GTM Live

In this episode of GTM Live, Carolyn sits down with Matthew Sciannella, VP of Innovation at Refine Labs, for a candid conversation about the flaws of B2B marketing measurement and why so many teams keep fighting the same losing battles. They dig into why attribution has made a generation of marketing leaders worse at their jobs, what great demand generation actually requires (hint: it starts way upstream with product marketing), and why slapping AI onto a broken system just makes the noise louder. Episode highlights: If your pipeline dashboards aren't giving you straight answers, this episode is a good gut check on where to look first. 🔗 RESOURCES: [Work With Us]Follow Carolyn on LinkedInFollow Matt on LinkedInSchedule Your Session — This episode is powered by Passetto. If your pipeline dashboards aren't giving you straight answers, you're in good company. Most GTM teams simply don't have the visibility to understand what's truly driving pipeline and revenue, what's slowing them down, or where to focus next.

🎟️ Join our Live Workshop on Feb 11: The KPIs every marketing team needs to measure to understand their real influence on pipeline. Save your seat here. Replay included. In this episode of GTM Live, Amber sits down with Matt Green, Co-Founder and CRO of Sales Assembly, to talk about what’s actually working in GTM right now, and why so many teams are stuck debating the wrong things. They start with the real root cause of credit wars: marketing and sales are fighting because they’re measured on competing scorecards. Matt makes the case for a simpler model around shared revenue accountability, and why the attribution debate gets a lot quieter when the business is closing deals. Episode highlights: If you’re trying to use content to drive more engagement, more conversations, and more pipeline, this episode is packed with practical ways to do it. 🔗 RESOURCES: Book a [FREE] 1:1 Revenue Visibility Assessment to learn where your key data gaps are. [Schedule Your Session] We’re opening our Q2 cohort for the 14-Day Revenue Visibility Diagnostic, designed to help GTM teams understand what’s actually driving pipeline, where measurement breaks down & what to fix going into Q2. [Book a call to see if you’re a fit] Follow Amber on LinkedIn Follow Matt on LinkedIn Check out the amazing stuff Sales Assembly is doing – This episode is powered by Passetto. If your pipeline & revenue dashboards aren't giving you straight answers, you're in good company. Most GTM teams simply don't have the visibility to understand what's truly driving pipeline and revenue, what's slowing them down, or where to focus next.

You asked, we're answering. In this listener Q&A episode, Amber and Carolyn tackle the hard questions GTM leaders are wrestling with behind closed doors…from broken attribution models to navigating organizational resistance when you're trying to drive real change. In this episode: This isn't surface-level advice. Amber and Carolyn are in the trenches daily with CROs, CMOs and RevOps leaders, rearchitecting go-to-market strategies and challenging sacred cows. We’re bringing real examples to this convo, honest reflections about entrepreneurship, and zero sugarcoating about what separates companies that evolve from those that don't. Keep sending your questions. We want to hear your hot takes, especially if you disagree with what we’re saying. 🔗 CTAs & LINKS: Book your 14-Day Sprintupcoming Virtual Workshop1:1 Revenue Visibility AssessmentFollow Carolyn on LinkedInFollow Amber on LinkedIn – This episode is powered by Passetto. If your pipeline dashboards aren't giving you straight answers, you're in good company. Most GTM teams simply don't have the visibility to understand what's truly driving pipeline and revenue, what's slowing them down, or where to focus next. Passetto changes that. In just 14 days, our Sprint gives you full-funnel visibility, clear answers about what's working and what isn't, and a focused set of strategic priorities to accelerate pipeline creation and align your teams immediately.

Most marketing and revenue leaders know their data model is flawed. The elite ones actually architect something new. This is how. This episode is part of a 5-part series exploring the journey B2B revenue leaders take from reactive chaos to finally understanding, measuring, and transforming their entire Revenue Factory. Each stage represents a critical inflection point and the exact moments that separate leaders who consistently hit targets and drive real, provable results. This episode explores Stage 4: Architecting Transformation—where you shift from recognizing what's broken to designing what comes next. This is where transformation moves from concept to practice. What We Cover in This Episode: This is the episode for every revenue, marketing, or GTM leader who has ever thought: "I know what needs to change, but I don't know where to start" "How do I get leadership to invest in this transformation?" "What does the new model actually need to look like?" Stage 4 is where you become the architect of your own transformation. This is where you stop talking about change and start building it. 🔗 CTAs & LINKS: Book your 14-Day Sprintupcoming virtual events1:1 Revenue Data AssessmentFollow Carolyn on LinkedIn – This episode is powered by Passetto. If your pipeline dashboards aren't giving you straight answers, you're in good company. Most GTM teams simply don't have the visibility to understand what's truly driving pipeline and revenue, what's slowing them down, or where to focus next. Passetto changes that. In just 14 days, our Sprint gives you full-funnel visibility, clear answers about what's working and what isn't, and a focused set of strategic priorities to accelerate pipeline creation and align your teams immediately.

In this episode, Carolyn and Amber break down a real-world case study of a $25M ARR enterprise SaaS company in a highly regulated industry that came to Passetto with strong teams, active demand, and declining win rates...but no reliable way to explain the genetic makeup of their deals or prove how marketing influenced revenue. We break down what surfaced during a 14-day analysis: why most opportunities had no clear lineage, how underperforming channels like paid search were absorbing spend without driving meaningful conversion, and how marketing influence effectively disappeared once deals entered the sales cycle. Most importantly, we share how rebuilding visibility across the funnel can turn win rate into a controllable lever, and why we estimate this shift alone could unlock ~$1M in incremental revenue, without increasing pipeline volume, budget, or headcount. We break down the insights their team uncovered: This episode shows how a clear view into what actually drives revenue became a forcing function for action, giving this team’s leadership the confidence to move fast, fix foundational gaps, and use the findings as a business case for planning the first two quarters of 2026. 🔗 CTAs & LINKS: Book your 14-Day Sprintupcoming virtual eventsfree 1:1 Revenue Visibility AssessmentFollow Carolyn on LinkedInFollow Amber on LinkedIn – This episode is powered by Passetto. If your pipeline dashboards aren’t giving you straight answers, you’re in good company. Most GTM teams simply don’t have the visibility to understand what’s truly driving pipeline and revenue, what’s slowing them down, or where to focus next. Passetto changes that. In just 14 days, our Sprint gives you full-funnel visibility, clear answers about what’s working and what isn’t, and a focused set of strategic priorities to accelerate pipeline creation and align your teams immediately.

When you’re working harder than ever and still getting questioned, most leaders assume they’re the problem. But what if the real reason you're exhausted isn’t lack of effort...it's that you’re trying to win inside a model that was never designed to show your impact? This episode is part of a 5-part series exploring the journey B2B revenue leaders take from reactive chaos to finally understanding, measuring, and transforming their entire Revenue Factory. Each stage represents a critical inflection point and the exact moments that separate leaders who consistently hit targets and drive real, provable results… from those who spend every quarter scrambling, duct-taping reports, and wondering why nothing is working. This episode explores Stage 3: The Breaking Point, AKA the most emotionally charged and career-defining moment in the entire transformation journey. What We Cover in This Episode: This is the episode for every revenue, marketing, or GTM leader who has ever thought: I’m exhausted from constantly defending myself.” “I KNOW we’re making an impact, so why can’t I prove it?” “What if the problem isn’t me… but the entire system?” 🔗 CTAs & LINKS: Book your 14-Day Sprint2-Day GTM Intensive1:1 Revenue Visibility AssessmentFollow Carolyn on LinkedIn – This episode is powered by Passetto. If your pipeline dashboards aren’t giving you straight answers, you’re in good company. Most GTM teams simply don’t have the visibility to understand what’s truly driving pipeline and revenue, what’s slowing them down, or where to focus next.

You launched the experiments. You spent the budget. And now leadership wants answers. And suddenly every QBR feels like a fire drill. This is Stage 2 of the revenue leader’s transformation—the moment when activity is high, effort is real, but impact is frustratingly hard to prove. You’re working harder than ever, yet you can’t confidently tie what your team is doing to pipeline, revenue, or real ROI. This episode is part two of a five-part series exploring the journey B2B revenue leaders go through as they move from reactive execution to full revenue visibility and executive-level confidence. Each stage represents a breaking point, where leaders either confront the real problem or stay stuck explaining away the same issues quarter after quarter. In this episode, we unpack Stage 2: The QBR Fire Drill—the phase where credibility, confidence, and career momentum are quietly put at risk. You’re likely in Stage 2 if you’ve ever said, “Board decks take days to build and still don’t tell a clean story.” What We Cover in This Episode: This stage forces a hard reckoning. Not just with your systems, but with your willingness to challenge the status quo, speak uncomfortable truths, and admit that the current way of measuring GTM is no longer good enough. 🔗 CTAs & LINKS: Get the visibility and strategic priorities your GTM team needs to move decisively. Book your 14-Day Sprint here. Register for Passetto’s upcoming 2-Day GTM Intensive Book a free 1:1 Revenue Visibility Assessment Follow Carolyn on LinkedIn – This episode is powered by Passetto. If your pipeline dashboards aren’t giving you straight answers, you’re in good company. Most GTM teams simply don’t have the visibility to understand what’s truly driving pipeline and revenue, what’s slowing them down, or where to focus next. Passetto changes that. In just 14 days, our Sprint gives you full-funnel visibility, clear answers about what’s working and what isn’t, and a focused set of strategic priorities to accelerate pipeline creation and align your teams immediately.

In this episode, Carolyn and Amber pull back the curtain on a $500M cybersecurity company that came to Passetto stuck in last-touch reporting, declining win rates, an overreliance on product trials, and zero visibility into what SDRs were actually working. In just 14 days, their Growth Sprint surfaced what months of internal analysis couldn’t: the true drivers of revenue, why trials convert at only 5%, why hand-raisers deliver 2X the deal size and win rate, and how 40% of opportunities are created with no traceable sales trigger at all. We walk through the exact before-and-after: their revenue architecture score, the missing SDR prospecting layer, the downstream impact of “low-signal” opportunities, and the data that finally gives the team conviction to modernize their demand engine. Even with strong tools and a mature sales motion, they’re operating with only 55% revenue visibility, record-low win rates, and a demand strategy built almost entirely on trials—until the Sprint changes the trajectory. We break down the insights their team uncovers: A powerful example of what happens when companies finally get the full-funnel visibility they’ve been missing. 🔗 CTAs & LINKS: upcoming virtual events1:1 Data Visibility AssessmentCarolyn on LinkedInAmber on LinkedIn– This episode is powered by Passetto. If your pipeline dashboards aren’t giving you straight answers, you’re in good company. Most GTM teams simply don’t have the visibility to understand what’s truly driving pipeline and revenue, what’s slowing them down, or where to focus next. Book a 14-Day Growth Sprint and get clear answers about what’s working and what isn’t, and a focused set of strategic priorities to accelerate pipeline creation and align your teams immediately.

🔓 LEAKED: 45 minutes from our invite-only workshop for B2B GTM leaders. We recently held a live workshop for 100+ marketing leaders, CROs, and RevOps pros from companies spanning Spain to Sweden to North America. The session was intense. The chat was on fire. And now we're doing something we don't usually do: we're releasing a 45-minute cut of the core framework training. This is the educational backbone of the workshop where we exposed what's broken in traditional GTM measurement and walked through the exact framework high-performing teams are using instead. Real Problems From Workshop Attendees: What's We Cover: This workshop will completely change how you think about pipeline measurement and give you a clear understanding of what to track in today's GTM ecosystem. This is the framework elite teams have already transitioned to, and now it's your turn. 🔗 CTAs & LINKS: Register for Passetto’s upcoming virtual events Book a free 1:1 Revenue Visibility Assessment Follow Carolyn on LinkedIn Follow Amber on LinkedIn – This episode is powered by Passetto. If you're tired of staring at dashboards that don't tell you what you need to know, you're not alone. Most revenue leaders are flying blind because of the Pipeline Black Box™, a critical data gap that keeps you from understanding what's actually driving results. Passetto transforms how you run your revenue engine, so you can finally see what's working, fix what's not, and scale with precision. Tired of guessing what's generating pipeline and what's draining your resources? Book a free strategy call.

In this HANDS-ON episode of GTM Live, we're ditching theory and building a real go-to-market strategy live—using AI, public data, and a completely different approach to finding and messaging prospects. Join host Amber Williams and special guest Jordan Crawford, the "OG GTM Engineer" and early advisor to Clay, for a masterclass in pain-qualified segmentation. Watch as Jordan demonstrates how to use ChatGPT to identify prospects who actually need your solution and craft messages that deliver independent value before you ever ask for a meeting. What You'll Learn: AI has transformed tools from "access" to "power tools" overnight. Leaders can no longer delegate strategy to RevOps and hope for the best. You need to get your hands dirty with the data to understand what's actually possible. 🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES: Watch the entire ⁠live GTM build on YouTube⁠ Follow Jordan on LinkedIn Subscribe to Cannonball GTM on Substack Follow Amber on LinkedIn — This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠. If you're tired of staring at dashboards that don't tell you what you need to know, you're not alone. Most revenue leaders are flying blind because of the Pipeline Black Box™, a critical data gap that keeps you from understanding what's actually driving results. Passetto transforms how you run your revenue engine, so you can finally see what's working, fix what's not, and scale with precision. Tired of guessing what's generating pipeline and what's draining your resources? Book a free strategy call.

When pipeline starts slipping and targets go up, most revenue leaders do the same thing: they panic. They launch new experiments, adopt the latest AI tools, and try to do more, faster, harder. But what if that's exactly what's keeping you stuck? This episode is part of a 5-part series exploring the journey B2B revenue leaders take from reactive chaos to understanding and measuring their full revenue factory, and transforming their careers in the process. Each stage represents a critical transformation moment that separates leaders who consistently hit their targets and drive real results from those who scramble every quarter wondering why nothing's working. This episode explores Stage 1: The Panic Response, and it represents the first stage in revenue transformation. You’re likely in Stage 1 if you’re asking questions like, "What experiments should I try next?", "What are other companies doing that I should copy?", or "What AI tool is going to save my pipeline?". What We Cover in This Episode: — This episode is powered by Passetto. If you're tired of staring at dashboards that don't tell you what you need to know, you're not alone. Most revenue leaders are flying blind because of the Pipeline Black Box™, a critical data gap that keeps you from understanding what's actually driving results. Passetto transforms how you run your revenue engine, so you can finally see what's working, fix what's not, and scale with precision. Tired of guessing what's generating pipeline and what's draining your resources? Book a free strategy call: https://www.passetto.com/book-a-call

On this episode of GTM Live, Carolyn and Amber sit down with Steve Armenti, CEO & Founder of Twelfth Agency and former demand gen leader at Google. Steve shares his journey from corporate marketing to building a thriving agency, and dive into why most revenue teams miss the real story in their data, how to flip the script on pipeline analysis by studying rejection instead of just conversion, and the critical role of sales + marketing alignment in fixing the “pipeline black box.” You’ll hear practical examples from Steve’s experiences as an in-house demand gen leader and now running his ABX agency, insights into what’s working for growth-stage SaaS companies right now, and a fresh perspective on building GTM systems that actually deliver results. If you’re a CMO, CRO, or RevOps leader looking for new ways to diagnose what’s holding back your pipeline, this episode is a must-listen. Key Topics Covered: 🔗 LINKS: ⁠Spotify⁠⁠YouTube Channel⁠SteveTwelfth AgencyCarolynAmber — This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a technology-enabled GTM advisory with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

Ashley Lewin has audited 30+ companies in her career and seen the same pattern: marketing teams stuck chasing MQLs while revenue stalls. In this episode, Carolyn and Trevor dig into Ashley’s perspective on why MQLs keep organizations trapped in short-term thinking, and how she’s applying those lessons now as Head of Marketing at Aligned. We talk through what it takes to stand up a marketing function from scratch at a hybrid PLG + sales-assisted company, why implementing HubSpot’s Lead object was a foundational bet, and how “fail fast” disqualification changed the way BDRs and sales managers manage their pipeline. Ashley also shares her playbook for winning executive buy-in: showing CEOs a predictable growth equation that replaces lead volume with qualified pipeline and product activation. What You’ll Learn: If your growth plan still relies on lead math, you’re running on outdated assumptions. Ashley shows how to build a system that actually scales revenue, not just reporting. 🔗 LINKS Register for our Oct 8 Pipeline KPI Workshop https://www.passetto.com/events/pipeline-visibility-workshop Follow GTM Live on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1AJwHPDw2RuybeMnn7CnNP?si=9eefda6174fb465c Subscribe to the GTM Live YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@GTMLivePodcast Connect with Carolyn on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolyn-dilks/ Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleylewin/ — This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a technology-enabled GTM advisory with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

If your board asks “Why is pipeline down?” and your opportunity dashboards only say marketing-sourced vs. SDR-sourced (AKA the four-funnel model), you’re stuck with surface-level data and left guessing at fixes instead of diagnosing the problem. The real story lives between engagement and opportunity, the unmeasured factory floor where prospecting happens (or dies). In this episode, Carolyn and Amber show how to rip the lid off that black box, swap vanity volume for "causal" metrics, and find the repeatable patterns that actually manufacture pipeline. Expect blunt takes, practical questions to bring to RevOps tomorrow, and real outcomes from teams who’ve made the shift (e.g., win rates jumping from ~13% to ~24% and easier budget approvals once the black box is illuminated). What You’ll Learn: Who This Episode For CROs, CMOs, Demand leaders, and RevOps owners ready to graduate from MQLs/last-touch to a factory-style measurement system. 🔗 LINKS https://www.passetto.com/events/pipeline-visibility-workshop Spotify YouTube ChannelCarolyn on LinkedInAmber on LinkedIn— This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a GTM advisory and instrumentation software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

In this episode of GTM Live, Carolyn joins the Growth Activated Podcast as a guest to unpack one of the biggest blind spots in GTM today: what actually happens before an opportunity is created. 99% of GTM teams still can’t see this stage clearly. It’s the “grey area” where SDRs and BDRs are grinding—sending emails, making calls, chasing signals, running sequences—all in the hope of booking a meeting that turns into pipeline. The problem? None of this activity is tracked in a clear, causal way. Leaders only see pipeline “sources” (marketing, sales, SDR), which hides the bigger story. Pipeline isn’t a source—it’s a chain reaction. A trigger sparks sales work, a series of events unfolds, and only some of those reliably convert to opportunities. Most of it? Invisible. That’s why pipeline creation still feels like guesswork. Carolyn explains why source-based reporting and last-touch attribution keep teams stuck, and how to instrument the pre-opportunity “factory floor” with simple metrics that expose what’s really working. Key Topics in this Episode: — This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a GTM advisory and instrumentation software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

Most GTM teamstoday are missing targets because they're simply measuring the wrong things. In this episode, Carolyn and Amber unpack why attribution is a mirage (it only shows the lucky 2% that become opportunities) and why the MQL hamster wheel keeps smart teams stuck optimizing a tiny slice of reality. We dig into the pre-pipeline “factory floor,” show how to expose the messy middle, and explain why “more volume” isn’t a strategy—it’s a cash leak. You’ll hear concrete ways to replace vanity conversion stats with a causal view of attempts → connects → meetings → opps → DQs (with reasons), what to do about pipeline shock when you tighten scoring, and why pipeline needs a single owner (hint: not “marketing-sourced”). We also talk about modular change vs. big-bang transformations, and where attribution actually belongs (as seasoning, not the main ingredient), dig into where attribution actually belongs in GTM measurement (spoiler: it’s seasoning, not the protein), and explain why modular change beats waiting for a full-scale transformation. What You’ll Learn: Attribution ≠ answers: It validates the 2-5% that convert and hides the waste in the 98%. Kill the MQL hamster wheel: Measure the journey, not just MQL→SQL%. Instrument the factory floor: Person-level steps that predict pipeline (and the drop-offs to fix). Volume lies: “Do more dials” is a 2012 play—engineer repeatable patterns instead. Pipeline shock is healthy: Fewer junk opps → higher win rate and better CAC. One owner for pipeline: Align Sales + Marketing on quality pipeline, not credit. When to use attribution: After you fix data hygiene and pre-pipeline tracking. If your dashboards keep telling you to “get more leads” or “add more dials,” you’re staring at the pipeline mirage. Break free from the hamster wheel, shine a light on the messy middle, and finally see what’s really driving, or draining, your revenue. This episode is powered by Passetto, a GTM advisory and software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most. 🔗 LINKS & CTAs CarolynAmber Pipeline Optimization Sprint

Most companies are flying blind at the most important stage in revenue creation. Decisions get made on gut feel, data lives in silos, and leaders can’t answer the simplest question: what’s really working, and what’s not? On this episode of GTM Live, Carolyn and Trevor are joined by their new co-host Amber Williams, Head of Revenue Operations at Passetto, to unpack why GTM leaders need to treat revenue like a science – bringing structure, data, and predictability to the go-to-market engine. The hosts dive into why leaders often make decisions based on instinct instead of data, how poor data architecture creates hidden risks for growth, and why building visibility into every stage of the funnel is critical for confident decision-making. The team also tackles the cross-functional blame game—why marketing and sales point fingers over handoffs and lead quality when the real problem is a lack of shared visibility. Without a unified view of the pipeline, every GTM function is forced to defend itself in silos instead of solving the bigger issue together. Key moments in this episode: [03:15] Why “more tech” in 2025 doesn’t mean more clarity [08:42] The pipeline black box and what RevOps needs to uncover [16:30] Why gut-driven GTM decisions break down at scale [22:05] The hidden cost of poor data architecture on growth and trust [31:47] How systematic revenue visibility transforms executive decision-making This episode is powered by Passetto, a GTM advisory and software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

This week on GTM Live, Carolyn and Trevor sit down with Mark Turner, VP of Revenue Operations at Demandbase, to break down how RevOps leaders can build aligned systems, drive better GTM execution, and measure what actually matters. Mark shares how his early background in FP&A shaped his leadership approach, bringing a data-first, analytical mindset to RevOps that balances strategic planning with operational precision. He also unpacks what it really takes to build a unified data layer across the GTM org, and why consistent definitions and connected systems are key to moving fast and measuring effectively. Key topics in this episode: This episode is powered by Passetto, a GTM advisory and software company helping B2B teams build Revenue Sciences™, a measurable system that uncovers bottlenecks and data gaps, transforming go-to-market into a closed-loop engine for confident, scalable growth.

This week on GTM Live, Carolyn sits down with Sam Dunning, SEO leader and B2B growth expert, to unpack how SEO has dramatically evolved and what top-performing companies must do to adapt. They dive into why traditional SEO—focused on keywords, rankings, and traffic—is now too siloed, and how modern SEO needs to align with revenue, messaging, and the full customer journey. They also explore outdated SEO metrics, the pitfalls of last-touch attribution, and why shifting to a revenue-influence mindset is essential. You’ll hear what modern SEO looks like in a revenue-led org, how category narrative (not keyword stuffing) is the new growth lever, and how AI is reshaping both content production and search behavior. Together, Carolyn and Sam challenge the idea that SEO can be a standalone marketing channel, it’s a powerful GTM distribution engine when done right. Key topics in this episode: Why SEO can’t be a silo anymore How to reframe SEO as a distribution strategy, not just a traffic engine Why aligning SEO with your company’s POV drives better outcomes How AI is reshaping the content and SEO landscape Why B2B companies need to track influence, not just rankings or leads The biggest SEO measurement mistakes teams still make What high-performing teams are doing differently with content 📣 Share this with any marketer or RevOps leader still tracking SEO like it’s 2015. Passetto is a GTM advisory and software company that helps B2B SaaS teams achieve true Revenue Visibility. We work alongside revenue leaders to expose data blind spots, build the right data infrastructure, and eliminate the pipeline black hole. Visit ⁠⁠passetto.com⁠.

This week on GTM Live, Carolyn sits down with Dave Boyce, Executive Chair at Winning by Design and longtime SaaS builder, to explore why GTM systems are breaking, and what modern companies must do differently to build for predictable, customer-centered growth. They dive into what Dave calls “the layers of sediment” that have built up over time, e.g. commissions, org design, reporting structures, and outdated dashboards, and why those legacy systems are misaligned with today’s buying behavior. They also talk about the real challenges CROs are facing right now: Deals are harder to win, old tactics aren’t working, and most GTM teams are stuck optimizing for the wrong outcomes. You’ll hear practical examples of what high-performing companies like Atlassian are doing differently, the importance of empathy in system design, and why the CEO—not just Sales or Marketing—needs to own this transformation. Together, they unpack why most GTM strategies break down. And it’s not because of effort, but because they lack system design. Key topics in this episode: The broken layers of GTM measurement, and why that era is over Why commissions often reinforce short-term, self-interested behavior Why visibility across the full funnel/bowtie is essential for accountability and improvement The "Andon Cord" concept from Toyota and what GTM can learn from it Why the CEO must own GTM system design (and why FP&A is the ideal quarterback) What Atlassian does differently to align around the customer 📣 Share this with an exec who still thinks GTM is a funnel. This episode is powered by ⁠⁠Passetto⁠⁠. We help high-growth and equity-backed companies turn GTM data into better decisions, faster. We unify your GTM and financial data, identify your growth levers, and help you scale. Part SaaS, part advisory. Visit ⁠⁠passetto.com⁠.