PRODUCTEA with Leah, Growth & Senior Leadership

Summary The conversation with Mike Weir, former CRO of G2, focused on reducing churn and driving expansion revenue. At G2, they used a churn model with 14 highly correlated variables to identify at-risk customers and prioritize actions for the customer success team. We also discussed the importance of product and marketing in customer education and engagement and how to align sales, customer success, product, and marketing in a product-led growth (PLG) organization. The discussion also touches on the role of compensation plans in driving the right behaviors and the importance of measuring and rewarding actions that correlate to long-term revenue and whether founders should do sales and for how long. Takeaways A churn model with highly correlated variables can help identify at-risk customers and prioritize actions for the customer success team. Compensation plans should reward behaviors that correlate to long-term revenue, even if they don't directly generate revenue. Product teams play a vital role in supporting sales efforts and providing valuable data. Founders should stay involved in sales for as long as possible to refine their understanding of the market and product-market fit. Sound Bites "You got a customer that's kind of like half in the boat, half in the water." "Expansion is the best way to fight against churn." "If they're already trusting G2, then why not use that G2 third party validated content in that direct conversation when you get them engaging with your marketing materials or in a direct meeting with you." Chapters 00:00 Profile Completeness and Engagement 11:08 Using a Churn Model 30:41 Aligning Sales, Customer Success, Product, and Marketing 39:36 Measuring Handraisers and Sales Calls 48:15 The Role of Founders in Sales 57:24 Incentivizing Actions that Drive Long-Term Revenue My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar #productledgrowth Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Anthony Pierry, partner at FletchPMM, focuses on messaging for early-stage B2B SaaS startups, and he brought a lot of actionable knowledge on how to do it right to the ProducTea. Summary I talk with Anthony about how to focus and narrow down your target audience and how to communicate it through your value proposition. How do we cross the chasm between the early-stage value proposition and the bigger market we want to reach? How do we use qualitative feedback in these high-risk and low-data decisions to figure out whether we should focus on features vs. outcomes when we talk to our customers? Takeaways Founders should narrow down their target audience and focus on specific use cases to effectively communicate their value proposition. Copying the messaging of larger companies may not be effective for startups, as they have different levels of risk and value propositions. Startups have an advantage as flexible specialists, offering solutions that larger enterprises cannot provide. Qualitative feedback and testing are essential to ensure that the messaging resonates with customers. A balanced approach is needed in B2B marketing between both features and outcomes. Sound Bites "The hypothesis can't be, we serve all industries for every use case. That's just not going to cut it as an early stage company." "Be temporarily narrow. Just go for the next three to four months, but have your tracking in place, please. Narrow down for three months, see what happens." Chapters 06:16 Finding the Right Messaging and Positioning 12:20 Having an Iterative Process of Finding, Messaging and Positioning 28:21 Reducing Risk through Product-Led Growth (PLG) in Positioning Experiments 34:54 How to optimize your Positioning in detail, features vs outcomes Anthony’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonypierri/ My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar #productledgrowth Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Adam Robinson, CEO of Retention.com & RB2B, is the CEO who builds in public on LinkedIn and is crushing it by discovering the power of product-led growth as he is doing it. He’s very specific about what works and what doesn’t and how he got started. He explains the power of organic reach through LinkedIn and building a personal brand through social media, particularly LinkedIn, and how important it is to not be too rigid in your assumptions. Adam shares his experience with video content and its impact on building trust and affinity with his audience to sell and scale an impressive B2B product-led flywheel. We talk about the concept of freemium product-led growth (PLG), the value of free users, and why it’s worth it to keep them around, even if they never buy. Takeaways Sound Bites Chapters 02:16 The Impact of Video Content on Building Trust and Affinity 08:45 Understanding Customer Churn and Market Dynamics 23:38 The Value of Offering a Free Product to Build Brand Presence 24:07 Freemium PLG and the Actual Value of Free Users 25:37 What can and should you “automate” about personal connections? 33:00 The Importance of Retaining Free Users 35:26 The Future of AI and Bootstrapping, hyper-efficiency Adam's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/retentionadam/ Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Casey Hill is a Senior Growth Manager at ActiveCampaign, Institutional Consultant, and Founder. More importantly, he’s incredibly actionable and smart on LinkedIn around B2B Email channels, and that’s why I wanted to have him on the podcast. Summary We talk about how to approach Email, how to use it from the ground up to drive meaningful business and how to measure it. How to balance different channels, such as influencers, podcasts, and newsletters. What IS good content and should you repurpose it? What is the difference between a Short-term and long-term goal, when to drop money into Ads vs. the quality of the content? We talk about engagement metrics and validation points, how to encourage an open structure for content posting, tracking engagement metrics and pipeline opportunities, the long-term play and how to trust in a B2B content strategy, separating reporting for different content types, gathering information and filtering leads, and choosing the most valuable question to ask. Takeaways Chapters 04:22 The Importance of Email in Demand Generation 10:56 Creating Good Content for a Specific Audience 13:38 Repurposing Content and Optimizing Channels 16:29 Short-Term and Long-Term Goals for Growth 21:46 Setting Targets and Benchmarks for Growth 24:06 Importance of Quality and Amplification in Newsletters 26:27 Gating Content in Newsletters 29:10 Differentiating Friction Based on Buying Intent 30:38 The Five Degrees of Content 35:18 Engagement Metrics and Validation Points 39:33 Tracking Engagement Metrics and Pipeline Opportunities 40:28 Long-Term Play and Trust in B2B Content Strategy 41:26 Separating Reporting for Different Content Types Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Julie Zhuo, Co-Founder @ Sundial, Author of THE MAKING OF A MANAGER, ex-VP Design @ FB Summary Intuition and hiring is an uncomfortable topic. We should be rational, have reasons for why we choose to work with someone or not. When should we trust our gut feeling? When is it time to step back and say, no. I go with the hard facts? In the end it’s all about building an honest relationship as a leader with our peers and what kind of person you want to be. Afterall, we spend a huge time with our peers, even if work is not our main focus in life. We explore the journey of personal growth and learning, the challenges and strengths of introversion and extroversion, and the significance of choosing battles and seeking feedback. How can we understand ourselfes better and become the inspiring leaders that we wish we had in our life when we were younger? Takeaways willChapters 05:01 The Power of Clear Communication 07:13 Balancing Simplicity and Complexity in Writing 08:12 The Importance of Honesty in Relationships 14:25 The Wisdom of Intuition and Logic 23:00 Building Honest and Deep Relationships with your peers 26:17 Personal Growth and Learning 29:32 Navigating Introversion and Extroversion 32:59 Overcoming Fear and Embracing Authenticity 38:05 Inspiring Others and Building Meaningful Relationships Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Summary Jamie Gier, - CMO at DexCare and former Director of Product Marketing at Microsoft - and I talk about the importance of understanding the customer and the challenges of marketing in regulated industries. We also touch on the process of learning marketing, the concept of account-based marketing in B2B, and how to connect it to revenue through ROI cases for our customers. The conversation concludes with a focus on relevant outreach and communication concepts with the aid of AI. Takeaways Good Marketing plays a strategic role in product development, informing product strategy and ensuring a unified voice in the marketplace. Marketing in regulated industries, such as healthcare, requires balancing compliance with innovation and user experience. Learning marketing involves understanding the customer, creating value, and staying up to date with industry trends. Account-based marketing in B2B involves aligning with sales, understanding ideal client profiles, and deploying the right sales and marketing motions. Effective processes and personalization are crucial in marketing and sales. Making the ROI case for customers from Marketing is essential. Chapters 06:42 The Importance of Personal Board of Directors 12:18 Measuring Marketing Impact 16:29 The Role of Marketing in Product Development 22:02 The Challenges of Marketing in Regulated Industries 38:14 Learning Marketing and Creating Value 45:38 Account-Based Marketing in B2B 47:30 Effective Processes and Personalization that doesn't feel artificial 49:17 Making the ROI Case through Account-based Marketing My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar #productledgrowth Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Summary Peter Walker, Head of Data Insights at Carta discusses with me various aspects of startup funding and investment. We explore the value of small angel investments, the obscurity of startup funding letters, the selectivity of startup advisors, and the potential of angel investments as marketing assets. We also touch on the excitement for the future of startups, the impact of accelerators and venture studios, and the importance of distribution and growth and whether a downround really is such a bad thing. Takeaways Chapters 13:35 The Shift Towards Non-VC Growth Paths 25:24 The Impact of Liquidation Preferences and Equity Education 43:52 The Value of Small Angel Investments 44:50 The Obscurity of Startup Funding Letters 46:14 Angel Investments as Marketing Assets 48:02 Excitement for the Future of Startups, Accelerators and Venture Studios Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Why is ruthless focus the most important skill in B2B, and why is it so hard to get right? As the CEO of a banking service that focuses on the impact of cashflow mismanagement on small businesses, he knows what it means when people only focus on what’s fun to them in a business and the price they pay for that. We talked about the decision to seek VC funding and how he built resilience and dealt with negative emotions in tough times. What it means to him to deliver more value than just being a banking app by building out new channels like a podcast. Takeaways Timestamps 03:18 The Problem of Cashflow Illiteracy in Small Businesses 07:58 The Habit of Writing Down Priorities and ruthless prioritization 15:03 Mismanagement of unfun tasks in Small Businesses 19:37 The Challenges of Financial Management in Early Stages 23:08 The Decision to Seek VC Funding 32:34 The Importance of Effort and Determination 38:01 The Problem of Comparing Self to Others 42:09 Balancing Stressful Situations 46:27 Managing Negative Emotions 48:58 Starting a Podcast and delivering extended value to customers 56:36 Quality over Quantity in Marketing Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Jeff Gothelf, one of the most critical voices around OKRs and being outcome-driven, sat down with me for an hour-long amazing conversation: We touch on why using OKRS is useless if you can’t admit when you are wrong and be open to feedback from your teams. How do you set outcome-driven goals for exploratory research and the role of humility in organizational success? Why shipping something does not mean you’re adding value. Finally, we discuss common failure points in organizations and the future of impactful startups. Takeaways Timestamps 00:00 The Power of Humility and Accountability 13:06 The Importance of Putting the Customer First 19:08 Avoiding the Overuse of AI 25:46 Setting Outcome-Driven Goals for Exploratory Research 32:31 The Role of Humility in Organizational Success 43:39 Common Failure Points in Organizations 45:24 The Future of Impactful Startups Shownotes Jeff Gothelf: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gothelf/ Jeff’s Website: https://jeffgothelf.com/ Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Summary Melissa Kwan, CEO of eWebinar and serial bootstrapper, discusses the challenges and benefits of bootstrapping a business versus seeking venture capital funding. She is the poster child for urging founders to focus on real customer feedback and paying customers without loading up on VC problems. We discuss the importance of understanding the customer, personal goals and ambitions, the challenges of building and scaling a product, defining success and financial goals, the desire for financial independence, determining the financial number to sleep well, and the value of personal branding and trust. Takeaways Timestamps 00:00 The Lifestyle Choice of Bootstrapping vs. VC Funding 05:17 The Trajectory of eWebinar's Growth 09:31 The Challenges of VC Funding and the Importance of Profitability 13:51 The Difference Between Media Validation and Market Validation 19:35 The Rise of Vertical SaaS and Lifestyle Businesses 25:46 The Importance of Analyzing Past Behavior to Predict Future Behavior 32:00 The Problem with Demo Calls and the Shift Towards Self-Serve 37:06 Determining Pricing and the Value of Respecting Customer's Time 45:27 Understanding the Importance of Knowing the Customer 46:25 The Challenges of Building and Scaling a Product 47:24 Defining Success and Financial Goals 48:19 The Desire for Financial Independence 50:38 Determining the Financial Number to Sleep Well 55:41 The Value of Personal Branding and Trust Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Chris Tottman and Richard Blundell joined me for a fantastic conversation about how they think from their own operators’ perspective when it comes to investing in successful businesses and their people. Why you should not talk to investors who never went through the personal pain of failing and why it most of the time comes down to the basics of running a successful business: Timestamps: 11:00 The origin story of Notion VC, a founder/operator-led fund. An aggregator of fuckups and occasional successes 17:10 Why do we keep making the same mistakes in business? 27:00 Why anyone invests in a business. Metrics to evaluate the present, personality to see the future 33:30 Why should anyone listen to your pitch? When chaos is not avoidable with success 45:20 Are you failing because your market is too big or too small? Dangers of going too broad with your ICPs 53:50 Markets are not just what people want but where they communicate and recommend Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

A Journey I’m in the middle of as well: How to transition from senior leadership to taking care of yourself to the moment where you enter again. Casey Winters, ex-CPO Eventbrite, walks through the entire journey and how he thinks about our current markets; our technology is drastically changing while the new distribution channels have not developed yet. Why he is waiting before making high-conviction bets for his career in 2023 Timestamps: 08:10 Why Casey is stressed out and scared of misalignment 13:40 When the company heads in a direction where you don’t see your strengths as a senior leader, but it’s your job to see them through 20:12 This company strategy looks like one I’m not part of. How open should I be with my CEO? 28:00 Burning bridges on your way out by overthinking about negotiation leverage 31:15 Shifting your day to suddenly taking care of your OKRs: physical health and fitness 38:15 What deserves the best hours of your day? 42:00 How to plan the inevitable return to work: Waiting for the right moment, how to think like an investor about your career. 48:10 You don’t have to “understand” everything. But you’ll know when you know enough: technology is changing now, and distribution will change later. 53:40 Paid advertising and, with it, SEO getting pressure because of the current technology shift. Do consumer platforms make money from advertising or subscriptions in the future? It will be WILD. 62:20 Short tenures: people want to understand the decisions you made in your career, not just how long they were. My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar #productledgrowth Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

John Cutler is the best systems thinker I know. Whenever we talk, there’s a beautiful meta-analysis around systems happening. Why do we work the way we do? Why can we not figure out how to run businesses efficiently if we do it so often? Timestamps: 6:50 How people throw words like “efficiency” and “productivity” around and do not understand them 13:25 Product operations is thinking about what can remain and what has to go in the future. 19:50 Growing pains vs. normal pains. Why do young, smart people constantly get into really bad situations with their businesses? 25:05 Experts will always tell you that things are simple. Why tips on LinkedIn don’t work but are still popular. 30:15 How to be consistent. 38:00 The unbeautiful side of establishing habits. Individual vs. team habits 50:20 Leadership “porn”, why you should not search for broken components in organizations. Going broad first before specific. John’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnpcutler/ Johns Blog: https://cutlefish.substack.com/ Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Jason Fried, Co-founder and CEO of 37signals (Basecamp with a valuation of 100 billion, no really ;D), is one of the most positive, successful, forward-looking people that I got to know. He doesn’t care about retros and dwelling on the past and constantly pulls forward without looking too much at what others might think. This amazing episode ended up being a look into the mind of a successful contrarian who appreciates the beauty of simplicity in business. * Don’t overcomplicate decisions in business * Being confidently wrong about reality is easy when there is no reality to check it against * We’re doing more and more of what we don’t necessarily need Timestamps: 06:00 Having a public opinion on things that are not mainstream even if it’s uncomfortable. 09:00 Figuring out yourself, and who you really are is never done. 12:00 Don’t overcomplicate it, there are fewer wrong or right decisions than you think. Decide and run with it. 17:45 Double down on whatever works, don’t do post-mortems, retros… 20:55 Is developing faster and faster really what we need? 28:15 Culture and bad goal setting 36:33 Most decisions are based on intuition 46:25 Customers are always trying to make progress and that won’t change 49:30 VC money vs. Bootstrapping Jason Fried’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-fried/ Jasons Blog: https://world.hey.com/jason 37Signals.com: https://37signals.com/ My Blog / Newsletter: www.leahtharin.com Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/LeahThar #productledgrowth Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Adam Fishman and I elaborate on how we look at the inevitable yearly planning exercises from an operative and leadership perspective. How to do a rolling planning instead of doing the depressing exercise of wasting everyone’s time for a month at the end of each year: Timestamps: 04:20 Leah’s take: The operator’s perspective of yearly planning, fuzzy road mapping 07:30 Adam’s take: Conceptual thinking about planning, especially in the absence of a concrete strategy 13:20 Yearly planning and failures that are likely to happen 19:25 Resource planning and not taking care of “people” 23:15 Critical mistakes in planning 28:30 Spend some time to understand “what are your direct manager’s goals”, and overcommunicate as a manger 33:15 Calendar structure of annual planning when you own parts or the entire process 39:10 What do you do if you don’t agree with the company’s strategy? 42:50 30-60-90 day plan on how to get away from a company Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Andrew Davies, CMO at Paddle, on the latest learnings on monetization and pricing. A topic that is still underserved because almost no one has good, conclusive data about it. Paddle does, and Andrew is sharing a lot of actionable advice on: - Willingness to pay - Changing monetization often - How to not incentivize anyone the wrong way One of my favorite episodes to date! Timestamps: 06:20 Insights from the latest pricing report, analyzing outliers that “make it” 09:00 Having access to one of the biggest data stacks about monetization and how Paddle structured itself as a PLG business step-by-step 12:45 How to figure out how much you should charge for your product? 19:45 How to figure out “willingness to pay”. Cuddling with Chaos 24:00 Between Acquisition, Retention, and Monetization… Few companies are getting pricing right. Those that change it often have an 82% better ARPU 30:40 How do you get sales on board to play along to be okay with changing monetization 36:00 “We make sure there is no incentive for anyone in the company to get a customer on the phone over self-serving, including sales” 40:55 Getting payment methods, currency, and regional acceptance right. 44:30 We are moving away from the “VC funded or dead” dream. 50:15 What does it feel like to be really “successful” and not to spiral “getting there” 54:00 Having no clue what you are doing is an opportunity, not a weakness to cover 58:45 Trends: Customers want everything faster and cheaper. Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

This episode gave me a lot of peace of mind. Intercom is dealing with the exact same problems that we all have when building around and with AI. Estimations are impossible and things that are feeling impossible are possible the day after. Brian sat together with me to talk about it all including Intercom’s coming-of-age story and how they look at customer service through this new distorting lense of AI and Machine learning that is rocking our boat. It’s a great learning piece on anything product and leadership. Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership. Timestamps: 06:30 What makes Intercom so special, and why is good customer service so difficult? 11:50 Tieing business and technology together, while AI is making quantum leaps from unuseable to “this is really good” 18:19 We are all working in a playground of opportunities that is very hard to get under predictable control 25:30 I have no idea how long this entire project might take. Days or months. No idea 31:00 Unpredictability of your output in product, you only know when you have it 36:00 Outcome-driven goals when outcomes are impossible to define? 44:00 How to build an innovative product inside a large organization by creating an artificial micro-market 52:30 We still don’t know exactly what AI displaces and it won’t. Support vs. Replacement and the resulting uncertainty. Brians’ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-d-2450192/ Brians' Twitter: https://twitter.com/brian_donohue Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership. Mike used to be my manager and quickly became one of my most important mentors through the years. In this very personal episode with a lot of inside stories, we talk about it all. From experiences at Smallpdf where rapid scaling pains set in and how we experienced them from the perspective of the CPO - him, and me - the core product. Also: the concept of first principles thinking: Nokia’s prescient but uncapitalized predictions of smartphones. How to localize products and explore personal growth strategies, the importance of connecting wisdom, managing self-expectations, and how to move on from having chips on your shoulder. Timestamps: 06:30 Reinventing yourself and companies when you hit a specific size 10:30 Our journey at Smallpdf, everything burns and scales at the same time 15:55 First principles thinking is hard to learn but necessary so you can create your own frameworks. 22:14 Nokia predicted the iPhone and Android before they happened. And it didn’t help them. 26:50 Why Product-led Growth is not the same problem in B2B as it is in B2C 29:40 Aligning Value capture with the value you create. Pricing at Typeform 32:15 Lokalise and getting shaken up by the current AI technology disruption when localizing your product in different markets 42:20 How to learn and grow personally while thinking “I don’t belong here 49:43 Having the ability to connect wisdom instead of learning everything yourself 57:53 We get angry at things because we don’t match our own expectations 62:25 Having a chip on your shoulder… and moving on from it. 67:45 Waiting too long to reward yourself for specific achievements. Connect! Mike’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pilawski/ Leah’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahtharin/ Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership. Carilu’s wheelhouse starts where mine usually begins to end. She’s an accomplished advisor to big-scale hypergrowth companies and has a way with words. How do we think of problems at different stages? How do we set ourselves up so we have a chance of experiencing different stages if nobody hires us for them? Why is storytelling so important regardless of the function you work in? Timestamps: 08:20 Talking yourself into things you’re not qualified for 11:35 How everyone is cooking with water, while pattern recognition is what experience brings 15:25 Changing sizes of business and how they affect your role and understanding of others 20:24 Common signs that a company’s methods change from being scrappy to process-oriented 27:30 The process of advising at scale 38:57 Learning at Scale by joining a scaling company on purpose 41:05 Founders always start with Marketing and storytellers 44:40 Why and how to build relationships in companies 48:05 Insecurities as a senior leader - using them as fuel instead of obstacles Connect! Carliu’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hypergrowth-advisor/ Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube

Season 3 of the ProducTea: We spill the tea on how to Go to Market through Product-led Sales and Product-led Growth in B2B and the realities of senior leadership. I followed David’s succinct learnings as a Gartner Analyst around PLG for quite some time and you’ll get to know why. He has a way with words. Talking about PLG in a B2B context usually lacks nuance and tactical tips. Not with David, we touched on so many different topics from interactive demos to the most common misconceptions when thinking about PLG and ultimately how to marry it to your sales department. How you can think about ungating your product without giving everything away for free? Timestamps: 05:05 Being demanding in business while having a calm outside 07:05 When a company loses its sense of urgency 11:45 Product-led Sales: Many companies realize “We need sales.” or “We need PLG”, and one group has it much harder than the other 17:15 Product-led growth is not a one-size-fits-all thing. 19:25 Why getting attention in a commoditized market with sales-led growth is starting with a disadvantage 20:35 The most common misconceptions around PLG for Sales-led businesses 24:20 Pricing and packaging have to change if you go to a land and expand motion like product-led growth 27:35 Should I put my pricing up or not? Yes. And much more than that. Ungating for B2B 32:40 Interactive demos done right: Embedding an abstraction of your product 36:15 Why enterprise accounts don’t care about time but usage and why you cannot get this wrong in B2B 39:05 “Why does my sales cycle take so long, how do I move them faster?” 42:05 Tearing down Silos in data and customer understanding Leah on Linkedin / Twitter / Youtube