What If Marvel was Real?

In this episode: Mike and Ed continue their discussions on what the original Avengers are doing in their post-Avengers lives. For instance, Thor now seems to be working for the American military in Vietnam. Was he drafted? Or did he consider deserting to move back to Asgard? Will super-powered individuals become the next weapon of war? Will heroes sell their services to the highest bidding country? Is there a way to stop the escalation, or is this just the new way of the world? Behind the issue: Stan had Thor appear in Vietnam, but never had him coordinating with the US military. Comic books in the 1940s were practically US-propaganda, and the heroes were expected to be fighting against Hitler. But in the 1960s, the writers mostly kept the heroes out of real-world conflicts. It wasn’t until the modern era that writers considered the possibility of heroes fighting in Vietnam. In this issue: Thor is spotted in Vietnam and shot by a hunter. The hunter then comes across an ancient temple and, through the machinations of Loki, the hunger takes over the Destroyer armour with his mind. The hunter pilots the Destroyer in a fight with Thor. Meanwhile on Asgard, Loki is imprisoned. This episode takes place: While people are still adjusting to “Cap’s Kooky Quartet” - and missing their “old” Avengers. Assumed before the next episode: People are wondering what Thor was doing in Southeast Asia. Full transcript: Edward: All right, Mike. Continuing our, where are they now? Series. We now know where Thor has been for the last couple of months. Michael: Yeah. He's decided to take his retirement to Vietnam. Edward: Vietnam, you'd think with his hair like that, he would've been a conscientious objector, but no Siri, don't stereotype Thor. He is right there with the military. Right in the thick of things. Michael: All kidding aside, it's pretty wild that this man, or this being Thor, who's associated with, the American military and the military industrial complex has gone to Vietnam, clearly on behalf of the Americans, and intervened in international affairs. Clearly as an agent of America, or at least on America's interest. Yeah, for sure. Doesn't that make it a little more complicated over there? Is that what we wanna, Edward: I think it makes it less complicated. ANCO was clear before that the Avengers were an American superhero organization that had American interest at heart. Their leader was Captain America. It's pretty clear that they were into America and hey, they were supported and run by, stark Corp, who are like basically a big American company. They're an American team now, Thor leaves the American team that he leaves the Avengers. What does he do next? He doesn't go back up to Asgard. He goes and works for American interests in a non Avengers way. Michael: It seems a little, isn't it? I don't know. I find it uncomfortable that we would entrust, international diplomacy to, well, it's costume adventures. Edward: Well, it's not diplomacy. He's not negotiating peace treaties. He's swinging his hammer and like on a hitting North Vietcong. Michael: But this. But there's consequences to that though. Like aren't you worried that that's gonna lead to say, other Superpowered beings that might be drafted in by the Vietcong to fight American soldiers overseas in, Edward: do the Viet Cong have a superhero? Michael: Not yet. Well, there you go. Not yet, but there you go. But you don't think the Chinese might have an interest in this. Have a say in it. Edward: That's, that, that is true. We know the Chinese do have their own superheroes. Radioactive man. Radioactive man. So, you're saying it's an escalation of the conflict. And maybe this means China sends in radioactive man, but China is not like US is directly involved in that war. China is only indirectly involved, right? They have plausible deniability. If they send in radioactive man, there goes their plausible deniability. Michael: Well first of all, there hasn't been...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss how the Goblin and the Crime Master may be the same person. Also, the Green Goblin is now clearly a villain. His early work attacking crime families seems to just have been so he can consolidate organized crime under his own leadership. Ed admits his earlier errors and Mike helps Ed understand that goblins are, historically, not known for their altruism. What does it say about Mr. Fantastic? Behind the issue: This is the first appearance of the Crime Master (he dies in the next issue, and unlike most dead villains is never resurrected - at least as of this writing in 2023). In the issue Stan leads the reader (and Spider-man) to believe that Fredrick Foswell (formerly the Big Man, now “reformed”) is secretly The Crime Master. When it turns out that Foswell was actually on the side of good and the Crime Master’s secret identity was someone who had never been mentioned before, Spider-man says something about how “sometimes it’s just a random guy”. In the future Stan will write another reverse and Foswell will go back to being a villain, but for now he is one of the heroes of the story. In this issue: The Green Goblin meets up with the Crime-Master to see if he will join forces with him to take over the criminal underworld of New York City. But the Crime-Master declines. A crime cold war begins anew. It turns out that the Crime-Master is actually Frederick Foswell, the allegedly reformed Big Man who has returned after his stint in prison to work as a newspaper reporter again for the Daily Bugle. Anyway, Spider-Man gets caught up in the middle of this crime cold war, and the Goblin captures him. The Goblin takes an unconscious Spider-Man to a crime meeting that the Crime-Master had set up to announce that he was the leader of NYC’s criminals - but the Goblin has other plans. This episode takes place: Around the time of a crime cold war in New York City. Assumed before the next episode: People are wondering what Thor was doing in Southeast Asia - and also why costumed criminals are making a splashy play for power in New York. Full transcript: Edward: Uh, Mike, the green goblin, I stand corrected. Green Goblin is not a hero. He is not a good guy. He, Michael: shocker Ed. Just a but the shocker, Edward: so Mike, I admit when I'm wrong. I admit that even though he was doing a heroic thing, trying to take down crime families, he was not doing it for a good reason. Michael: He wasn't altruistic. He wasn't just like, you know what? I wanna, you know what I do? My spare time is just take down, and weaken crime families and just let them just see what happens afterwards. It turns out he was trying to take them over. Edward: So, there's a difference whether it's the meaning behind the action that's important or the effect that's important. And if the effect was to eliminate crime, may, maybe he was, maybe he was a good guy even in spite of himself. Uh, okay. It's, it's a stretch. Michael: That's a bit of a stretch, Eddie. Like, I mean, look, what I think is that, the last time we spoke about this, you were saying, Hey, it looks like the green goblin is a hero. And you can't read too much into it, I guess. But if I was. Talking to you. I said, ed, going forward, I want you to refer to me as the ogre. You'd be like, you'd say Mike, like, what's going on with you? I'd say, I don't know. I just want you to, I want you to call me an ogre. You know, believe me then there might be a problem and I might view myself negatively. And so if someone says, I'm the green goblin, you're basically saying, I am scary. I am someone to fear I'm not a hero. Edward: En vain, probably vain or, no. Envious. Envious. Isn't it? Green with envy. Agree with envy, an envious, Michael: there's no goblin, there no goblin in history. You're like, you know, like, I like that guy. I think, you know, I'd like to maybe hire him as a babysitter. It's a goblin. They eat children. This is what goblins are like. They...

Thank you for staying with us as we missed another week last week. Edward is traveling with his family this summer, making recording difficult. We still have a half dozen episodes recorded and we will trickle them out over the summer months, but there may be a few weeks this summer without an episode. But we have some fun ones coming! This one made me laugh while I was editing it… Enjoy! In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss Daredevil’s recent loss to Stilt-Man. Does Daredevil even have any super powers? If not, is he just a crazy man who swings from building to building with a grapple hook? And what’s up with Stilt-Man? Did he choose his own name? Why doesn’t he have extendable arms as well? Is this all a joke? And if so, how did the “joke” defeat Daredevil? Behind the issue: This is the first appearance of Stilt-Man, who goes on to try out names like “Stilty” and “Daddy Long Legs”. By the end of the issue, Stilt-Man is defeated and shrunk into nothingness. That does not stop him, though, as he comes back to be active in the Marvel Universe through to the present day (he is killed by the Punisher at one point, but his clone continues to use his stilts for villainy). In this issue: A new villain appears on the scene - Stilt-Man - and he starts his career of villainy by robbing a helicopter mid-flight. Seems complicated for a heist, but there you have it. In any event, Daredevil tries to take Stilt-Man down after the heist, but does not succeed. Back in his civilian guise as Matt Murdock, Daredevil takes on a new client, Wilbur Day, who hires Matt to sue his boss Mr. Kaxton, who has stolen his patent. As the case goes on, Stilt Man continues his crime spree. It is eventually revealed that Wilbur is Stilt-Man. He goes on the run from Daredevil, and eventually, he is hoisted on his own petard when he accidentally turns his shrinking ray on himself, shrinking him to apparent nothingness. This episode takes place: After the short reign of Stilt-Man comes to an end. Assumed before the next episode: People did not really think much about Stilt-Man. Full transcript: Edward: Mike Daredevil is not dead, but he has been pretty badly injured, and I think this is what you get when you have someone who's just a vigilante with no real powers trying to take on super villains. Michael: Well, wait a minute. I don't know if he's spoken about this before, but is he a normal guy? Just in a funny costume, like he seems fine. He define seems similar. Edward: Well, define normal. You say normal to what does normal mean? Michael: Okay, so Spider-Man isn't normal, right? We know Spider-Man. Spiderman isn't normal. Climb balls and he's swinging from building to building. But what do we know about Daredevil? He fights on rooftops and kind of swings down from rooftops. Like, I could not, Edward: but he swings on a grappling hook. You could swing at a grappling hook. Michael: No, there's, there's a, there's a zero chance, even in the best shape of my life, would I use a grappling hook to swing from one building to another without a net? Edward: I'm not saying is something, I'm not saying it's a smart thing to do, but I'm saying you could do it. I think if push came to shove, I have faith in you, Mike. I think you could swing from a building to building. It's in a rope. You could, all you have to is hold onto the rope. Just hold onto the rope. Michael: Ed, have you ever gone to a cottage on a lake in the summer we're gonna a swimming hole and there's a rope? Yeah. And the rope it's tied to a branch overhanging in the water Sure. And the rope. And you grab the rope and you swing out. Yeah. That is still scary. Cause if you don't let go in time and you go back to shore and you let go, then you land on the rocks. Yeah. That's bad. As opposed to the water. So would I swing like that without the water? No, Edward: well, I'm not saying you would do it because you, cuz you have more sense than Daredevil does. Are you saying Daredevil's...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the Avengers’ public search for a fifth member: the Hulk. What are they thinking? Is strength the only requirement for membership? How bad is “rampaging” before you decide not to let someone on the team? Should someone take Captain America’s license away? Behind the issue: Stan Lee is leaning into the idea that the team is under-powered after losing the original Avengers. The team feels the same way until they discover that when they work together as a team they can defeat powerful villains — maybe they don’t need the Hulk after all? In this issue: The new Avengers meet for the first time. Rick Jones - teenage sidekick with no discernible powers or abilities - is jealous that the three new members - Scarlet Witch, who can warp reality; Quicksilver, who can run at the speed of thought; and Hawkeye, who has an uncanny martial abilities - are members and he is not. Anyways, Captain AAmerica announces to the fledgling team that their first mission is to find the Hulk to see if he will join their team. They then go to train, and a giant robot sent by the Mole Man breaks in and attacks them while informing them that they can find the Hulk in the desert. It’s a trap, obviously, but the Avengers still set out for the desert and battle the Mole Man’s Minotaur underground. Meanwhile, the Hulk chases down his foe, the Leader. The issue ends with the Avengers realizing that they are quite formidable on their own and do not really need the Hulk. Assumed before the next episode: People are still wondering what the deal is with this odd team of Avengers. This episode takes place: While the public considers whether the Hulk would be a good addition to the Avengers or not. Full transcript: Edward: All right, Mike, we know who the fifth member of the Avengers is or not. Is, is going to be, is going to be Michael: wild man. It's actually crazy. It's actually crazy. How do we get here? Edward: You thought given the fact that The Thing is leaving the fantastic f. For, they'd bring him in. Mm-hmm. As the big strong man. And they said, no, no, no. That's not crazy enough, Mike. That's not crazy enough. We're no, we're gonna go back to our roots and find the most powerful man in the world and bring him onto the Avengers cuz the Avengers are not the second best mark. They're not the second strongest person in the world. They're going for the strongest. Michael: Yeah so they're out there trying to find the Hulk because the Hulk is the strongest one there is. And it's like, hold on a second. He's caused a lot of damage. He's fought you guys. Edward: Of course, of course. He's caused damage. He's the strongest man in the world. How can the strongest person in the world not cause damage? Michael: He, he, He's a, well, I dunno if he's a man, he's a monster. Edward: They're, they're calling, they're, they're calling him a man. They're calling him, man. Michael: Okay. And I shouldn't be, so I don't want to be negative towards him. I don't wanna use pejorative terms. Edward: You're like monstrous. Is that a word? Michael: But he has acted monstrously, you know what I mean? Like, so he, he has, Edward: he's a person who acts like a monster. He's not a monster himself. Michael: Well, yeah, sure. That's right. And he's out there causing terror and mayhem and. Battling the Avengers. Edward: Fair enough. And so then, not just Avengers, he's fought the Avengers, he's fought the fantastic F, he's f the Avengers more. I think he's fought the Avengers more than he's been on the Avengers in terms of like Right. Which side he's been on. He's been anti Avenger more times than he's been Avenger. Michael: So, I should say, gee whiz, you know, I'd like to get married. I'm gonna marry my, the worst girlfriend I've ever had because, you know, Because she's been my girlfriend in the past and she was a great girlfriend for like a week and then a terrible girlfriend for like a month. And so, Edward: yeah. But Mike is...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss life after being an Avenger. What are the responsibilities? What are the privileges? Do they get top secret briefings? Are they like ex-Presidents? Or like ex-FBI? Who pays for the damage they cause when Giant-Man decides to grow to 35-feet in the middle of the city and starts knocking down buildings? These are unprecedented times, but someone has to figure this out quickly! Behind the comic: This is the first adventure of Giant-Man and the Wasp post-Avengers. The story continues into the next issue, but at that point they “retire” and the title converts to dual stories of Namor and the Hulk. It turns out Giant-Man just wasn’t that popular. It didn’t help that Tales to Astonish had consistently been one of the weaker titles for the previous few years. Something needed to change. Also in this issue, the Human Top, who was originally introduced as a “normal human” who just happened to be able to spin quickly, has now developed the ability to fly… In this issue: Giant-Man and the Wasp are practicing just outside the city. A plane intentionally flies into Giant-Man, and the pilot, the Human Top, considers killing him but does not have time before Giant-Man wakes up. The Top splits, and Giant-Man returns home. Giant-Man practices his growing ability in downtown Manhattan. The Human Top then returns and battles Giant-Man and the Wasp, and Giant-Man is enraged when the Top leaves with a captured Wasp. In the Hulk story, the Hulk saves Major Talbot from dying during the Leader’s attack. Then, when the Hulk has turned back into Bruce Banner, General Ross places him under arrest for treason. The leader sends his humanoid minions to the base where Banner is being held, and while they attack Banner, he turns back into the Hulk and battles them but is knocked out as they steal an invention of Banner’s for the Leader’s use. Assumed before the next episode: People are fed up with Giant-Man leaning on their buildings, carelessly causing damage. This episode takes place: After Giant-Man has leaned on one too many buildings. Full transcript: Edward: Mike, what do you do when you retire from the Avengers? What's next? What's next on your plate? Michael: I don't know. It's hard to go higher in the superhero community, but it's also harder to get a better job in even the military or that kind of like super diplomacy community Edward: and super diplomats. Michael: Well, that's what they are, right? Like they're like, I don't know, like Warrior Kings in a way. Right? Edward: Thank you for your service, giant man. I'd not like you to be the diplomat in charge of Poland. Over there with the wasp. You can help us deal with geopolitical situations in the Eastern Republics. Michael: But that's what they've been doing though. They've been acting as Edward: the last time giant man went into the Eastern Europe, he was crashing through the Berlin wall. It's not diplomatic, it's not known for diplomacy. Michael: No, but his actions, whether they're clumsy or not, were actually affecting international relations. So that's what I mean, like the general sense of whatever they are. Edward: Yeah. So causing diplomatic relations is not the same as being a diplomat, just cuz they both have the word diplo in them. Michael: No, no, no. I'm not saying that they're, I'm not saying that that's the job. It's just that what have the Avengers been? They've saved the world. They've battled villains. They have taken upon their self to go to other countries, to act in America's interests. And then at times we've found that they've acted secretively to the same extent, further in the interest and theory of America. So I don't know what you want to call them, but they're not regular. And so you're, they're not regular. And, and your question at the start was like, well, what do you like, what do you do when you retire? Well, it's not unprecedented, but it's unusual. And so it's a good question. Edward: And so what's...

Apologizes for the delay on this episode. Edward has been traveling more than usual for business making it difficult to record. But we are back, and we should have a few more episodes recorded in time to be back on schedule next week. Stay tuned true believers! In this episode: Mike and Ed skip over the tornado that Dr. Doom used to terrorize the city, the capture of the Baxter Building, and the use of Reed Richards’ technology against himself, and jump right to the shocking news that the Thing, Ben Grimm, is leaving the Fantastic Four! Why is he leaving? Is it too hard to keep egos like this together for more than a few years? What is he going to do next? Is it a coincidence that the Avengers recently lost their four strongest members? And does this mean the Fantastic Four need to go into recruiting mode now too? The “Fantastic Three” does not have the same ring to it! Behind the Issues A lot happens in these issues: The after effects of the nuclear bomb in issue #38 cause the FF to lose their powers. Then Dr Doom attacks the team while they are helpless and they need to defeat their arch-nemesis without the benefit of powers. But all of that is secret. The FF manage to hide the fact their powers are missing while they get help from Daredevil. By the end of issue #40 they have their powers back, and Ben Grim is back to being the Thing. But in the course of the battle Ben felt un-appreciated and uses it as an excuse to leave the organization. This continuing storyline with every issue ending on a cliffhanger is Stan’s new style and we are seeing it in almost every title now, but none as connected as the Fantastic Four. In these issues: Fantastic Four #39: The Fantastic Four are rescued at sea, and they have lost their powers. Reed uses his technology to replace their powers, and they keep this information from the world. Meanwhile, Dr. Doom, who had been hypnotized by Reed previously, has this spell lifted by a local hypnotist. Doom, now in a rage at being tricked, heads back to New York City and battles the Fantastic Four, who have Daredevil on their side. They have a wild battle, with Daredevil doing a lot of the heavy lifting, leading into the next issue. Fantastic Four #40: Daredevil continues to pull the Fantastic Four’s bacon out of the fire. Meanwhile, the Four head to their headquarters, where Doom is holed up, with the local police sectioning off the city around the Four’s headquarters to allow these superpowered enemies do battle. At just the right time, the Four’s powers return, due to the ingenuity of Reed Richards, and they are able to best Dr. Doom and reclaim their headquarters. The Thing pushes them over the finish line, and they let Doom escape. And at the very end of the issue, the Thing decides that he has had it, and quits the team. Assumed before the next episode: People are wondering if the team should be called the Fantastic Five. This episode takes place: After the Fantastic Four/Five have defeated Dr. Doom and reclaimed the Baxter Building. Full Transcript Edward: Mike, there is a lot to talk about. Michael: No kidding. Edward: We could talk about the fact there's a tornado rampaging through the city destroying buildings. We can talk about Dr. Doom using Reed Richards technology against him and against all of us. We could talk about Doom. Taking over the Baxter, Building again, and threatening the Fantastic Four. These are all things we can talk about, but we're not gonna talk about any of those things. Michael: No man. We're talking about teams. We're talking about teams. Eddie, this is exciting news. Edward: Yeah. Not just teams. We're talking about The Thing. After all this stuff happening. The Thing announcement that he is leaving the Fantastic four. The Fantastic four have always had a challenge with their brand name in that they needed four people. Now they have to deal with that problem in a real way because the Fantastic Three doesn't have the same ring to it. Michael:...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the shocking loss of scientific skill among the country’s top scientists. It clearly seems purposeful, but what is the purpose? Aliens trying to keep humanity from developing new technologies? A domestic test to take away targeted abilities from exceptional people? Will they be able to take away superpowers next? And if so, is it ethical? If we can’t keep someone in prison, is the choice really between lobotomizing their abilities or capital punishment? What is the ethical choice? Ed and Mike disagree! Behind the issue: The after-effects of this issue result in Giant-Man unable to shrink smaller than a normal human for the remainder of his time in this title (which is ending soon and will be replaced with Namor. More on that when it happens!). Otherwise, nothing special here. In this issue: A guy is driving around town while being directed by a man in a hidden laboratory in a funny costume named the Supreme One. When the driver sees Giant-Man, he decides to zap him in a green ray, which causes Giant-Man to grow weak. This is because the ray is designed to steal power. The Supreme One becomes obsessed with stealing Giant-Man’s power, as he was unable to do that the first time he had someone try. To that end, he has his minion drive around town bathing scientific geniuses in the green ray, stealing their next-level scientific abilities, i.e. a top physicists forgets everything he knows about physics, etc. Giant-Man and the Wasp investigate, eventually tracking down the Supreme One, who escapes in a spaceship (turns out he is an alien). In the second story in this issue, the Hulk fights the army in a foreign nation, and when he turns to Bruce Banner, he is captured by some locals. Major Talbot is sent in to rescue Bruce Banner, and the episode ends on a cliffhanger - will Talbot and Banner fall to their deaths as they escape? Tune in next week! Assumed before the next episode: People are wondering what is happening to all the smart people. They are getting … less smart? How does that make any sense? This episode takes place: After people learn of the de-smartening that is happening. Complete transcript: Edward: All right, Mike, we're gonna change it up this week. We're gonna change it up a little bit because I have a story I think we should be talking about that's not, well, maybe it is superhuman. The scientists around the world are losing their scientific abilities Michael: right? Edward: So these are top physicists who are losing the ability to do physics or top geneticists who can't do genetics anymore. Top chemists who can't do chemistry anymore. And their brains can still do everything else. They can still have conversations, they can still love their families, but they're losing their scientific abilities. And so I think this is a super thing. We don't know who's doing it or why, but it sounds superhuman. Michael: Okay, before we get to this superhuman, if they're superhuman. Not saying that what you're saying is that Edward: No, I'm not saying human. It's a superhuman, some sort of superhuman thing. I don't think we know any scientific way to remove parts of knowledge from someone's brain like that feels like a superhuman thing. Michael: Right. So you're saying that there must be a purpose to it. This phenomena that's only targeting extremely intelligent and highly accomplished and specialized people like physicists. They're being targeted and their abilities are removed, which. Yeah, it doesn't sound normal. Edward: Um, well, it's never happened before, so therefore it is by definition, abnormal. Although it's abnormal, it's happening more and more now. So is it becoming normal? It's becoming normal. It was not normal, but now it is. Michael: It's normalized almost, and so normalized. So I guess the first question is, what's the purpose of it? So your first thing is that you're thinking that there's a super villain possibly, or an alien or something that is doing...

When episode 200 was first published we push the wrong audio (audio for episode 199). It has now been fixed. Apologies for the error (Thursday, April 27, 2023) In this episode: Mike and Ed continue to dive into the shocking changes to the Avengers line-up. It has now been announced that in addition to Hawkeye, Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch will be joining the team, and all of the founding members will be leaving. Is it still the Avengers is none of the founding members are on the team? Are we concerned that 75% of the team is made up of former villains. Are they really FORMER? And even if morality was not an issue, can we expect these new members to replace the missing firepower of Iron Man, Thor, Giant Man and the Wasp? Behind the issue: There was so much to discuss in this issue we broke it into two. And we still never covered the death of Baron Zemo given it was unclear if it was ever made public. Surprisingly for the comics Baron Zemo, the archenemy of Captain America at this point in the continuity, remains dead until the present day. However his son takes on the title and continues to battle Captain America and the Avengers on an ongoing basis. In this issue: (This is a repeat of the last episode) The issue opens with the Avengers once again emerging victorious over the Masters of Evil in New York, with Captain America defeating Baron Zemo in South America. It continues with Iron Man, Giant-Man, and the Wasp in New York having a team meeting and deciding to take a break from being on the team. At the same time they are having the meeting, Hawkeye breaks into their headquarters and asks to join the Avengers. His beloved Black Widow has been murdered by her employers behind the iron curtain, and he has had a change of heart on his line of work. The team decide to take him up on the offer, and on top of that, seek out new potential teammates, with the papers reporting this initiative. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver decide to apply to join the team, and they are admitted to the ranks as well. By the time Captain America returns, the team has been completed reconstituted, with Iron Man, Giant-Man, and the Wasp out, and Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch in as their replacements. This episode takes place: After Cap’s kooky quartet has been announced. Full transcript: Edward: Mike, never believe the rumors. Never believe the rumors. The rumors are total bs. Can't trust those people, Micheal: even if we're the ones that are spreading the rumors in. Edward: Even that we need to stop, stop with the speculation, I think last we heard captain America and Thor were off the team. Hawkeye and someone else were on the team and now that's all been thrown for Loop. Thor is off the team, but now Iron Man and Wasp and Giant man are off the team as well. Captain America is back. It's just nothing makes sense anymore. Micheal: Well, not really, no. So our speculation before was that we found it suspicious that Hawkeye, a former villain, was on the team when the remaining three Avengers were people with power suits, basically, who could be swapped in and out, but now it's Hawkeye's off. Two more villains. Rick Silver and the Scarlet Witch are on the team. And Captain America's in charge. I mean is it really the Avengers? You know what I mean? They said isn't. Edward: There's no original ventures left. What's that? That's it. Thesis' ship You're talking about Thesis' ship. That's what I was gonna say. Yeah. Yeah. They've replaced every board and brought on new boards. Is it still the same ship when none of the boards are left. Micheal: Well, what's funny is like, I think about law firms where law firms start out with a name of like, Smith and Jones, and then, eventually there's no Smith and there's no Jones. It's just a name and Edward: It's an overhand, Micheal: people treated as I think that it has the risk of being Smith and Jones in name only. And being not the same as it used to be. And maybe that's what the...

Next week is our 200th episode! It was fortunate timing that it ended up landing right on our episodes about Avengers #16, which was one of the most important issues of the era. If you are enjoying What If Marvel was Real?, now would be a great time to spread the word! Thanks for your help in getting our little show out there, and for all the listeners who have been here from the beginning. In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the surprise announcement that Hawkeye, the supervillain, will be joining the Avengers as a new member. The Federal Security Agency has given Hawkeye a thumbs up, but how is that possible? What do they know that we do not? Do we need to talk conspiracies again? The rumors are that Captain America and Thor are out of the organization. If true, we will only be left with heroes with technological powers - have the people behind the technology (and masks) been replaced? Is this the end of an era? Behind the issue: This is one of the key issues of the mid-60s. The Avengers were originally Marvel’s answer to the Justice League, whereby the publisher put all the heroes from different titles into one book to get the readers excited and turning over their hard-earned cash for tales of camaraderie and adventure. But the individual hero titles continued, and Stan had to keep his developing Marvel universe consistent. He had to juggle the storylines in, say, the individual title Tales of Suspense with what was happening in the team title Avengers. If Thor had been called away to Asgard, then how would be be around for an Avengers adventure that same month? Making it all make sense every month was challenging for Stan, and he wanted a solution. The answer was to take most of the heroes with their own titles off the team. He kept Captain America, and maybe rationalized it by knowing that the Captain America stand-alone stories could be set back in World War II whenever he wanted them to be. Then he filled in the rest of the team with supporting characters from other titles - characters who did not have their own books (and would not get their own books for many years, i.e. Hawkeye did not get his first solo title until 1983; Scarlet Witch, with Vision, until 1982; and Quicksilver until 1997). In this issue: The issue opens with the Avengers once again emerging victorious over the Masters of Evil in New York, with Captain America defeating Baron Zemo in South America. It continues with Iron Man, Giant-Man, and the Wasp in New York having a team meeting and deciding to take a break from being on the team. At the same time they are having the meeting, Hawkeye breaks into their headquarters and asks to join the Avengers. His beloved Black Widow has been murdered by her employers behind the iron curtain, and he has had a change of heart on his line of work. The team decide to take him up on the offer, and on top of that, seek out new potential teammates, with the papers reporting this initiative. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver decide to apply to join the team, and they are admitted to the ranks as well. By the time Captain America returns, the team has been completed reconstituted, with Iron Man, Giant-Man, and the Wasp out, and Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch in as their replacements. Assumed before the next episode: People are excited, and a little nervous, that the Avengers roster has been changed so completely. This episode takes place: After the announcement that Hawkeye will be on the team, but before Captain America returns from South America. Full transcript: Edward: Mike, I told you that Hawkeye was a superhero. I told you. I told you. You were like, oh no, he's not that good. He can't even fight anybody just as Arrows. Oh, go back to the 14th century. But no. Now Hawkeye is an Avenger. Mike. He's an avenger. Michael: Yeah. I guess the Avengers, they already had a man who's basically a one man rocket and can shoot energy from his fists as an Iron man. They needed to get somebody who could....

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the latest Daily Bugle claims against Spider-Man. Does he really want to be a spider? Is he going crazy? Why do we think we can trust this psychiatrist - just because he is European? As the Daily Bugle makes more and more mistakes, at what point do we start to ignore all of its claims? Its disinformation week on Super Serious! Behind the issue: This is the second appearance of Mysterio. Stan uses him to good effect, creating a very different type of story. The reader is meant to believe that perhaps Spider-Man really is going crazy. You only discover at the end of the issue that Mysterio has been manipulating things with his illusions. In this issue: Reformed criminal Frederick Foswell (aka the Big Man) is back to reporting for the Daily Bugle. Meanwhile, renowned European psychiatrist Dr. Ludwig Rinehart visits the Bugle’s publisher J. Jonah Jameson and explains that Spider-Man has mental health issues. The Bugle then runs an article in which he explains Spider-Man’s alleged mental health issues. Spider-Man then fights what appear to be hallucinations of his past enemies, causing him to question his sanity, leading him to seeking out Dr. Rinhart for help. He experiences more hallucinations at Rinehart’s place, but ultimately Rinehart is exposed as a fraud, and more importantly, as the supervillain Mysterio! Assumed before the next episode: People yet again question their subscription to the Daily Bugle, which is more of a tabloid than a serious newspaper. This episode takes place: After Spider-Man has defeated Mysterio and reaffirmed his grasp on reality. Full transcript: Edward: So Mike, did the daily bugle know that the psychologist was an imposter and printed anyway, or were they hoodwinked? Micheal: So I'm gonna say some pretty aggressive things about the daily bugle, but Edward: do it, I think we come here for the strong opinions. Micheal: That's right. I don't think that they purposely printed an op-ed from a fake psychiatrist with a fake opinion. I think that they were definitely hoodwinked, which I wouldn't say it's worse, but it's pretty bad. It's bad for a national newspaper such as a daily bugle to be fooled like that. And there's consequences for that type of, Edward: Well, that's The thing is like, do you think they actually were fooled? To me the Daily Bugle has a definite bias against Spider-Man and they've been publishing all this stuff recently. They're these impartial surveys of New Yorkers and talking about how much they dislike Spider-Man and how angry they are at him for a variety of reasons they've been publish negatives about Spider-Man for a long time. And then they published a psychiatrist saying a bunch of these negative things about Spider-Man. I guess the question is did they commission it? Micheal: So my read on it is that the bias of that newspaper and the publisher, Jay Jonah Jameson, is so strong that they were blinded by it so that they didn't follow their own journalistic principles and not vetting the fake psychiatrist and not. Fact checking things that he said in his article, at least following the process that is supposed to keep disinformation from being printed. Edward: That makes sense. You're basically saying that they heard what they wanted to hear, and once they heard what they wanted, they didn't go and commission it, but once they were told something, it was what they wanted to hear. And so they didn't question it. They didn't go and, and Right. Looked three layers, Steve, they didn't do the investigative reporting necessary to make sure it was. Micheal: And what's the point of the newspaper if they don't do any of that? Cause they couldn't have, from what I read from the reporting on this reporting is that this psychiatrist, wasn't he? His made up identity. And I don't know, maybe they're fooled by the fact that, Ooh, he's European. He's a European psychiatrist, if that makes any difference. It doesn't like, like did they...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the end of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. The X-Xen claim that Magneto and Toad have been kidnapped by an inter-dimensional being, Mastermind is dead, and Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch have retired to Eastern Europe. Are any of those things okay? Should there be an investigation into Mastermind’s death? Should there be a rescue mission to recover Magneto (and Toad)? Are super-terrorists just allowed to retire? Is that a thing? Mike and Ed have some divergent opinions. Where do you stand? Behind the issue: Clearly this is not the true end of Magneto. He returns in X-Men #17 (February 1966) and it is eventually revealed that he escaped from the Stranger by stealing a spaceship and returning to Earth, whereupon he immediately tried to kill all of the X-Men. In this issue: The X-Men detect a super-powered being of unknown origin, and seem a little nervous about it. Meanwhile, a tall man with a shock of white hair moseys through the city, walking on air and through walls - he is clearly the super-powered being and is ultimately referred to as the Stranger - until he finds Magneto and his Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. The Stranger battles Magneto and his team, overpowering him. He turns Mastermind into a solid block of matter, and then the X-Men burst in and start battling the Brotherhood too. Ultimately, the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver confess to the X-Men that they are quitting the Brotherhood, having repaid their debt to Magneto. The Stranger then kidnaps Magneto and Toad, flying off into space with them, with the X-Men powerless to assist. Assumed before the next episode: People are wondering whether they are more safe, knowing that a super-powered alien can overpower Magneto and take him into space. This episode takes place: After the Brotherhood has been disbanded in a very unorthodox manner. Full transcript: Edward: Michael, it's the end of an era. It's the end of the brotherhood of evil mutants. They are no longer a brotherhood. They're done. Micheal: problem solved. Edward: I'm sure there'll be other problems out there, but it is nice that one of the big super terrorists hanging over the head of our country is no longer an issue anymore. The X-Men have reported that Magni and the towed, the leader and one of the members of the brotherhood have been kidnapped, detained by some sort of alien being. And, the three remaining members, two have retired and one is apparently dead. Micheal: So there's a bunch of stuff that comes out of it let's. The X-men at their word and say that, what'd they say? An alien took Magni and towed away Edward: some sort of alien or interdimensional being someone who's not from here, it was you who said that. How do you define an alien? An alien is someone not from Earth? And it sounds like this guy's not from Earth. Micheal: So let's just call him just for sake of convenience. See, this alien is taking magni and towed away, so that's okay. Fine, but. Do we just leave it at that? If say a kindly grandmother and her, Edward: wanna hear where you're going with this, Micheal: kidnapped by an alien, would we just be like, oh, well, aliens, you know, aliens, they just, they just kidnap people Edward: I think. I think, well, I think, well, hey, I think there's a difference between a grandmother and a. Micheal: But why is there, I mean, the point is like there isn't actually like Edward: no, there's no if, if, wait a minute, you're arguing. There's no difference between a terrorist and a grand. Micheal: But not certainly. Edward: Who is your grandmother? What is your grandmother like? Michael? Micheal: I loved my grandmother's. I did, but what I'm trying to say, I'm not comparing, I'm not saying that you've gotta treat your grandmother like a terrorist, but you probably need to treat terrorists as human beings. I mean, or criminals or accused. Criminals still have the same rights as the, as the rest of us, and so, Edward: Do they, do they...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the Iron Man vs Iron Man battle. The man in the newest suit was unmasked and revealed to be Weasel Wills, a lifetime criminal with an unfortunate name. But was Weasel the one committing the crimes? Or was he a scape goat? How did Weasel steal the suit to begin with? How did he maintain the suit? How was he defeated with an old, obsolete suit? Is there a deeper conspiracy we are not aware of? It was terribly convenient (inconvenient?) that all of the Avengers were missing during the crime spree. Mike and Ed get to the bottom of these important questions! Behind the issue: Many of the Captain America stories at this point are “historical stories” from back when the Captain was fighting during World War II. Perhaps that is why Stan decides to keep Captain America on the Avengers when he writes all the others off the team. It was too hard keeping track of where the heroes were in their own titles AND the Avengers title. But it was less of an issue for Captain America, whose own title was not taking place in the same time period In this issue: Career criminal Weasel Wills steals Iron Man’s suit, masters it easily, and starts robbing banks. Tony Stark digs out an earlier model and battles Weasel. He defeats Weasel by applying the rope a dope strategy, and unmasks him. Weasel swears he is truly Iron Man, but no one believes him. Assumed before the next episode: Conspiracy theories abound about the identity of Iron Man. This episode takes place: After Iron Man has taken down the imposter. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.superserious616.com

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss when it is appropriate for a regular human to get involved in super-conflict. If you can’t help, you don’t need to show off - just run away and call 911! Also: Are all Asgardians super? If they are, why wouldn’t all of them come to Earth where they could be super powerful? Or is that just beneath their dignity? Behind the issue: This is the point where Stan has decided to take Thor “off the table”. He is going to leave the Avengers, and more of his stories will involve stuff happening in Asgard and the politics of the gods, rather than fighting villains of the week on Earth. In this issue: Thor and Loki are engaged in battle in a faraway land, at the behest of Odin to sort out who lied to him. This all came about because of a trick that Loki played on Thor and Odin. Ultimately, Odin realizes that Loki lied to him, and that Loki had put Jane Foster in harms way as part of his scheme. Meanwhile on Earth, the Enchantress and the Executioner kidnap Jane in broad daylight, and a bunch of pedestrians intervene in an ill-fated attempt to rescue her. Back to the faraway land - Loki escapes, leaving Thor stranded. Assumed before the next episode: People watch footage of the pedestrians being unable to take down super-powered Asgardians and realize they probably shouldn’t try that. This episode takes place: After Thor is stranded in another dimension. Full transcript: Edward: Mike, it is kidnapping week here on the show, , Michael: and I didn't even mark it in my calendar, but you're right. Every year it creeps up on me every year. Kidnapping week, you know, I just think really it's kidnapping week. It's been that long. Oh gee. Edward: Yeah. Yeah. It's time for the friends and family of our heroes to be put at risk where the villains come in and, use them as leverage to. I dunno, I guess to get the heroes to fight. Why, they couldn't have just got them to fight before, it feels like most of these heroes won't turn down a chance to fight with these villains. Like I think the kidnapping part is a little unnecessary. Michael: It does seem unnecessary and maybe that's why we're taking a little jaunty view of it, where yes, they're being kidnapped, but it usually works out , no one's really injured. It makes it seem almost like a juvenile game between the super villains and the superheroes. Edward: And in this particular case, two of the top people at, Stark Corp, pepper Pots and Happy, I'm sorry, I don't know Happy's last name. Happy Hogan. Happy Hogan. Yeah. Happy Hogan. We're kidnapped. Everyone can, Breathe easy. They have all been rescued. Iron, Man has rescued them from the kidnapping. So they're back at home. Happy is now happy. And meanwhile, Sue Storm from the Fantastic Four, the actual superhero Sue Storm, has also been kidnapped by the Frightful four. And she's not yet been returned. So that the case is still out. Although with her powers, she's gonna be much easier to protect herself than Pepper and happier. Michael: I guess, we'll see how it all shakes out, but on a more serious note there is a concern about these connections with these superheroes that leave them exposed to risk. You gotta wonder about what they're doing to protect themselves in the case of Iron Man, no one knows who he or she is. It's just that there's a person in a suit of armor and they just associate, but Edward: he's associate, yeah. He's associated with Stark Corp. And so That's right. People know that Iron Man is Tony's Stark's bodyguard more than that. He's like the bodyguard for the company, the face of the company. And so, clearly if one of the top people at the company is kidnapped, Iron Man is gonna come to the rescue. And that's exactly what happened. Michael: But I think sometimes about say a royal of family or a distant relative of say the president,, if your cousins with the president, are you worried about getting kidnapped? And do you get a security detail? And the answer is no. And if...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss two recent kidnappings: Pepper Potts and Happy Hogan by the Black Widow and Hawkeye, and Sue Storm by the Frightful Four. How senior do you need to be at StarkCorp before you are at risk of being kidnapped? Is a bow and arrow an effective weapon in the modern age? Should a wizard be defined by a lack of wings? Isn’t lack of wings a common trait we all hold? All this and more - just don’t call us silly! Behind the issues: As we get further into 1965, more and more issues are multi-part stories. Tales of Suspense #64 re-introduces Hawkeye as a villain, only to have him switch to being an Avenger next month in Avengers #16. Fantastic Four #38 ends with the heroes being at the epicenter of a nuclear bomb, and the after effects of that conflict continue for the next two issues. This pattern of moving beyond “supervillain of the month” becomes more regular with all of the titles over the next few months. In this issue: Tales of Suspense #64 In the first story, Black Widow meets up with Hawkeye again. She explains how she has been pressed into service for the USSR, and that they have designed her fancy new costume replete with weapons and gadgets. She enlists Hawkeye with her task, to destroy Iron Man. To that end, they kidnap Happy and Pepper in an effort to attract Iron Man to their trap. Iron Man shows up, and Hawkeye and Black Widow nearly take him down. Fortunately, Iron Man rescues his friends, as the supervillains (soon to be superheroes) flee. The second story is a Captain America tale from WWII, when he had a secret identify as a first class screwup in the US Army. In this tale, Cap and Bucky battle a team of Nazis who have set up an innocent man who shows American audiences on a large crystal ball showing the awful future that awaits the US if it joins in the war. Cap and Bucky are able to break this propaganda show up. In the course of this story, we meet Agent Thirteen for the first time. Fantastic Four #38 The Wingless Wizard (formerly the Wizard) argues with his teammates in the Frightful Four, the Trapster (formerly Paste Pot Pete), Medusa, and Sandman, and ultimately establishes why he is their leader with his mastery of gravity (basically he can fling things around with his anti-gravity tech). The Frightful Four kidnap Sue Storm, and the world takes notice. They take her to a small atoll in the ocean, and the Fantastic Four give chase, tracking them down and attacking the other foursome. The Human Torch is captured but then rescued by Reed and Ben, and the battle between the two foursomes then begins in earnest. Ultimately, the Frightful Four leave the atoll, leaving the Fantastic Four on the island moments before it is to be blown up by a bomb. The bomb detonates, but fortunately Sue protects her teammates in a force field, floating unconscious on the water’s surface. Assumed before the next episode: People are wondering what the deal is with these superpowered people and the number 4. This episode takes place: After the Frightful Four have bested the Fantastic Four, and assume they have been blown up. Full Transcript: Edward: Mike, it is kidnapping week here on the show, , Michael: and I didn't even mark it in my calendar, but you're right. Every year it creeps up on me every year. Kidnapping week, you know, I just think really it's kidnapping week. It's been that long. Oh gee. Edward: Yeah. Yeah. It's time for the friends and family of our heroes to be put at risk where the villains come in and, use them as leverage to. I dunno, I guess to get the heroes to fight. Why, they couldn't have just got them to fight before, it feels like most of these heroes won't turn down a chance to fight with these villains. Like I think the kidnapping part is a little unnecessary. Michael: It does seem unnecessary and maybe that's why we're taking a little jaunty view of it, where yes, they're being kidnapped, but it usually works out , no one's really injured. It makes it...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the trial of the century! Namor the Submariner is on trial for vandalism, which seems like a minor charge for the head of state of an empire that attempted to take over the world. He is represented by celebrity lawyer Matthew Murdock. Murdock, who also represents the Fantastic Four in real estate matters and is accordingly well familiar with super-powered individuals and their super-powered issues. But regardless of client base, can one lawyer really understand civil AND criminal law? Is Murdock too specialized … or not specialized enough? Behind the issue: Namor continues to be one of the only “anti-heroes” in Marvel Comics at the time. He is self-righteous and impatient, but he is also honorable and motivated by more than taking over the world and being “evil”. Stan Lee clearly liked writing this character, and he will soon get his own monthly feature. In this issue: Namor, as leader of Atlantis, wants to find a peaceful way to take over the surface world. He visits Matt Murdock and tells him he wants to sue the human race Murdock says that’s impossible, and Namor leaves in a huff. He then causes a ruckus in New York City, causing wanton property damage, leading to his arrest after battling Daredevil (who is secretly Matt Murdock) in the streets. Murdock then represents Namor on the criminal charges brought against him, and countercharges the human race (which is quickly, and correctly, thrown out of court). Namor is then informed of a rebellion back home, which causes him to just leave the jail and attempt to return home. Daredevil battles Namor again, and does quite well, but ultimately Namor wins the battle and returns to his life below the waves. Assumed before the next episode: Matt Murdock rethinks his approach to the practice of law after this disastrous experience. This episode takes place: After Namor returns to the sea. Full transcript: Edward: Mike, does this mean that we're defendants? Are we defendants because we're part of the human race? ? Micheal: Short answer, no. , no. But it's a surprising turn of events in, Edward: is it though, is it surprising? Is it actually surprising? Micheal: I guess we should, we should never use the word surprising when it comes to superheroes and New York City. But, the recent news. Not surprising, but unfortunate from a lawyer's perspective about the abuse of the legal system and the justice system. I would say, Edward: Mike, you can handle it when they tear apart our cities, but when they tear apart our legal system, that's when you get upset. Micheal: That's a long too far. Ed. That's just a, just, it's too much. It's outrageous. It's outrageous. I'll say that, Edward: So, hey, what I'm talking about here is that, Namo, the Submariner, the Prince of Atlantis, was charged with what, with vandalism. He's going to jail for vandalism, , Micheal: pretty penny anti stuff, like causing a ruckus in the city and causing damage. And then he hires a pretty wellknown lawyer. A lawyer we've talked about before, Matt Murd. Edward: Yeah. Matt Murdoch. So he represents the Fantastic four. He also had some notoriety in the past. He came forward and said that made this big claim that he could prove that Daredevil and the Matador were the same person and it turned out that that was not true. , that Daredevil is not the Matador. And, he got a little bit of egg on his face for that one, but now he's back, he's back in the public eye. Probably the most famous lawyer in the world, right. . Micheal: Yeah. So, I've always found it confusing when I've read about Mad Murdoch, cuz I thought he was mainly a criminal lawyer. So it's odd that he would be on retainer or have anything to do with a Fantastic Four. But here at least he, it started out as being a criminal matter like NAR was charged with an offense and had to appear in criminal court. But what was confusing? Which causes me to question Matt Murdoch. As a lawyer is that he filed a counter...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the battle between the Avengers and the Masters of Evil - not to be confused with the Brotherhood of Evil. Ed explains the importance of differentiation in your brand - you don’t want to be confused for someone else. Mike wants to know if every superhero also has to be a tailor in their spare time. How many costumes does someone like Spider-Man own? Is his summer costume made with different material than his winter costume? Is the real benefit of being on a super team the laundry services? And why is Giant-Man re-branding yet again? The red and blue suits you, big guy, now stop fiddling with it and just embrace the fit! Behind the issue: This is the last full issue of this Avengers roster. The next issue, Avengers #16, completely changes the membership (more on that when we cover that issue). This issue ends on a cliffhanger but is wrapped up quickly in the next issue. The battle is used as the driver of why most of the team members decide to leave the organization. Also in this issue, Captain America battles Baron Zemo one-on-one and kills him. But that takes place in a far away country and is, at this point, unknown to the wider public. In this issue: Steve Rogers is contemplating a career change. As he does so, he notices the supervillains the Enchantress and the Executioner drive by, and he chases after them but they get away. Steve changes into his Captain America gear and reports back to the Avengers about the evil duo being in the city. They resolve to deal with them, but before they can do so, Rick Jones is kidnapped right in front of them by henchmen working for Baron Zemo. The Enchantress and the Executioner then break the Black Knight and the Melter out of prison and have them join their team with Zemo, the Masters of Evil. Iron Man and Thor do battle with the Black Knight and the Melter high above the city, while Giant-Man and the Wasp chase after the Enchantress and the Executioner at street level. The villains are ultimately defeated. At the same time, on a separate mission, Captain America locates Rick and frees him, with Zemo dying in the process by his own hand (accidentally). Assumed before the next episode: People are keeping an eye out in the streets for large muscular people in costumes, and then running for their lives so they are not caught up in a super-person battle. This episode takes place: After the Avengers have defeated the Masters of Evil. Full transcript: Edward: All right. That's what I'm talking about, Mike. We got the Avengers fighting a League of Evil super villains in the city. They're back to doing what we pay them to do. Michael: Or somebody pays them to do , but definitely Edward: our tax dollars at work. Mike, our tax dollars at work, Michael: back to business, doing what we want them to do and not dealing with what was the last thing that they're caught up in, just. Regular, Edward: regular, regular what wasn't like giant man dealing with the mafia, I just felt like know, like get, get, get back on track. We have police that can deal with the regular stuff, but when you have a guy who can melt walls and an enchant who's casting magic spells and an as guardian and executioner, now is the time to step in with superpower people. Michael: That's right if we're anything Ed, we definitely believe in specialties and specialists. and superheroes are by definition specialists in super villains, not just, you know, rescuing cats stuck in trees and, and, uh, Edward: oh, my, I would be mundane, angry if Thor was spending his time getting cats outta trees. like, I feel like, like, not, not a good use of tax dollars. I dunno what we're paying him, but I figure we could pay someone a lot less to get the cats outta the trees. . Michael: But that being said, if my cat got stuck in a tree, I'd rather Thor flew up there than I had to climb a tree and possibly break my neck trying to rescue the bloody cat. But anyways, Edward: I, okay. Like you are...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the increased police presence in the city and how that is affecting both real and perceived crime. Is this because police have less to do as a result of the superheroes helping out? Is the presence of superheroes itself causing criminals to give up lives of crime, and maybe even become heroes? More to the point, is that what happened with the Green Goblin - he was inspired to become a hero? If so, why has he not changed his appearance? Does he want to be scary, or is what he truly looks? And how the heck does he balance on that glider - does he have abs of steel? Behind the Issue: This is the third appearance of the Green Goblin. Clearly, he does not become a hero. Steve Ditko and Stan Lee decided to keep the Goblin’s identity secret, but behind the scenes they were debating who he should be. Lee wanted him to be someone from Peter’s life, but Ditko wanted him to be a stranger. The disagreement meant that the Goblin’s identity remained a secret from the readers until Ditko left the title (the Goblin’s identity was revealed in the first issue after Ditko was replaced). Oh, the drama! In this issue: The Green Goblin tries to take over the New York City underworld, and while they are not convinced, he is definitely scaring them. Meanwhile, Peter Parker notices that former reporter and criminal Frederick Foswell is back at the Bugle. Apparently, the Bugle’s publisher J. Jonah Jameson believes in redemption, or at least the value in giving people a second chance. Peter is not convinced that this is a redemption story, though, and he tails Foswell, whom he notices speaking with a thug. Foswell turns over information to Jameson that the thug had on a crime boss, who in turn provides this information to the police. The Goblin is overjoyed with these pieces falling into place - he has set this whole thing up to help him with his hostile takeover of the world of crime. Peter then changes into his Spider-Man outfit and tracks the Goblin, who tricks him into conflict with a mob boss and his lieutenants. Spider-Man basically does the Goblin’s dirty work, taking out the gang and leaving them for the police. Realizing he has been played for the fool, Spider-Man finds and attacks the Goblin, who gets away. It’s not all roses for the Goblin, though, who is disappointed to find out that Spider-Man did too good a job when he took down the mob boss and his entire gang, with the result that the Goblin had no gang to take over. Assumed before the next episode: The Green Goblin is going to need to rethink his whole gang takeover strategy. This episode takes place: After Spider-Man took down an entire gang. Full transcript: Edward: Feeling safer these days? Mike? Michael: No. ? No, I wouldn't say so. , Edward: I feel like, like there's increased police presence on the streets. They're putting some crime bosses away. Is New York not a safer place than it was even a few weeks ago? Michael: Oh, well I guess that's standard than maybe, but I definitely have noticed a greater police presence in the last little while, certainly since the, a. Population of superpowered individuals on the scene. Do I feel safer before buildings could be captured and kidnapped and brought into space? I wouldn't say so in, you know, multiple invasions in New York City, but Edward: so, so, so, so clearly. Life is less safe now than it was in 1960 before. Michael: Right Edward: buildings. Were getting torn away, but I'm just talking about recently, like recently it feels like the superheroes are out on the streets. There's a bunch of them now. It feels like they're covering the ground around the monsters and the super villains, and that's freeing up the police to go and take out the normal villains. Michael: Well, I think so. I have noticed that there's more police for sure. I, don't know what element of that is performative and what element is that the costume vigilantes that we speak about every week have been in addition...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss the peace treaty between Earth and the Skrull Empire, as negotiated by Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four. How does Reed have the authority to sign such a treaty on behalf of Earth? Do the ends justify the means? Don’t the Fantastic Four have a conflict of interest given that a Skrull killed Sue Storm’s father? How would we feel if a Russian super team completed this negotiation? And now that we have gone to another galaxy, are we going to be able to go to Mars? More detailed summary of the podcast (from AI): Edward and Michael are discussing the Fantastic Four's recent mission to the Skrull’s home world. Edward believes that peace has been achieved, thanks to the efforts of Reed Richards. Michael is skeptical and points out that there is no evidence to support Reed's claims, and that the Fantastic Four's actions could be seen as hostile and unauthorized. He questions who authorized the mission and if it was sanctioned by the United Nations. Edward believes that sometimes the US needs to take action, even if it's not sanctioned by the UN, and that in this case, it worked out. Michael is concerned about what would happen if it didn't work out. Behind the issue: This is the first appearance of the Skrull home world, but it is not named here (and is not named until 1983 — “Tarnax IV”). The Skrulls keep their promise not to invade Earth for three years, but change their minds in Captain Marvel #2 when they discover that the Kree had an interest in the planet. In this issue: Sue Storm is unhappy that the Skrulls were not punished for killing her father. This leads to Reed Richards deciding to take the team to the Skrulls’ homeworld to bring the murderer of Sue’s father to justice. And so the team embarks on this mission, flying in a spaceship of Reed’s design, and with the blessing of NASA. They land on the Skrull. homeward and battle the Skrulls, leading to their capture. They are held captive by the Skrull who murdered Sue’s father, Morrat, who plans to murder the Fantastic Four too. Just before they are killed, Reed offers Morrat unlimited power in exchange for sparing their lives. Meanwhile, Morrat’s girlfriend Anelle tells her father, the Skrull King, that Morrat has captured the Fantastic Four. This angers the King, who races to confront Morrat. Before he arrives, it is revealed that Reed tricked Morrat into repowering the team (they had been depowered when they were captured), and this time the Four are about to defeat the Skrulls when the King arrives with reinforcements. Anelle is nearly killed by accident by the soldiers during their standoff with the Fantastic Four but is saved by Sue’s invisible forcefield. This leads to Reed negotiating with the King to deliver to them the Skrull who killed Sue’s father. They learn that it was Morrrat, who has been killed in the firefight. The Fantastic Four then journey home, safe and sound from their adventure. Assumed before the next episode: Reed starts to wonder how far he will go to impress Sue. What do you do after nearly starting an intergalactic war? This episode takes place: After the Fantastic Four return from their wildly irresponsible revenge mission to the Skrull homeward. Full transcript: Edward: Reed Richards has done it again, Mike. There is peace in the world. Peace in the universe. There's peace in the galaxy in the entire universe. We are no longer at war with the scrolls. Thank you. Reed. Richards. Michael: Well, okay. ? Yes. If we believe what Reed Richards says, then sure. But much like a lot of Reed Richard. Advice to us about battles and adventures that are unseen. There's no other proof beyond his good word. And what's kind of crazy right now is that what we're talking about is how Reed Richards and his team, the Fantastic Four, went to the scroll home world. Edward: That's right. We took the battle to them. They've been invading us, and we said, you know what? Enough of this, we're gonna take the battle...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss how to pronounce “Madam Macabre”. Is she a villain or just a Giant-Man competitor? Can we trust Giant-Man on this? How fast will growing/shrinking technology proliferate? And why is everyone with a superpower a hero or a villain? Why not just use your abilities to save some money or become an entrepreneur? Behind the issue: This is the first and only appearance (so far) of Madam Macabre. Part two of this issue is a Hulk feature, which is not covered in the podcast. The only public fact of the Hulk feature is that Bruce Banner is in the Soviet Union, and it is unclear if he is defecting or kidnapped again. In this issue: Giant-Man and the Wasp story Madam Macabre is able to use technology to shrink inanimate objects. She is envious of Giant-Man’s ability to shrink himself. And so she sets up a meeting with Giant-Man. She explains at the meeting that she was mentored and tutored by the supervillain the Mandarin. She then makes the pitch for Giant-Man to quit the Avengers and to partner with her in some vague plan to take over the world. Being the hero that he is, Giant-Man rejects the offer. She returns to her lair and schemes to defeat the Giant-Man. The step in this scheme is to kidnap the Wasp, which lures Giant-Man to her lair. He is trapped in a shrinking room, but the Wasp breaks free and rescues him. The Wasp then successfully defeats Madam Macabre and frees Giant-Man. Hulk story The Hulk is trapped in the Soviet Union. A kindhearted Soviet scientist helps him out, but he is killed. This causes the Hulk to become very angry. He goes on a rampage at the Soviet base, where he is stuck for a while, and eventually escapes. Assumed before the next episode: People are starting to wonder about all of the superheroes and supervillains with similar powers. This episode takes place: After Madam Macabre has been soundly defeated. Full transcript: Edward: Mike first there was giant man, then there was the wasp, and now is there. There is mad. Mc, oh my gosh. I can't even say the word. You can't say it, eh, I can't say it. Madam Mc mc macur mebrak. Madam. I can't, I can read the word Mike. I just can't say it out loud. Micheal: I think you need to start watching some old films. Macra describes like some old classic film noir, if I'm thinking of it correctly, but certainly it's a word. Macca Edward: Mac. But here's The Thing. You should do so. So say the. First person who can shrink ant man, first person that can grow. Giant man. Very descriptive names. The wasp also like descriptive as in small animal. You'd think that Spider-Man could also shrink, but no, he doesn't. But this new person who has the ability to grow and shrink things, Madam Mak, uh, has nothing to do with, with changing size. Like what type of name? Micheal: Well, it's not descriptive, but, I would award points for originality. I think the intention behind calling yourself Madam Mac is that you're suggesting some malhi days. You know, you're suggesting some mallin, some malicious intent. Right. And, certainly some, darkness to her. And she was according to giant man, she was, Villain who could shrink. Just like him, right? Edward: And according to giant man, she was like stealing something that, like a art gallery or something. She was breaking in and stealing stuff and they caught her. To be fair though, we only have giant man's word on that. We have No, I don't, I dunno if there's any evidence that she was actually doing that other than giant man say so. Micheal: Other than name, other than the word of an unknown vigilant, master vigilante who happens to have captured someone with the exact same power set as him. It seems, if I was being cynical, I would say that I would question whether a giant man is trying to take out the competition. But we know he is, he's been a hero. It's just that, that he's also human, I think, and so maybe he just felt threatened by having somebody with the same power. Being out in...

In this episode: Mike and Ed discuss how the Wasp is being treated while she is in critical condition and digress into trying to understand just how fast Thor can fly. He can cross the Atlantic in three minutes. That is faster than any plane, train, or automobile! Is it faster than a rocket? Does he light the air on fire? What would it be like to be saved by Thor at that speed? Do we need to worry about mid-air collisions? Should we apply speed limits to superheroes? Full episode summary: The Trouble with Thor's Speed - Controlling Velocity for Protection. 1. The Wasp's Critical Condition: An Update 2. Uncovering the Mystery Behind Thor's Travels 3. Controlling Thor's Speed: A Discussion 4. Speed Limits: The Need for Superhuman Regulation The Wasp in Critical Condition Reports of the Wasp's condition have been grim, but optimistic. She is currently stable but in critical care. With the Avengers involved, it is unclear what sort of medical help she is receiving and what types of injuries she sustains. It could be something as common as a car accident or sports injury, or something more specific to what the Avengers do. The Mystery of Thor's Travel Interestingly, Thor has been reported to have been flying around the world, potentially looking for a specific doctor to help the Wasp. Reports also indicated that he flew across the Atlantic in three minutes, much faster than any plane could go. Whether he is flying suborbital, as some science fiction theories suggest, or following flight paths at a certain altitude to avoid mid-air collisions, it is remarkable to consider the speeds at which Thor is traveling. One aspect of Thor's power that often goes overlooked is his impressive speed. During a podcast discussion, the hosts discussed just how fast Thor can fly. They estimated that Thor can fly at about 80 times the speed of sound - Mach 80 - which is much faster than any mechanical aircraft on Earth, and even faster than a rocket to the moon. Controlling Thor's Speed: The hosts then discussed how Thor's speed might be useful in saving people. They concluded that Thor would need to understand how to control the speed. If he could fly to someone quickly but then decelerate to a stop, he could rescue them before they were injured. They also discussed the amount of power behind his speed, and the air displacement it could cause if Thor flew by someone on the street. All in all, Thor's speed is an extremely impressive part of his power set and is a major factor in why he is considered one of the most powerful superheroes., The speaker highlights the potential problem of an individual traveling at a speed far beyond what humans would normally experience. They discuss the potential damage that could be caused in the wake of someone flying at such a high speed. The speaker questions whether the superhero, Thor, should partake in control testing far away from other people, to see the damage that could be caused by traveling at such a high speed. They point out that although the idea of traveling from one place to another quickly may sound great, it could lead to destruction in his path. The speaker emphasizes the need for speed limits for a reason, to ensure that people are not traveling too fast, resulting in destruction. Behind the issue: This issue deals with the cliffhanger we were left with in issue #13, with the Wasp in critical condition. The story introduces a new alien race, the Kallusians, but they are not revealed to the human race, and they are never mentioned again in the Marvel Universe. In this issue: The Wasp is in critical condition, and with not a moment to spare, Thor flies to Norway to basically kidnap a medical specialist, Dr. Svenson, to hopefully save the Wasp’s life. It turns out that Dr. Svenson is an alien in disguise, and when his mask is removed he dies. And so the Avengers are now on the hunt to find the real Dr. Svenson. They do that by tracking down the aliens in the North Pole; they have a...