Notice That

What happens when therapy stops being about techniques — and starts becoming about you? In this deeply reflective episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen are joined by therapist and trainer Jessica Downs for an intimate conversation exploring the inner life of therapists, professional identity, and the personal work that inevitably emerges beneath clinical practice. Together, they explore the hidden motivations that draw people into helping professions, the illusion of the “next training” as a solution to therapeutic stuckness, and the moment many therapists encounter when professional development turns into personal reckoning. This episode moves beyond theory into experience, as Jessica guides a live experiential exercise inviting listeners to connect with younger parts of themselves — demonstrating how EMDR principles, ego state work, and imagination can foster integration and self-compassion. Themes explored include: This conversation is slower, more inward, and intentionally reflective — an invitation to pause, notice, and reconnect with the parts of yourself that brought you into this work in the first place. In This Episode, We Discuss About Our Guest — Jessica Downs Jessica Downs is a trauma therapist, EMDR clinician, and co-founder of Iris Training Collective. Her work integrates EMDR, ego state approaches, symbolism, and depth psychology to help therapists reconnect with authenticity and wholeness in both personal and professional development. Resources & Links Iris Training CollectiveLive Well Counseling Center (Grand Junction, CO) See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What if resilience isn’t about “bouncing back,” but about the brain’s ongoing ability to adapt—moment by moment, across a lifetime? In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen are joined by Laurel O’Neal Thornton, EMDR clinician, consultant, and educator, for a rich conversation on the neuroscience of resilience and what it actually looks like in EMDR therapy. Drawing from neuroscience, EMDR, and years of clinical experience, Laurel reframes resilience as an innate human capacity—one that exists even in the presence of trauma, depression, neurodivergence, and chronic stress. Together, we explore how shame disrupts resilience, why meaning-making matters, and how EMDR can foster regulation, integration, and adaptability without chasing perfection or symptom elimination. This episode is especially resonant for clinicians working with complex trauma, neurodivergent clients, chronic depression, or anyone feeling stuck in rigid models of “healing.” ✨ In This Episode, We Explore: adaptationplasticity, regulation, and integrationshame 🧩 Key Takeaways for Clinicians beforeglitching systems reintegrate 👩‍🏫 About Our Guest Laurel O’Neal Thornton is an EMDR clinician, consultant, educator, and practice owner who specializes in the neuroscience of trauma, resilience, and neurodivergence. She trains and consults clinicians internationally and is passionate about helping therapists integrate neuroscience in ways that are practical, humane, and deeply respectful of the client’s nervous system. Learn more about Laurel’s work at Whole Brain Solutions See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of Notice That, we dive into one of the most avoided—and most essential—topics in mental health: sex, pleasure, and sexual health. We’re joined by Cassie Krajewski, LCSW, AASECT-certified sex therapist, EMDRIA Approved Consultant, and co-founder of Iris Training Collective. Cassie brings a deeply integrative lens to sexuality—one that moves far beyond technique and into conceptualization, embodiment, and healing. Together, we explore how sexual health is not a “specialty concern,” but a core dimension of human wellness—and how EMDR therapy offers a powerful, attuned framework for addressing sexual shame, desire, pleasure, and trauma. In this conversation, we explore: sexual health is a birthrightpleasure as a healing mechanismEMDR case conceptualizationtheir ownThis episode is an invitation—to therapists and humans alike—to pause, notice, and gently question the stories we’ve inherited about sexuality… and to consider what healing might look like if pleasure were allowed back into the room. Free Resources on Cassie's website at inneratlastherapy.com See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

EMDR for Couples: Healing Together Through Simultaneous Processing A Conversation with Arilda Surridge, LMFT What happens when EMDR moves beyond the individual—and into the relationship itself? In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen sit down with Arilda Surridge, LMFT, author and EMDR clinician, to explore how EMDR can be ethically, safely, and powerfully integrated into couples therapy. Arilda shares a clear, grounded framework for working with two nervous systems in the room—without deviating from EMDR fidelity—and offers concrete clinical examples that bring this work to life. This conversation goes far beyond theory. Together, we walk through: isis notsimultaneous EMDR reprocessingArilda also shares clinical wisdom from her work with couples navigating car accidents, attachment injuries, guilt and shame, trust ruptures, and relational enactments—highlighting how EMDR can help partners move from reactivity to empathy. This episode is especially valuable for: betweenAbout the Guest Arilda Surridge, LMFT is a licensed marriage and family therapist, EMDR clinician, and the owner of Wellness Counseling Inc. She specializes in integrating EMDR into couples therapy while maintaining fidelity to the eight-phase protocol. Arilda is the author of a practical, clinician-focused book on EMDR for couples and offers professional trainings on this emerging area of practice. Find out more about her practice here: https://wellnesscounselinginc.com/about/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this special “take your learner hat off” episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen sit down with Jennifer Ann Counseling—EMDR therapist and comedy content creator—for a playful, honest conversation about being a therapist and a human. This episode isn’t about teaching a specific technique. It’s about humor, authenticity, and why laughter belongs alongside depth in trauma work. We talk about how Jennifer’s platform grew, what it’s like navigating social media as a therapist, handling negative comments, and why being real often connects more than being polished. We also explore EMDR in everyday practice—ritual, intention, parts work, and the familiar client experience of “I don’t know why this works… but it does.” Connect with Jennifer Ann Counseling Instagram / TikTok: @JenniferAnnCounseling Free resources available via her bio If this episode resonates, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a colleague who needs a reminder that therapy can be human, playful, and deeply meaningful. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Jen and Bridger sit down with Dr. Arielle Schwartz—somatic psychologist, EMDR therapist, and author of EMDR Therapy and Somatic Psychology—to explore what really happens when EMDR and body-based work are woven together in the therapy room. Together, they dive into: body scanand“I don’t feel anything in my body”“golden nugget practice” Arielle also shares about her Somatic EMDR trainings through BodyLab, her therapist retreats in Sedona and Costa Rica, and her Beyond Trauma nervous system care retreats, including an immersive experience in South Africa that combines yoga, nervous system education, and observing animals in the wild. You’ll hear practical language, case examples, and flexible ways to honor EMDR’s structure while staying deeply relational, embodied, and responsive to the nervous system in front of you. Learn more about Dr. Arielle Schwartz: resilienceinformedtherapy.comdrarielleschwartz.com Check out her card deck that integrates nature photography with quotes from The Post-Traumatic Growth Guidebook—a powerful tool for helping clients locate themselves in their healing process and set intentions for EMDR and somatic work. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen sit down with neurofeedback expert Leigh Povia, LCSW, RPT, BCN, founder of Center for Dynamic Growth, to explore how neurofeedback can strengthen, support, and accelerate trauma therapy. Together, they discuss: actually isLeigh shares candidly about her own learning curve, what it’s like to bring neurofeedback into an EMDR practice, and how both modalities can work in harmony rather than competition. If you’ve ever wondered whether neurofeedback could strengthen your EMDR work, this episode is a rich and relatable introduction. Resources Mentioned: Demystifying NeurofeedbackCenterForDynamicGrowth.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, we wrap up our series on working memory theory in EMDR by sitting down with Sander, co-founder of WeMind—a digital platform designed to optimize bilateral stimulation, track real-time client engagement, and bring advanced working memory taxation into both virtual and in-person EMDR sessions. We explore: This episode features conversation only—the demonstration portion appears exclusively on YouTube. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Jen and Bridger finally sit down to share stories and reflections from the 2024 EMDRIA Conference — a few weeks (or months?) later than planned. From early-morning flights and beachside content shoots to laughter-filled dinners and deep professional reflections, this episode captures the whirlwind of being presenters, exhibitors, and community builders all at once. They talk candidly about what it was like to present Enactment-Focused EMDR for the first time, the energy of meeting listeners face-to-face, and their behind-the-scenes take on the polarizing buzz around EMDR 2.0. It’s part travelogue, part professional reflection, and all the reasons this work matters. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, Bridger and Jen sit down with David Polidi, Bruce Hersey (Syzygy Institute), and Peggy Kolodny (Art Therapy Collective) to explore the forthcoming anthology IFS-Informed EMDR. Together, they unpack how EMDR’s eight phases can be enriched—not replaced—by Internal Family Systems (IFS), art therapy, and Jungian active imagination. You’ll hear: the target as a partprotectors vs. exilesPhase 2.5 / Discoveryart-making and active imagination“A Window and a Mirror”Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP)This conversation is both practical and philosophical—an invitation to deepen precision, creativity, and compassion in trauma therapy. Preorder the book: IFS-Informed EMDR: Creative and Collaborative Approaches on Amazon Support the show: patreon.com/thinkbeyondhealing Trainings & consults: connectbeyondhealing.com → Trainings tab Follow: @Notice_That_Podcast See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Mosaic Enneagram (Limited Series) A five-part companion to a six-month consultation cohort for therapists, this series reimagines the Enneagram as a living mosaic across the head, heart, and gut. Grounded in the Nurtured Nature Personality Framework (NNPF), we explore how agency, bonding, and certainty shape our strategies for belonging and becoming. Each episode blends story and theory—moving from personal mistyping and “type rigidity” toward a more generous, triadic self-portrait. You’ll meet the Mosaic Discovery prompts, unpack tensions and coherence within your three centers, and end by crafting an honest self-narrative you can share with safe others. Whether you’re Enneagram-curious or clinically trained, come for language that honors complexity—and tools you can use right away. Ideal for: therapists, coaches, and reflective humans For more information, head over to our website. Series arc: Agency → Bonding → Certainty → Authentic Self-Narrative The Mosaic Enneagram reframes typology as a three-center mosaic (head/heart/gut) shaped by life in relationship. This episode sets the foundation: why single-type identity feels rigid, how “mosaics” increase nuance, and how the series will guide listeners toward an authentic self-narrative. Episode Thesis Personality makes the most sense when we track the interplay of agency (gut), bonding (heart), and certainty (head) across a lifetime—not as one fixed label but as a living pattern that can be named, tested, and refined in safe relationship. Segment-by-Segment Outline Welcome & Purpose of the SeriesFrom Pop Typology to Depth WorkPersonal Origin StoriesLimits of Single-Type ThinkingEnter the MosaicAgency (gut)Bonding (heart)Certainty (head)Lived Examples of ReframingHonest Self-Narrative as the GoalWhat’s Next & HomeworkSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

New EMDR therapists often feel a gap between basic training and confident, real-world practice. In this conversation, Carol Miles, LCSW-BACS (trainer, consultant, and leader in the South Louisiana EMDR community) joins us to unpack why clinicians drop off after training—and what actually keeps EMDR alive in agencies and private practice. We cover: five reasonsconfidence gaps, time/workload, organizational barriers (including insurance/90-minute sessions), cultural & ethical considerations,keeping skills freshrelationships, community, and consultationWeMind’s EMDR practice avatarsreal-world“yes-and” postureEMDR 2.0cultural humilityanti-racist practiceNew Orleans training on Oct 24–25, 2025 Whether you’re fresh from Part 2 or years into EMDR, this episode will help you practice with confidence, find (or build) the right community, and keep your skills both ethical and current. Guest: Carol Miles — trainer, consultant, and host of the South Louisiana EMDR Regional Network • https://carolmiles.com Don't forget to check out the training Carol mentioned with Ad de Jongh and Suzy Matthijssen, hosted in person in New Orleans with virtual seat options available. Head over to Carol's website for more details. Also, if you're interested in the training Jen talked about in the intro with Sarah Butler, check out the event page here: Understanding Intensive EMDR and use the promo code BEYOND55 for 20% off! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

EMDR 2.0: A Conversation with Suzy Matthijssen & Ad de Jongh Recorded live at the EMDRIA conference, Bridger and Jen sit down with the developers of EMDR 2.0, Suzy Matthijssen and Ad de Jongh. Together, they explore how intensive trauma treatment, working memory taxation, and reconsolidation theory are shaping the next generation of EMDR. From four-sessions-a-day protocols to online innovations born during COVID, this conversation brings cutting-edge clinical research into dialogue with the everyday realities of client care. Summary In this special conference episode of Notice That, Jen and Bridger interview Suzy Matthijssen and Ad de Jongh, two of the leading voices behind EMDR 2.0. The conversation moves between history, research, and practice, offering clinicians a front-row seat to the evolution of trauma treatment. Key Themes: Origins of Intensive Trauma TreatmentThe Science of EMDR 2.0ActivationTaxationMotivationReconsolidation vs. Suppressionblind-to-therapistflash-forwardRethinking StabilizationThe Future of EMDR This episode highlights how EMDR 2.0 builds on the original eight-phase protocol while integrating decades of research, pointing toward a future where trauma treatment is more efficient, intensive, and broadly applied. If you want to learn more about EMDR 2.0, head over to www.enhancingtraumatreatment.com See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen continue the Back to Basics series by exploring the ever-expanding landscape of EMDR protocols. Why are there so many? Do we really need a new protocol for every presentation, or are there deeper themes that connect them all? We discuss: standard 8-phase protocolthree-pronged approach (past, present, future)clinical creativityWhether you’re new to EMDR or a seasoned clinician, this episode will help you feel less overwhelmed by the “protocol overload” and more confident in your ability to adapt EMDR to your clients’ unique needs. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen reconnect after a summer hiatus, weaving personal updates with professional developments that have defined their recent months. Highlights include: Summer Life & New BeginningsBook DevelopmentThe Relational ThreadEnactment-Focused EMDRBringing it All Together Listeners will leave with a richer understanding of enactments, practical insight into relationally informed EMDR, and a peek at what’s to come in their training and writing projects. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What happens when EMDR and play therapy collide? In this episode, Bridger and Jen sit down with Christine Mark-Griffin—EMDR child therapist, trainer, and author of The EMDR Workbook for Kids—to explore the art and science of bringing EMDR to children and families. Together they unpack the power of play as a language for healing, how to work with parents as co-regulators, and why case conceptualization is key for working with kids in ongoing trauma. From Roblox as a safe place to the sacred vulnerability of a child pointing to a doll, this conversation invites therapists to join the world of the child—rather than asking the child to join ours. Whether you’re new to working with kids or ready to deepen your practice, Christine’s insights will leave you inspired to bring more creativity and compassion into your EMDR work. 🎧 Listen now to discover why Christine calls EMDR a superpower for kids—and why we desperately need more EMDR child therapists in the world. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Why Does EMDR Work? A Dive into Network Neuroscience and the Brain’s Healing Potential Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) has transformed trauma therapy, but an age-old question lingers: How does it actually work? For decades, the EMDR community has debated this question. Early theories focused on specific brain structures—the hippocampus for memory, the amygdala for fear, the prefrontal cortex for executive control. This modular perspective helped us make sense of a complex process. But neuroscience has evolved, and so has our understanding. In Episode 2 of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Bridger Falkenstien and Jen Savage explore a paradigm shift—from modular to network neuroscience—and how this broader lens reshapes the way we think about trauma, healing, and EMDR. From Modules to Networks: A Shift in Understanding the Brain Traditionally, neuroscience taught us that individual brain regions had specific jobs. The amygdala processes fear. The hippocampus handles memory. The prefrontal cortex regulates impulses. This modular view isn’t wrong—it’s just incomplete. In reality, the brain functions as a dynamic, interconnected system of networks. Modern neuroscience shows us that even when one area specializes in a task, it does so within a web of relationships. Trauma doesn’t just impact a single region; it disrupts the collaboration between networks. This is where network neuroscience comes in. Instead of asking which part of the brain?, we ask: Which networks are interacting?How are they integrating—or failing to integrate—under stress?How does EMDR facilitate re-integration?Meet the Big Three: Core Brain Networks in Trauma and Healing Research in network neuroscience highlights three large-scale networks that play a crucial role in both trauma and recovery: 1. Salience Network (SN) FunctionTrauma ImpactIn EMDR2. Default Mode Network (DMN) FunctionTrauma ImpactIn EMDR3. Central Executive Network (CEN) FunctionTrauma ImpactIn EMDRThese networks don’t operate in isolation—they’re in constant conversation. Trauma disrupts that conversation, leading to disintegration. Healing requires restoring their collaborative flow. How EMDR Works in the Brain: Beyond the Protocol During EMDR, when a traumatic memory is activated (Phase 3) and bilateral stimulation (BLS) is applied, something remarkable happens: The SN flags the traumatic memory as salientThe DMN pulls up self-referential meaningThe CEN is invited back onlineThis isn’t just a mechanical process. It’s a forced redistribution of cognitive resources that breaks the brain out of its trauma-locked loop. As Bridger explains: “It’s like unpacking an avalanche—slowly taking out the debris so the mountain can reorganize.” The goal isn’t just to desensitize distress. It’s to help the networks regain their natural flow—so that the body and mind no longer behave as if the trauma is still happening. The Role of Working Memory Theory Working Memory Theory suggests that when we overload the brain’s working memory—by recalling the traumatic memory while engaging in a second task like BLS—the vividness and emotional charge of the memory fade. This theory helps explain why EMDR works, but it’s not the whole story. StrengthLimitationThis is why Beyond Healing integrates working memory theory within a larger, network-based, relational perspective. Why Therapists Should Care About Neuroscience Some may wonder: Why bother with all this neuroscience? Isn’t it enough to follow the EMDR protocol? Here’s why it matters: ✅ Understanding networks builds confidence in the method. ✅ It empowers therapists to adjust their interventions with intention. ✅ It helps clinicians see why attunement and resourcing aren’t optional—they’re essential to reintegration. As Savage reflects in the episode: “This shifts us from memorizing a protocol to creatively, relationally helping clients heal.” Key Takeaways for Clinicians EMDR works by regulating relationships...

EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) has transformed the way clinicians approach trauma. But what exactly makes it so effective? Is it the bilateral stimulation? The eight-phase protocol? Or is there something deeper at play in the brain? In this blog post, we unpack one of the leading theories behind EMDR’s effectiveness: working memory taxation. Drawing from neuroscience, clinical research, and therapist experience, we explore how EMDR works by engaging specific brain systems and redistributing attention and memory resources. This post is ideal for clinicians, students, and curious learners who want to understand the science behind EMDR in clear, accessible terms. What is Working Memory, and Why Does It Matter in Trauma Therapy? Working memory is your brain's ability to hold and manipulate information over short periods of time. It’s the mental workspace where you solve problems, remember a phone number long enough to dial it, or pay attention while taking notes. In the context of trauma, working memory becomes critical because: This is the heart of working memory theory in EMDR: if a client holds a traumatic image in mind while simultaneously completing a working memory task (like tracking a moving object), the emotional vividness of the memory is reduced. "It’s not just distraction—it’s reconsolidation. You’re using one part of the brain to loosen the grip of another." Research supports this. Studies by Van den Hout, Engelhard, and others (2012) show that taxing working memory reduces the emotional intensity and vividness of traumatic memories. Understanding the Brain: From Modules to Networks Early neuroscience often focused on modular thinking: While useful, this model doesn’t explain why trauma affects everything at once. Enter network neuroscience, a more recent and comprehensive model. Instead of isolated parts, brain functions are distributed across large-scale systems called intrinsic connectivity networks. These networks regulate everything from thought and memory to emotion and attention. Among the most important are: Default Mode Network (DMN)Salience Network (SN)Central Executive Network (CEN)When trauma occurs, these networks lose synchrony. Clients may: What EMDR Is Doing in the Brain During EMDR, when a distressing memory is activated: Salience NetworkDefault Mode NetworkCentral Executive NetworkDual attention tasks, such as bilateral stimulation, tax the CEN, anchoring the client in the present moment. This reduces the cognitive resources available to the DMN, weakening the emotional grip of the memory. Meanwhile, the SN helps orchestrate the shift between past and present. "The SN becomes the conductor, coordinating two orchestras: past (DMN) and present (CEN)." Memory Reconsolidation in EMDR Neuroscience shows that memories are not fixed. According to Nader et al. (2000), a memory becomes labile (changeable) when it is reactivated. If, during that reactivation, new information is introduced, the memory can be reconsolidated in a less distressing form. EMDR leverages this by: It’s not that the memory disappears. It’s that the brain knows how to relate to it differently. Critiquing Working Memory Theory: What It Gets Right and What It Misses What It Gets Right: What It Misses: meaning"The working memory load softens the emotional punch, but it’s the network reconnection—guided by safety and co-regulation—that allows transformation." Clinical Takeaways: How to Use This Understanding in Practice When you slow down and attune to your clientWhen you invite parts to speakWhen you use BLS while grounding By working relationally with the client, you’re helping the brain do what it was always meant to do: integrate. Want More? large-scale brain systemshow EMDR creates reconnection across networksAI-supported EMDREMDR 2.0 Further Reading: Journal of Experimental Psychopathology.Nature.The Neurophysiology of EMDR and the Three Core Networks.The Developing Mind: How...

What If the Therapist Was the Most Powerful Intervention in EMDR? Reclaiming the Human Thread in Trauma Therapy In the world of EMDR therapy, conversations about techniques, protocols, and procedures often dominate the training space. But what if something even more powerful has been quietly present all along? What if the most transformative tool in EMDR isn’t the protocol—it’s the presence of the therapist? In a recent episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, we sat down with Dana Carretta Stein—EMDR therapist, consultant, and creator of @the_emdr_coach—to talk about something we believe is foundational but too often overlooked: the humanness of the therapist. What started as a conversation about social media quickly became a deep dive into identity, presence, and the profound responsibility we carry as healing professionals. Together, we explored the tension between objectivity and authenticity, protocol and personhood—and how returning to our full humanity may be the very thing that deepens healing for everyone in the room. The Therapist Is Not a Blank Slate Why Authenticity Isn’t a Liability From the earliest days of graduate training, many of us were taught to strive for neutrality. Keep your personal life out of the room. Don’t display family photos. Don’t self-disclose. Don’t “do therapy on your friends.” While some of this advice is meant to protect boundaries, it also sends a subtler message: your full self does not belong here. Dana, a deeply relational therapist and group practice owner, pushes back on that message with both clarity and warmth. She shares openly about the exhaustion of compartmentalization and the healing power of being “unavoidably authentic” in the therapy room. “Clients don’t need a perfect therapist,” Dana reminds us. “They need a human one.” This doesn’t mean we flood the space with our stories or blur boundaries. It means we let ourselves be present—not as clinical instruments, but as nervous systems, as parents, as people with real emotions, histories, and insight. Intersubjectivity Is Powerful—And Necessary Relational Healing Requires a Relational Presence One of the core themes of this episode is the reclaiming of intersubjectivity—the idea that therapy is not just something we do to a client, but something we co-create with them. The standard EMDR model often emphasizes staying out of the way, trusting the protocol, and avoiding contamination of the client’s process. But what happens when we over-apply that detachment? What do we lose when we forget that transformation often happens between us, not just within them? We explore this together by naming what we see in our own work: Instead, we offer a vision of EMDR that is alive with presence. One where therapist and client are both brave enough to be real. Countertransference Isn’t the Problem—Disconnection Is Why Your “Stuff” Belongs in the Room (with Reflection) Dana names something many of us intuitively feel but rarely say: the therapist’s unresolved material will show up in the work. The question is not whether it appears, but whether we recognize it, reflect on it, and take care of it somewhere outside the session. In this episode, we talk about the difference between: Bridger names this beautifully: “What brought us into this field is often the same strategy we re-enact during the work itself.” Without awareness, this strategy can hijack the process. But with reflection, it becomes a strength—a superpower, as Dana says. Human First, Then Therapist Why Presence Is the Foundation of Conceptualization When Dana trains therapists in her practice, she begins with one simple phrase: “Human first. Then be a therapist.” This isn't just good advice for preventing burnout. It’s a core principle of case conceptualization. The more connected we are to our own internal world, the more intuitively and compassionately we can understand our clients. From this lens, the therapist’s body isn’t a neutral container—it’s an...

“To be a culturally competent therapist is to be a human first—curious, aware, humble, and willing to grow.” In this powerful episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Jen Savage sits down with EMDR therapist, author, and cultural competence advocate Mark Nickerson, LICSW for a rich and timely conversation about what it really means to bring cultural responsiveness into our clinical work. This episode invites clinicians to think beyond checkboxes and intake forms—and to reflect on how their personal stories, social identities, and cultural histories shape the therapy they provide. Together, Jen and Mark explore how EMDR can help process both internalized oppression and social bias, and how the work of healing requires an ongoing willingness to look inward. “Cultural humility isn’t an add-on—it’s at the heart of any real change.” — Mark Nickerson, LICSW Why This Conversation Matters Therapists often long to be affirming, inclusive, and aware—but aren’t sure where to begin. Mark’s insights offer both practical steps and deep philosophical grounding. His perspective is shaped by decades of clinical work, social advocacy, and a commitment to human rights. He shares stories from early workshops where EMDR was used to process two core themes: being excluded or discriminated againstholding bias or participating in exclusionIn both cases, EMDR offered clarity, healing, and increased self-awareness—making space for deeper empathy and greater readiness to grow. Featured Topics: About the Book Mark is the editor and contributing author of the seminal book Cultural Competence and Healing Culturally Based Trauma with EMDR Therapy (2nd ed., 2023). Spanning more than 400 pages, the book includes seven chapters by Mark and 20 more by authors with diverse identities, backgrounds, and clinical expertise. It addresses racial trauma, immigration and asylum seeking, social class, systemic oppression, and cultural adaptations of EMDR around the world. Whether you read it cover-to-cover or use it as a chapter-by-chapter resource, it’s an essential tool for therapists seeking to deepen their work. 📘 Learn more about the book and Mark’s work at: markinickerson.com Want to Go Even Deeper? If this conversation stirred something in you—if you’re beginning to ask how your own story shows up in the therapy room—consider exploring the Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP) framework. SIP isn’t a replacement for EMDR. It’s a lens that helps therapists explore the worldview they bring into their work. It asks: Why do I respond this way in session?What does safety mean to me?What am I unconsciously avoiding?SIP helps therapists do their own work—by mapping how our nervous systems, identities, and histories shape our therapeutic presence. 📥 Want to explore it for yourself? Comment “mirror” on our Instagram page or visit connectbeyondhealing.com and search “SIP” to receive a free PDF chapter on the SIP model. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.