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Beyond the X's & O's Podcast

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The Beyond the X’s & O’s Podcast is hosted by Dr. Cassidy Preston, a Mental Performance Coach & founder of CEP Mindset, & Chris De Piero, a High-Performance Coach that has spent the past 30+ years in the game of hockey within the NHL, Hockey Canada, OHL, and European pro hockey. Cassidy is one of Chris’ former players where they won OPJHL Championship together in 2006. This podcast was born from their shared passion for helping coaches and leaders to go Beyond the X’s & O’s and develop the ‘human’ skills of leadership. Outside of the podcast they work together at CEP Mindset where they coach elite athletes, coaches, teams, and high-performing executives to achieve Consistent Elite Performance.

Location:

United States

Description:

The Beyond the X’s & O’s Podcast is hosted by Dr. Cassidy Preston, a Mental Performance Coach & founder of CEP Mindset, & Chris De Piero, a High-Performance Coach that has spent the past 30+ years in the game of hockey within the NHL, Hockey Canada, OHL, and European pro hockey. Cassidy is one of Chris’ former players where they won OPJHL Championship together in 2006. This podcast was born from their shared passion for helping coaches and leaders to go Beyond the X’s & O’s and develop the ‘human’ skills of leadership. Outside of the podcast they work together at CEP Mindset where they coach elite athletes, coaches, teams, and high-performing executives to achieve Consistent Elite Performance.

Language:

English


Episodes
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Change Your Mindset with Interrogative Self-Talk ft. Ryan Lavarnway

11/29/2023
In this episode, they are joined by Ryan Lavarnway, a former MLB player with an incredible career including winning a World Series with the Boston Red Sox and representing Team Israel at the 2020 Olympics. Ryan shares his incredible journey getting to the big leagues - notably, where he was sent up and down from the big leagues 26 times. Ryan’s mindset was shaped by the use of interrogative self-talk. Specifically he eloquently explains how four questions were the key to his success: Why not me? Why not more? Why not us? Why not now? This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration and insights into the mental game of a professional athlete. Ryan Lavarnway's engaging story and the valuable lessons shared make this episode a powerful exploration of mindset in sports. For more information about Ryan & his Keynote Speech checkout his website at: https://ryanlavarnway.com/ Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe to stay updated on future episodes. Join the conversation as we continue to go "Beyond the X's and O's."

Duration:00:28:27

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An Insider’s Perspective: GTHL Executive Director & Former Referee Scott Oakman

11/19/2023
Welcome to another episode of the "Beyond the X's and O's" podcast, your go-to destination for discussions on mindset and leadership within the world of sports. In this episode, hosts Dr. Cassidy Preston and Chris DiPiero take a unique turn as they welcome Scott Oakman, a seasoned referee with almost a thousand games under his belt and the Executive Director of the Greater Toronto Hockey League (GTHL), the world's largest minor hockey league. Here's a brief overview of what to expect in this insightful conversation: Journey of a Referee: Scott shares his experiences as a referee, delving into the challenges and mental fortitude required to officiate in the high-stakes world of hockey. The hosts discuss the evolution of officiating and the crucial role referees play in the game. Behind the Scenes of the GTHL: Gain an exclusive look into the operations of the Greater Toronto Hockey League as Scott discusses his role as the Executive Director. Understand the initiatives and changes being implemented to enhance the hockey experience for players, parents, and coaches. Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion: Scott provides insights into the GTHL's commitment to equity, diversity, and inclusion, emphasizing the importance of creating a positive and welcoming environment for everyone involved in the sport. Safety Measures and Player Wellbeing: Explore the safety measures and protocols implemented by the GTHL under Scott's leadership to prioritize the wellbeing of young players. This episode offers a fresh perspective on the game of hockey, going beyond the player and coach dynamic to explore the critical role of referees and the intricacies of managing a major hockey league. Scott Oakman's wealth of experience and leadership insights make this episode a must-listen for anyone passionate about the sport. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe to stay updated on future episodes. Reach out with your questions and thoughts, and join the conversation as we continue to explore the world "Beyond the X's and O's."

Duration:00:49:51

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Elevating Coaching: A Conversation with Luca Gianinazzi

11/9/2023
Welcome to the "Beyond the X's and O's" podcast, where we delve into the world of sports, focusing on mindset and leadership. In this episode, your hosts, Dr. Cassidy Preston and Chris DiPiero, welcome a special guest, Luca Gianinazzi, a 30-year-old head coach of a professional hockey team in Switzerland, Hockey Club Lugano, which competes in the Swiss National League. Luca's unique perspective on coaching and leadership is a fascinating look into the new era of coaching in the world of sports. He provides valuable insights and shares his experiences, emphasizing the importance of self-reflection, communication, and developing players not only as athletes but as individuals. Here's a glimpse of what you can expect in this insightful episode: Embracing Self-Reflection: Luca discusses his journey into coaching, embracing the idea of self-reflection, and why it's crucial to continually grow as a coach. The Challenge of Leadership at a Young Age: As a 30-year-old head coach, Luca opens up about the challenges he faces, especially addressing concerns about his age with his players and superiors. The Power of Communication: Luca highlights the significance of communication in coaching, focusing on building strong relationships with players and demonstrating genuine care and interest in their development, both on and off the ice. Balancing the Short-Term and Long-Term Goals: Luca's approach to coaching is rooted in developing a strong team culture and program for long-term success, even while aiming to win in the short term. Delegating and Managing Energy: Luca shares his insights into learning to delegate responsibilities as a coach and manage his energy effectively. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the evolving world of coaching and leadership in sports. Luca's wisdom and experience provide valuable lessons for coaches, athletes, and sports enthusiasts alike. Enjoy this deep dive into the mindset of a remarkable young coach as they go "Beyond the X's and O's." Remember to subscribe, like, comment, and share your thoughts. If you have any questions or feedback, don't hesitate to reach out.

Duration:00:53:39

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The Outdoor Rink Mentality with David Gucciardi

10/31/2023
In this episode, Cassidy interviews David Gucciardi, a prospect of the Washington Capitals. He discusses the work he has done on his mindset through his junior and college hockey career thus far. Here's a glimpse of what you can expect in this engaging episode: Developing His Emotional Regulation: David discusses his transition from a player where his emotions would get the best of him to someone who has learned to stay even keel. Staying Connected to the Love of the Game: David shares the story of how he developed his powerful alter ego, "ODR Gucc" to stay connected to his love for hockey during high-pressure moments. Balancing Offensive Creativity and Defensive Reliability: Learn how David balances his game, focusing on aggressive defensive play while maintaining his creative offensive style. Capability Over Performance: Discover the importance of focusing on capability over short-term performance as a way to maintain confidence and positive momentum. Encouraging Early Mindset Work: David encourages young athletes to start working on their mental game early and embrace it as a unique way to gain an advantage in their sport. David Gucciardi's insights offer valuable lessons for athletes, coaches, and parents who are keen on understanding and improving the mental aspect of sports. Remember to subscribe, like, and leave comments. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out. Enjoy this episode as we continue to explore the world "Beyond the X’s and O’s."

Duration:00:15:54

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Working with 23 Different Million Dollar Companies aka Coaching in the NHL with Steve Spott

10/11/2023
In this episode, we have a captivating conversation with Steve Spott, a long-time friend of Chris DiPiero and a respected figure in the hockey world. Steve's extensive hockey journey, from playing junior hockey to coaching in the NHL, provides a rich backdrop for our discussion. Here's a sneak peek of what you can expect: Authentic Communication: Learn the importance of clear and authentic communication in coaching, as well as the crucial role it plays in player development. Embracing Mindset Training: Discover how athletes are increasingly recognizing the value of mindset training and mental performance coaching in enhancing their performance. The Power of Competitiveness: Dive into Steve's insights on the one common trait he's seen in successful players across different levels of hockey - competitiveness. Balancing Power and Responsibility: Gain insights into the complexities of an NHL coach's role, managing multi-million-dollar companies with 23 players on the roster. Steve Spott's wisdom, gleaned from his vast experience in the hockey world, is both enlightening and thought-provoking. Whether you're a coach, player, or parent, this episode offers valuable insights that can elevate your understanding of the game. Don't forget to subscribe, like, and leave comments, and feel free to reach out with any questions. Enjoy this episode as we continue our journey Beyond the X's and O's.

Duration:00:47:52

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Navigating the Challenges of Modern Hockey with Mike McKenzie

10/5/2023
In this episode, we sit down with Mike McKenzie, General Manager of the Kitchener Rangers and a former St. Michael's Buzzers - where he was part of the championship team with Cassidy and Chris. Mike shares his wealth of experience, highlighting both the timeless principles and modern challenges of hockey. Here’s what you can look forward to: The Essentials Remain: Discover how some fundamentals of the game, like going to the net, battling, and contact, have remained unchanged despite the evolution of hockey. Social Media Pitfalls: Dive into a crucial discussion about the impact of social media on today’s players, including issues of comparison, entitlement, and the need for balance. Player Accountability: Explore the idea of personal accountability and respect for the game and how it can lead to a deeper enjoyment of hockey. Consistency and Effort: Unpack the concept of players “figuring it out” and how consistency and effort are crucial factors in a player’s success. Mike McKenzie’s insights into the modern hockey landscape are both eye-opening and thought-provoking. Join us in this conversation and gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and opportunities within the sport. Remember to like, share, and leave comments, and don’t hesitate to reach out with any questions you may have. Enjoy this episode as we continue our journey Beyond the X’s and O’s.

Duration:00:56:30

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Thinking Differently about Embarrassment, Adversity, & Mindset with Louie Caporusso

9/28/2023
In this episode, we have an engaging conversation with Louie Caporusso, a former St. Michael's Buzzers - where he was part of the championship team with Cassidy and Chris. Louie shares his journey as a professional hockey player and provides valuable insights for athletes, coaches, and parents. Here's what you can expect: Embracing Embarrassment: Louie talks about how healthy it can be to experience embarrassment and how it can lead to personal growth. The Beginner's Mindset: Discover the importance of adopting a mindset that recognizes you're never a finished product and that there's always room for growth. Resilience and Passion: Louie's enduring love for the game and his determination to salvage his career are truly inspirational. Practical Strategies: Learn how journaling and embracing the downs can help athletes deal with challenges and setbacks effectively. Louie's contagious passion for hockey and life shines through in this conversation. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share this episode with other coaches, athletes, and parents. And if you're interested in mental performance coaching visit cepmindset.com. Sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode as we continue our journey Beyond the X's and O's.

Duration:00:53:38

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Stop Looking at the Clock and Get Immersed in the Process with Trevor Large

9/12/2023
In this episode, we're joined by a returning guest, Trevor Large, the head coach of Canisius College's hockey team. Trevor shares how he led his team to their first-ever NCAA tournament this past season. Here's a glimpse of what's in store: A Different Coaching Approach: Discover how Trevor has embraced a unique coaching philosophy focused on building culture, accountability, and trust. Mindset First: Learn about Trevor's radical shift away from obsessing over results and how he immerses himself in the coaching process instead. Strategic vs. Emotional Leadership: Explore the importance of maintaining a strategic approach, even during emotional moments, and how it impacts coaching decisions. Eliminating Rookie Hazing: Trevor discusses the need to eliminate rookie hazing in sports and build a more inclusive environment. The Power of Team Trust: Insights into how trust is cultivated within a team and its impact on performance. Tune in for an enlightening conversation that provides valuable takeaways for coaches, athletes, and anyone interested in sports leadership. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and reach out with any questions. If you're looking for mental performance coaching for your team, coaches, or athletes, visit cepmindset.com. Enjoy this episode as we continue our journey beyond the X's and O's.

Duration:00:57:55

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The Champion Teammate by Jerry Lynch and John O’Sullivan

8/31/2023
Jerry Lynch and John O’Sullivan are leadership, performance, and team culture specialists. Jerry and John co-host the Way of Champions Podcast, as well as the Way of Champions Transformational Leadership Conference, and both are national advisory board members of the Positive Coaching Alliance. Together they brought their extensive experiences together to write the book: the Champion Teammate. In today's episode, John joined us back on the podcast to dive into the book. Here's what you’ll discover: A Fresh Perspective: Switching your mindset from “what can I get?” to “what can I give?”. Defining a Champion Teammate: Discover what it takes to be a great teammate, both on and off the field, and why it's crucial for success. Setting Standards: Learn how to establish the right standards, values, and behaviors within your team to create a winning culture. Practical Takeaways: John shares numerous actionable advice from the book that coaches & athletes can implement immediately to improve team dynamics and performance. This episode is a must-listen for coaches, athletes, and anyone interested in creating a winning team culture. Be sure to grab a copy of their book for even more in-depth wisdom - click here to get it on Amazon. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and reach out with any questions. For those interested in 1-on1 Mental Performance Coaching for teams, coaches, and athletes, visit www.cepmindset.com - Tune in and join us as we go "Beyond the Xs and Os."

Duration:01:06:22

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Standing with Your Fear featuring Domenic DiVincentiis

8/21/2023
Domenic DiVincentiis is a prospect for the Winnipeg Jets, who currently plays for the North Bay Battalion. Over the past four years, he’s worked with Dr. Cassidy Preston to help give him a mental edge on and off the ice as he continues to climb the ranks. In this interview Dom discusses how he has personalized his mental game to work for him. He shares insights into his mindset and the lessons he learned that helped him earn the OHL goalie of the year and sign his entry level deal with the Winnipeg Jets. Here’s what you’ll discover: Whether you’re an athlete, coach, or parent, Dom’s insights on mental performance are a game-changer. Don’t miss this episode as we go “Beyond the Xs and Os” to unlock success in sports and life. Subscribe and visit cepmindset.com for more on mental performance coaching.

Duration:00:36:23

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Leadership Lessons from Ted Lasso with Dan Arel

5/19/2023
The hit Apple TV series Ted Lasso is a masterclass in going Beyond the X’s and O’s. So we invited Dan Arel to join us and breakdown our biggest lessons and takeaways from the show. Dan Arel has been coaching youth hockey for nearly a decade and is the Director of Coach & Player Development for the San Diego Oilers. In 2020, he was named The San Diego Gulls Foundation Coach of the Year. Arel is also a regular contributing writer to The Coaches Site, focusing on player development through small area games and good habits. Dan was a great guest for this episode given our mutual affinity for Ted Lasso as well as his passion to develop players, teams, and leaders. From our conversation with Dan, it was evident he embodies many Ted Lasso leadership qualities - such as humility and vulnerability. Additional topics we dive into included: Mental health in sport and coaching Creating and leaning on a support team Working with the mindset of parents in youth sport Finding your authentic coaching/leadership style as a key to success Make sure you check out Ted Lasso on Apple TV and enjoy the episode as we continue to go Beyond the X’ and O’s.

Duration:01:21:12

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The Leaders of Sport are Failing

4/14/2023
This assertion may be a little over the top - but Chris De Piero and I (Dr. Cassidy Preston) strongly feel it is warranted to say that the leaders of sport are failing. This episode of BXO’s is a follow-up to the ‘Is Hockey Broken?’ episode we recently did - which doesn’t just apply to hockey. Although the episode received a lot of support, it was also criticized by many - which drove us to double down and create this episode. People can and will disagree with us - we welcome those that oppose to share their take, but from our perspective it is clear that much of sport is not in a good place: As a former elite athlete - I experienced emotional and physical abuse. As a researcher - I examined the problems in sport through the critical lens of academia. As a mental performance coach - I see the problems firsthand day-in and day-out. The purpose of the last episode was to call on leaders to make more bold decisions and take action to improve hockey and all sports. We are not saying that all leaders are failing, but we are saying that too many leaders are not doing enough to help make the sports we love a better experience for all - and especially for our youth. I’m sure this won’t be too popular of an opinion with those in leadership positions. Heck, I’m sure there will be some ‘powerful’ leaders and people at Hockey Canada that won’t like what we have to say. But I’m not doing this to make friends or please people. I’m doing this because I think it is what needs to be done.

Duration:00:41:26

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How to Overcome Performance Anxiety

3/29/2023
Performance anxiety is one of the leading reasons athletes struggle to perform when it matters most. In this podcast, we want to show you how to break through the limiting beliefs and cultural norms that perpetuate performance anxiety. This is a follow up to the How to Perform Under Pressure video recently posted. Here are the main concepts we unpacked to help athletes overcome performance anxiety: Building Up the Context Athletes, coaches, parents, and fans alike often attach too much meaning to the event or game. Athletes then build up the context in their mind and get too hyped up for a particular opponent, ‘pressure’ situation, or a ‘must win’ game. As a result, the context becomes overwhelming and the athlete mentally falls apart, they panic or hesitate on the field of play, and choke under the pressure. In last year’s Stanley Cup final, Tampa Bay Lightning all-world defenceman Victor Hedman was asked about how he and his teammates are able to maintain a high level of play in their third straight Cup finals. His response was “easy, we never let the moment be bigger than any one particular play”. This was a brilliant response. The ability to detach from the context and be dialed into the task at hand is the key to being totally present. This mindset allows them to have trust and faith, not only in their own abilities, but those of their teammates as well. It’s no surprise they have been the Gold Standard for culture and excellence for the better part of a decade.

Duration:00:33:05

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Is Hockey Broken?

3/10/2023
It is a hard yes - hockey is broken. This has a lot more to do with the structure than the people. Most people in hockey have good intentions but it is the structure of the game that does not foster an optimal environment. As a result, destructive behaviours and practices are normalized and repeated at all levels. Can it be fixed? It is less about ‘fixing it’ per-say but rather about getting better. But in order to improve something there needs to be clear measures of what to improve upon. We don’t pretend to have all the answers but our opinions on measures that should be prioritized, tracked, and regularly shared by governing bodies include: Retention Rates - the number of kids coming back year over year Net Promoter Score - comes from the business world and is about how satisfied a client (athlete) is with their service, product or experience Abuse Claims - clearly there is a need to decrease all forms of abuse Does this mean we shouldn’t care about Gold Medals? No - those are great and in fact, improving the structure and experience for players will lead to better development and even higher probabilities of Gold Medals. The concern is not that Hockey Canada prides itself on winning Gold Medals, but that it does not seem to pride itself enough about increasing retention rates, creating positive experiences, and ensuring a safe sporting environment. We don’t know everything going on with every league and behind all the closed doors, but from our perspective we stand by this proclamation that Hockey Is Broken. The question to ask is what are we going to do about it? The answer is better leadership at all levels is needed to fix this structure. The bottom-up approach calls on coaches and organizations to go Beyond the X’s and O’s, do things differently, and raise their standards for the betterment of the athletes. There are coaches and organizations stepping up and we are hopeful that this number continues to grow. However, at what point will we see a top-down approach where Hockey Canada, provincial governing bodies, and the leagues make some bold and necessary decisions to change the structure, challenge normalized practices, and enforce a higher-standard for the game of hockey. Reach out, comment or share your opinions as we continue to go Beyond the X’s and O’s.

Duration:00:52:53

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Journey to the Hockey Hall of Fame with Rane Carnegie

1/14/2023
Rane Carnegie is a Motivational Speaker, minor hockey coach and the youngest grandchild of the late Hockey Hall of Famer Dr. Herb Carnegie. Rane was a former 1st round draft pick in the 2001 OHL draft. He went on to play semi pro in the AHL, ECHL, CHL and finished his career overseas in Sweden, Finland and France respectively. He has helped keep his grandfather’s legacy alive through the Carnegie Initiative and continuing the Futures Aces Hockey School. Dr. Herb Carnegie broke barriers and made hockey history by being part of the only “All Black Line” in the semi-pro leagues in the 1940s. Following his hockey career, he established the first registered hockey school in Canada in 1955. His greatest contribution to society began by including a character development component along with hockey skills training. Rane is an avid sports fan, passionate storyteller, and a family man. Specifically in this episode we dove into: Find out more about the Carnegie Initiative. Enjoy the episode as we continue to go Beyond the X’s and O’s.

Duration:01:05:35

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Examining the Minnesota Hockey Development Model with Mike Snee

12/4/2022
Mike Snee is the Executive Director of College Hockey, Inc.'s. In this role he guides College Hockey Inc.'s marketing efforts to promote Division I men's college hockey and its work to help grow the number of institutions offering the sport. Snee is also a member of the Board of Directors of both USA Hockey and U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame. Prior to joining College Hockey Inc. Snee was the Executive Director for Minnesota Hockey. Before joining Minnesota Hockey, Snee spent nine years with Minnesota Sports & Entertainment, the parent company of the NHL’s Minnesota Wild. Snee, a 1991 graduate of the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, MN, started his sports business career as an intern with the Minnesota North Stars, and also worked for the NBA’s Minnesota Timberwolves and the Minnesota Moose of the now-defunct International Hockey League. Mike helped us take a critical lens to the culture of hockey and questioned many of the long-standing and accepted norms in hockey. Specifically we covered: It was an insightful discussion that really went Beyond the X’s and O’s.

Duration:01:07:09

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Creating a Culture of Accountability

11/5/2022
In this episode we decided to dive into accountability - a crucial component to any team or organization. We believe the standards of what is acceptable behaviour within the sport culture are changing, but without the proper structures of accountability real change will be slow. The shortcomings of Hockey Canada and other national sport organizations are prime examples of the importance of accountability - click here for a recent article that we make mention of in this episode. Accountability often gets this ‘bad wrap’ and gets interpreted as being overly critically, hard on people, and negative. But the reality is people want structure and clear expectations. This does not need to be a point of contention, but rather an opportunity for collaboration and clarity. The fact is when a culture of accountability is created, it helps both the team and individual people thrive. Thinking of accountability as a proactive rather than reactive process is essential. It pays off to invest the time and energy upfront creating clear expectations and agreed upon commitments. Trying to create a culture of accountability when you are in the middle of a fire and trying to clean up the mess is a lot more challenging. The concepts and strategies we cover in this episode apply to leadership at all levels. Reach out with any questions or comments. Enjoy this episode as we continue to go Beyond the X’s and O’s.

Duration:00:32:34

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Bringing People Together with Lee MJ Elias

10/29/2022
Lee Elias is a two-time award winning author and has coached at the international, professional, collegiate, and youth levels. He is also the founder of Hockey Wraparound and Game Seven Group. In addition, Lee’s professional experience includes having helped organizations such as the NHL, NBC, Hearst Media, A&E, Madison Square Garden, and several sports organizations. Lee is an acclaimed keynote speaker in both virtual and in person events, and is the co-host of Our Kids Play Hockey, a top podcast in the hockey market. Lee is passionate about his mission to make the world believe in trust and teamwork through his coaching, speaking and consulting work. Lee is all about bringing people together. His enthusiasm is contagious and will leave you inspired to be a better leader. Furthermore, he provided numerous practical strategies any coach and leader can use to help bring people together. Specifically we covered: Enjoy this episode as we go Beyond the X’s and O’s.

Duration:01:08:47

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Championship Talk with Andrew Cogliano

10/15/2022
Andrew Cogliano has spent the past 15 seasons in the NHL amassing 1,140 games, of which he had a consecutive streak of 830 games. He recently won the Stanley Cup with the Colorado Avalanche. He previously played for the San Jose Sharks, Dallas Stars, Anaheim Ducks, and Edmonton Oilers (the team who picked him in the 1st Round of the 2005 NHL Entry Draft). Championships seem to follow Cogliano, as he has also won internationally representing Canada at the World Junior tournament, winning two gold medals, as well as being on the U-18 Canadian team that won gold, and representing Team Ontario, winning the gold medal at the U-17 World Hockey Challenge. He also led the St. Michael’s Buzzers Jr. A team to an Ontario Championship. He truly has a team-first mentality and is dedicated to helping his teams win. In this episode Cogliano shares: The bottom line is you will get to see a unique perspective into Cogliano's mindset and how he is clearly someone who goes Beyond the X’s and O’s.

Duration:00:53:38

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Taking Leadership from the Bench to the Boardroom with Joe Birch

9/24/2022
Joe Birch is the current Chief Operating Officer and Governor for the storied Kitchener Rangers of the Ontario Hockey League. Joe played in the OHL with the Rangers and the London Knights before finishing his playing career at Western University. He then embarked on a coaching career where he was an Assistant Coach with the St. Thomas Stars and had the chance to work with San Jose Sharks captain Logan Couture. His next stop was working at the OHL Head Office for 12 years. There he created and developed the position of Director of Player Recruitment and Education Services, which then led to a Senior Director of Hockey Development and Special Events position and, lastly, he was Vice President of Hockey Development with the OHL. Joe’s diverse background in hockey provided us with some great insights to applying the principles of leadership to non-coaching positions. Specifically, we covered: We hope you enjoy this episode of the Beyond the X’s and O’s Podcast.

Duration:01:08:44