Double Date with Marlo Thomas & Phil Donahue

Modern dating can feel exhausting. On one hand, there’s the seemingly endless swiping that leads to dating app burnout; on the other, there’s what can feel like the insurmountable challenge of meeting someone in real life. But what if finding love is less about fate — and more about strategy? Dr. Laurie sits down with behavioral scientist and dating coach Tim Molnar, author of Date Smarter: A Strategic Guide to Navigating Modern Romance, to explore what the research really says about how to meet the right person, build genuine connection, and avoid common dating mistakes. Resources mentioned in this episode: Date Smarter: A Strategic Guide to Navigating Modern Romance “Receptivity to Sexual Invitations from Strangers of the Opposite Gender” How to Bounce Back from Life’s Curveballs (with Dr. Maya Shankar) “Computations of Uncertainty Mediate Acute Stress Responses in Humans” “Implementation Intentions and Goal Achievement: A Meta-Analysis of Effects and Processes” “Forbes Health Survey: 78% Of All Users Report Dating App Burnout” “Foot-in-the-Door Technique Using a Courtship Request” “Getting Beyond Small Talk: Study Finds People Enjoy Deep Conversations with Strangers” “Grammar Is Super Important to Online Dating Sites, So Try to Speak English Good” “ Swipe-based dating applications use and its association with mental health outcomes: a cross-sectional study” (00:02:17) Date Smarter: A Strategic Guide to Navigating Modern Romance See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’ve talked a lot on this show about health issues midlife women face. But what about the other people who often have a front-row seat to these changes, and can play a key supporting role? This week, a conversation about supporting a partner who’s going through menopause—with none other than Elizabeth’s own partner: Dr. Richard Shapiro (who also happens to be a pioneering breast cancer and melanoma researcher and surgeon). They talk about the ways they’ve navigated midlife changes in their relationship, common misconceptions about taking hormones, and impacts menopause can have on relationships, as well as give advice for how both partners and clinicians can better support women experiencing menopause. Links to resources mentioned in this episode: (00:01:38) Dr. Elizabeth Poynor on Rich Roll’s podcast Menopausal Hormone Therapy and the Risk of Breast Cancer in Women with a Pathogenic Variant in BRCA1 or BRCA2 The Menopause Society 8 facts about divorce in the United States Note: In this show, we use “women” as shorthand for people with XX chromosomes. We understand sex and gender are more complex, and acknowledge the experiences we describe reach beyond that word. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

According to the science, it really is better to give than receive. Donating a dollar; sharing a kind word or lending someone a hand changes lives, but can also hugely boost your happiness. So we're teaming up with other podcasts from Hidden Brain to Revisionist History to ask you to give to a charity helping some of the poorest people around. We're calling it #PodsFightPoverty. Go to givedirectly.org/happinesslab right now and give whatever you can. Even a small donation will make you feel good and have a much larger impact on the world than you thought possible. To help inspire you, this special episode examines the science of giving and shares stories of heartwarming and impactful acts of kindness. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For Breast Cancer Awareness Month, Dr. Susan Domchek joins the show to talk about the importance of knowing your genetic history, using genetic testing to understand cancer risk, and what you can do if you learn that you have BRCA gene mutation. Links to resources mentioned in this episode: Basser Center for BRCA National Society of Genetic Counselors National Comprehensive Cancer Network Note: In this show, we use “women” as shorthand for people with XX chromosomes. We understand sex and gender are more complex, and acknowledge the experiences we describe reach beyond that word. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Here’s a preview of a new Pushkin podcast, Decoding Women’s Health. On Decoding Women’s Health, Dr. Elizabeth Poynor makes the science of women’s health accessible—from hormones to metabolism to longevity—so you can thrive at any stage of life. A world-renowned gynecologic oncologist and advanced pelvic surgeon, Dr. Poynor speaks with leading physicians, researchers, and educators to share the latest science on women’s wellness, disease prevention, and what it really means to age on your own terms. Each episode explores a different aspect of how to improve your health during midlife—from heart disease and genetic risks to cognitive health and beyond. Because mid-life isn’t a crisis—it’s an opportunity.In this episode, Dr. Poynor is joined by neuropsychologist Dr. Caroline Gurvich to unpack what’s really happening in the brain during perimenopause and menopause. They explore why more than 60% of women experience cognitive shifts, how estrogen impacts memory and focus, and the roles hormone therapy, lifestyle choices, and even cognitive training can play in keeping your brain sharp. Find Decoding Women's Health wherever you get podcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Do you go on endless dates hoping to find the perfect partner only to be endlessly disappointed? Or have you stopped meeting people because you've decided that you're undateable? Maybe you need to start dating like a scientist. Behavioural scientist Logan Ury has studied the common mistakes we make when looking for love - and thinks science can shows us a better way. Logan is the director of relationship science at the dating app Hinge. She’s also the dating coach for the new Netflix showThe Later Daters and author of How to Not Die Alone. Check out Logan's website at loganury.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You might think etiquette is outdated. Who really needs a dinner with nice napkins and four different forks? Etiquette expert William Hanson disagrees. By observing good manners we show others we respect and care about them - deepening our bonds. William (author of Just Good Manners and host of the podcast Help I Sexted My Boss) explains the origins of many formal behaviours and how they can make us happier. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We all have our own ways of coping - especially when things get tough. So for the next few shows we're going to talking to people with interesting coping strategies. And we start with Elias Weiss Friedman, aka The Dogist. Throughout his life, Elias has found comfort in dogs. And when he got fired from his job, dogs came to the rescue again - they helped him forge a new career as a photographer and a social media star. Elias discusses his journey and what he thinks dogs can teach us about being our best selves. And for more stories, check out his new book This Dog Will Change Your Life. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For the International Day of Happiness, we're sharing a special episode from The Happiness Lab. It's a chance to talk about happiness and what we can all do to be happier. March 20th also sees the release of the World Happiness Report. A big finding of 2025's report is that more of us are dining alone—and that's bad news. The report's editor Jan-Emmanuel De Neve shares the stark figures showing that shared meals are in decline, while Dr. Anne Fischel of The Family Dinner Project gives tips on how to dine better with friends, families and colleagues. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nothing says romance like a perfect playlist—except, maybe, a special network-wide episode about love songs. In this Valentine’s Day special, Broken Record hosts Justin Richmond and Leah Rose make their cases: is R&B the undisputed sound of love? Are sad songs more romantic? Can country win the day? Plus, the legendary songwriter Babyface talks about how young love shaped his most enduring ballads, Malcolm Gladwell breaks down the perfect break up song, and Ben Naddaff-Hafrey writes a love song of his own. Whether you're mid-swoon or nursing a broken heart, this episode is our valentine to you. Listen to Broken Record’s interview with Babyface. Listen to a Revisionist History episode about sad songs. And hear more from Ben’s band, Rookin. Plus, our battle of the playlists continues… here’s Leah’s sad songs playlist. And Justin’s for love songs. Pick your fighter and… enjoy! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The holidays are supposed to be a time of joy. But all too often, the darker, colder days of winter, and even the stress of preparing for the holidays themselves, can lead people to feel something else: rushed, stressed, lonely, or even hopeless. How can you make sure this year is bright? Dr Laurie joins Dave DeSteno on his show How God Works: The Science Behind Spirituality to unpack the psychological secrets of celebrations from Christmas, to Hanukkah, to Yule, and more. They’ll also discuss how we can put that wisdom into practice, whatever our beliefs, to make this season a happier and healthier one for all. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s hard to stay hopeful these days. Stanford professor Jamil Zaki has been studying the incredible depth of human kindness for decades, but even he gives in to cynicism when he doubts our ability to be civil and cooperative. That’s a shame - because shedding cynicism and grasping hope will make you happier and healthier. Jamil and Dr Laurie Santos look at the scientific evidence showing that we should be more trusting of other people and optimistic about our facility to work together. Jamil's book Hope for Cynics: The Surprising Science of Human Goodness is out now. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Holding yourself to impossibly high standards is self-defeating and makes for a miserable life. Can Dr Laurie Santos find ways to tackle her constant perfectionism so she can perform better and have more fun? She hears from researcher Thomas Curran about a worrying growth in perfectionism in society, and asks "recovering perfectionist" Jordana Confino how to tackle the nagging voice in your head telling you to always push yourself and work harder. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Prepare to be schooled in the art of conversation by dynamic duo Casey Wilson and Jessica St. Clair. Dismissing the notion that small talk is a painful social obligation, these self-proclaimed small talk maestros share their gift of gab in this laugh-out-loud and instructive audiobook. With their help you might find yourself excitedly asking your barista about the weather…and maybe you’ll get a free coffee. Who knows! Enjoy Chapter 11: How to Use Small Talk in Love, and if you’re interested in hearing more small talk tips, get the complete audiobook at: Pushkin: https://www.pushkin.fm/audiobooks/the-art-of-small-talk Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/309by6YVsUZED5MhGlV0H8?si=TDPcSzeWQZKuggmkDRNh9g Audible: https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Art-of-Small-Talk-Audiobook/B0CPM98G3J Apple Books: https://books.apple.com/us/audiobook/the-art-of-small-talk-go-shallow-to-go-deep/id1737294114 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Happiness Lab’s Dr. Laurie Santos brings together other Pushkin hosts to mark the International Day of Happiness. Revisionist History’s Malcolm Gladwell talks about the benefits of the misery of running in a Canadian winter. Dr. Maya Shankar from A Slight Change of Plans talks about quieting her mental chatter. And Cautionary Tales host Tim Harford surprises everyone with the happiness lessons to be learned from a colonoscopy. Hear more of The Happiness Lab HERE. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Listen to this special episode from another podcast we think you'll love called Embodied from WUNC. When human romance isn't working out, can an AI chatbot successfully take its place? Host Anita Rao hears varied perspectives on that question. She meets a journalist who got dumped by her AI crush and talks with a woman whose AI companion turned her life around. Plus, psychologist Melissa McCool, the clinical product consultant for AI tech company Luka, takes Anita behind the scenes of making AI companions. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Fairy tales and Hollywood rom coms have taught us to expect perfection from a soul mate, but sex and relationships therapist Todd Baratz says we need to be more comfortable with the idea that a "good enough" partner will do. Todd once bought into this perfection myth - wanting a boyfriend to meet all his needs without even being told. These expectations helped end the relationship. Now Todd (author of How to Love Someone Without Losing Your Mind) says we need to accept that our loved ones will be just as flawed and human as we are. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Some people ask searching questions and then really listen to the replies. These so-called supercommunicators make great romantic partners, so can anyone learn to be more like them? Journalist Charles Duhigg (author of Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection) was unhappy with how he and his wife were talking, so he studied his mistakes and adopted the habits of supercommunicators. He explains to Dr Laurie Santos how we can all make small changes that will improve our dating and romantic lives. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

No matter how much you love your partner, your relationship will never be totally free from disagreement. And nor should it be, say researchers Dr John Gottman and Dr Julie Schwartz Gottman. We actually just need to learn to argue better. The Gottmans join Dr Laurie Santos to talk us through how to raise complaints with our partners and how to react when they complain about us. Further reading: Fight Right: How Successful Couples Turn Conflict into Connection by Dr John Gottman and Dr Julie Schwartz Gottman. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Science writer Florence Williams felt blindsided when her twenty-five-year marriage unexpectedly fell apart. Trained as a journalist, Florence set out on an expedition to understand the science of heartbreak and game her way back to health. Enjoy this special excerpt from Florence's audiobook, "Heartbreak: A Personal and Scientific Journey", and if you’re interested in hearing more of her story, download the complete audiobook at pushkin.fm/heartbreak. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.