WFA's Better Marketing Pod with David Wheldon

Growth doesn’t start with an ad. It starts where your product decisions meet real people. We sit down with Cheryl, newly named Global Marketer of the Year, to unpack how Grab scaled across Southeast Asia by turning marketing into a true commercial engine—where product, pricing, algorithms, and culture work in sync to earn trust and drive results. We chart the journey from a scrappy airport-ride promo to a system of problem-space teams that cross swim lanes by design. Cheryl explains why immersion days keep leaders close to riders and drivers, how fair pricing principles became part of brand architecture, and where consensus can quietly kill velocity. Her hiring lens is refreshingly direct: seek commercial fluency, data and insights mastery, and relentless curiosity; then give those people room to orchestrate product, economics, and operations around the customer. Sustainability emerges as strategy, not slogan. Inclusive design and driver programmes widen supply, improve safety, and boost retention, turning social good into measurable outcomes. As AI becomes the growth engine, we explore why marketers must move upstream—shaping ranking, matching, and pricing so algorithms reflect brand values rather than rewrite them. The result is a practical playbook for CMOs, product leaders, and founders who want marketing to integrate the business, not decorate it. If you care about customer experience, fair pricing, and building teams that ship impact, this conversation offers field-tested ideas you can use now. Subscribe and share with a colleague. About Cheryl Goh Cheryl Goh is Group VP of Marketing and Sustainability and Founding CMO at Grab and the 2025 Global Marketer of the Year. Hand-picked by founder Anthony Tan despite her product and business development background, she scaled MyTeksi from 2012 origins into Southeast Asia's leading superapp across eight markets. She leads the full ecosystem, including product marketing, communications, growth, loyalty P&L (Grab VIP, Unlimited, Coins), sustainability, and customer support, while building a talent pipeline that has placed several of Grab's country heads. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

In this episode we review a year of conversations with Frederique Covington Corbett, Marcus Collins, Ed Bell, Nicola Mendelsohn, Marcel Marcondes, Seth Godin, Leyal Eskin Yilmaz and Rory Sutherland. These conversations led to one clear truth: the best marketing is still about people. We pull together the sharpest lessons for CMOs and brand leaders, cutting through the AI noise to focus on conviction-led leadership, intelligent human connection, and simple ideas that change behaviour. You’ll hear why building AI capability and governance is urgent, but also why tech belongs in the back office while human creativity runs the front. We share how to connect customer insight to commercial reality, and why that shift turns marketing from a cost into a value engine. We dive into the channels where customers already live—messaging platforms—and explain how click-to-message journeys, verified utility updates, and AI agents on WhatsApp are transforming service and commerce globally. Real stories show the upside: faster response times, higher satisfaction, and scalable conversations that still feel personal. Then we move beyond tools to the psychology that makes any of it work. Technology amplifies an idea; it doesn’t replace one. The most effective work pairs clarity and emotional intelligence, proving that a simple, useful solution beats a flashy campaign when it solves a real problem. Finally, we tackle the mindset. Choose your customers and clients with care, because those choices define your future. Lead with conviction, not convenience, even when it costs you. Make space for practical magic, the creative leaps that reconcile contradictions the spreadsheet can’t. As we look ahead, think human creativity as the front office, technology as the back office, and AI as a force multiplier—not the point. If that resonates, follow the show and share this roundup with your team. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

The biggest wins in marketing rarely fit into neat dashboards. Rory Sutherland joins us to unpack why creativity is “fat-tailed,” how a few outlier ideas create the lion’s share of value, and why short-term incentives push teams to optimise what’s easy to count rather than what actually compounds. From “member since” on a card to names on Coke bottles, we dig into billion-dollar ideas that cost little to make but transform loyalty, fame, and lifetime value. David and Rory get honest about metrics and the bottlenecks they create. When every brand chases the same KPIs, platforms become toll roads and marketers pay rent for access. Rory argues for brand-specific measures that mirror your distinctive value, plus smarter routes to reach people without bidding wars, think influence, communities, and the “Cafe Nero” side door. They also contrast two economic worldviews: the tidy rational model that treats marketing as a cost, and the psychology-first approach that sees value as subjective, created in minds through service, design, and language. The conversation ranges from call centres as underestimated value engines to why family-owned firms often excel at brand building. David and Rory explore how an efficiency mindset blocks innovation by forcing either-or decisions, and how relational capitalism, trust over time, not transactional maximisation, builds resilient brands. The practical pivot: don’t just sell outputs; sell how you think. In an AI age, the durable advantage is reframing problems and resolving false trade-offs, turning contradictions into strengths. If you believe in magic, you’ll notice it, nurture it, and let it power growth. If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a colleague who needs a jolt of creative courage, and leave a quick review to help more marketers find us. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

In this episode of the Better Marketing Podcast with David Wheldon, Leyal Eskin Yilmaz, CMO of Europe, UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand for the Magnum Ice Cream Company, shares insights on building a new marketing organisation as the business separates from Unilever. Key points covered: Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

What happens when one of marketing's most influential thinkers shares his unfiltered wisdom about the state of our industry? Seth Godin joins the WFA Better Marketing Podcast to deliver profound insights that challenge conventional thinking about what makes marketing truly effective. Seth dismantles common misconceptions about marketing's purpose: "Marketing is about how we're going to tell a story that other people want to hear," he explains, emphasizing that great storytelling isn't an innate talent but a learnable skill developed through careful observation and adaptation. His pioneering concept of permission marketing, introduced decades ago, rings truer than ever in our attention-scarce digital landscape. The conversation explores the critical distinction between strategy and tactics that confounds many marketers. "A strategy is a philosophy of becoming. It's the hard work we do before the hard work," Seth explains. He contrasts enduring brands like Patagonia and Apple, whose core strategies have remained consistent for decades, with organizations that merely copy competitors in a tactical race to the bottom. Perhaps most powerfully, Seth reminds us that "when you pick your customers, you pick your future." This profound yet simple insight encourages marketers to cultivate relationships with clients who align with their values, even if that means walking away from those who don't. Ready to rethink your approach to marketing? Listen now for timeless wisdom that cuts through the noise and gets to the heart of what makes marketing truly matter. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on your preferred platform: https://bit.ly/41ZwqkF.

The marketing landscape is undergoing profound shifts, requiring marketers to rethink traditional approaches. At the forefront of this evolution stands Marcel Macondes, AB InBev's Global CMO and winner of the 2024 WFA Global Marketer of the Year award. His philosophy brings a refreshing clarity to how marketing should function today: as a bridge between consumers and business. Throughout this compelling conversation, Marcel talks about how AB InBev now owns eight of the world's ten most valuable beer brands. AB InBev's success stems not from treating marketing as a separate function but from deeply integrating consumer insights into business operations. "In the past, marketers would work to say, 'this is what we do, now let's convince consumers about it,'" Macondez explains. "Given how the world is evolving, our job has changed – we need a strong pulse on what's happening with consumers, then adjust how we work to serve them better." What sets truly exceptional marketing leaders apart? Marcel points to a pivotal career milestone: "The transition between following the agenda to driving the agenda." This shift from management to leadership creates the conditions for marketing to flourish as "the key architect of growth" within organizations. Through the "One ABI Way of Marketing" framework, developed over two years, AB InBev has systematized this approach while maintaining the agility to incorporate emerging trends and technologies. Perhaps most refreshingly, Marcel approaches innovation with balanced wisdom. Rather than viewing AI as disruptive, he embraces it as an enhancement: "AI is here to help us and support us." This exemplifies his guiding principle for marketing leaders: be very ambitious, but also very humble – pushing for excellence while remaining open to continuous learning in an increasingly complex landscape. Ready to transform your marketing approach? Start by deeply understanding both your consumers and your business, then build the bridge between them with creativity, consistency and an unwavering focus on delivering value. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on: -Apple: https://apple.co/3IHnh6Z -Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3ZvNpro -YouTube Music: https://bit.ly/47eQTTj -YouTube Video: https://bit.ly/4idYNB6

In this episode of the Better Marketing Podcast, Nicola Mendelsohn, Meta's Head of Global Business Group, shares insights on how Meta is transforming from a teenage platform to a mature business partner for advertisers with innovative tools, AI implementation and a renewed focus on effectiveness. From her early agency days to her pivotal role at Meta over the past 12 years, Mendelsohn brings a unique perspective that bridges creative thinking with technological innovation. Between Ray-Ban Meta smart glasses that translate languages in real-time and the revelation that messaging platforms are becoming the new frontier for brand-consumer relationships (with over 600 million daily messages between people and businesses), Mendelsohn paints a picture of marketing's near future that feels both exciting and tangible. To CMOs, Mendelsohn says the following: embrace messaging, leverage AI ethically and prepare for a world where every business will have AI agents representing their brand. The future isn't just coming — it's already here for those ready to seize it. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on: -Apple: https://apple.co/3IHnh6Z -Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3ZvNpro -YouTube Music: https://bit.ly/47eQTTj -YouTube Video: https://bit.ly/4idYNB6

What does it take to rebuild an airline brand after the devastating impact of a global pandemic? Ed Bell, General Manager Brand, Insights and Marketing Communications at Cathay Pacific, takes us behind the scenes of one of aviation's most remarkable recovery stories. Bell's journey from agency dynamo during China's economic boom to airline marketing leader offers a masterclass in resilience and strategic thinking. Having worked on iconic launches like the Motorola Razr and Beijing Olympics with Adidas, he brings a unique perspective on what truly drives consumer choice in premium markets. At the heart of Cathay Pacific's revival is a refreshingly straightforward philosophy: happy staff create happy customers, who in turn generate strong financial results. During the darkest days of the pandemic, when budgets disappeared and uncertainty reigned, the airline doubled down on celebrating their employees through "Cathay Stories" - showcasing extraordinary acts of dedication that maintained morale when it mattered most. Rather than competing through flashy amenities, Cathay embraces "human-centric design" - creating experiences that make passengers feel genuinely at home. This approach extends from their more residential-feeling lounges to communications that emphasize emotional connection rather than feature lists. As Bell explains, they position themselves as "the winds beneath your wings," not the star of the show. For marketers in any industry, Bell's insights on measuring effectiveness are particularly valuable. Through sophisticated modelling, Cathay has quantified that brand emotions drive approximately 50% of consumer choices, with a 1% increase in consideration across just four markets translating to half a billion dollars in value. This data-driven approach helps marketing secure its rightful place in business strategy conversations. Listen now to discover how Cathay Pacific is soaring again, and why Bell believes that regardless of technology trends, "the battle for business starts in the mind" of your customers. About Ed Bell, General Manager Brand, Insights and Marketing Communications, Cathay Pacific Ed Bell is responsible for the development of brand strategy, consumer insights, loyalty marketing and marketing communications for the Cathay Pacific group globally. He has spent the majority of his career in marketing strategy and later as a CEO for marketing and communication consultancies across Asia and Greater China, working for a diverse set of brands and businesses. A seasoned marketing professional, he is the recipient of the prestigious IPA and Jay Chiat awards for marketing effectiveness and strategy and is a regular author and speaker. Originally from Melbourne, Ed trained in psychology and later marketing. He is married with three children and calls Hong Kong home. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on: -Apple: https://apple.co/3IHnh6Z -Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3ZvNpro -YouTube Music: https://bit.ly/47eQTTj -YouTube Video: https://bit.ly/4idYNB6

What makes a brand truly meaningful in people's lives? In this captivating conversation with Dr. Marcus Collins - professor, agency strategist, and cultural marketing expert - we explore how the most powerful brands transcend their product categories to become vessels of meaning in culture. Marcus reveals why brands aren't something we construct but rather what others think of them. Through examples like Patagonia, Nike, and Beyoncé, he illustrates how brands that stand for something beyond their products create deeper connections with people. "They are not defined by what they do," Marcus explains, "They're defined by who they are and how they see the world." The discussion takes a fascinating turn when Marcus unpacks the three levels of empathy in marketing, with cognitive empathy - treating others as they want to be treated rather than how we would want - representing the highest form. This perspective shift from "how do I tap into culture?" to "how do I contribute to culture?" transforms how brands can authentically connect with people. Perhaps most provocatively, Marcus challenges the concept of brand purpose, suggesting that "conviction" provides a more powerful framework. While many brands jumped on social causes when convenient, those with true conviction stand for their principles regardless of consequences. "Speak up when you are convicted, when it really matters," he advises, noting how brands that make strategic decisions based on genuine beliefs rather than opportunism create more meaningful connections. For marketers navigating today's complex landscape, Marcus offers a profound reminder that brands exist as characters in constantly evolving cultural stories. The key to success lies not in rigid control but in authentic participation in culture with humility and curiosity. Listen now to discover how putting humanity first in your marketing can create lasting impact. About Dr Marcus Collins Dr. Marcus Collins is an award-winning marketer and cultural translator with one foot in the world of practice—formerly serving as the Head of Strategy at Wieden+Kennedy, New York—and one foot in the world of academia—as a marketing professor at the Ross School of Business, University of Michigan. Before joining Wieden+Kennedy, he served as the Chief Consumer Connections Officer at Doner Advertising and led Social Engagement at Steve Stoute’s advertising agency, Translation. Over the course of his career, Marcus has developed a practice for creating culturally contagious ideas that inspire people to take action. Prior to his advertising tenure, Marcus began his career in music and tech with a startup he co-founded before working on iTunes + Nike sport music initiatives at Apple and running digital strategy for Beyoncé. His best-selling book, For The Culture: The Power Behind What We Buy, What We Do, and Who We Want to Be, examines the influence of culture on consumption and unpacks how everyone, from marketers to activists, can leverage culture to get people to take action. Marcus holds a doctorate in marketing from Temple University, where he studied cultural contagion and meaning making. He received an MBA with an emphasis on strategic brand marketing from the University of Michigan, where he also earned his undergraduate degree in Material Science Engineering. Subscribe to the WFA #BetterMarketing podcast on: -Apple: https://apple.co/3IHnh6Z -Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3ZvNpro -YouTube Music: https://bit.ly/47eQTTj -YouTube Video: https://bit.ly/4idYNB6

In this episode of WFA's Better Marketing Podcast in partnership with Meta, David Wheldon speaks with Dr Frederique Covington Corbett who is in the private sector division of UNICEF as Chief of Global Brand & Marketing. David and Frederique discuss the biggest mistake marketers make, whether Gen Alpha is getting the leadership they need, why CEOs need to become Chief Energy Officers, the hushing trend sweeping across companies and what Chief Marketing Officers may be surprised about when it comes to standing out in judging for the Effie Awards. About Frederique Covington Corbett Frederique “Freddie” Covington Corbett is Chief of Global Brand & Marketing at UNICEF in Geneva. Prior to joining UNICEF, she completed a tour of several senior roles, including as senior vice president, chief global brand strategy and integrated marketing officer at Visa; the senior vice president, head of marketing and cross border for Visa in Asia Pacific; international marketing director at Twitter and chief marketing officer for Microsoft in Asia Pacific. Earlier in her career, Covington held several leadership roles in advertising and strategy consulting, including as a Managing Partner at Ogilvy & Mather and a global strategist at Y&R in the United States. Covington holds a doctoral degree in global leadership and change from Pepperdine University in Los Angeles, California, as well as a BA and MBA from La Sorbonne University (CELSA) in Paris, France. Furthermore, she is a graduate of the Harvard Kennedy School for the Women and Public Policy Program. In 2023 Frederique published Leadership on a Blockchain: What Asia Can Teach Us About Networked Leadership, which offers a provocative call to all businesspeople to reimagine leadership for transparency, trust, and distributed decision-making. Dr. Corbett is a guest lecturer at Berkeley and Pepperdine University and sits on the board of Directors of EFFIE Worldwide.

In this episode of WFA's Better Marketing Podcast, David Wheldon speaks to marketing guru, Mark Ritson, and his AI-generated alter ego, the Ritbot.

In this episode of WFA's Better Marketing Podcast, David Wheldon speaks to Primark's Chief Customer Officer, Michelle McEttrick, about pivoting from a 'no marketing' approach to brand building to redefine customer proposition and grow in new markets.

In episode 34 of the Better Marketing Pod, David Wheldon speaks to AXA Group Head of Communication, Brand and Sustainability, and a member of the AXA Management Committee, Ulrike Decoene.

In this episode of the Better Marketing Pod, David Wheldon speaks to Allyson Witherspoon, Global CMO of Nissan Motor Corporation about the electric vehicle race, why marketers should always put brand before product and how a YouTube music channel can help sell cars.

In episode 31 of the Better Marketing Pod, David Wheldon speaks to L'Oréal's CMO, Marketer of 2023 and Global Marketer Week speaker, Asmita Dubey.

Creative Salon’s Claire Beale and Sonoo Singh on why clients should champion creativity, how to attract young talent and the future of the profession in a technology-driven world.

This year we talked again to some of the brightest minds in the industry for our WFA podcast, bringing you tips and insights for better global marketing. As the year draws to a close, host David Wheldon gives his 2023 podcast highlights.

Understanding people, great (female) leadership and why diversity brings diversity of thought: in episode 30 of the Better Marketing Pod, host David Wheldon speaks with Jane Wakely, Chief Consumer & Marketing Officer and Chief Growth Officer, International Foods, at PepsiCo - and PepsiCo's first global CMO.

David speaks with the most recent WFA Global Marketer of the Year, Cristina Diezhandino, Chief Marketing Officer at Diageo, about the importance of creative precision, the role of emerging markets and Diageo's brand purpose.

David speaks with Alberto Levy, Global CMO at Grupo Bimbo, about brand purpose, company responsibilities and sustainability.