowns and Unknowns - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1047840X.2020.1750917?needAccess=true (Mentioned at 53:00) Arthur Aron: The Experimental Generation of Interpersonal Closeness: A Procedure and Some Preliminary Findings - https://psychodramaaustralia.edu.au/sites/default/files/falling_in_love-aron.pdf (Mentioned at 57:30) Paul Tyson - Returning to Reality: Christian Platonism for Our Times - https://www.amazon.ca/Returning-Reality-Christian-Platonism-Times/dp/1610979249 Videos: 1:00:50 My Conversation with J.P. video Concerning Catholicism and the Transcendent - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBvNK58WwQM&t=3615s 1:09:05 John Vervaeke's "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" Series - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY&list=PLND1JCRq8Vuh3f0P5qjrSdb5eC1ZfZwWJ Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts...

Michael Wiseman is the host of "The Bible Says What?"-- a podcast a youtube channel exploring the limits of evangelical theology and biblical theory from an atheist perspective. He's also the author of a book of the same name, which you can find online here - https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Says-What-Michael-Wiseman-ebook/dp/B08Y7BLM3H/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= I came into contact with Mike earlier this year when he reached out to me, and we've had several engaging conversations comparing notes on our journeys with evangelicalism since then. He and I have obviously landed on very different pages, but he's been a very fun person to talk to and get to know over the past few months. I hope you enjoy getting to know Mike a bit, and if you enjoy our interaction, be sure to check out the other conversations we've had on his channel: Episode 102: Fight or Flight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5dFsh6U_ic&t=2002s Episode 103: Looking for the Good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2IEs3a2MoY&t=1163s We recently had another conversation on his channel, which will be coming out soon, so keep an eye out. Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ Michael Wiseman https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7FrIcfAfHHRr9ZkKSR11BQ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-bible-says-what/id1383942979 https://www.instagram.com/bswthepodcast/?hl=en https://www.facebook.com/BSWthepodcast/ https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Says-What-Michael-Wiseman/dp/1839191066 Garrett Vandenberg (Me) https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/ My Music Instrumental/Meditational Project https://open.spotify.com/track/7E1CfMCcl8NNfpIXriFApt?si=942e22dc144942d0 Covers EP https://open.spotify.com/album/0DZaK7WYBzERovmrNK7lgw?si=91nky4TITiawgYtD2mf8Yw&dl_branch=1

Evan and I sit down to unpack some of the trickier parts of my most recent conversation with J.P. Marceau.

J.P. and I unpack his latest article concerning the overlap between Christianity, Buddhism, and various other religious traditions on their central "trinity" like concepts. While I recommend reading the article, it's not necessary to read first (in fact I'd recommend reading it after watching) as this conversation is intended primarily to help introduce the ideas he discusses in the article to general audiences. Unfortunately, some of the data for this conversation was corrupted and had to be repaired. As a result, a section in the middle has reduced audio quality. Sorry for that! J.P.'s article: https://thesymbolicworld.com/articles/evil-enlightenment-and-easter/ David Bentley Hart's book - https://www.audible.ca/pd/The-Doors-of-the-Sea-Where-Was-God-in-the-Tsunami-Audiobook/B07KBFBT5S?qid=1623361348&sr=1-1&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=b278ed0a-c3b2-4491-808c-7cb2190a487c&pf_rd_r=RZBK91XMA5RDGHC4TMP9 Subscribe to the podcast Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1ezktLCKtpdpPCvZHvFPvF iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/this-could-be-interesting/id1554166655 Google Podcasts https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL3RoaXNjb3VsZGJlaW50ZXJlc3Rpbmdwb2RjYXN0L2ZlZWQueG1s Podbean https://thiscouldbeinterestingpodcast.podbean.com/ JP Marceau https://twitter.com/jeanphi76459673?lang=en https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZzlvx0HHYiPOJTEOU399WA https://thesymbolicworld.com/author/jp_marceau16/ Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Jean-François Martel has been working with various Canadian producers as a screenwriter and director for the past ten years. He's worked on numerous documentaries that have aired on most of Canada's major broadcasters, as well as writing and directing a number of award winning dramatic short films including "Cicada,". He's also the author of the fantastic short book/manifesto/artistic call to action "RECLAIMING ART IN THE AGE OF ARTIFICE" which was published in 2015. J.F. co-hosts a weekly philosophy of art podcast called "Weird Studies". I discovered J.F. and his work earlier this year via another podcast and was immediately drawn in by his interesting and uncommonly well-thought-out positions on art and symbolism. After reading his book I was so enthralled I couldn't wait to get to chat with him about what I think is one of the most pressing issues we're facing today in the developed world: how we approach both the consumption and creation of art, stories, and media. Get J.F.'s book here https://www.amazon.ca/Reclaiming-Art-Age-Artifice-Treatise/dp/1583945784#:~:text=Reclaiming%20Art%20in%20the%20Age%20of%20Artifice%20places%20art%20alongside,dancers%2C%20filmmakers%2C%20and%20poets. JF Martel https://twitter.com/JF_Martel https://www.weirdstudies.com/ http://www.reclaimingart.com/ Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

"Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them." - Matthew 13:12 What a ruthless principle. Pareto Distribution (or "The Matthew Principle) can be found in almost any distributive dataset. 20% of people have 80% of the money in (almost all) economic systems. 20% of people have 80% of the power in (almost all) political systems. 20% of any language gets used 80% of the time in (all) languages. It's especially frustrating thinking about the Matthew Principle playing out beyond the 80/20 rule to the point where it seems like one person has all of the power and everyone else has none. It feels like this is what my relationship to politics looks like, and my relationship to the music industry, and to the world in general. I feel powerless. When I think about this stuff it makes me feel extremely frustrated, and when I think about things and they make me frustrated, I take that as a sign that it's time to have a conversation with a trusted friend, so sat down with two people I trust (Connor and Evan) to try to figure out if my frustration is justified and what a meaningful response might be to that frustration. Surprisingly, we actually made a lot more progress unpacking this topic than I was expecting to (at least, I personally felt like I'd made progress in my relationship to the problem), though there's a ton more to keep thinking about. Let me know what you think of where we landed. Connor Howard https://www.instagram.com/connorjhoward/​ Evan Vandenberg https://www.instagram.com/evanskates/ Garrett Vandenberg https://www.garrettvandenberg.com/​​ https://www.facebook.com/garrettvandenbergmusic/ https://www.instagram.com/garrettvandenberg/ https://twitter.com/GarrettJVMusic​​/

Sam Glenn https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv45xgouMHfxSFyi3zavCqA