The Unforgiving60

On Riana during SAS Australia: “She’s a brilliant human. No bullshit, no ego, she just knuckled down and suffered well on the show” - Dr Dan Pronk In this episode, Ben and Tim speak to television personality, SAS Australia candidate and all round superstar Riana Crehan- footnote that she is also a fellow West Coast Eagle supporter! Brought up on a chicken farm Riana spent most of her childhood outdoors and dancing. In 2007 Riana got a work experience role with the V8 Supercars working on their onsite broadcast. The rest is (Supercars) history. She is a journalistic icon on the screens of motor sports in Australia. Married to Will Davison (Dick Johnson Racing Supercar driver), Riana balances work and life (including motherhood)- juggling demanding travel schedules. You will also have seen Riana when she took part as a contestant on SAS Australia, and she aced it. And amidst it all Riana manages to also stay fit including through cycling and triathlon. SHOW NOTES 03:00 On growing up on a chicken farm; dancing and playing sports 08:20 Riana decides to study nursing 09:45 How and where does car racing fit in?! 14:15 Riana the introvert- and talking about how many introverts occupy a ‘stage’ 15:20 Leadership roles and natural talent- does it exist? 17:50 How does Riana deal with criticism- particularly social media warriors 22:20 How can one get interested in Supercars? What is it like? 24:40 Tim talks about working with a Supercars Team- athletes and high performance. Riana gives context? 28:20 The narrowing of sporting margins 31:00 Riana talks about her time on SAS Australia 36:10 Talking imposter syndrome… how to take stock of that. 38:50 Talking shared hardshop and team building 42:10 Dr Dan says that Riana knows about ‘suffering well’. Riana responds and gives context on how she suffers well and what got her through the difficult moments 50:30 On motherhood, and the juggling game of life 55:00 Riana’s power song is here External Links https://www.rianacrehan.com/about https://www.instagram.com/rianacrehan/?hl=en https://www.supercars.com Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify And Enjoy Band – available on Spotify

As a special Anzac Day release, please enjoy our chat with MAJGEN (ret’d) Jake Ellwood. Jake is currently the Chief Executive Officer of the Queensland Reconstruction Authority, a role which puts him at the forefront of reconstruction and resilience within the state, particularly in the face of relentless natural disasters. And he’s definitely the man for the job, having spent a long, distinguished and varied first career within the Army, rising to the rank of Major General. In this episode, Jake talks to the boys about his early days, the highlights of his Army career, his philosophy of leadership and character and what he thinks can make a community resilient. 05:20 Straight out of the gate – why ‘Jake’?! 07:30 Jake’s military background, from a private in the Army Reserve….to a Major General in the fulltime Army (including run-ins with both hosts at various points in his career!) 12:00 From such a long, varied and distinguished career, what are the standout moments? 15:48 Jake’s view on character as an indispensable leadership quality… and the role of ethics within this 27:30 Are ‘kids these days’ less resilient than we used to be back in the day? 32:26 Jake’s current role as the CEO of the Queensland Reconstruction Authority 36:30 What are communities doing well to ensure their resilience against – and during – natural disasters? 42:10 What does Jake do for himself? (Answer: Running!) 45:05 The mental aspects of running – and how to overcome the mental difficulties of running 48:30 Jake on running the 2018 Boston Marathon (renowned as one of the most miserable Bostons ever! Check this out!) 52:44 Jake on Run Army, its beginnings and what it means to him 1:04:20 Jake looking forward to running the 2024 Run Army in a week’s time (postscript – while Jake spoke about doing this race at a casual, enjoyable pace, it turns out his version of ‘casual’ is probably different to most of ours – he came in the top 60 in just over 40 minutes!) 1:10:41 What is Jake’s ‘power song’? External Links Run Army Dr Simon Longstaff, Executive Director of The Ethics Centre Queensland Reconstruction Authority Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

This week’s guest is Dr Luana Main, a Senior Lecturer in Applied Sport Science at Deakin University. An athlete herself, Luana’s research focuses on optimizing human performance and, in particular, finding the sweet spot between optimal load and overtraining. She has applied this research in areas including elite sport and the military and talks with Ben and Tim about how we can all apply some of these same concepts in our day-to-day lives. 04:45 Luana’s background – and the third-year uni lecture that sparked her lifelong interest in overtraining syndrome. 07:00 First of all – what is overtraining?! 08:20 There’s a number of biomarkers associated with overtraining, but what are the subjective indications that someone might be overtraining? (PS – based on Luana’s response, there is potential that Tim is overtraining……) 09:30 Are subjective measures of diagnosing overtraining as effective as objective measures? 13:00 How can we get better at the basics, when it comes to lowering our steady state stress load? 14:40 Heart rate variability as a measure of stress 17:00 Discussion on wearables 20:55 What are the non-negotiables when it comes to improving performance? And how exactly do we do these? 25:15 Luana’s work with the military 29:30 The impact of overtraining on cognitive function 33:50 Luana on ‘the good, the bad and the ugly’ of stress 39:00 What areas of research would Luana love to get into next? 41:20 What does Luana do for herself? External Links The Stroop Test – give it a go! Luana’s LinkedIn Luana’s research and publications Luana’s work at Deakin University Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

Ben and Tim try to remember what an 'RV' actually is.... reconciliation and reflection, before we talk about our respective travel. From Morocco, Barcelona, Chicago, Brisbane, Hobart .... and more! Then reflections on Jaz Diab, Dr Rob Barbour, Ian Prior and the Festival of Veterans Art. Then as usual talking rubbish about the perfect Easter Egg, Popcorn from Chicago..... and encouraging outright criticism! Music: With thanks to The Externals as well as Ben Frichot Contact: www.unforgiving60.com debrief@unforgiving60.com

In this episode, Ben and Tim speak to Rachel Vickery. Rachel spent her formative years as a national level gymnast and Commonwealth Games representative for her native New Zealand before training as a respiratory physiotherapist. Drawing from this unique background, Rachel now works to help people increase their performance in domains ranging from NBA basketball to the boardroom. Rachel shares her thoughts on how to deal with stress, both in your daily life and at ‘go time’ and provides a unique insight into some of the pressures faced by athletes and coaches at the elite levels of sport. And to wrap it up, she gives us not just one, but four power songs! 05:11 As customary in season five, the boys bang on about how hot their podcast studio is – and ask Rachel is “Bikram Podcasting” is good for recovery?! 06:30 Rachel’s background – personal, sporting and professional, including her exploits as a national level gymnast 10:40 Good for a Girl – excellent book by US middle distance runner Lauren Fleshman 11:15 The pressure of ‘Growing Up In Lycra’ – training and competing in aesthetic sports, particularly as a female and particularly during puberty 16:00 The devastating impacts of RED-S (Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport) 24:24 A discussion of the importance and impacts of menstruation on female athletic development 28:30 Rachel’s work on a report into the cultural problems inside NZ gymnastics 33:30 We’ve heard of athletes being bullied, but coaches are not immune from bullying either 39:50 The importance of maximising the buffer between steady state and ‘go time’ by lowering your steady state stress – and the potential for ‘fear of success’ 44:00 How do we lower both steady state pressure and ‘go time’ arousal state? 48:30 Rachel talks to the negative impacts of alcohol on athletic performance – and Tim offers a powerful counter-factual! 49:30 Shifting the narrative from fear to gratitude – and the importance of doing the common uncommonly well 51:40 Getting rid of toxins – dietary and otherwise – from your life 54:00 Rachel’s three point ‘get out of jail card’ 56:20 The ‘three dickhead rule’ (…or how to check if you’re the dickhead!) 57:30 Rachel on the shortfalls on the current ‘breathwork’ fad 1:12:30 What does Rachel do for herself? Including long-distance travel thoughts 1:18:00 The importance of conducting experiments on yourself to work out what is going to help your recovery 1:20:30 Rachel’s power song(s)!! External Links Rachel’s website – https://rachelvickery.com/ Gymnastics New Zealand Independent Report – co-authored by Rachel Rachel’s LinkedIn Rachel’s Breathing Baseline Reset & Habit Breaker Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

Do you believe that being creativity builds resilience? Well this week we aim to convince you so get ready. In support of the the upcoming www.fova.org.au we outline how: From Ruth Richards (Harvard), “Engaging in creative behaviours, makes us more dynamic, conscious, non-defensive, observant, collaborative, and brave.” “Everyday creative activity is a path to flourishing”- Conner, DeYoung and Silvia in the Journal of Positive Psychology. Recent experience sampling and diary studies have shown that spending time on creative goals during a day is associated with higher activated positive affect (PA) (flourishing) on that day. The real question isn't "How creative are you?" but rather "How are you creative?" says educational psychologist Donald Treffinger. Intelligence Summary (INTSUM) 03:30 Announcement from Mark Johnson from anvam.org.au 04:20 What’s the problem that means we need creativity? 05:50 What is flow state? 09:40 What does the research and literature say? 10:30 “Brave, non-defensive and collaborative” 14:50 Laminate your neural pathways! 18:00 From Tara Swart at MiT…. Expose your brain to novelty 20:20 What is creativity for Tim and Ben? 32:15 Why did Ben have a guitar in his backpack in the SAS (artists in foxholes) 35:00 SAS Band Tongue Charge play a cover of ‘Getting Away with It in Afghanistan’… and we talk why?! 44:30 Art and identity 47:00 How do we get going? Go join a pub choir! 52:00 Ben and Tim do galleries and museums 55:00 Tongue Charge play another song: “One Crowded Hour” References: www.fova.org.au https://www.anvam.org.au Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: Tongue Charge The Externals – available on Spotify Ben Frichot

Ian Prior is MORE than just a professional rugby player with over a decade of ‘high speed collisions in confined spaces’. He’s incredibly well read and researched. He meditates and practices journaling. He uses ice baths and loves the beach. He’s about performance and optimisation, but uses that to improve his being a dedicated father and husband. This is also a story about tenacity. In the early stages of his career Ian was on the fringes of representative and first class rugby. But his determination and commitment to self improvement got him playing across three Super Rugby Franchises for over a decade. He talks about ‘how’ and ‘what’ he does. We also talk wicked problems and how they apply to Australian Rugby. Intelligence Summary (INTSUM) 04:00 Start the Bikram Podcast 05:10 Growing Up including in Africa 06:00 Media hasn’t been kind to Zimbabwe- what’s it really like? 08:10 Ian describes his physical stature- and how that fits into rugby 08:50 Superbowl/ NFL v rugby comparison 11:50 Back to Australia after Zimbabwe- school and sport (more of the latter than the former!) 15:05 Are the best sports people generalists or specialists? 16:59 Ian Prior’s three posters on his wall as a kid- Ricky Ponting, Matt Burke and Ben Pronk!? 20:32 Ian gets an opportunity in the Australian U20 rugby side 22:00 Ian Prior hangs up repeatedly on Queensland Red’s coach Ewan McKenzie… and interviewing for the Reds. What three questions did Ewan ask Ian? 25:00 What makes the best players? 28:00 Ian joins the Reds and wins a series 30:00 Does playing a lot of footy together (or anything together) really matter in success? 32:00 Ian moves franchises to the Brumbies…. Why? Life in Canberra. 37:15 How does leadership work in a rugby club? 41:10 Resilience Shepherds in rugby- some good examples 44:20 Ian moves to the Western Force 50:10 Ian’s journaling, meditation and grounding and its importance to performance 57:00 Ice baths? Stretching…. How to wind down 58:20 Talking strength and conditioning, loads and training blocks 1:06:00 Ian’s leadership- how did he Captain the Western Force? 1:16:20 Talking Australian Rugby and wicked problems. References: About Ian Prior Sydney Morning Herald Article on Australian Rugby ‘Wicked Problems’ article Rittel and Webber ‘Positive Visualization and Its Effects on Strength Training’- Watkins and Turner https://westernforce.rugby Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

Get a medical degree and then do SAS selection – as a Doctor!? Sounds mad. Well listen in. Born in Kenya, Dr Rob Barbour spent his formative years in Australia gaining a medical degree and serving in the Australian special forces including on peacekeeping missions.Having never lost his love for his birthplace, Rob migrated to Tanzania to start a socially responsible and community conservation orientated safari operation and a private community conservation area. Rob subsequently joined Epic Private Journeys as a partner and private guide in Eastern and Southern Africa where he was able to share with Epic's guests his experience and passion for the natural world and local cultures, as well as his belief in poverty alleviation through conservation. Intelligence Summary (INTSUM) 03:05 Dr Rob Barbour tells the story of growing up in Kenya… and how his family got there! School, farming and childhood adventures. 09:25 Ben has to ask about running…. in Kenya…. And he asks a rugby player! 10:20 The Barbour family considers a move to Australia 11:50 What was eating the livestock!? 12:50 Culture shock- from Kenya to Perth 18:00 Rob is trying to work out what to do after school. Study medicine! 21:20 After medicine Rob thinks about joining the Army- and does! 23:40 Rob is a little lax on entry to the Army 26:20 Rob decides to undertake SAS selection… as a Doctor! 31:00 SAS selection in Rob’s experience 33:33 Tim meets Rob on SAS Selection- Ben reckons it was in the Sick Bay 36:20 What tools does Rob use to keep focussed 29:30 Tools can be simple 41:30 Rob finishes his time in the SAS and moves back to Africa (via PNG) 54:20 Discussing poaching in Africa 58:20 How can you control the incentives against poaching 1:01:10 Similarities between PNG and Africa 1:04:20 Rob explains the migration and safaris 1:11:30 Any good movies on the silver screen that show Africa as it truly is? 1:18:10 Rob’s power song…. Or not?! More on Rob’s Adventures Here: https://epicprivatejourneys.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/epic-private-journeys/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-barbour-6b696027/ Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify Mitchell Martin- – available on Spotify

In this episode, we continue our chat with Jaz Diab, the multi-talented former Commanding Officer of the Australian Special Operations Engineer Regiment. Jaz reflects on her experiences as one of the first females in combat roles within Special Operations, before looking at her transition out of the military and subsequent focus on nuclear science. Jaz then talks us through some of the difficulties in progressing the conversation related to nuclear energy in Australia, as well as her role as the President of Women in Nuclear – Australia. 01:30 Was Jaz forging a new path for women through her example in the Army? (Spoiler alert: she absolutely was. We just wanted to see if she thought she was at the time!) 03:50 Reflections on the parallels with Monika Georgieva’s trailblazing role as a female within the infantry corps (check out our episode with Monika back in Season 2 Episode 3) 06:45 Jaz’s role as an Explosive Ordnance Disposal technician – bomb disposal! The pressure of the role – physical and psychological. And just how accurate is the movie The Hurt Locker?! 13:30 Ben goes off on a tangential rant about restocking the fridge when you take a cold beverage…. 14:00 Tim brings the conversation back on track by asking about Jaz’s experience as an aide to the Chief of Army 15:00 Reflections from the top – the pressures on leaders of big organisations 21:45 Tim remembers trying to beat the Chief of Army in a run 22:40 Jaz leaves the Army – and gets even more interested in nukes! Plus her reflections on why Australia has such difficulties considering nuclear power as a potential alternative to fossil fuels 26:30 The risks of nuclear power – are they overblown given modern technology? And how can we safely dispose of nuclear waste? 31:30 The difference between fission and fusion – and how feasible is cold fusion? 32:30 Jaz’s role as President of Women in Nuclear – Australia 37:00 Being a mum – harder than defusing bombs! Jaz talks to her experience as the mother of a gorgeous little girl with achondroplasia – a form of dwarfism. 41:20 On finding out about her daughter’s condition – and dealing with this news and what it meant for her child 46:00 How has Jaz and her partner worked through these challenges External Links ANVAM – Australian National Veterans Arts Museum – www.anvam.org.au Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

In this special double episode, we talk with Jaz Diab – a mum, a self-described ‘nerd’ and crochet aficionado, who also happens to be a nuclear scientist and the former Commanding Officer of the Australian Special Operations Engineer Regiment. Jaz talks us through her childhood, getting bitten by the science bug and her eventual entry into the military, as well as her experiences as a (very humble) trailblazer for females in combat roles. And along the way, reflects on some of the key decisions she’s made throughout her life and the potential crossover between Broadway actors and Army officers! 05:40 Ben inadvertently realises that the podcast’s highest rating show was the one where he spoke the least! 07:40 About Jaz – early childhood, tragedy within the family and how close she is with her siblings 13:00 Jaz’s parents.. or when an Egyptian guy meets a Finnish girl in Australia…. 15:00 On being a nerd 15:50 Career choices – Army or Broadway?! 17:45 As a leader – be authentic or ‘fake it ‘til you make it’? Plus public speaking as a leadership skill 26:00 When did Jaz get interested in science? 28:00 Jaz’s entry into the Army – and her family background in the military 29:10 A quick exploration of the Finnish concept of sisu – courtesy of Jaz’s grandfather 32:10 Jaz’s experience at the Australian Defence Force Academy 34:00 The highlights of Jaz’s military career 35:30 Jaz as a pioneering female in a combat corps – and how she found the environment there. Plus her work within the Incident Response Regiment (IRR) 37:30 IRR’s transition into the Special Operations Engineering Regiment – and its role in Afghanistan. And Jaz’s experience as the Commanding Officer of the unit. External Links ANVAM – Australian National Veterans Arts Museum – www.anvam.org.au Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

In this RV Ben and Tim discuss last year’s events, why they didn’t podcast last year, and where and what they have been up to. 01:00 Where have we been and why have we been off air? 01:50 Thanks to you and Vale Tim ‘Robbo’ Robertson- an inspiration to us 06:30 Tim runs The Wine Marathon 09:30 Ben talks running 14:00 Talking about 2023 travel destinations 15:00 Languages…. And Emily drops in to give an opinion 26:30 Tim talks about losing his Dad in October 2023 30:00 Resilience Mentor courses 32:55 Case Study- Leadership- Imposter Syndrome 37:00 Case Study- Police Tactical Group- embracing new and novel solutions (change your prism/ change your game) 42:30 What are our plans for 2024? 44:30 Riding 1100km cross country- the Munda Biddi Trail 52:20 Ben’s stencil art in the office. Ben explains. Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify

The Externals are 'Back on the Cans' .... as is the Unforgiving60 podcast. This is Season 5. New guests. New material. Same buffoon hosts. #unforgiving60 #podcast

Ben and Tim are back for Season 5 of the Unforgiving60 podcast..... some amazing new guests lined up as well as new format (albeit with the same old dudes). debrief@unforgiving60.com

This episode is a rerelease of our interview with Tim 'Robbo' Robertson. 'Robbo' was tragically killed in an aircraft accident in Queensland. Forever the professional. Forever the character. Forever the Chronic Overachiever. Forever in our memories. Vale Robbo. To where the Wandering Warriors roam. ***** Tim Robertson is an ex F18 fighter pilot who got bored of that and then successfully completed the Australian Special Air Service (SAS) Selection course! Robbo then saw operational service in Afghanistan and the Western Desert of Iraq, before leaving the military to: Consult to the United Nations || Advise an oil company in Geneva || Raise a nationally sensitive aviation capability || Start his own aviation company || And return to flying fast jets. He is current on around 40 different fixed and rotary winged aircraft and a highly talented musician. But Robbo talks about defining your happiness, the importance of hard work and overcoming adversity....

In this RV Ben and Tim discuss the years events, trends and ‘best ofs’ now that the world has opened back up and life has returned to having velocity. From books, global change, travel, music ….. and what challenges have the boys set themselves for 2023. 01:30 What is an RV? 03:15 Let’s start with some stats 05:30 What is the 5th rated country by download? You’ll be surprised! 07:00 Some of the guest episodes…. Reflecting 14:15 How guests fight back…. Maccas Christmas Card to the boys. 18:00 Musical interlude…. I on U by The Externals 18:45 What was the biggest world development in 2022? 25:45 Tim will be easy meat when AI take over the world 27:15 Best book read this year? Mastery by Robert Greene About Cicero Farnam Street Blog 37:45 Talking best travel in 2022 39:40 Project NEOM and the giga projects in Saudi Arabia 43:30 Music discoveries in 2023? And Enjoy Band play Mojos Bar in Perth on 28 January 2023 opening to Humble Armada 47:00 Ben’s listens outside of Kpop….. back to the future- rediscovering albums 52:10 Coolest discovery in 2022? 53:00 About Gravel Bikepacking 56:30 About Snake Island 57:30 The privilege of Walking Country with the Nyamal Rangers 58:30 What about quitting? When is it right to quit? 1:07:15 Goals for 2023 Bikepacking Mawson Trail and Munda Biddi Trail 1:09:00 Info on Tim’s ‘Longest Marathon’ is here 1:15:15 Sam Bloom dominating …. Her episode on the U60 is here. 1:17:00 Talking about the 2022 Resilience Retreat….. Have a great holiday period…… don’t forget to fill that unforgiving minute with 60 second worth of distance run! Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music …. With thanks to: The Externals – available on Spotify And Enjoy – available on Spotify ….and playing Mojos Bar on 28th January 2023

Ben and Tim are interviewed by Emily and Callum from Golds Gym. *********** The SAS guys with MBA's and Authors of the best-selling book 'The Resilience Shield' join us on the Gold's Gym podcast! Tim Curtis and Ben Pronk are leaders in their field and chat to us about all things resilience. You can also take their test to find out how resilient you are. Assess, understand and improve your resilience here: https://resilienceshield.com/assess-your-resilience/ Resilience is a lifelong individual endeavour and you can get active in your own rescue. Here's a brief overview of what you can expect to learn in this episode: This is an episode you're going to want to listen to multiple times over to absorb all of the information. Download today! Find the guys on social media: @resilienceshield Music by The Externals

Senator David Van is a Liberal Senator for Victoria, who was elected to the Senate in 2019. As part of this, and arguably as the main reason many Australians might recognise him, David has recently been very prominent in his support for the people of Ukraine. In this discussion, we speak with David about what this cause means to him and what the situation there might mean for all of us in Australia. We also explore David’s fascinating background, which includes time as a horticulturalist, in public relations and as a ski instructor, as well as his extensive interest in, and study into the current geo-political environment – David holds a Master of International Relations degree from Monash University and is undertaking a Master of Strategy and Security degree at UNSW at the Australian Defence Force Academy (ADFA). With all of this going on, we also ask David what he does for himself – exactly how does he stay healthy, happy and sane in the course of his busy and diverse life? 1:20 David’s upbringing – and experience in horticulture, public relations and ski instructing (all, as it turns out, very useful preparatory skills for a career in politics!) 7:22 Why the career change into politics? (and how do you get into politics?) 10:00 David’s support for Ukraine – and his frontline experience there 15:30 Is the conflict winnable (or loseable?) 18:30 What more should the West – including Australia – be doing? 22:30 What does the Ukraine situation mean for our region – and in particular, Chinese attitudes towards Taiwan? And what should Australia be doing about this? 29:10 David’s views on the current state of democracy – and its ability to stand up against emerging totalitarian regimes 32:00 David’s reflections on the current state of the Liberal party 35:00 How does David stay sane, fit and healthy? 36:50 On Josh Frydenberg 39:40 David’s reading recommendations… 41:40 …and his power song! 44:40 What’s next for David? www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 External Links David’s website Music The Externals – available on Spotify Ben Frichot - available on Spotify

TRIGGER WARNING. This episode discusses the 2002 Bali Bombing and involves content that some might find disturbing. ‘Macca’ is a knock about Aussie guy who 20 years ago at 19 years old played some pretty sub amateur footy at Kingsley Football Club in Perth. In October 2002, they won the team's first premiership and 20 people flew to Bali for an end-of-season trip to celebrate their victory. But only 13 of the teammates made it home. The remaining seven were killed in the Bali bombings, a terrorist attack which claimed the lives of 202 people, including 88 Australians. Macca remembers seeing and hearing the blast. He was sitting around a table in the Sari Club with some mates and some girls they had befriended that night. What happened in the aftermath, including his response, and the selfless response of his teammates is quite remarkable. This episode is powerful, but it also shows the caring side of Macca who has been profoundly affected by the incident. But it also shows his commitment to his own post traumatic growth. 07:30 Elite research on our guest 08:00 About Kingsley Football Club 08:30 Kingsley Football Club really sucked in 2001! 11:00 The win the Grand Final… and off to Bali they go! 14:00 Into the Sari Club…. Macca recounts the situation 19:00 Recall…. How our brains trick us…. Macca’s brains response 22:00 The startling result at Macca’s table. 8 metres from the bomb. Why/ How did Macca survive? 24:45 The Football Club refuse to leave…. Counting the cost. Trying to find their teammates. 26:30 How is Macca’s emotional state? 28:20 How long before the realisation that mates had been killed? 33:25 Coming home 45:00 After year one… revenge or forgiveness? 51:00 Maccas advice to those going through trauma Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 Music The Externals – available on Spotify Tongue Charge- not good enough to be available anywhere!! Mitchell Martin Nik Kali Helplines. For those who might be troubled here are some health support lines Lifeline on 13 11 14 — 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Beyond Blue aims to increase awareness of depression and anxiety and reduce stigma. Call 1300 22 4636, 24 hours/7 days a week, chat online or email. Blue Knot Foundation Helpline is the National Centre of Excellence for Complex Trauma. It provides support, education and resources for the families and communities of adult survivors of childhood trauma and abuse. Call 1300 657 380, Monday – Sunday between 9am – 5pm AEST or via email helpline@blueknot.org.au. eheadspace provides free online and telephone support and counselling to young people 12 – 25 and their families and friends. Call 1800 650 890, 9am – 1am AEST / 7 days a week, chat online or email. FriendLine supports anyone who's feeling lonely, needs to reconnect or just wants a chat. You can call them 7 days a week on 1800 424 287, or chat online with one of their trained volunteers. All conversations with FriendLine are anonymous. Kids Helpline is Australia’s only free 24/7 confidential and private counselling service specifically for children and young people aged 5 – 25. Call 1800 55 1800. Lifeline provides 24-hour crisis counselling, support groups and suicide prevention services. Call 13 11 14, text on 0477 13 11 14 (12pm to midnight AEST) or chat online. MensLine Australia is a professional telephone and online counselling service offering support to Australian men. Call 1300 78 99 78, 24 hours/7 days a week, chat online or organise a video chat. MindSpot is a free telephone and online service for people with anxiety, stress, low mood or depression. It provides online assessment and treatment for anxiety and depression. MindSpot is not an emergency or instant response service. Call 1800 61 44 34. SANE Australia provides support to anyone in Australia affected by complex mental health issues, as well as their friends, family members and...

Through their work with The Resilience Shield, Ben and Tim have become fascinated with the topic – and in particular, with evidence-based research related to it. A few months back, they saw an article talking about an Australian academic conducting a range of ground-breaking research into this exact topic and reached out to see if she would be interested in sharing her perspectives with the Unforgiving60. Associate Professor Justine Gatt is Lead Scientist of the Gatt Wellbeing & Resilience Group at Neuroscience Research Australia and the School of Psychology, UNSW. In this capacity, she leads a research program looking at the neuroscience of wellbeing and resilience to stress and trauma, and the ways that wellbeing and resilience can be promoted via various intervention platforms. In this episode, she shares some of these findings with Ben and Tim, including a range of practical methods of building resilience that anyone can adopt. 0:25 A very special introduction – some original poetry from Jackson, a participant in Rick Pedley-Smith’s Rite of Passage program. For more on Rick and the work he is doing to re-engage and support boys who are considered ‘at risk’, see our discussion with him exactly two seasons ago, way back in Season 2, Episode 18. 7:05 Justine’s background – and how she got to her current role as lead scientist of the Gatt Wellbeing and Resilience Group 10:10 Justine’s definition of wellbeing and resilience 12:00 How much – and what parts – of our resilience is hereditary? Plus an explanation of Justine’s COMPAS-W scale 17:24 The impacts of early life stress on our resilience (and the physical structure of our brains!) 23:00 What can we do in our own lives to increase our wellbeing and resilience? 30:30 Social media and resilience – how are our screens impacting our wellbeing (particularly amongst teens)? 34:45 The ‘goldilocks’ effect at play in terms of screen time 38:30 Where to next for Justine? (And, importantly, can twins actually read each others’ minds?!) 43:15 What does Justine do for her own resilience? 45:45 ….and how does she try to build resilience in her daughter? www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 External Links NeuRA (Neuroscience Research Australia), where you can find more about Justine’s work, and register your interest for their soon-to-be-released app Justine’s publications Music The Externals – available on Spotify Ben Frichot - available on Spotify

Our chat today is with world champion para-surfer Sam Bloom, and her husband Cam. Born on the Northern Beaches of Sydney, Sam had everything she had always dreamed of. She’d travelled extensively, fulfilled her childhood dream of becoming a nurse and was a happily married mother of three young boys. But without warning, the dream turned into a nightmare when on a 2013 family holiday in Thailand, Sam fell through a rotten balcony railing and crashed six metres onto the concrete below. Lucky to be alive, she’d suffered devastating injuries, including severe damage to her spinal cord that left her paralysed from the chest down. Broken and hopeless, Sam reached her outer limits of physical and mental suffering. But with courage, determination and a little help from an unlikely feathered friend, she made her way back from the edge, scarred but undefeated. 'How' is the subject of this podcast episode. 6:00 Sam and Cam’s background, and how they met… 11:30 Talking the importance of travel in the like of the Blooms 16:00 That fateful trip to Thailand 18:30 Moving hospital to hospital… to hospital 19:40 Sam’s recollection of the incident 21:20 ‘Memories are so subjective’ 25:00 When Sam realises the severity of the incident… 26:20 Cam is mopping up and trying to hold it together while Sam spends months in hospital 30:00 Sam arrives home… and its not how you think she would be 32:00 Enter penguin .. a fluffy magpie chick. Life changes 36:00 Cam and his accompanying photography. What he couldn’t photograph 38:20 How about the impact on the boys? 43:00 How the book started 52:00 Recruiting the actors for the movie version of the book 54:10 Doing time with their Hollywood counterparts… and shooting in their own home 59:15 Sam reconnects with her passion of surfing 1:02:00 SurfLakes Yeppoon … artificial surf facility in Queensland 1:05:00 Australian Championships- Surfing …and what’s next External Links https://sambloom.com.au https://www.facebook.com/sambloomaustralia https://www.instagram.com/samjbloom/ Contact Us www.unforgiving60.com Email us at debrief@unforgiving60.com Instagram, Twitter: @Unforgiving60 THE RESILIENCE RETREAT INFORMATION Be guests of the authors of The Resilience Shield between 27-30 October 2022 on Fitzroy Island off Cairns, North Queensland, Australia Info and bookings here: https://resilienceshield.com/retreat/ Music The Externals – available on Spotify Mitchell Martin- – available on Spotify