OurVoices with Kristin Kalbli

In this the final episode of the OurVoices Podcast, host Kristin Kalbli shares a little of the wisdom she's accumulated over the years of producing this podcast and over a decade of learning and healing from her own experience in a mixed-orientation marriage. This final episode her gift to you —the loyal and mighty audience — in gratitude for your support, your attention, and your time over the last eight—yes, eight—years. Stay in touch with Kristin: Her book page: The Mercy Fake (Facebook): https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61570310436738 Kristin’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kristin.kalbli Instagram: @kristinkalbli Substack: https://substack.com/@kristinkalbli74 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@kristinkalbli7922 Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life: How to Finally, Really Grow Up by Jungian analyst James Hollis: https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Meaning-Second-Half-Life/dp/1592402070

In today's episode, Kristin obliges audience members who have wondered when she would finally tell her story. Her friend Angela Tonn, who had a front row seat to the demise of Kristin's marriage, joins her to turn the lens on Kristin and ask her the questions she normally asks other people on this show. If you'd like to know where to find Kristin, check out the links below: Friend her on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kristin.kalbli Follow announcements about her book, The Mercy Fake: The Story of One Fake Marriage, Lots of Fake Orgasms, and the Search for What's Real: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61570310436738 Instagram: @kristinkalbli Substack: https://substack.com/@kristinkalbli74 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@kristinkalbli7922

Irina’s discovery of her husband’s sexuality started from accidentally finding a social media account in a locked folder on his phone. Not thinking much of it at first, she enquired him about it, and he burst into tears and said, “I think I am bisexual”. He then shared the account and the rest of his private folder – the contents of which clearly indicated he was attracted to men, as well as women. While feeling betrayed by his withholding such an important piece of information throughout their marriage, she was also impressed by his honesty in sharing his thoughts and emotions during the early weeks and months following the disclosure. She approaches her post-disclosure marriage as a new relationship—one with someone she knows has many good qualities, but whom she is still getting to know.

Today's episode features a presentation of the Minwalla Model of Deceptive Sexuality and Complex Trauma Treatment. In 2006, Dr. Omar Minwalla began to study the signs of Complex Trauma related stress in people whose spouses had committed infidelity. Minwalla’s powerful educational metaphor, the “Secret Sexual Basement”, has made the personal, relational, and sociological abuses that comprise deceptive sexuality accessible to everyone. By putting the spotlight on the harms of “deceptive sexuality,” Minwalla shows how clinically significant deficits in integrity enable infidelity and can rise to the level of an Integrity Abuse Disorder, which he categorizes as a form of intimate partner abuse. From here we take Minwalla's model a step further and posit that closeted LGBT+ spouses in mixed orientation marriages have a Secret Sexual Basement of their own. This compartmentalized secret sexual reality not only contains secret sexual behaviors that may or may not be going on, but also contains their hidden or obscured sexual orientation or gender identity. It’s not just that deception is employed to cover infidelity, it’s that, intentional or not, deception may be deployed to cover sexuality itself. In the case of marriage closets, as with infidelity, concealment behaviors, manipulation and deceptive management of straight spouses constitutes patterns of emotional, psychological and relational harm that may give rise to symptoms of complex trauma in straight spouses. DR. OMAR MINWALLA WEBSITE: https://minwallamodel.com DR. OMAR MINWALLA PODCAST INTERVIEWS Understanding Betrayal with Dr. Omar Minwalla. Part 1 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/helping-couples-heal-podcast/id1462962051?i=1000465644823 Understanding Betrayal with Dr. Omar Minwalla. Part 2 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/helping-couples-heal-podcast/id1462962051?i=1000469245574 Understanding Betrayal with Dr. Omar Minwalla. Part 3 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/helping-couples-heal-podcast/id1462962051?i=1000472914618 Real Talk About Cheating (Tell Me How You’re Mighty with Chump Lady Tracy Shorn) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tell-me-how-youre-mighty-real-talk-about-cheating/id1703987977 OURVOICES PODCAST EPISODES: Michelle Mays https://bit.ly/S6Ep13OPOV_YT Debi Silber https://bit.ly/S4Ep2OPOV_YT Tracy Shorn https://bit.ly/S6Ep1OPOV_YT Ryan King https://bit.ly/S4Ep3OPOV_YT William Dameron https://bit.ly/S2Ep15OPOV_YT Helen Fitzgibbons https://bit.ly/S2Ep11OPOV_YT

Not only was OurPath Volunteer David Harte surprised to learn his wife was a lesbian, he was surprised that her family already knew she was. “One of her friends told me [my wife] had come out in her early 20’s. That wasn’t accepted by her family at all, hence, when I met her, her family were very encouraging of us getting married and having a child. I didn’t realize they were trying to marry her off.” Ten years later, David has found purpose and healing in paying forward the invaluable support he received from OurPath while in the early days after disclosure.

Tom Jones was married to a woman for 22 years and hid in a deep closet in denial. His wife was aware of his same sex attraction early on, but not the depth of it. A positive HIV status and an acute addition to crystal meth deeply impacted their marriage and lives, resulting in divorce. His wife was diagnosed with cancer and passed away just two years following their divorce, requiring Tom to raise their two daughters. Although close at the end of his wife’s life, Tom, now 68, feels they never had to opportunity to truly mend. In this episode, he shares how he believes his cowardice and inability to accept himself for who he was impacted the lives of his wife, his family, and those around him. He has carried deep remorse for his choices, and wants straight spouses to know they are deserving of accountability and amends. Like this content? Show your appreciation with a donation directory to the podcast to keep the content coming! bit.ly/OPpodcastDONATE

Filmmaker Vaishnavi Sundar discusses her recently released documentary: Behind the Looking Glass, which delves into the lives and experiences of women whose partners have, or want to, transition. With voices from women worldwide, this film is the first of its kind. Today’s conversation touches on pornography, coercive control, emotional, financial and sexual abuse that for some women, coincide with their husbands identifying as trans. Vaishnavi is a writer and a self-taught filmmaker from Chennai, India. Through her films, she advocates for the rights of women and girls worldwide. A decade ago she founded Lime Soda Films with the aim of highlighting themes of social justice, women’s empowerment and education. She is the Founder of Women Making Films (WMF) – a platform for female filmmakers to collaborate and create works of art, and has had the privilege of hosting the work of members from more than 20 countries. Behind the Looking Glass film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frffv2sB8zE Website: https://limesodafilms.com Twitter/X: @LimeSodaFilms

Dr. Ben Schilaty, a social work professor and therapist, explains the Six Stages of Coming Out (first observed by Dr. Vivienne Cass in the 1970's). We explore both the experiences of LGBT+ spouses progressing through these stages, along with the corresponding experiences of straight spouses at each stage. This conversation aims to shed light on the various behaviors straight spouses may observe from their LGBT+ partners, as well as give context to straight spouses' feelings and experiences as their partners work through the coming out process. Ben is the author of A Walk In My Shoes: Questions I am Often Asked as a Gay Latter Day Saint and cohosts the podcast "All Out in the Open" with his friend Charlie Bird. He is a cofounder of the Gather Conference which offers Christ-centered support to LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and those who love them. Website: https://www.benschilaty.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benschilaty/ Podcast: https://questionsfromthecloset.com

Ray Alex Williams used to go by the name Rachel. A former trans woman, today he refers to himself as a detransitioner. In this episode, he shares his perspective on his own transition process, including his true motivations for transitioning. Exploring a diversity of essential perspectives like Ray’s can provide wives whose husbands have come out as trans with honest and vital information about gender transition in their own marriages, so they are better able to make fully informed decisions for their own lives. X: @RayAlexWilliams YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RayAlexWilliams

When Christine discovered her husband was gay after thirteen years of marriage, at first she felt relief that the disconnect between them had been explained. Anger and grief came much later. But when her oldest child came out as trans a few years later, she felt her grief first. Many straight spouses in mixed orientations marriages have LGBT+ children and face the challenge of reconciling conflicting feelings around those respective comings out. On today's show, our guest talks about the dissonance between her feelings when her spouse came out and when her child came out, and how she worked through the feelings to find acceptance.

When another husband called Wade out of the blue to tell him both their wives were spending time together on a vacation that very moment, Wade Ferris knew the writing was on the wall. With candor and vulnerability, Wade shares his story of learning that his wife of 23 years is a lesbian during the pandemic. A dedicated father and husband, Wade tried for decades to unlock the stalemate and repair the lack of intimacy in his marriage. By his own admission, the disconnect from his wife made him resentful and "not much fun to be around." He went on a mission to correct everything his wife complained was wrong with him, at last becoming what she called, "the perfect husband." But, as he soon found out, this was not enough to save their mixed orientation marriage. Wade is currently writing a book about the straight spouse experience.

Podcaster, Writer and coming out Coach Anne-Marie Zanzal shares her journey to coming out as a late-life lesbian after decades in a straight marriage. With the hope of building understanding and healing for straight husbands, she sheds light on the experiences of women coming out later in life and answers their questions. About Anne-Marie: https://annemariezanzal.com Coming Out and Beyond Podcast: https://annemariezanzal.com/coming-out-stories-beyond-podcast/

Karen Slater had a lot to forgive her closeted husband for, not the least of which is the impact his sexual rejection had on her. It created profound insecurity about her body and sparked years of yo-yo dieting, trying to reignite their sex life, only to have her efforts fail and the cycle repeat. In this conversation, she shares all she had to forgive, why she chose to forgive it, and how she was able to, all while insisting what her husband did in his efforts to maintain his closet were not ok. DONATE to the OurVoices podcast: https://interland3.donorperfect.net/weblink/WebLink.aspx?name=E342718&id=47

Author Ann Anderson Evans shares her story of loss and healing after she discovered her husband’s body the morning after he took his own life. After a decades long struggle with his gender identity and her husband's suicide, Ann has worked to make sense of her life, the man she married, and the hidden pain he carried. Ann's story is nuanced, complicated, and defies expectations from every angle. Website: www.annandersonevans.com Book: https://annandersonevans.com/the-sweet-pain-of-being-alive/

Author and Coach Sally Srok shares her experience of losing herself in a 20-year mixed orientation marriage, learning her husband was gay, and how she rebuilt her life after divorce. After a birthday trip on a cattle drive reawakened her sense of self, Sally found the strength to confront her unhappy marriage, pursue a divorce, and keep her children's lives as stable as possible through it all. But it wasn't until she reexamined a draft of her book, Bonus Round, that she realized she still had to face her anger. Website: www.sallysrok.com Book: Amazon.com: Bonus Round: A Gay Ex-Husband, a Divorce, and a Life Reimagined eBook : Srok, Sally

Today we talk to Licensed Professional Counselor and expert in treating sexual betrayal Michelle Mays. She is the author of The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts you the Worst. We discuss the emotional and psychological impact of sexual betrayal on betrayed partners, the four types of gaslighting and their effects, how shame operates in both partners in the relationships, and how to heal. Website: www.michellemays.com Book: The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts You the Worst: Mays LPC CSAT-S, Michelle: 9781949481778: Amazon.com: Books

In part 2 of our deep dive into forgiveness, we seek a spiritual perspective with Methodist Pastor Carter Cortelyou. We talk about why it can be so hard to let go of the identity of being a straight spouse, what lies on the other side of forgiveness, and why forgiveness can make us feel vulnerable. Carter Cortelyou is a United Methodist clergy person who has been serving congregations in Michigan since 1990. He currently pastors Novi (long “I”) United Methodist Church in the suburbs of Detroit. His ex-wife came out to him in October 2009 after 24 years of marriage. He married his wife Andrea In September 2013. Carter is a past Board President of OurPath and serves as the Metro Detroit support contact.

It's no secret that people who have been betrayed often have a hard time forgiving the person who betrayed them. Resistance to "letting them off the hook" is understandable. In this illuminative conversation with Professor Everette Worthington, we learn the science and research behind forgiveness - what it is, how to do it, and why it matters for our health and wellbeing. Everett Worthington is Commonwealth Professor Emeritus at Virginia Commonwealth University. Ev (which he prefers to be called) notes that his salary is retired but he isn't. He still maintains a license as a Clinical Psychologist in Virginia, and he has published over 45 books and 500 scholarly publications. Currently, he is completing a couple of books (self-forgiveness and couple therapy), and he usually publishes about 20 articles a year, mostly related to forgiveness, humility, and other positive psychology topics. He says that his life mission is "to do all I can to promote forgiveness in every willing heart, home, and homeland." Website: evworthington-forgiveness.com Free workbooks: reach.discoverforgiveness.org

Michael Slepian is the leading expert on the psychology of secrets and author of The Secret Life of Secrets. Slepian has authored more than fifty articles on secrecy, truth, and deception. We talk about why people keep their sexual orientation and gender identity secret (among other secrets), how secrets impact both the secret keeper and those that secrets are kept from, and whether or not it’s ethical to keep a secret from someone who has a stake in knowing the truth (such as a spouse or partner). Website: https://www.columbia.edu/~ms4992/

Dr. Gary Bischof is a professor and coordinator of the Marriage, Couple and Family Counseling Program in the Dept of Counselor Education and Counseling Psychology at Western Michigan University. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in the treatment of couples navigating the gender transition of one of the partners. In this episode, he discusses the pitfalls for couples negotiating gender transition, the factors that can lead to couples staying together, and what competent couples therapy looks like for couples in this situation.