Innovation for sustainability (for UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources Masters)

Julie Blane and Carmel Rafaeli are the Founding Partners of The Table, "a community of investors at the intersection of Climate and Diversity, focused on increasing the amount and frequency of investment into climate ventures where there is at least one woman on the co-founding team". Both have an extensive background in venture capital and early stage investing. They have used that to create a new kind of organisation, The Table, which "enables investors and founders to close funding rounds smarter, faster and bolder through convening diverse and global networks along the early stage ecosystem". This conversation is for anyone who wants to know more about investing in climate-related start-ups. If you find the Venture Capital process a mystery and its jargon confusing, then this is the podcast for you. Just some of the things we cover: -Unpacking the jargon, including: Angel Investor; Pre-seed, Seed and Series A funding rounds; DeepTech; concessionary capital; ticket; and more. -The Table definition of 'sustainability': healthy ecosystem producing a pipeline of innovations; those innovations reducing the greenhouse gas emissions and protecting life; and, the businesses with those innovations are successful. -Deciding to support incremental changes as well as radical innovations, because there is just so much to be done on climate. -How they spotted that there were women-led teams with ideas, but then not getting funds, because those teams didn't know how to access the funds. The Table exists to address that problem. This market innovation is a competitive advantage, as The Table gets to looking at innovations which other investors don't see. All this, plus contributing to gender equality as well. -The Table is also innovating by assembling a community which is a wide 'capital stack', meaning there are investors who invest at each maturity stage. This means that it is easier for a company to access the right funding for its stage. -The Table has yet another innovation, a foundation which provides non-dilutive, recoverable grants to companies, when their success path needs more patient funding. -How the venture capital world has got used to the returns that come from digital technologies which have enourmous network effects, and therefore can have vastly outsized returns compared to anything else, including climate tech. -In the conversation, I refer to some research I did on climate innovation hubs. You can read the findings here. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Hans Unkles is a boat builder and fisherman. He is responsible for the first (and so far only) fully electric fishing vessel in the UK, based out of Tayvallich on Scotland's West Coast. He converted a standard 2-person diesel 'workhorse' into the Lorna Jane, now powered by solar and grid electricity only. You can read the story here and I recommend the hour-long documentary here. Hans went from school to a boat-building apprenticeship. Over the next 40 years he continued building and refitting boats, alongside various kinds of fishing. He decided to electrify a boat because of: fear of climate change; he wants to make a navigable way for others to act; he wants fishing to be around for long-term; and, also he saw the potential of the emerging technology. Some things to pull out: -His fear of climate change is a fear of not being prepared, not being ready for what might happen. -An electrified boat has many advantages, including: >Much, much lower maintenance and repair costs, as there are fewer moving parts to go wrong. >Much lower fuel costs (diesel vs sun + grid electricity). >No longer have 10-12 hours of rattling and noise from the engine ("a physical benefit you cannot put a value on"). -However, the upfront investment in conversion is higher than just refitting as a diesel boat. Partly the existing tech has a 100 year head start (a long time to find all the efficiencies). Plus, fishing vessels doesn't need to pay the environmental cost of using diesel. -He decided to not have funding that required a university research team as well, as he wanted full control. (Very sensible!) -The technical side of refitting the boat for a new power source was difficult, but only in the sense of a difficult engineering and craft problem. But it could benefit from the on-going revolution happening in electrification, especially on batteries. There is a spillover from the automotive industry going electric. -The biggest challenge of doing something novel was the regulation and bureaucracy. All of officialdom was set up for diesel vessels, and the Lorna Jane did not fit into the pre-existing boxes. -The technical side was an example of 'bricolage' (assembling something new from stuff that is around already). in this case, the elctric motor was from a submarine. -Hans loves bodging! Just making something work (and not caring too much about how it looks). This is a really important part of early-stage invention and innovation -- Silicon Valley was (partly) borne in the garage of Dave Packard (of Hewlett Packard). -Hans one thing for policy-makers: after-care for those who are breaking new ground. -The way to shift behaviour is rarely to guilt people (as environmentalists often do) but to show what is possible with real examples from peers. -Hans deliberately fishes in a way that protects the long-term of the sea-life in his area. (He alternates between crabs, scallops and langoustine.) He sees that method as having a long future. "Fishing doesn't really work if it is not sustainable." This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Amy Wilson is a consultant on commercial marketing strategies to early-stage startups (or, as her LinkedIn page puts it: "Venture Lead/Portfolio CCO/CMO & Advisory Board Member for Startups & Scaleups 🚀 Fundraising Support 💰 Founder Mentor 🌱 Ethical Investor"). This episode is a little different. The vast majority of the Innovation for Sustainability interviews are with someone who is working on sustainability directly and exclusively. Amy tries to bring her environmental and activist beliefs into her work, but that isn't always possible. One of the things we explore is the challenge that we all face about how to make good choices in the direction of the values that we have in a complex world where there are many forces which make it hard to deliver a just sustainable transition. Another is how the personality of the founder and their behaviour dictates whether company is going to be viable or not. In particular, we talk about two behaviours: exaggeration / lying makes it harder to learn and adjust quickly; and only allowing narrow life experiences into senior positions makes a team vulnerable to groupthink and blindspots. Amy has an innovation case study with a circular economy startup. She also talks about how a small business can struggle when an employee goes on maternity leave, and so the importance of statutory payments to support diversity in the startup ecosystem. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Dr Anna Birney is CEO (Chief Executive / Enabling / Evolving Officer) of The School of System Change, which enables personal and collective agency to cultivate change in the world with a multi-method approach to systems change learning - with networks, organisations and individuals (Anna's LinkedIn, Medium and Twitter). This episode is a little unusual. We dive into the Multi-Level Perspective ('MLP'), one of the leading theories of system transition which we teach in the module (here for the Wikipedia explanation). MLP has been used in academic research for the last decade or so. However, there are not a lot of good case studies of using MLP for change. The #OneLess project, run by Anna when she was at Forum for the Future, is a rare example. Anna uses slides to explain the story. You can watch the presentation on YouTube here and download the slides here. Through the course of the interview, we cover (amongst other things): -Sustainability as "finding the collective of capability to address a complex world and a changing world". -All models are wrong, just some are more useful than others. -How the OneLess project came out of the Marine CoLABoration, funded by the Calouste Gulbenkian Foundation. -The standard 'story' of change in MLP: the macro level ('Landscape') trends put pressure on the mainstream ('Regime'), which has been dynamically stable but now is struggling, making space for mature new innovations to come in from the bottom level ('Niche'). -Part of the practice of systemic change is paying attention the the boundaries you are choosing, because there is a dance between the boundaries people believe form the system and what interventions can act with that system. -Four different uses of MLP in the proejct: 1. As a frame of research questions to understand the challenge. 2., As a diagnostic analysis of the dynamics. 3. Create a strategy for systemic impact. 4. To keep on testing assumptions against experiences. -Relating the project to the Taxonomy of Innovation used in the Module. -The importance of keeping an experimental mindset, and to be actively learning-by-testing. -Also, the importance of having a portfolio of interventions of different types, each justified by the underpinning rationale provided by MLP; not just relying on technological silver bullets. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Molly Webb is Founder of Energy Unlocked, an energy market accelerator focused on new market entrants achieving a low cost, renewable, resilient energy system, and Co-Founder of PeerCo, a platform which boosts carbon impact for businesses through digital Monitoring, Reporting and Verification (Molly on LinkedIn). We cover (amongst many things!): -How the Energy Unlocked cam out of Molly's work at the Climate Group, and her diagnosis of the challenges for innovating in energy. -How Energy Unlocked is a market accelerator, not a business accelerator. Molly is focussing on the conditions that would make it possible for multiple start-ups to succeed. -One of the methods Energy Unlimited uses is Open Innovation. -Molly also uses a strategy approach called 'Problem Driven Iterative Adaptation' (PDIA). -Relate the Energy Unlimited approach to the module's innovation typology. -If the incentives in the energy market were there, then we'd be fast on our way to a sustainable future already. -There has been a shift to government-led industrial strategy. -The Carbon Flex project, which asked asked the question 'Are we investing in the right things at local level to decarbonise the grid faster?'. -Part of accelerating a market is breaking new ground which is too risky for funding which wants a secure and certain return. Which makes it difficult! -How understandings of the way energy markets work are very entrenched by how they happen to work now, rather than how they might work if you change the incentives. -Addressing that inertia and entrenched situation requires exploring. Hence the need for Energy Unlocked. -The importance of making sure the problem definition is not constrained by the understanding of what is currently possible. -How important he demand side of the energy markets are, and how this is under-explored in policy, philanthropic funding and investment. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Sarah Goodenough is Head of Policy at Climate Policy Radar (CPR), a "startup using data science and AI to build tools that unlock global climate law and policy data. Open data, open source, not-for-profit." CPR are right at the cutting edge of the application of AI to climate law and policy. We cover: -How CPR grew out of the Grantham Research institute on Climate Change and the Environment at LSE, building out from a project on the Climate Change Laws of the World. -The approach of CPR to build tools that open up the messy black box of climate laws, policies and case law globally, helping decision-makers design more effective climate change strategies. -How they are using AI tools carefully, so you can understand how the answer was arrived at (not a black box, like ChatGPT) and to avoid 'hallucinations' (where AIs make stuff up). -CPR has created AI tools which do various things: extract text from documents; translate into English; train models carefully on this high quality input; and, perform semantic search, making it easy for people to find what they are looking for. -How and why they work quickly with the data scientists, so the policy knowledge informs the AI development, and the AI capacity informs the requests on policy analysis. -In the terms of the innovation taxonomy we use in the Masters' module, CPR is has several types: (a) process innovation: the AI tools changing how someone can do research. (b) organisational innovation: the way the data and policy teams work together, and having a mission and staff benefits, are organising CPR differently from other AI-led entities, in order to attract the motivated talent they would not otherwise be able to afford. (c) political economy innovation: supporting others to lobby for climate policies which shift how the economy functions. -The specific support CPR provided in last year's UN Climate Change Global Stocktake, which is designed to assess the global response to the climate crisis every five years. They launched Global Stocktake Explorer, a search engine designed to enable users to quickly and easily understand and navigate all inputs (over 1,600 dcuments) to the first Global Stocktake. (More here.) -CPR is an antidote to Cory Doctorow here: “We're nowhere near the point where an AI can do your job, but we're well past the point where your boss can be suckered into firing you and replacing you with a bot that fails at doing your job” Great to find a positive use of This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Paul Miller (LinkedIn, personal website) is Managing Partner and CEO of Bethnal Green Ventures, which is "Europe’s leading early-stage tech for good VC". Note that at about 33 minutes there are some pauses because our internet connection went down. Our conversation covers how to run a 'Tech for Good' VC, including having a selection process that works, and investing in ambitious, leading-edge companies. Some specifics: -Some of the Venture Capital (VC) jargon, like: 'early stage', 'managing partner', 'general partner', and 'limited partner'. -The structure of funds in a VC firm. -BGV's role in the start of Fairphone, an Amsterdam-based electronics company which is 'changing how our devices are built and produced'. -BGV's role in the start of Aparito, accelerating healthcare by digitising clinic trials. -How valuable campaigning skills are to a start-up CEO, as there is need to keep on storying telling your route to success. -The value in having a 'pointy' experience of the problem they are trying to address. Not a generic appreciation, but a deeper explanation which gets into the detail of what it is like for those facing the problem. -BGV's own process innovation of how it invites and selects the organisation it backs: an open call, followed by structured evaluation by a diverse spread of experts (which helps avoid the trap of solving problems for white dudes who all went to Ivy League universities). -The biggest challenge for a small VC firm is to raise the capital, mirroring the experience of the start-up founders. There are some improvements, such as the British Business Bank, and Big Society Capital. -Paul believes that the government needs to put some actual force behind institutional investors to invest in innovations, so that the pension funds are not just reaping the rewards of past innovation, but also investing in the innovations which will pay the pensions of the future. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Stuart Wilkinson is Assistant Director, Innovation & Engagement at the University of Oxford (his university page, LinkedIn), and a Fellow of Reuben College. He works across the university, trying to create impact from the research that academics do. That ranges from helping a new technology to be launched as a start-up, through to getting results from humanities research into policy. Our conversation covers: -The tensions between curiosity-led research (which can yield utterly unexpected uses) and challenge-led research (which is aimed at a particular problem). -The role of knowledge exchange in and from universities, as part of national and global innovation systems. (For more on the functions of innovation systems see Hekkert et al in their classic 2007 paper). -How that role has evolved out of what used to be called 'tech transfer'. -Tells the story of YASA, an electric motor technology that was first developed in Oxford and, after some 13 years, was bought by Mercedes. The story is partly about needing patient backing (from the university, and from government). Plus, the need to pivot as the landscape changes, in the case from a future where hydrogen cars looked possible, to a present where it is clear that electric vehicles are the way forward. -Link to the UN High Level Climate Champion's Race to Zero initiative, and Nigel Topping's emphasis on the automotive sector. -How the success of the vaccine (which had been in development in Oxford for a while before the COVID pandemic hit) has galvanised their work. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Steve Waygood is Chief Responsible Investment Officer at Aviva Investors (Steve's corporate page and LinkedIn). He has been a crucial player in the rise of sustainable finance in the UK over the last 20 years. Our conversation covers: -The role of insurance companies in finance, and their particular interest and leverage on sustainability. -No one anywhere in the world understands the whole of finance. -Many ESG funds are trying to beat the market ('maximise alpha'), on the assumption that an ESG perspective gives you superior information or insight. (The alternative is to change the market, so that we are all heading in a sustainable direction.) -It is possible for a market to be efficient (the assets prices reflect the information) and have market failure (there are important negative impacts which are not included in the prices). For Steve, climate change is a market failure; chasing alpha alone will not deliver a sustainable world. -A potted history of 'ESG' innovations in Aviva (as a proxy for how this has played out across the industry), including: >Process innovation: the role of engagement (meeting directors of companies to push them on issues) and voting in formal governance (the Annual General Meeting, or AGM). >Organisational innovation: from having specialist analysts in one dedicated team, to now having people with ESG skills embedded in each of the analytical teams. >Political economy innovation: having collaborations like the UN Principles for Responsible Investment (UN PRI) and also using multilateral spaces, like the climate COP, for wider change. -His current focus on 'macro-stewardship': "taking a more holistic view of our stewardship responsibilities and actively engaging with policymakers, industry bodies and peers, regulators, standard setters and other influential parties to advocate and push for changes that will help create a more sustainable economic system." -His main challenge: the 'tragedy of the horizon', meaning that by the time you reach the horizon, and experience the risks for real, it is too late to do anything about them. -Priority: drive innovation through the whole asset management and asset owning institutions, so that they all recognise that without steward that is systemic then all our business models will be deeply harmed by climate change. Therefore it is in their interests to rise up and challenge those governments that we lend money to, to deliver what they said they were when they signed the Paris Agreement. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

David Hunter is Senior Counsel at Bates Wells, a purpose-driven law firm (David's corporate page and LinkedIn). David has a specialism in purpose-led organisations, including on fiduciary duty, social impact bonds and governance. Bates Wells itself was the first UK law firm to become a B-Corp, the certification scheme on for-benefit organisations, and has long been an advocate for purpose-led organisations. Our conversation covers a lot of what Indy Johar of Dark Matter Labs calls the 'boring revolution' -- the vital work of getting legal and governance regulations and practice to align with generating a sustainable world. Some of the specifics: -The Bates Wells Sustainability and Responsibility Pledge. -How much large businesses in particular rely on in-house counsel or external law firms to make sure they can say they are on the right side of the law. A company, or an individual, can be at legal jeopardy and/ro no longer be covered by insurance if they can be shown to be negligent (rather than unlucky or being a bit rubbish but in good faith). -The thorny issue of providing professional services to existing companies who are not aligned with the Paris Agreement or the SDGs. -The emerging area of 'Advised Emissions', where a professional service firm understands, and can be accountable for, the climate impact of its advice through its clients. -Using the idea of Advised Emissions to shape more and more of how the profession engages with that question, so a company can't just ignore your concerns and move on to the next lawyer. Leading to the formation of the UN High-level Climate Champions' Race to Zero Working Group on Net Zero for Professional Service Providers here. -The reluctance to pursue much-needed sectoral collaborations because of fears about uses of anti-competitive laws (in the US known as anti-trust laws). -The myth that fiduciary duty (the duty that the management of a company have to the owners) means always having to maximise profits, rather than satisfying shareholders on returns. This expands the options companies have for their business strategies, commercial tactics, employment practices, supply chain conditions and more. -Gettng a court ruling saying that charities can focus their investments on sustainability outcomes. -The importance of contracts as the necessary 'plumbing' of business interactions, and so how important the terms within contracts are in giving businesses choices in behaviour. -All this legal innovation is necessary for the all other innovation for sustainability. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Mike Pitts is Deputy Challenge Director, Transforming Construction at Innovate UK (LinkedIn, Twitter). Innovate UK is the UK’s national innovation agency, supporting business-led innovation in all sectors, technologies and UK regions. Our conversation covers: - How a publicly-funded innovation agency tries to nurture innovation and contribute to economic success, especially on Net Zero, leveling up and increasing UK exports. - The importance of storytelling in innovation in particular, and in change more widely. - The importance of deeply integrating sustainability, so that the stand-alone 'sustainability' job is made obsolete. - How Innovate UK tried to shift key parts of the construction industry. - The innovation required wasn't just of new technologies, but of techniques, including: tacit know-how, process innovation and business models. Therefore, a novel innovation in one sector can come by learning from another sector. - Addressing the challenges that sustainable construction often has much higher upfront investment and lower unproven running costs, which means that the developer is unwilling to risk the higher upfront investment because they cannot be sure the extra upfront cost (with a lifetime benefit) will be covered by a higher sales price. The book I mention which covers the importance of story is Gaia Vince's Transcendance. I also mention the Net Zero Review by Chris Skidmore (known as the 'Skidmore Review'). I also briefly mention Michael Gubb's innovation chain. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Alison Ward (LinkedIn, Twitter) is the CEO of CottonConnect, which helps global brands source more fairly and sustainably by creating more robust, resilient and successful raw material supply chains. Our conversation covers: -Just how complex the cotton supply chain is, with cotton traded 10 times once it leaves the farmer. -How it takes time to turn an innovative concept into real impact. CottonConnect has a 10 year journey from working with just 1,251 female farmers to now reaching well over 300,000 farmers across Bangladesh India and Pakistan. -Being a CEO of a social enterprise has to combine being commercial and driving impact at every level. -In the status quo supply chain, the farmers have the least power, least information, worst negotiating position, and so are, often, proportionately the most exposed to risk. CottonConnect is trying to change that. Knowledge is power: if you have just one piece of important insight then you can use that on your suppliers or competition. -How new legislation on claims by shops or brands is forcing them to improve traceability, which is an opportunity for CottonConnect and a driver of innovation. -The importance in shifting from 'efficiency through arms-length transactions' to 'effectiveness through long-term relationships' in order to deliver lasting outcomes. -The use of PESTLE framework: Political, Economic, Social, Technological, Legal, Environmental. -Deliberately having the vast majority of the staff close to the cotton farmers, rather than in a UK head office -- important in avoiding charges of neocolonialism, as well as getting better insight on what's really happening. -The need to accept failure, celebrating it (and lessons learnt) and then gracefully stopping an idea, before you throw good money after bad. Stopping something that isn't working, but you've learnt from, is a success. -The importance in determination in overcoming obstacles and influencing people over time. -A big focus going forward on women, who are hugely involved in cotton but often not empowered by that involvement. -People can be agents of change, even in the face of the most difficult situations, with the right support and resources. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Innovating for Sustainability series is back after an unintentional summer break with a great interview. Adam Parr is an Oxford-based barrister researching law, enterprise, and the environment (website, wikipedia, academic bio). His 30-year career has encompassed finance, law, industry, and sport. Since 2012, Adam has helped build a number of companies as a VC investor and founder. He chairs Oxford Semantic Technologies (an AI technology business), Cheesecake Energy Limited (a heat storage business) and Homeland Conservation, a charitable trust dedicated to accelerating action on climate. He is a member of the Bar of England and Wales and a Business Fellow of the Smith School of Enterprise and Environment. We cover a lot of ground, especially on Adam's role as a board chair and angel investor. Some things to pull out: -The role of a chair is not to run the company. -The first responsibility is to make sure there is a great chief executive in place. -Often, the original founder might be a great technologist. But that's not the same as great CEO. -Fundraising can be a massive burden for a start-up CEO. -A startup is thinking about funding all the time, and also making sure the next raise does not harm the the future fundraising options. -Adam looks at each business in its own context, not trying to impose one sustainability approach, or require a pre-determined 'impact'. -He selects areas to be in based on solving crucial pinchpoints (eg energy storage for renewable energy grid). Focus on things that are going to make a strategic difference. -Story about realising the energy transition was important to Formula One, and so developing a hybrid vehicle, and doing carbon report. -Formula One shows that you have to get the rules (and incentives) right, so that people do what can be done. Changing the rules is fiercely contested by incumbents, who succeed with the rules as they are. -THe Inflation Reduction Act is a great example of setting good rules. -All this shows how much political economy is tied up with innovation activity, especially when it requires displacing incumbents. -Adam uses a variant on Agile, drawn from Schaffer Consulting's Rapid Results method. The Stanford Social Innovation Review article ($). Key insight: create the zest of a crisis to get more done. -With climate, we don't have a lot of time. "Nuclear fusion is fantastic. Quantum Computing is fantastic. Anybody who says that ...[these technologies are] going to help us address the climate crisis needs their head examining." This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Beverley Gower-Jones has two roles: (1) the Founder and Managing Partner of the Clean Growth Fund, which" invests in companies with products and services focussed on driving clean growth in the low carbon economy"; and (2) CEO of Carbon Limiting Technologies, which "works with industry and government to commercialise low carbon innovations and accelerate clean growth". Our conversation covers: -The need for a UK-based Venture Capital fund focused on early stage companies (pre-revenue or just about generating revenue) who need to build a commercial demonstrator to stimulate the next phase of their success. -The different investor demands on a software vs hardware businesses. -The story of founding the fund, and the personal and technical challenges of that. -Why she sought public as well as private finance. And why they both, in her view, have to be exposed to the risks equally. -The constant need, when doing innovation, to overcome inertia, where people choose to improve their current approach rather than explore the next. The book I mention is 'The Modern Firm' by John Roberts. -Addressing the challenge of being a first-timer. -The constant need for entrepreneurs to be able to describe a plausible route to investors to exit, with larger returns. -The importance of government industrial strategy, especially the Skidmore Review on the economics of Net Zero. -Their own playbook of where a company needs to get to as it grows, called the Commercial Readiness Levels (inspired by NASA's Technological Readiness Levels). -How getting to Net Zero will mean whole-of-society, whole-of-economy shifts. Every part of our lives will be touched. There will be a need for invention and diffusion everywhere. Links to other episodes: -James Corah of CCLA, a funder of the Clean Growth Fund, in Episode 4. -Kyle Grant of Oxwash on using the Technology Readiness Levels in Episode 11. -Leigh Huudson on the struggles of deeptech innovation in Episode 6. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Alyssa Gilbert is the Director of Innovation at Grantham Institute for Climate Change and the Environment. She is the boss of the second speaker, Naveed Chaudhry who is Head of The Greenhouse at the Centre for Climate Change Innovation, now known as Undaunted, at Imperial College. Our conversation covers: -How the Grantham Institute at Imperial is trying to support climate-related innovation through 'Undaunted'. -How the Greenhouse operates as an incubator and accelerator of climate-related entrepreneurs. -The example of Notpla, who do packaging solutions are made from a material made from seaweed and plants that disappears naturally. -How they used the status of the university to create a lobbying voice for climate-related industries that don't yet exist. -The approach at the Greenhouse: trying to get applications from beyond the usual groups; using a bootcamp to select based on the potential of the technology and the team; the 'germination' and 'propagation' phases. -The importance of the Skidmore Review of Net Zero, and what's needed from government now is strong policy direction backed up by resources. -Undaunted as a vehicle for connection and collaboration on climate-related innovation, starting in London but engaging around the rest of the world. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Kyle Grant is Founder at Oxwash, an on-demand and laundry service made simple and sustainable (LinkedIn). Our conversation covers: -The role of a start-up CEO. -Transfering the skills of a NASA Life support systems engineer to laundry. -How Oxwash can be the operational back-end of many circular fashion companies, and so is (1) an example platform business and (2) a pocket of a possible 'access economy', where people don't own things but have access to them (as many people do with music and Spotify now). -Oxwash expansion plans are both more physical business in the UK and licencing IP overseas (as Ocado has done with online groceries). -Innovating how clothes are dried, from heat to sound. -How companies can be satisfied with 'local maxima', and so stay with technology and techniques which are not the best they could be. (Think of that as accepting the view from the top of a hill when there is a mountain a bit further along the path.) -The value of going through process of doing the B-Corp accreditation, as a way to learn good practices which have been codified into a standard. -How a carbon price would provide a level playing field. -The different innovation approaches they have adopted: from Agile to NASA's Technology Readiness Levels and Toyota's Lean Management. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Jolyon Swinburn is a Senior Policy Analyst at The Treasury / Te Tai Ohanga in Aotearoa New Zealand (LinkedIn). The specific innovation which prompted the conversation was Jolyon working on Aotearoa New Zealand's first green bond. Our conversation covers: -Aotearoa New Zealand's approach to prosperity which cannot be captured by GDP through the Living Standards Framework and the Wellbeing Report. -The fundamentals of what are a bond and a green bond. -The steps they went through to investigate and then create the green bond. -Using a third party sustainability ratings agency for credibility. -Making sure that the green bond was funding transitional projects that would not happen otherwise ('additionality'). -The way in which raising a green bond is a signal from the government to international investors and national businesses on the desired direction of the economy. -How governments pushing green bonds is forcing investment analysts to upskill on green issues. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Shama Skinner is an executive, entrepreneur, advisory Board Member and Edmund Hillary Fellow (LinkedIn). She was an early team member of Thinx Inc, the company with sustainable solutions to menstruation and incontinence. Shama had spells as Chief Product Officer, Chief Operating Officer and interim CEO. Our conversation covers: -Being a start-up with new innovations in a category (menstruation and incontinence) that had seen no new products for decades. -Growing a new product which was part of the circular economy. -Shifting who was involved in the innovation process, especially female engineers and faster connection with customers. -Innovating how a category was marketed. -Shifting a market, from stuck with predominantly single-use products to one where reusable products are so fast-growing that competitors have to respond. -The tension between 'Improve the current' vs 'Explore the next' (that framing taken from a book I mention called The Modern Firm by John Roberts). -For a start-up, competitive advantage comes from innovating faster than incumbents. -Addressing 'Period Poverty' and the need for Universal Basic Services. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Leigh Hudson (LinkedIn) is Sustainable Fuels & Carbon at International Airlines Group (IAG, which owns British Airways amongst others) and Board Member at Ikigai Capital, which aims to become a leading international, technology-neutral 'energy transition platform'. She role is developing new technologies for sustainable aviation fuel, by supporting innovators and influencing policy. A themes I took to her answers: Some people find aviation controversial, and see it as a symbol of our unsustainable situation, seeing it as an addiction to a destructive form of consumption which is highly unequally distributed. For them, there can be no sustainable form of aviation, and effort put into it is a waste of precious resources at this crucial time. But if technological innovation can deliver, then could there be sustainable aviation, which is not highly damaging in each flight? It is a big 'if', with many things needing to go right for there to be truly sustainable aviation. But that was why we were comfortable having this interview. Such innovation efforts are a legitimate part of creating a sustainable world for all. This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here. Questions: Here are the times of each of the questions. PERSONAL AND ORGANISATIONAL INTRO 0:49 - Q1. What is your role and organisation? ORGANISATIONAL SETTING 1:39 - Q2. What role does your department / function have in the organisation? What is expected from you? How does that connect to the organisation’s strategy? 3:25 - Q3. How is ‘sustainability’ framed in your organisation? (For instance: are there specific key words or phrases? Is it only environmental?) INNOVATION STORY 6:10 - Q4. Can you tell us the story of a good example of your work on innovation for sustainability? INNOVATION MANAGEMENT 17:33 - Q5. What are the key methods and practices you use for innovation for sustainability? 24:35 - Q6. What are the biggest challenges you face, and how d This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.

Chris Gagné is an Enterprise Agile Coach, Meditation Teacher, and Edmund Hillary Fellowship Fellow (LinkedIn). Chris operates through Approach Perfect, as the vehicle for coaching using the agile methods. Previously he has worked for or coached with many Silicon Valley start ups and Fortune 500 companies. Our conversation covers: -The similarities and differences of innovation in start ups and large corporates. -The use of Agile and Scrum techniques to deliver innovation. -The importance of learning quickly, iteratively and across functional expertise. In innovation the fastest learner is more likely to succeed. -Not only do you need the ability to come up with the initial idea novel idea but you also need to have the infrastructure to commercialise it and to continue to develop it once launched. You can get a deeper view on Chris' thinking here. Chris provides introductory videos to both Agile and Scrum on his website here. (Apologies for the clunky start and end -- amongst my first recordings!) This is part of a series of interviews about innovation for sustainability conducted for the UCL Institute for Sustainable Resources, as a contribution to a module in this Masters. You can find out more about these interviews, and the module, here.