Pioneers and Pathfinders

Our guest today is Stephen Allen, a leading market expert and innovator in the legal world. Among his many roles, Stephen is EMEA Lead at Lotis Blue Consulting, which utilizes data and behavioral science to help companies with their growth and transformation. Stephen is also Chief Scout at Trampelpfad, which delivers innovative, established paths to success for law firms and legal departments. He has worked in legal services for over 25 years, having started as a lawyer in both private practice and in-house communities. He has played significant innovation roles at various organizations where he has worked. At Hogan Lovells, Stephen built an alternative delivery and innovation capability, and launched complementary businesses in financial services consulting and technology. He later joined Elevate, where he worked with customers to define their roles, and he designed market-leading solutions to business-of-law problems faced by law departments and law firms. In our conversation, Stephen discusses Trampelpfad—the business and the English translation of the word, why he likes working with lawyers, the lessons he learned from the telecom industry, and the commonalities and differences between the organizations where he has worked.

Today we welcome a true pioneer and one of the first legal operations professionals in the industry, Connie Brenton. Connie is CEO and founder of LegalOps.com—a community bringing together the legal ecosystem to drive competitive advantage. She has over 20 years of expertise and innovation experience in the industry, building community, and driving leadership. Connie started her legal operations career at the enterprise software company Sun Microsystems. She then launched the legal operations functions at the companies Oracle and NetApp. Connie also founded CLOC (Corporate Legal Operations Consortium) and was CEO of the organization. CLOC is one of the organizations under Connie’s leadership that defined legal operations as we now know it. Additionally, she co-authored the book Running Legal Like a Business with Susan Lambreth, a previous guest on the podcast. As a result of her work, Connie has received a Lifetime Achievement Award from American Lawyer Media. In today's discussion, Connie talks about her decision to start LegalOps.com, what it means to run legal "like a business," the qualities necessary to be part of a legal ops team, and community-building in a hybrid world.

Our guest today is a prolific connector and skilled executive coach in the legal industry. David Cowen is the founder and president of The Cowen Group and founder of the Summit on Legal Innovation and Disruption (SOLID). David started in staffing and recruiting, where he learned more about the art of making connections. Years later, as the demand for litigation support and eDiscovery talent grew, David pivoted toward the legal industry as a subject matter expert in building office legal support and technology teams. He ultimately founded The Cowen Group, which became the nation's leading search firm in staffing and recruiting senior legal leaders and next generation legal technologists. Over time, the firm has transitioned to the events space, hosting legal events on numerous topics such as legal innovation, legal operations, and eDiscovery. Among these many events is SOLID, a global series which focuses on innovation and the practice of law. These working groups bring together the most innovative thinkers and practitioners to take deep dives together into the hottest issues in the industry (As a disclaimer, Seyfarth is a supporter and host of many of the SOLID conferences.). Additionally, David writes extensively on managing and developing careers, “the war for talent,” and the motivations behind investments in people, process, and technology. In today's conversation, David discusses why he founded SOLID, how he ended up in the legal industry, how he has kept up with client demands, and the importance of asking people for favors.

Today we're joined by Kris Niedringhaus of Georgia State University College of Law. Kris has a few roles at the law school: associate dean for Library, Information Services, Legal Tech & Innovation; faculty director of the Legal Analytics & Innovation Initiative; and clinical professor of law. For over two decades, she has been a law librarian and law professor at universities throughout the US. She has also been with the Center for Computer Assisted Legal Instruction (CALI) for more than 20 years in various roles, currently serving as an author, board member, and chair of the Legal Research Community Authoring Project advisory board. She is an executive committee member of the Association of American Law Schools' Section on Technology, Law, and Legal Education. Additionally, Kris has written and presented on topics such as legal research, teaching methods, and law library management. In our discussion, Kris talks about the Legal Analytics & Innovation Initiative, how law students should approach legal technology, finding her place in the legal world, and why she enjoys student hackathons.

This week, we welcome Leah Molatseli, founder of Contract Alchemists, a company with the goal of modernizing legal teams through legal operations, agile methodologies, and technology. Leah has over 10 years of experience in the legal field, and has a certificate in Entrepreneurship and Innovation from the University of Notre Dame. After practicing for a few years, she co-founded Lenoma Legal, a virtual legal tech startup aimed at helping small businesses in South Africa. Prior to starting Contract Alchemists, Leah was head of business development at Legal Interact, a legal tech company. She is also a speaker, a published author, and a council member at the University of the Free State. Additionally, she recently joined LexisNexis South Africa as an author and became a Voice and Brand Council Member at the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC). In today's conversation, Leah discusses the legal community in South Africa, how she approaches her writing, the TV shows that inspired her to become an attorney, and how being purpose-driven shapes her decision-making.

Today’s guest is helping people understand technology concepts and jargon so that they can succeed in the digital age. Sophia Matveeva is the founder and CEO of Tech for Non-Techies, an education and executive coaching company that was inspired by her previous experience starting a tech company and struggling to communicate with developers. Through this education platform, business leaders—including legal professionals—can learn more about technology, entrepreneurship, and career success, without having to learn how to code. In addition to her work at Tech for Non-Techies, Sophia is a startup mentor at the Chicago Booth Polsky Center of Entrepreneurship, and has advised leading accelerators, including Chicago Booth’s New Venture Challenge and the Techstars x Blackstone Launchpad. She also sits on the advisory board to Riviter, which uses AI to predict consumer trends for the world’s biggest brands. Sophia has contributed to the Harvard Business Review, Financial Times, The Guardian, and Forbes, writing on entrepreneurship and technology, and she hosts the Tech for Non-Techies podcast. She has also guest lectured at the University of Chicago, London Business School, and Oxford University. In our wide-ranging discussion, Sophia talks about the origins and objectives of Tech for Non-Techies, perfectionism versus flexibility in the legal world, the readership of her tech blog, and allowing time for curiosity.

Today we welcome Sue Bunnell, Assistant General Counsel & Executive Director at Wells Fargo, and a career catalyst. Sue has been with Wells Fargo for over two decades, serving many different functions. In her current role, she partners with senior business, risk, and compliance leaders. She also oversees the Catalyst Program, which helps high-potential professionals learn and examine their goals in order to achieve the next steps in their careers. Sue is also a frequent speaker who facilitates workshops for a wide range of groups, and she partners one-on-one with professionals, focusing on strong self-advocacy skills. Additionally, Sue is board co-chair at Leading Women in Technology, an organization that helps professional women develop the skills, experience, and approaches necessary to map their own paths to success and achieve their goals. She is also a board member at Professional BusinessWomen of California. In our conversation, Sue talks about the importance of self-advocacy, the qualities of an ideal mentor, the Catalyst Program, and her work in Leading Women in Technology.

Today’s guests, Lisa Colpoys and Mark Chandler, help lead the Filing Fairness Project at the Deborah L. Rhode Center on the Legal Profession at Stanford Law School. This project is an ambitious, multijurisdictional effort to modernize court filing systems, widen access to courts, and improve the administration of justice by leveraging readily available technology already used in other sectors. Mark was chief legal officer at Cisco for 20 years, leading it to become one of the most innovative legal departments in the world. After leaving the company, he teamed initially with Professor David Freeman Engstrom and Stanford Legal Design Lab leader Margaret Darin Hagan to tackle the gap between the sophisticated tools available in the corporate world and those used by legal aid organizations and self-represented litigants as they navigate the court system. Lisa, who had already been an experienced leader in legal aid for over two decades, joined the leadership team last spring. Lisa previously led Illinois Legal Aid Online, and also worked at the Administrative Office of the Illinois Courts and as a consultant to the Michigan Supreme Court Justice For All Project. Today, Lisa and Mark discuss what led them to Stanford, the goals of the Filing Fairness Project, the biggest challenge the project has faced so far, and the need for additional court funding.

Our guest today is Stephen Embry, a legal tech guru and longtime lawyer. Among Stephen’s many endeavors is TechLaw Crossroads, a blog devoted to the practical impact of technology and innovation on law practice. He writes frequently on the clash of cultures between tech and innovation on the one hand, and the traditional, precedent-grounded legal profession on the other. Today, he is a national litigator and advisor—primarily in the mass tort, business and consumer class action, and privacy and data breach arenas. Additionally, Stephen is the past chair of the ABA’s Law Practice Division and the past chair of the Data Breach, Privacy, and Cyber Insurance Section of the Federation of Defense and Corporate Counsel (FDCC). Stephen has also co-authored the book Mass Tort Claims Resolution Facilities, as well as the 2020, 2017, and 2016 editions of the American Bar Association's Legal Technology Survey Reports. In our conversation, Stephen discusses why he started blogging, the disconnect between lawyers and legal tech vendors, pro se litigants using generative AI, and reconsidering pricing structures with the rise of generative AI.

This week, we're joined by Nicole Morris, professor of practice at Emory University School of Law, director of the Innovation and Legal Tech Initiative, and director of the TI:GER program. Nicole has had a fascinating, multifaceted career journey. After working as a chemical engineer for several years, she decided to go to law school. She then became a patent attorney at large and midsize law firms, and later worked in-house. As a professor of practice at Emory, Nicole's focus includes patent law, patent litigation, IP licensing, and strategy. She is director of the school's program Technological Innovation: Generating Economic Results (TI:GER). TI:GER is an innovative program that brings together graduate students in law, business, science, and engineering to work on ways to take innovative ideas from the lab to the marketplace. In our discussion, Nicole talks about her journey from chemical engineering to law, the various elements of TI:GER, and the importance of human skills in the legal profession.

With this episode, we mark the third anniversary of Pioneers and Pathfinders. Nothing could mark this milestone better than to welcome back a thought leader in the legal profession and legal education, Cat Moon, lecturer and Director of Innovation Design at Vanderbilt University Law School. Since Cat last joined us on the podcast, she has co-founded VAILL, the Vanderbilt AI + Law Lab, which she also co-directs. In this program, she collaborates with professionals across various disciplines to improve legal practice by exploring and experimenting at the intersection of generative AI, legal education, law practice, and access to justice. Today, Cat discusses the resilience of her law students, the challenges ahead for lawyer training, her fascinating work with VAILL, and developing competency in the use of generative AI.

Our guest today is Zack DeMeola, Senior Director of Strategic Initiatives at the Law School Admission Council (LSAC), a not-for-profit organization with the goal of advancing law and justice by promoting access, equity, and fairness in law school admission and supporting learning journeys from prelaw through practice. A former corporate litigation attorney, Zack left practice after several years to join the Institute for the Advancement of the American Legal System (IAALS). There, he led the Foundations for Practice project, the most comprehensive study to date of the skills, competencies, and characteristics new lawyers need, and the Unlocking Legal Regulation Project, where he directed a team of researchers and lawyers to promote a regulatory system that meets the demands of everyday people. From 2020-2023, Zack promoted innovation in the legal profession and in addressing the access to justice crisis as a member of the Governing Council of the ABA Center for Innovation. Today, at LSAC, Zack supports a range of initiatives, from overseeing research into trends affecting current and prospective law students and advocating for a better way to regulate legal education to working with cross-functional teams to design and implement specific programs, learning outcomes, and standards-based assessments in the organization’s educational programs. Zack is also committed to continuous improvement in legal education as a co-chair of the ABA Resources on Outcomes and Assessments Committee. Additionally, he co-founded Access to Justice Ventures with Natalie Anne Knowlton—a past guest on the podcast. In 2023 the ABA Journal named Zack a Legal Rebel for his groundbreaking work creating a holistic way for law students to find where they fit into the profession, including his work with Foundations for Practice. In our wide-ranging discussion, Zack talks about the mission of LSAC, reconsidering the way we educate and test new lawyers, professional identity formation, and how clerking at the Arkansas Supreme Court shaped his career.

This week, we're joined by Maya Markovich, Justice Tech Executive in Residence at Village Capital and co-founder and executive director at the Justice Technology Association. Maya started her career journey in change management consulting for tech, then became a practicing lawyer. Having a deep interest in the possibilities of technology in the legal profession, she went on to work in legal tech product management and product marketing. She later joined Nextlaw Labs and Nextlaw Ventures, founded by Dentons, as Chief Growth Officer. As justice tech executive in residence at Village Capital, Maya works with a broad investor coalition and startup founders to define, support, grow, and fund the justice tech sector. As executive director of the Justice Technology Association, she supports the change-makers who are developing meaningful tech solutions to the A2J crisis. In addition to her work at Village Capital and the Justice Technology Association, Maya is a startup advisor, as well as a consultant for Am Law 50 and midsize law firms, legal departments, alternative legal service providers, investors, and venture funds on tech and innovation. In today's discussion, Maya describes her passion for legal industry innovation and talks about switching from practice to legal tech product management and VC, the common challenges of tech startups, the Justice Technology Association mission, and her core change management principles for successful business transformation.

Today’s guest is reimagining the way legal professionals work as we explore new frontiers in technology. We’re speaking with Ilona Logvinova of McKinsey & Company, a global management consulting firm. Ilona is managing counsel for McKinsey Digital and Head of Innovation for McKinsey Legal. After working as a corporate lawyer for several years, and working in-house at Mastercard, she joined McKinsey as a technology lawyer, a position which ultimately evolved into her current dual role. As managing counsel, she serves a more traditional in-house legal role for McKinsey’s technology legal team. As Head of Innovation, she architects the innovation transformation journey for McKinsey’s legal department—a function that is still relatively new in the legal world. Additionally, Ilona is a frequent author, and writes about innovation and tech on McKinsey's legal blog and other forums. In our conversation, Ilona discusses her fascinating work at McKinsey, the nuances of adopting legal tech, training generative AI tools, and the importance of human centricity in legal innovation.

Our guest today is Sarah Glassmeyer, Director of Data Curation at LegalTechnology Hub. Sarah has worked in various roles as a problem-solver in the legal community. For several years, she was a law librarian at universities around the US. Since then, she has worked as Director of Content Development at the Center for Computer Assisted Legal Instruction (CALI), as a research fellow at Harvard’s Library Innovation Lab and the Berkman Center for Internet and Society, as project manager and legal counsel for the ABA Center for Innovation and Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services, and as a Legal Tech Curator at Reynen Court Inc. At the time we recorded this episode, Sarah was Senior Solutions Analyst at LegalTechnology Hub, but her role has recently changed to Director of Data Curation. In this position, she oversees the content in the LegalTechnology Hub directory. Additionally, Sarah has received numerous accolades and honors. She was part of the inaugural class of the Fastcase 50, was named an ABA Legal Rebel, and has earned a “le Hackie” award from the Legal Hackers organization. In our discussion, Sarah talks about making "lucky jumps" in her career, how being a law librarian has changed over time, her current work at LegalTechnology Hub, and what excites her the most in legal tech.

This week, we welcome Victor Li, Assistant Managing Editor at the ABA Journal. After working as the Assistant District Attorney at the Bronx County District Attorney’s Office, Victor decided to explore a new path—one in journalism. For several years, he was a reporter on various legal industry subjects at The American Lawyer and Law Technology News (now known as Legaltech News). He went on to join the ABA Journal as a legal affairs writer, and later took on his current position as Assistant Managing Editor, overseeing the “Business of Law” front-of-book department, which covers legal tech, law firms, marketing, wellness, law schools, and innovation, among many other topics. Additionally, Victor authored the book Nixon in New York: How Wall Street Helped Richard Nixon Win the White House, which was published in 2018. In today’s conversation, Victor discusses how he broke into journalism; writing about Nixon, wellness, and mental health in the legal profession; and the stories he will be focusing on in 2024.

Today’s guest is Ashley Carlisle, chief marketing officer and founding team member at HyperDraft, a legal automation platform that helps legal departments and corporations digitize legacy documentation processes with AI-powered document and workflow automation solutions. Ashley was a corporate attorney at Goodwin when she met HyperDraft founder Tony Thai—a prior guest on the podcast—and decided to join him and help build the startup. As CMO, she shares her passion for making the legal profession more enjoyable and sustainable with modern technology. In today’s conversation, Ashley talks about generative AI’s recent impact on legal innovation efforts, deciding to be a lawyer when she was in fifth grade, what she learned as a Big Law associate at Kirkland and Goodwin, and the challenges of legal marketing.

Our guest this week is a leading voice on the future of legal education and law practice. Andrew Perlman is Dean at Suffolk University Law School, and has been a professor there since 2007. Before entering academia, Dean Perlman was a litigator with a lifelong fascination with innovation and technology. He has served several important functions in the American Bar Association, and was recently appointed to serve on the Advisory Council of the ABA Task Force on the Law and Artificial Intelligence. Dean Perlman has also been involved in various national and local reform efforts—from police practices and access to justice, to developing alternate paths to law school and bar admission. He has served as a member of the Content Scope Committee of the National Conference of Bar Examiners, which helped to identify content for the next generation of the bar exam. Additionally, he has written numerous articles on professional responsibility and legal innovation, and he has served as a presenter or panelist at more than 100 academic, judicial, and other professional programs. Today, Dean Perlman talks about how his passion for innovation started with a Commodore 64, the history and culture of Suffolk, helping law students embrace generative AI, and updating the bar exam.

Today we are joined by Flo Nicolas, a self-described “nonboring lawyer.” Flo is co-founder and chief operating officer at DEI Directive, a technology company helping organizations shape the future of work through inclusive and innovative practices. Flo began her career as legal counsel at various law firms and companies. She then worked in the telecommunications industry for several years. Later, Flo had the opportunity to join How to Contract, a training and development resource for lawyers. There she served as Chief Growth and Community Officer and hosted Contract Tech Showcase, a video series aimed at educating people on legal tech. Flo went on to create two local TV shows, Get Tech Smart and Get Resource Smart, which she also directs, produces, and hosts. These programs shine a light on New Hampshire’s tech startup community and organizations that provide vital resources to residents in need. In 2023, Flo was named one of New Hampshire Business Review’s “Outstanding Women in Business” and won Blaze Group’s Best In Business Award for “Best in Tech & Web3.” In our discussion, Flo talks about what organizations should measure in their DEI initiatives, the ways that law firms can leverage technology to foster diversity, her passion for negotiation, and how she developed her social media skills.

This week, we speak with Anusia Gillespie, Chief Strategy Officer at SkillBurst Interactive, a company providing on-demand learning to Am Law 200 firms, global legal organizations, and public-sector agencies, among other clients. Anusia has both an MBA and JD from Boston College, and has worked in various functions throughout the legal ecosystem—law firm practice, academia at Harvard Law School Executive Education, law firm business as the first Head of Innovation at Eversheds Sutherland, and in-house service transformation at the law company UnitedLex. At SkillBurst Interactive, Anusia is responsible for the expansion of digital training and upskilling in order to help the global legal industry thrive as technology continues to evolve. Additionally, Anusia has received the Fastcase 50 Award for being a visionary and an influencer in the legal industry. Today, Anusia discusses making the decision to pursue business, the benefits of not having a defined job description, the common thread of her career, and how law firms should approach talent development.