EXALT Podcast

In this episode we are joined by Marketta Vuola and Zo Randriamaro. Marketta is a project researcher from the TreesForDev project leading the work package on Madagascar. Zo works for the Research and Support Center for Development Alternatives-Indian Ocean (RSCDA-IO) / Centre de Recherches et d’Appui pour les Alternatives de Développement-Océan Indien (CRAAD-OI). The RSCDA-IO / CRAAD-OI, which is a pan-African, non-profit organization. “Its mission is to promote sustainable development alternatives that are centered on the realization of human rights and based on the principles of gender equality, social, economic and ecological justice.” Marketta and Zo give us insight into the overarching context in Madagascar and share why it is one of the case study countries in the TreesForDev project. We discuss some of the disconnects between ecological restoration and conservation and also some of the ways that organizations tasked to help, do not always improve livelihood prospects on the ground. Want to learn more about the TreesForDev project? www.treesfordev.fi Want to learn more about our collaborator in Madagascar, Centre de Recherches et d’Appui pour les Alternatives de Développement-Océan Indien (CRAAD-OI)? (In French) https://ccfd-terresolidaire.org/partenaire/centre-de-recherches-et-dappui-pour-les-alternatives-de-developpement-ocean-indien-craad-oi/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we are really excited to have a conversation with Rubén Vezzoni, who is one of our University of Helsinki colleagues from the Doctoral Programme in Political, Soci­etal and Regional Change. His work looks at different aspects of the political economy of the EU’s green transition, with case studies on solar panels, hydrogen, and post-growth agri-food systems. In our conversation we focused in on “green” hydrogen and whether in practice it can live up to the grand narratives that are told about it, or whether it is just a story that obscure what is really going on. Rubén gives us some insights into the Finnish context and how the externalities from the consumption here are exported to other places, for example in the global South. The amount of stuff that we consume continues to increase, even under the auspices of green transition. To be able to exist these new technologies require more materials, more input, and more extraction. We look at the lock-ins and path dependencies and especially the drivers of relentless capital expansion and accumulation. Resources mentioned during the episode: The Social Limits to Growth by Fred Hirsch https://www.routledge.com/Social-Limits-to-Growth/Hirsch/p/book/9780415119580 Interested to read more of Rubén’s work? “The Finnish Bioeconomy Beyond Growth” (this is the report that is discussed during the episode) http://urn.fi/URN:ISBN:978-952-380-817-1 “How “clean” is the hydrogen economy? Tracing the connections between hydrogen and fossil fuels” https://doi.org/10.1016/j.eist.2024.100817 “Joining the ideational and the material: transforming food systems toward radical food democracy” https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsufs.2024.1307759/full Check out his University profile here https://researchportal.helsinki.fi/en/persons/ruben-vezzoni --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month on the EXALT podcast we are super excited to be joined by Xander Dunlap for a precedent-breaking third conversation. Xander is a research fellow at the Institute for Global Sustainability at Boston University and a visiting research fellow at Global Develop Studies at University of Helsinki. Xander talks to us about his new book from Pluto Press, “This System is Killing Us: Land Grabbing, the Green Economy and Ecological Conflict.” This book looks at the last 10 years of work Xander has done in the thick of environmental conflict. Xander unpacks the themes of the book for us and gives us insight into the concept of permanent ecological conflict. Token forms of activism and feel-good activities, which are not unfamiliar to academic circles, are not enough to think past the existing frameworks and modalities that people are living under. This book is an intervention against the mainstreaming or normalization of ecological crises. This conversation covers so many different aspects of the book and Xander’s work. Join us for this impactful insight into why and how “This System is Killing Us.” Check out Xander’s new book https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745348827/this-system-is-killing-us/ Check out Xander’s profiles at Boston University https://www.bu.edu/igs/profile/alexander-dunlap/ and University of Helsinki https://researchportal.helsinki.fi/en/persons/alexander-dunlap Find Xander on X (formerly Twitter) @DrX_ADunlap --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

In this episode we are joined by Ossi Ollinaho and Máriam Abbas. Ossi is a project researcher from the TreesForDev project leading the work package that is looking at Mozambique. Máriam is a researcher from Observatório do Meio Rural (OMR), in Mozambique, who is coordinating the research line “Environment and Rural Areas”, which explores, among other topics, the impacts of climate change on agriculture, the causes of deforestation and mainstreaming biodiversity in the agricultural sector. Ossi and Máriam give us insight into why Mozambique is one of the case study countries in the TreesForDev project. Agriculture accounts for approximately 25 percent of the GDP of the country. Thus, there is a large rural population, and the forest has a very important role in the rural populations’ livelihood prospects. They reflect on the economic system and the underlying extractivist logics that are often incompatible with improving local conditions. Want to learn more about the TreesForDev project? www.treesfordev.fi Want to learn more about our collaborator in Mozambique, Observatório do Meio Rural (OMR)? www.omrmz.org Want to learn more about Siemenpuu Foundation’s work in Mozambique? https://siemenpuu.org/en/countries/mozambique/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

Welcome to the debut episode of the limited series TreesForDev project podcast. In this episode we are honored to be joined by the project principal investigators, Maria Ehrnström-Fuentes and Markus Kröger, from Hanken School of Economics and University of Helsinki respectively. In this conversation, they introduce us to who they are and what types of questions are being investigated in the TreesForDev project. This project examines the dynamics of ecological restoration involving tree planting schemes. Planting trees is a popular and “easy” way to try to restore ecosystems and mitigate climate change. Our project examines the socio-ecological/economic impacts of tree planting in the global South. The project is funded by the Ministry for Foreign Affairs through the Develop2 funding instrument, which is managed in conjunction with the Research Council of Finland. The TreesForDev will run until the end of 2026 and includes research in Finland, Madagascar, Ethiopia, Mozambique, and Brazil. Want to learn more about the TreesForDev Project? Visit our website at www.treesfordev.fi Want to learn more about Maria’s work? Please visit her research profile https://www.hanken.fi/en/person/maria-ehrnstrom-fuentes Want to learn more about Markus’ work? Please visit his research profile https://www.helsinki.fi/en/about-us/people/people-finder/markus-kroger-9091436 This limited series podcast is made possible through funding from the Helsinki Institute of Sustainability Sustainability Science (HELSUS) at the University of Helsinki. If you would like to learn more about HELSUS, please check out their webpage: https://www.helsinki.fi/en/helsinki-institute-sustainability-science --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we are overjoyed to be joined by fellow University of Helsinki Global Development Studies doctoral researcher, Martta Kaskien. Martta is currently working with the project Citizenship Utopias in the Global South: The Pursuit of Transformative Alternatives in Times of Civic Disillusionment. Her research is centred on feminist activist narratives in Kenya using ethnographic methods. She gives us insight into her research trajectory and how she got to this topic in this context, and how the COVID-19 pandemic impacted her fieldwork. She gives us insight into how the social pressure from anti-feminist political and public spaces, especially on social media, impact feminist activism and activists. However, even in the face of this pressure she has noticed the prevalence of curated spaces on social media that are created by the feminist activists themselves. These spaces are focused on community building and represent safe spaces for radical feminists to express themselves in the way they wish. These spaces are a form of an everyday utopia and allows these feminists to live life as they would like to today and how they would like to live in the real world in the future. If you would like to know more about Martta’s research work, please check out her University profile https://researchportal.helsinki.fi/en/persons/martta-kaskinen If you would like to read more about the Citizenship Utopias Project https://blogs.helsinki.fi/citizenshiputopias/ Want to check out Eija Ranta’s episode that we refer to? Here is a direct links for your convenience. Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/zw/podcast/eija-ranta-when-indigenous-movements-lead-governments/id1499621252?i=1000622609915 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1XUlXgKRWFSUj4jxh6yz3a?si=LbXpbC20SKOccxJoPOLGGw --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we have a deeply interesting conversation with social anthropologist, Dr. Avi KBH, who is a Postdoctoral Researcher in the project Animal Crosslocations, which is resourced through the Resilient and Just Systems (RESET) Network at University of Helsinki. We talked about his new project, “Mosquito Crosslocations and Participatory Evaluations of Mosquito Interventions,” and the trajectory that led him to be interested in these topics. In this conversation we think through the complex web of relationships inherent to multispecies interactions. In particular, he highlighted some of the compelling reasons why we need to shift some of our narratives related to the myriad beings we humans characterize as “pests”. Pests is in quotes because using this language casually brings its own sometimes (often) misguided perceptions and assumptions about the role the being in question plays within the wider web of life. If you would like to engage with Avi and learn more about the Animal Cross locations project, please visit his blog - https://blogs.helsinki.fi/avibetzh/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we were absolutely delighted to be joined by Joonatan Ala-Könni, for a super interesting conversation that connects natural sciences and extractivisms. Joonatan Ala-Könni is a doctoral researcher in Atmospheric Science at the Institute for Atmospheric and Earth System Research (INAR) at the University of Helsinki. Joonatan’s work is all about climate change and using insights gained from the processes of carbon binding in aquatic environments. The work looks at the physical world – in very basic terms the transport of matter and heat in environments that are water based. His field is called micro-meteorology, which is looking at ecosystems that are no larger than a few hundred meters at the very largest. In the sub-arctic lakes and rivers form a large percentage of the total surface area of the space, thus they become a quite important player in carbon binding. There is surprisingly little data on the role lakes have in binding this carbon. Join us for this conversation to learn more about a natural science view on climate change. If you are interested to know more about Joonatan and his work, please check out his university profile https://researchportal.helsinki.fi/en/persons/joonatan-ala-k%C3%B6nni --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

To round out 2023, we wanted to release a brief episode to celebrate (over) four years of the EXALT Podcast and give a sneak peak at some exciting new happenings in 2024! We apologize for not being able to get a full anniversary special to you this year. We have had a lot on our plates with our respective research, as well as some major (positive) life changes. However, we are excited to announce some upcoming projects which will be crossing over with the EXALT Podcast feed! Don’t worry! We will still be bringing you the EXALT Podcast you know and love each month, but with some limited series peppered in. We hope you will enjoy them! Thank you all so much for listening! We love doing the podcast and being able to have these conversations, and we wouldn’t be able to do it without you, the listeners. Whether you have been listening from the beginning, you’re just joining for the first time, or came in somewhere in between, we are grateful for you joining us each month! You can find out more about the TreesForDev project here: https://www.helsinki.fi/en/researchgroups/trees-for-development You can find out more about the New Directions in Development Studies and Sustainability project here: https://www.helsinki.fi/en/projects/new-directions-development-studies-and-sustainability --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we are ecstatic to bring you the second part of our conversation with the creators of From the Cubby. We are once again joined by the same wonderful trio of guests, Joe Spence, Nick Chamberlain, and Avi Betz-Heinemann. From the Cubby, is a three-part documentary film series, which draws on six years of ethnographic fieldwork in Canterbury, England. The first film follows Martin, a man who was sleeping rough on the streets of Canterbury as a tuberculosis outbreak was about to spread through the rough sleeper community. The Cubby was a makeshift refuge for Martin and Nick. If you have not listened to part 1, which was released in November 2023, we highly suggest that you start there as this is a continuing conversation. This conversation had a depth and breadth that rivaled our first conversation. Nick shares more of his on the ground experiences living on and off the streets in Canterbury. The subject matter is heady, but there is so much hope and humanity woven throughout the conversation. We hope that our listeners will enjoy the conclusion of this conversation as much as we did. If you are interested to learn more about the documentary film series From the Cubby and see the trailer, please check out their webpage https://fromthecubby.com/. If you would like to see the first film and are not able to go to one of the screenings, please send an email to fromthecubby@gmail.com and they can share a way to watch it online. If you are interested to learn more about Joe’s academic work, please check out his profile at University of Kent https://www.kent.ac.uk/anthropology-conservation/people/4064. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we were delighted to be joined by three amazing guests, Joe Spence, Nick Chamberlain, and Avi Betz-Heinemann (whose name you might recognize from last month’s episode). All three of our guests have been involved with the documentary film series From the Cubby, which draws on six years of ethnographic fieldwork in Canterbury, England. The film series draws its name from a makeshift encampment that was a geographical epicenter implicated in an outbreak of tuberculosis. This was a wide ranging and dynamic conversation; thus, we have decided to break it into two parts, part two will be released as our December 2023 episode. During our conversation our guests shared with us their firsthand perspective on the project and the series of events and threads that make the fabric of the story told through the project. As described by the film makers, “[this] is an extraordinary story, one that provides insights into lives on the brink, the challenges of conducting research with vulnerable populations, and a contribution to participatory and publicly engaged academia giving voice and visibility to people normally excluded from formal knowledge and film production.” We look at the actual events and tie them to some of the wider issues that affect vulnerable populations. If you are interested to learn more about the documentary film series From the Cubby and see the trailer, please check out their webpage https://fromthecubby.com/. If you would like to see the first film and are not able to go to one of the screenings, please send an email to fromthecubby@gmail.com and they can share a way to watch it online. If you are interested to learn more about Joe’s academic work, please check out his profile at University of Kent https://www.kent.ac.uk/anthropology-conservation/people/4064. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we were delighted to be joined by Niti Bhan, who is a part-time doctoral researcher focusing on trans-disciplinary innovation at Aalto University in the Department of Mechanical Engineering. Niti came to research after almost 30 years of situated practice. Niti specializes in human-centered design/innovation planning. This field asks question like, how can we understand people in their own lives, the way they live and operate as a starting point for design and innovation. In practice this means understanding the lived experience of people in place as a means to create a landscape of the operating environment within a product, service, or business model is introduced. This approach highlights that we cannot make the same kind of assumptions about people in different situated contexts. It is never just a product being introduced, but also how can it be paid for, how it would be distributed in place, and many other things that need to be taken into consideration before even starting to bring something to a particular market. AND this was just the beginning of our wide ranging and mind-expanding conversation! Check out Niti’s Aalto Profile here Niti Bhan — Aalto University's research portal If you are interested to learn more about Jan Chipchase’s work, check out his Ted Talk https://youtu.be/Qn2NR901NMY?si=E7TlvyvViiFo60gw --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we are happy to welcome Ossi Ollinaho, a lecturer in Global Development Studies at University of Helsinki, on the podcast. In the conversation, we talk with Ossi about his journey from studying math and physics, to a Doctorate in Industrial Engineering and Management, to the experiences and questions which brought him to work in Global Development Studies. We also dive into how transitions to agroforestry techniques can turn out good, bad, and ugly, as well as how the systemic concept of keeping "business as usual" is a seductive slide to catastrophe (and how people's daily lives can impact the system, even if we don't realize we can). You can find Ossi's University of Helsinki profile here: https://researchportal.helsinki.fi/en/persons/ossi-ollinaho Ossi's works mentioned: Ollinaho, O. I., Pedlowski, M., & Kröger, M. (2022). Toxic turn in Brazilian agriculture? The political economy of pesticide legalisation in post-2016 Brazil. Third World Quarterly. https://doi.org/10.1080/01436597.2022.2153031 Ollinaho, O., & Kröger, M. (2021). Agroforestry transitions: The good, the bad and the ugly. Journal of Rural Studies, 82, 210-221. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jrurstud.2021.01.016 Ollinaho, O. (2022). What is ‘business as usual’? Towards a theory of cumulative sociomaterial change. Globalizations. https://doi.org/10.1080/14747731.2022.2142013 Ollinaho, O. I. (2018). Virtualization of the life-world. Human Studies, 41(2), 193-209. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10746-017-9455-3 Other works mentioned Berger, P. L., & Luckmann, T. (1991). The social construction of reality: A treatise in the sociology of knowledge. Penguin Books. The International Alfred Schutz Circle for Phenomenology and Interpretive Social Science - https://www.schutzcircle.org/ *Note - apologies for the delay in the episode release! The episode was scheduled to launch on August 25, but for some reason the system did not release the episode. Unfortunately we have been really busy and it was only just now brought to our attention. Apologies again and we will be double checking in the future to make sure it launches on time! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we are thrilled to be joined by Eija Ranta, University Lecturer at University of Helsinki in Global Development Studies. Eija leads two Academy of Finland research projects, 'Social Justice and Raciality in Latin America’ (2021-2026) and 'Citizenship Utopias in the Global South: The Pursuit of Transformative Alternatives in Times of Disillusionment' (2019-2023). Eija’s current focus is on societal activism and particularly how people can live a good and decent life in the face of socio-political and environmental challenges. She shares with us how she got started working in Latin America and specifically with the Quechua Indigenous peoples of Bolivia. This is where she encountered the concept of Sumak kawsay, which translates from the Kichwa language into English as ‘good life’ or ‘life in harmony’. This concept also served to influence the Spanish concept of Buen Vivir or Vivir Buen. Eija traces out the political changes in Bolivia in relation to the adoption of Vivir Buen. We explore the tensions and contractions that exist in Bolivia through the lens of extractivism, often the on-the-ground practices are not in line with the espoused ideals. If you are interested in Eija’s projects and writing, please check out her University of Helsinki profile here. https://researchportal.helsinki.fi/en/persons/eija-ranta Our apologies in advance for some of the challenges, particularly with Sophia’s sound quality. Due to work, fieldwork, and family – we were on three different continents (and in 4 hemispheres!) during this recording. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we were honored to be joined by Toni Ruuska, who is a University Researcher and Adjunct Professor of Sustainable Economy at the University of Helsinki. His research focuses generally on alternatives to capitalism, agrarian political economy, and the skills of self-provisioning. In this captivating conversation, Toni lays out some of the issues with the perpetual growth model that is part and parcel of capitalist systems. Endless growth and accumulation are a nightmare; however, degrowth is not a silver bullet to solve the wicked problems present within the capitalist system. This is not to say that degrowth is not useful or hopeful, rather it is too early to really judge. Mentioned books and links: Degrowth Movement - https://degrowth.info/en The case for degrowth - https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+Case+for+Degrowth-p-9781509535620 Future is degrowth - https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/products/2620-the-future-is-degrowth Less is more - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/441772/less-is-more-by-jason-hickel/9781786091215 Degrowth & Strategy - https://mayflybooks.org/degrowth-strategy/ 9th International Degrowth Conference website - https://odrast.hr/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we go back to Zambia for an enlightening conversation with Kumbutso Phiri, a development specialist. Kumbutso works with a wide range of topics, but in this conversation, we explore the topic of street kids who live on the streets of Lusaka, Zambia’s capital city. Kumbutso gives us insight into the demographics and societal infrastructure of the street kid population. While the exact number of street kids is difficult to estimate due to a lack of effective ways to definitively count them, Kumbusto believes the number is rising rapidly. This is a generational problem with many babies being born onto the street. Join us for this deep dive into the problems of urbanization, neo liberalization, and wider global pressures that are pushing and pulling people to the streets. If you are interested to learn more check out, “Walking the Bowl: A True Story of Murder and Survival Among the Street Children of Lusaka” by Chris Lockhart, Daniel Mulilo Chama --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month on the podcast we are really excited to try something new…by revisiting something old! Christopher and I open the podcast with a short chat and some life updates. Then we turn our attention to one of the first EXALT podcasts, “Exploring the Pluriverse” featuring Maria Ehrnstrom-Fuentes, an associate professor at Hanken School of Business. In this amazing conversation she explores themes of decoloniality, degrowth, and reflections on what researchers do and raises questions about how we should do it! Hope you all enjoy revisiting this conversation as much as we did! If you want to find out more about about Maria and her work here is a link to her researcher profile and publication list. Sophia is now working as the coordinator for Sustainability Science Days, which is co-organized by University of Helsinki and Aalto University. This exciting conference will be taking place on May 23-26, 2023. It will be in-person in Helsinki and there is a limited hybrid programme available on Zoom. There is no charge for joining us online, however registration is required. For more information about the programme, or to register, please visit www.sustainabilitysciencedays.fi --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we are delighted to be joined by Patience Mususa from The Nordic Africa Institute. She is an anthropologist with a background in architecture working on mining and urbanization in Southern Africa. She is particularly interested in place and the ways in which people interact in the face of the large scale mining industry and the influence and ramifications of economic downturn and socio-economic transformation. In particular, she is interested in how space is produced, for example why we are so concerned with the idea of modernity and why we tend to use such energy intensive ways to produce place. She gave us insight into her research trajectory and how the different strands of her interests have come together. Part of her interest is rooted in the experience of growing up in a mining town in the Zambian Copperbelt in the height of corporate welfare industrialism and the ensuing changes stemming from the privatization of mining. Join us for this exciting conversation that gives insight into Zambian mining history, the changes that attend the modern era, and how sites of resource extraction are connected to areas of consumption through interlocking systems. If you are interested to learn more about Patience’s work, check out her academic profile (https://nai.uu.se/about-us/person/patience-mususa.html) Check out Patience’s book There Used to be Order: Life on the Copperbelt after the Privatisation of the Zambia Consolidated Copper MInes (University of Michigan Press) (https://www.press.umich.edu/9441587/there_used_to_be_order) Some of the resources mentioned during the episode: Expectations of Modernity by James Ferguson - Paperback - University of California Press (ucpress.edu) UW Press - : Red Gold of Africa: Copper in Precolonial History and Culture, Eugenia W. Herbert (wisc.edu) --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we are thrilled to be joined by University of Helsinki doctoral researcher Mariam Khawar. Mariam is in the Doctoral Programme in Political, Soci­etal and Regional Change, which is part of the Faculty of Social Sciences and is affiliated with Helsinki Centre for Global Political Economy. Mariam’s work focuses on Islamic economic philosophy, specifically through a Marxist lens. Her work is highly interdisciplinary drawing on feminist political economy, economics, and feminism in Islamic theology and philosophy. She is working toward filling in gaps in the theoretical materials in that discipline. This work started during her master’s studies at King’s College London, where she made an analysis of Islamic banks during the 2007 financial crisis. We discuss the role of research within global capitalist banking and how her research is not about banking and finance. Rather Mariam focuses on the philosophical aspects of Islamic economics. She interrogates questions like what constitutes economic agents within Islamic economic philosophy. Within the conversation Mariam reminds us to think outside the box and to always be boldly interdisciplinary in academic work. If you would like to follow Mariam’s work, check out her profile at University of Helsinki. Resources https://www.politico.eu/article/record-profits-big-oil-tax-hikes-war-ukraine-russia/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message

This month we are delighted to be joined by Barış Can Sever who is Ph.D. candidate at the Department of Sociology at Middle East Technical University, Ankara, Turkey. He is currently doing a 9-month research period at Global Development Studies at the University of Helsinki. Barış gives us an exciting insight into the agricultural geography in Turkey, including pressure from changing socio/ecological systems and the increasing dependency on imports. There have been dramatic changes in the country’s rural areas over the last 40 years, including the entrance of transnational corporations into the rural spaces and significant rural out migration. When analyzing the migration patterns, Barış is looking at more than just linear stories, but rather he looks at the relationality and overarching forces that reproduce injustices and inequality, which channels people into certain patterns. He gives us insight into the extractivist logics at play and what human scale agriculture could look like in the context of building a functioning and sustainable Anatolian countryside. Interested to check out more of Barış’ work? https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Baris-Can-Sever --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/exalt-initiative/message